Wow, Republicans should be proud with their "values" and all. I

[frankly_fedup2]

mean if anyone that works for Bush screws anything up, they get promoted and some even got metals. No one ever takes responsibility for any screw ups. I think Bush (after flying over LA 8 times) finally stated he was responsible for the screw up. Finally some improvement; however, where did all the money go? Red Cross seems to have allocated it differently again. They say that anyway.

Now, you can be an illegal alien and come into this country, get a job, a social security number, and a job. Bush says he is not rewarding people breaking the law; however, those that are already over here working (approximately 11 million) will be given a 5-year guest-worker card. They can now bring their families over as well. Bush claims they do the jobs American's won't do. Well to that I say, George Bush is an idiot. They do construction work, road work, they just don't pick fruit. They are welders, drivers (truck transport). . .just to name a few. They may be illegal but they will give fake birth certificates and social security numbers. They will be given the jobs first too because their employers will pay them as little as possible. Even some of our high-tech jobs are being sent to India, Pakistan, Honduras. Our manufacturing companies have moved out of the country, and China has purchased IBM. Oddly enough, IBM supplies our government with all of its computers. Even our Pentagon.

If this goes into law, does this mean that the employers will pay at least minimum wage? No welder is going to work for $5.70? or brick layer. They average near $20 an hour. However, if the guest worker will take the job with no benefits and low pay, who is still coming out ahead. They will even take the jobs at McDonalds (which is all we are going to have left). Even

Bush outsourced a lot of no-bid contracts for our military. They've robbed our government and military blind but you never hear anymore about it. Bush took us into an illegal war over false pretenses. Bush now wants to allow illegal aliens to stay in this country so they can do the jobs that "Americans" won't do. Also, will this include all aliens? For example, Chinese Aliens, Australian Aliens, Canadian Aliens, European Aliens?

I think Bush in his small brain looks at the hispanic vote he could gain for his party. But will it be worth it? Bush is thinking more tax money, more Social Security Money, etc. If this goes into law, we will have 12 million more people making the same as people from Wal-Mart not only trying to take care of themselves, but now bringing their families over. That means they would qualify for food stamps, Medicaid, heat assistance and possibly rental assistance. Also, when they file their taxes, they would qualify for the EIC. Making minimum wage puts one below the poverty level in this country. That means they would get all of their federal and state tax money back and the Earned Income Credit for each child. So really their Christmas would come around April 15th.

I understand wanting a better life for one's self and one's family. However, what I have been seeing on the TV with the protesting is really getting on my last nerve. The majority of the people protesting appear to be Mexican and are waving Mexican flags and screaming for their rights in this country (HUH?), and demanding for this law to pass, and speaking Spanish, and in broken English, "Viva Mexico".

I think this comment that Lou Dobbs posted on his site tonight fits all of this perfectly. It was a statement made over 100 years ago regarding immigration by Teddy Roosevelt.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/03/27/quote.roosevelt/index.html

(snip)We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language (snip)

Also, if we have 12 million illegal immagrants in this country, we have no background on any of them. How many in their country were rapists, murderers, child molesters, small-crime criminals, gang members? I guess we'll find out over time, unfortunately.

Those out demonstrating are coming out like they are taking our country away from us. Where are the American flags? Why "Viva La Mexico," but no "God Bless America." Why screams demanding their rights in THIS country? Bush is rewarding people for breaking our laws.

Who could have ever imagined all the bad this administration has brought onto and into this country, plus the whole world is against us because the neocons felt that their needed to be a "Christian" in the White House. Well, if Bush, Falwell, and Robertson are what the Religious Right want representing Christ and Christianity around the World, then I want no part of that religion. However, I know real Christians, and because of the ones I know personally, I can see that these people are wolves in sheep's clothing. God Bless America.

[mitchum]

1. Those fake Social Security numbers that they give are often...

the real Social Security numbers of Americans who have already applied for those jobs. Employers will often save those numbers in order to put them down for their cheap labor.

[frankly_fedup2]

7. I wouldn't doubt it for a minute. We had a new lumber company open up a

few years ago. My son worked there during the summer months. He told me there were a lot of hispanic men working there, but he could not understand them. He said they stayed to themselves and never really talked to anyone. He also said the bosses would constantly scream and holler at them like he was threatening them.

You know how whenever a new store, company, etc., starts the first year or two they don't see a profit? Well, the first year this place was opened, it made huge profits and was awarded some kind of business award from the state.

I guess if you get people to work for almost nothing, seven days a week, and who knows if it's 52 weeks a year, your bound to come out ahead.

My son told me that the bosses and he and about five other guys were white. The majority of the workers were (assumed)Mexican.

They say Americans won't do these jobs. Well, my son did the same job as these men did. My son made minimum wage. These other men could have been legal and making minimum wage too; however, my son told me if one of those bosses there screamed at him like he had screamed at some of these men he would have cold cocked him. It was just a summer job for my son but these people worked there all the time. I cannot imagine working in that kind of atmosphere.

[MichiganVote]

2. I think some people assume that immigration (any immigration) comes 1st

and citizenship comes 2nd and if you don't believe that you are somehow a racist, bad, unforgiving or some other weird thing.

[C_U_L8R]

3. Who said their Family Values

apply to any other family... especially non-white and non-christian families.

Frankly... looking at what these hateful shithead reichwingers value.. I wouldn't shed a
tear if the whole lot of em were deported. Don't they have a rapture to go to attend to or something?
Hey freeps .. Jesus is calling... get the Hell outta here !!!

[frankly_fedup2]

8. I'm with you L8R. If the Rapture was coming, they would be "Left Behind."

[madeline_con]

4. " Also, when they file their taxes, ..."

Would you file income tax if you were here illegally? :shrug:

[frankly_fedup2]

6. I was talking about once they are legalized and then their employers

will claim them as a deduction and deduct the wages they paid their workers. If the immigrant workers are considered contract labor and not employees (and we all know the majority of them will not get any benefits so they will be contract labor),they will get a special form they have to send in to the government regarding their taxes (not a 1099 but similar). I use to subcontract work out of my business and had to keep up with this stuff. And no, no one was an illegal alien.

I've helped illegal aliens before whenever they had a question with regards to their newborn's paperwork, due to working at a hospital. They work hard and live in squalor due to their wages. They deserve better . . . just as we do . . . just as everyone does. However, because they are illegal, it's the people that hire them that reap the most benefit and they treat these people anyway they want to. The illegals take it because they don't want to stir up anything.

Basically, it's legalized slavery, just without the physical chains and locks.

What I have heard of this new bill, they have to have been here two years (according to the bill that passed yesterday) already working. That will get them a guest worker card (IF) they pay a fine of $1000 and pass a criminal background check. If all that goes through, they have to agree to work 3-4 more years before they can apply for citizenship. During that period of time, they will have to learn English (if they haven't already)and continue to be working and pay another $1000 fine.

Okay, during this four-year period, our Social Services Departments are going to quadruple because even if their employers are made to pay them at least minimum wage, say a husband and a wife, they will still be living under the poverty level for this country. This would make them eligible for every program anyone else is . . .food stamps, heating, housing, transportation.

I did some of the birth certificates. Even if I knew they were here illegally, it didn't matter. The law now is if they have a child born in the U.S., they are automatic citizens, right? Anyway, when I sent in the birth certificate, it went to vital records in Richmond, VA. Nothing was required to be sent to immigration. I even asked Vital Records in Richmond and they said it wasn't our problem, that was another agency. Ahhhh government bureaucracy . . . gotta love it.

What has set me off is the protests with the Mexican Flag and not American and them screaming they have rights in this country. It's like they are taking over this country and some Hispanic reporter stated they had always controlled Los Angeles anyway.

This is very similar to the Muslim protests in Europe (not about the cartoons but about the poor working conditions and discrimination toward them) That is what the Hispanics are saying about the U.S. Eventually, the Muslims will own Europe. How long before the hispanic/Latina people own the U.S.?

However, now the protests in Europe have to do with students, teachers. The government wants to make France's rigid labor laws more flexible in a bid to boost economic growth and cut unemployment in a world characterized by increasing globalization of markets. A lot of the French people reject this plan by their government and claim it is their "social rights" and that they have every right to protest what the government is trying to do.

Our illegals may have been here 40+ years and worked; however, I'm like you, when have they paid taxes? If they claim they are as much American as any of us, then why are they carrying a flag from another country. Yes, they're proud of their culture. I'm proud of mine as well; however, I don't put out a flag from Ireland in support of our troops or this country.

Also, what about the Asians, Europeans, Africans, Cubans, Haitians? Is this going to apply to them as well. It would have to, right?

I read something about how immigration is like playing the lottery as far as getting into this country "legally." It's very hard to do so legally and keeps families separated for years.

This looks to me like another "mess" Bush is getting started before he leaves office. Is he bored? Somebody buy him a new ball or something.

{franticly looking around the house for a Tylenol, Bayer, or Lortab} Major headache today. HA! found the Lortab. :-)

[Flirtus]

5. There are some who have been here 15 and 20 years

with Real social security numbers and real birth certificates. They have been working and paying taxes into a retirement system they will never draw from. They have all kinds of jobs in hospitality like waiters and bartenders, in personal services like hairdressers and childcare, JUST LIKE WHITE FOLK, because they have whole communities they work in and support. And they are overwhelmingly religious. And their kids have gone to school and played ball and don't think this country isn't their home. Your lack of understanding makes me question your source of information. The ones that the TV cameras turn to are always the best sound bite.

Not that it matters that much: I'm a southern white girl, raised in private schools, have a post graduate degree, serve on the Vestry at my church, have been employed for over 30 years. But I never got a metal.

[frankly_fedup2]

9. Well, I haven't heard that term "WHITE FOLK" used in a long time. Are you

accusing me of being racist? Sincerely, are you? Cause I'm a southern white girl, raised in public schools, have a BS, and go to church but not every Sunday. I have worked for a little over 30 years myself. I had my own business at one time (too much stress), no one gave me a medal either. My dad has some since he was a WWII Veteran.

One thing that really stands out in your post and that was the part where you said there were immigrants with "real birth certificates." If they have a U.S. birth certificate, then they are not an illegal immigrant. Surely you didn't assume I was talking about any foriegn person that came into this country legally? I'm talking about the ones that have broke the law and are still here. Anyone that comes to this country legally from ANYWHERE, they don't even have to be ("WHITE FOLK" like you said), go to school, pay for that education, work, make a success of themselves, then they have made the American Dream come true and that is what America is all about. Then if they want to apply for citizenship here rather then keep their citizenship from the country they came from, they have earned that right ten fold.

Why you went into all of this is unclear to me, unless the above is what you are implying, which is absolutely ridiculous. Believe what you will, think what you wish, because you have obviously pegged me to be something I'm not.

What is making me so angry, Flirtus, is this bill is not going to pass through the house. It's not going to happen. Illegal immigrants filling the streets and carrying flags from other countries, screaming into the cameras for their rights, and then some praising Mexico. Why aren't these people being arrested and checked out to see if they are here legally? If they want to be legal citizens, wouldn't it come across better for the media sound bites if they carried the flag of this country since they feel the need to come out and demand things? It just does not make any sense.

Like I said, it's as if Bush got bored and thought he would stir something else up. Somebody needs to get him a new chainsaw or something to occupy his time.