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Did you see Michael Mandelbaum on The Daily Show tonight?

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Up2Late Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 03:07 AM
Original message
Did you see Michael Mandelbaum on The Daily Show tonight?
So is this one of the new way the "Intellectual Republicans" are going to try to spin the new American Imperialism? This is the first time I've heard this guy, but it sounded like BS to me.

BUT, it gave me an new Idea, one that will DESTROY another leg of the already wobbly step stool that is the Republican Party.

WHAT IF... we begin pushing one of the key points of this guys book? The point which IS true, but I doubt too many "Red State" Americans realize, that the U.S. Tax payer, through the use of the U.S. Navy, pays almost ALL the costs of policing the world's Oceans and Sea lanes?

Here's a little known fact, now that the "threat" of the Soviet Unions Navy is gone, most of the world's nations, if they have one at all, only have small coastal or "brown water" Navies, that they use to patrol their own coastal waters! While we, the U.S.A. have 10 (soon to be 11) active duty Aircraft Carrier's (and all the smaller ships that travel with it in it's "Battle group"}, policing the world's Sea Lanes to keep them safe for Merchant Ships and world trade.

I might be hard to think all the way back to the 1990's, but one thing the ReThugs used to say (while President Clinton was in charge) was that we shouldn't have to be the "World's Police force," but that IS what we are now.

I think, if we could start reminding the "Red State" sheep about all the reasons that they were told they should vote Republican, back in the 90's by the Republicans, remind them of issues like this "World Police" thing, I think we could flip a LOT of the independents to our side. What do you think?

Below is most of the NY Times Book review of the book I'm talking about:


<http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/05/books/review/05walker.html?ex=1299214800&en=5e00ad19848a3221&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss>

"The Case for Goliath," by Michael Mandelbaum
American World Order

Article Tools Sponsored By
Review by MARTIN WALKER
Published: March 5, 2006

MICHAEL MANDELBAUM has taken all the fun out of an ostensibly flippant but fundamentally serious diplomatic parlor game. Usually played late at night when the Americans have gone home to prepare for their puritanically early start to the day, the Europeans, Latin Americans and Asians take a second glass of Cognac and imagine how awful the world could be if someone else were to take the place of the United States as the global hegemon.

Eastern Europeans tell sad anecdotes about living under Russian dominance. Western Europeans shudder at the thought of Germans running the benign and virtual empire that the United States has maintained and expanded for the past 60 years. (And they murmur that within the European Union the French are already being difficult enough.) The Latin Americans have their hands full with the arrogance of next-door neighbors like Brazil without wanting to see it become even more dominant. The idea of a Chinese hegemony sends shivers down the backs of all, particularly the Japanese and Indians; somebody usually mentions the mournful example of Tibet. The Pakistanis, Sri Lankans and Bangladeshis react equally unhappily to the idea of India as superpower. As the diplomats prattle on, meanwhile, the British smile wryly and say they have been there, done that and are extremely glad to have lost the T-shirt.

Mandelbaum, the Christian A. Herter professor of American foreign policy at the Johns Hopkins University School of Advanced International Studies, pulls aside the curtain of diplomatic civility to expose the crude and obvious reality that everyone prefers to ignore, at least in public. He explains coolly and clearly the various ways in which the United States now functions as a global government, offering the planet the services of physical security, commercial regulation, financial stability and legal recourse that are normally provided by national governments to their citizens. Non-Americans naturally do not like to admit this, even as they enjoy the results, and American leaders do not like to spell it out, least of all to the voters who pay for it. But the evidence is clear. The network of military alliances (like NATO) and trade pacts (like the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade) and international organizations (like the United Nations and World Bank and Group of 8) that the United States was mainly responsible for bringing to life has become an American-led global management system. It is familiar, inclusive and fairly unobtrusive. Its institutions provide a reasonable role for lesser powers, which is why the NATO alliance of consent survived and expanded while the wretched conscripts of the Warsaw Pact rebelled.

Above all, this system has been a remarkable and seductive economic success. Having built the tripartite trading structure of the modern world (North America, Western Europe and Japan) to enrich its citizens and allies and sustain the cold war, the generous Americans have expanded it to include the Asian tigers and Eastern Europeans. Now 1.3 billion Chinese and 1.1 billion Indians are clambering up the food chain to prosperity. They deal in dollars, raise money in the New York and London financial markets, generate big trade surpluses with the United States and then send their brighter and most ambitious children to American graduate and business schools, where they are exposed to the creeping osmosis of the Western value system. This is a magnificently benign loop, and will continue to be so once those American-trained graduates figure out how the biosphere is going to handle tens of millions of Asians living the American lifestyle, with their own cars and air conditioning and fast food....


(more at link below)
<http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/05/books/review/05walker.html?ex=1299214800&en=5e00ad19848a3221&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss>
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 03:49 AM
Response to Original message
1. Neocons are aggressive isolationists. Conservatives isolationists.
Liberals are not isolationists. Though some are for humanitarian war. Why would we start to push for isolationism?
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Up2Late Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 04:12 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. I wouldn't be pushing for isolationism, it would be...
...pushing a reality check, and reminding them of all the lies they were told back before the True "Bush Agenda" was made clear to all.

Maybe you don't remember the way the Republicans repeated these words like a mantra, back when Clinton was President, but I do, and so will the the Lemmings of the center right.

It's like hypnotic recall, it will snap back into their easily manipulated brains, as it should.
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Kber Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. Both NeoCons and Conservatives fear the world outside our borders
Conservatives respond by trying to close down and isolate themselves.

NewCons respond by trying to conquere and assimilate the rest of the world.

Liberals don't have the knee-jerk fear reaction which makes us better at assessing and responding to real dangers (think Al Queda during Clinton) and make and use real allies.

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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Exactly. Only people who know evil people or have run across them
Edited on Fri Mar-24-06 04:25 PM by applegrove
are so afraid. Conservatives need to look at their own dam souls. The world is not as useless as they think. It is capable of amazing solutions and tremendous feats. They need to trust a little more. Trust humanity. Trust that people can get together and come up with great solutions.

I think on the whole - the people who neocons do not trust are Americans. They don't trust the American Public Good.
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medeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 05:03 AM
Response to Original message
3. Stewart has had some strange guests this week n/t
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 08:16 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. true... I wonder what's going on..
I'm not sure why they wanted that Iraqi General.

I thought he got a few good digs in at the FAUX analyst (although he didn't seems to realize it. . .or he KNEW he was full of BS)

I'd love to know the thinking behind this week's guests.
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Up2Late Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. I think what happens is, most of the time The Daily Show books guests...
...that they want, but I'm sure RW Washington Lobbying groups are always screaming for "equal time" and "fair and balanced" so, most likely, The Daily Show picks some of the really wacky and easy to ridicule wing-nuts, interviews them in the Daily Show "style," and then hold on to these until they have a slow week, or rather lame show. Their interviews aren't "live."

It's like on The Colbert Report, the last few guests have been from Fox "news," (the guy last night said his book doesn't come out until May), but a week or so before, they had Barbara Boxer, Ariana Huffington, etc.

I'm sure they just try to make the best of the turds that float down from the Viacom Corporation's toilet.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 05:19 AM
Response to Original message
4. oil cops
Kerry brought this up a couple of times last year, that more and more our military protects pipelines and shipping lanes, for oil. I definitely think it's something we should be pushing, our tax dollars providing security for subsidized oil companies making record profits in the billions.
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ClintonTyree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 07:01 AM
Response to Original message
5. Those carriers main mission is not to keep shipping lanes open..
it's to be dispersed in a way that at any given moment these carriers are available to support any military action the CIC finds necessary. Let's face it, America is now the world's only superpower and this has gone to the Pentagon's head. They view the world as theirs, a possession that must be protected from anyone else. We're the neighborhood bully and the Pentagon means to keep it that way no matter what the cost to the American taxpayer. When was the last time the Pentagon's budget was cut, or even frozen for that matter? There's always money in the American coffers for war.
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Up2Late Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. Sorry, what's CIC? Is that similar to the MIC?
MIC = (Military Industrial Complex). Which is another one of the reasons we have such a massive military, it's a gigantic jobs program for the paranoid RW's.

But, I don't agree, because if there is one good reason to have a gigantic Navy, like we have, it's to protect the our ships (and the ships bringing the finished goods to our country) in international waters.

Just imagine for a minute what would happen if we suddenly announced to the world that we are going to dock all our Navy ships until the next major war, what would happen? Pirates would come out of the woodwork, and practically nothing would make it to our ports, because all of the poor countries around the globe would see our merchant ships, loaded with stuff they don't have, as giant, unguarded, floating shopping malls.

Think about it. In today's world, when every one hates our Government, if we had no Navy to protect our merchant ships, and those bringing the stuff here that keep our economy going, we'd be dead in 3 to 6 months.

The guy has his facts right, it's the way he interprets them that is so twisted and wrong.
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ellie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 08:32 AM
Response to Original message
7. I had to leave the room
as I couldn't take any more propaganda. Ah yes, America, the benevolent dictator. Ruling with an iron fist hidden under the velvet glove of democracy.
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warrior1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. the audience
were laughing at his ridiculous ideas and Jon was being nice and tried to make he comfortable. When laughed at him, Jon was explaining something real fast and after wiped his brow and went "whew".

This guy has an idea of making the US government (neo-con's) ideas sound good, but everyone knew it was wrong.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-24-06 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
10. I turned it off
it was horse shit
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