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ProfessorPlum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 12:55 PM
Original message
Just talked to a friend of mine
one of my old college professors, actually. She is a really bright lady and civic-minded, and when I saw her she was trying to get candidate info from the League of Women Voters' website.

She said Kerry's positions were very poorly represented there, with a lot of "no comments" on issues (like the environment!) where Kerry is strong - so that's a hint to Kerry's campaign - get some info on the LWV website!

I pointed her to a couple of other websites for candidate shopping, then she asked me about my Dean button and why I liked Dean.

I said, "You know how Democrats just lay down and let the media walk all over them and the media lies about everything and frames the debate and they just take it? Dean is the first and best fighter I have ever seen come down the Democratic pike. He really knows how to frame the debate and take the issues to Bush."

She said, "That's why I don't think he would win."

As Bartcop says, "Why am I in this party of wimps?" Why won't somebody fight for us, or at least stand up for someone who is willing to fight for us?

Oy.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
1. That's a myth I don't buy. Dean DID let them frame the debate.
Edited on Mon Feb-02-04 01:11 PM by blm
He knee jerk reacted with the worst of them.

He heard criticism about middle class taxcuts, so he backtracks and now says he'll offer new middle class taxcuts after he repeals all of them.

He heard criticism about his Israel-Palestine "evenhanded" remarks and later retracts them.

He heard criticism of his support for guns and then comes out FOR the Brady bill and FOR the assault weapons ban that he previously opposed as the NRA candidate.

He heard criticism of his wife not campaigning and the next thing you know, she joins him on the trail.

He's criticized for his secularism and the next thing you know, he's talking about Jeezus.

He's criticized as being angry and over the top and he tones it down the next day.

Give me a break. Others framed the debate every step of the way.

No myth can win the presidency unless there's an R after their name.
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NewHampster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
2. You realize Dean began to slip on 12/1/03
After telling Chris Matthews he would break up the giant media enterprises. They couldn't have that and taught Dean and all of us a lesson. Governor Dean is an incredible fighter that should have saved some of the fight until after he had the ring.

"MATTHEWS: Are you going to break up the giant media enterprises in this country?

DEAN: Yes, we’re going to break up giant media enterprises. That doesn’t mean we’re going to break up all of GE."

at this URL http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3607157/




Sad but True and I personally am weeping for our so called democracy.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Look back to last June when Kerry released THIS statement....
Dean then somehow ended up with a press plane shortly after this statement of Kerry's and two national covers in July.

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
June 2, 2003


Kerry Seeks to Reverse FCC's "Wrongheaded Vote"
Commission decision may violate laws protecting small businesses; Kerry to file Resolution of Disapproval

Washington, DC - Senator John Kerry today announced plans to file a "Resolution of Disapproval" as a means to overturn today's decision by the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) to raise media ownership caps and loosen various media cross-ownership rules.

Kerry will soon introduce the resolution seeking to reverse this action under the Congressional Review Act and Small Business Regulatory Enforcement Fairness Act on the grounds that the decision may violate the laws intended to protect America's small businesses and allow them an opportunity to compete.

As Ranking Member of the Senate Committee on Small Business and Entrepreneurship, Kerry expressed concern that the FCC's decision will hurt localism, reduce diversity, and will allow media monopolies to flourish. This raises significant concerns about the potential negative impacts the decision will have on small businesses and their ability to compete in today's media marketplace.

In a statement released earlier today regarding the FCC's decision, Kerry said:

"Nothing is more important in a democracy than public access to debates and information, which lift up our discourse and give Americans an opportunity to make honest informed choices. Today's wrongheaded vote by the Republican members of the FCC to loosen media ownership rules shows a dangerous indifference to the consolidation of power in the hands of a few large entities rather than promoting diversity and independence at the local level. The FCC should do more than rubber stamp the business plans of narrow economic interests.

"Today's vote is a complete dereliction of duty. The Commissioners are well aware that these rules greatly influence the competitive structure of the industry and protect the public's access to multiple sources of information and media. It is the Commission's responsibility to ensure that the rules serve our national goals of diversity, competition, and localism in media. With today's vote, they shirked that responsibility and have dismissed any serious discussion about the impact of media consolidation on our own democracy."
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NewHampster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. So Kerry got taken down first
Edited on Mon Feb-02-04 01:28 PM by NewHampster
Then Dean went even further and maybe Kerry made a deal to get out of the dog house.

Whatever. Our Dean group was trying to figure out what happened 1 month before Iowa to cause Deans media slide. We came up with Saddam being caught and now this.

edit:added word group
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On the Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. That Never Occurred to Me
It is very possible that top media execs became very worried by that "gaffe". ;)

From there on down, the shadow of the leader is all you need to build the story.
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ProfessorPlum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. If Dean can't survive some media smearing,
then he wouldn't do well against W. Despite everyone declaring his demise, he seems to be doing pretty well still. Will see what happens in a month or two.

Remember that Dean is a big boy - he surely knows that the media will have their knives out, and has strategies to deal with that - in fact, that is what makes him a wiser candidate in my eyes than others whose media strategy seems to be to wag their tails and rollover when the media get tough with them.
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isbister Donating Member (902 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-02-04 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. No, that's wrong
Newsweek Poll after 12/18-19
CNN/USA Today/Gallup has him slipping after 12/11-14
NBC News/Wall Street Journal after 12/13
CBS News/New York Times Poll after 12/14-16/03
and an Associated Press poll has him at 30% on 12/18-21

An ABC News/Washington Post Poll has him at 31% on 1/5-7/04, having climbed from 20% in their 12/10-14 poll

http://www.pollingreport.com/wh04dem.htm
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