Are you a Kucinich first kind of person who will vote for Kerry?

[Jerseycoa]

I've noticed recently a number of Kucinich people seem to be coming around to Kerry. I am curious as to how it worked for you, what the argument was you had in your head that convinced you. I'm not implying you shouldn't, but wondering how support for Kucinich translates into support for Kerry. Thanks.

[Andy_Stephenson]

1. I cannot in good concience

ever vote for Kerry, and will not. If he is the nominee...I will not be touching the screen for president when I vote.

[blm]

5. Broken promise.

Sorry, Kerry is too liberal for you.

Sorry that Kerry was the first Senator to advocate for gays. Sorry that he wrote the Hate Crimes bill.

Sorry he stood against DOMA and called it gaybashing by Congress.

Sorry that you will punish the lawmaker who stood up for you and yours when not too many cared to join him.

Sorry that you will send a signal to the nation that Senators who stand up for gays will be punished, no matter what.

Just grand.

[camero]

46. Kerry also

Voted to go to war in Iraq. I can't in good conscience vote for him in the primary but probably will if he is the nominee. :(

[Althion]

58. That doesn't seem quite fair to me

You're suggesting that because he is apparently gay, that he should support Kerry no matter what, or that his gayness should override every other consideration he might have?


Conversely, should one's heterosexuality override every other consideration someone might have about candidates?

Your argument just doesn't seem quite right to me. In fact, I find the argument offensive. Am I alone on that?

[blm]

66. Gbnc and I talk straight to each other. No fluff needed or wanted.

And no, he shouldn't support Kerry no matter what. If Kerry never lifted a finger to bring about positive change in this country that effected you personally, then don't vote for him. However, if he is the Dem nominee, then those who have benefitted positively from his initiatives over the years, do owe him support, especially over Bush.

[bobthedrummer]

6. Wow, Andy.

I have strong anti-Clark feelings, the worst kind yet I will be voting for the Democratic candidate regardless.

I'm voting for Dennis Kucinich for President {and Russ Feingold for Senator} February 17th in Wisconsin though.

Is it the secret society thing or class warfare?

What would take your vote away so completely, Andy?

[Monte Carlo]

10. Then thanks for sitting out on the big fight.

I hope your conscience will comfort you should Bush win another 4 years.

[Monte Carlo]

2. IMHO, ideologically, Kerry comes closest to Kucinich...

... among Presidential candidates, anyway. Sure, they have their significant differences, but in a perfect world, I'd back Kucinich instead of Kerry.

[gate of the sun]

53. in some dreamland

maybe but not the way I see it.......I will not put my vote to Kerry.....

[twilight]

3. what I'd like to know is this

Why is everyone so damn worried about who Kucinich supporters will vote for?

I think that Dennis Kucinich has already said he supports his friend John Edwards *duh*.

However, until Kucinich's name no longer appears on the ballot, I am not voting for Kerry, Dean, Clark, or anyone else.



:dem: :kick:

[NashVegas]

17. Because Kucinich Supporters, Too

Must take the loyalty oath.

Fun, isn't it?

[GreenArrow]

20. Here's one DK supporter who will not be voting for Edwards

For one, I'll be real surprised if he gets the nomination. And if Dk likes him, that's between him and DK. In an ABB scenario I might vote for Edwards, but I just as easily might vote third party. I would certainly, while holding my nose, be more inclined to support Kerry, Dean or Clark.

[Jerseycoa]

22. Not worried, just curious

There have been two things that left me wondering in this race. The first was how the hell did Gephardt lose Iowa? The second was this. I have no illusions about winning votes for my guy. I know how Kucinich supporters, with a few exceptions, feel about him. I accept their judgment. Nobody can point to me ever having tried to sell Kuchinich supporters on anything. It really is simple curiosity. If you don't want to explain, no problem, but I can ask.

[justinpower]

31. Did DK really

want his supporters to back Edwards, or was he dealing to try to get more delegates? I know they are freindly with each other, but I fail to see where they are similar politically. Edwards seems kind of conservative to me, what am I missing here?

[MMT]

36. You're not missing anything, I don't think

Edwards is another Carter: very conservative. The alleged "vote for Edwards" is just confusion left over from Iowa.

[Iverson]

4. a Green who will strongly consider Kucinich

Candidates who favor or pander to war (or blank checks for war), the USAPATRIOT Act, economic globalization, erasure of the modest social safety net, media concentration, bankruptcy "reform," welfare "reform," and generally the far right agenda have a political interest opposed to mine.

[displacedtexan]

7. Kerry is almost as liberal as DK.

Not quite, but almost. And Kerry appeals to enough of the national demographic that we dems could actually take back the White House this year and the Congress next time.
The rest of the Dem candidates are too conservative for me.

DK is too vulnerable to * attacks. So I researched the candidates and was shocked to learn how liberal JK was.

[mountebank]

29. Almost as liberal, but much more authoritarian.

A Kerry presidency would not mean more empowerment of U.S. citizens. He's probably only slightly LESS authoritarian than Bush - and depressingly more than Kucinich.

[gate of the sun]

54. Tell it like it is

mountebank.......

[justinpower]

35. How is DK so vulnerable

do you have some dirt on him. It seems to me he is one of the only candidates who is honest and doesnt have a background that will bite him in the ass

[MMT]

39. Kerry WAS, maybe, but he's not these days.

He sold his soul to the DLC.

[blm]

67. No. He ws on the left pulling against those in the DLC pulling right.

Like Dean and Zell Miller.

Thankfully, Dems like Kerry were there for balance or the DLC would have been an energy deregulating group just like corporatist Dean wanted.

[Rainbowreflect]

8. I will vote for the dem nominee, period.

I have shown support for Kerry lately because of the vicious attacks on DU in the last week or so. I also came out in support of Dean when the attacks were so bad against him while he was the front runner.
I will admit I have not come to Joe's defense, but would still vote for him against bush.

[rucky]

9. I will support the nominee

But to answer your question, look at Kerry's lifetime voting record. These past two years have been really strange, but I can't blame the mere mortals for not having the courage and/or insight to stand up to Bush as early & consistently as Kucinich has.

[Jerseycoa]

25. Very true

"mere mortals"

[jean]

11. Who will Kucinich support when he withdraws?

[revcarol]

13. DK's in it for the long haul.

No, this Kucinich person wouldn't have Kerry as a second choice!

...or a third choice

...of a fourth choice

Let's see. How many candidates are still in the race?

[bobthedrummer]

15. DK will be in to the end

I would think.

[LWolf]

68. He won't withdraw.

He has said so repeatedly.

I believe he will support the nominee, whoever that may be, after the convention.

[Red_Storm]

12. I hope there aren't too many.......

really sad if true..............

[greendog]

14. I won't vote for Kerry....

He supports the Class War against poor and middle class Americans. He voted for NAFTA, GATT, and Welfare Reform.

[Red_Storm]

16. also voted for the Patriot ACT

[GreenArrow]

59. "He supports the Class War"

He isn't the only one. So does Dean, so does Lieberman, so does Edwards...they all do, in varying degrees. We all know Bush does, but who would you really rather have prosecuting the class war; Bush, or any of the corporate Democratic candidates? Kucinich and Sharpton are the only ones who even publicly recognize the existence of a class war.

[Forkboy]

18. DK guy here NOT coming around

[Dhalgren]

19. I support Dennis Kucinich 1000%.

No Democratic candidate can or will win in Nov. We have to come to grips with this. But my vote has always been ideological and class oriented - therefore, Kucinich.

[bread_and_roses]

21. Yes, if you are talking GE

I am not even a Dem, so have no primary vote. I almost regret not being Dem for the first time in years, because it means I will not have an opportunity to cast a vote for DK in the Primary, whether that vote would be "meaningful" by the time the NY primary rolls around or not.

Of the remaining candidates, I can "live with" Kerry, though I have been deeply disappointed by his votes on Welfare, PA, IRW...but his overall record is better than the other candidates. And he was a Vietnam Vet against the war, that counts for a lot with me. I may be reasoning based on history rather than current events, but I am hopeful that if he achieves the Presidency Kerry will return to his roots in politics, so to speak. But I think we will need to hold his feet to the fire on progressive issues.

Should Kerry be the nominee and eventual winner, I think it is critical that he know that he owes something to Progressives, the anti-war movement, the grass roots exemplified by the Dean and Kucinich campaigns. This goes for whomever wins the nomination...the best way we can make the candidate answerable to us as President is to turn people out in such overwhelming numbers that he will have a crushing victory AND know to whom he owes it. The Dem party has not shown in the last few elections that they can achieve that kind of turnout. Grassroots can. If we do that, we have some clout.

This is why I am so disturbed by so many saying "my guy or the highway." Not one of the other candidates has DK's credentials on the Iraq War, the Patriot Act, NAFTA, globalization, etc. (Which is why the support for Dean has always puzzled me...he's not even DK light, yet those are the issues that he is trumpeted for?)

Politicians are beholden to money, yes, but in the end, it is the number of votes that keeps them in office or sends them home. Turn out huge numbers for the Dem nominee, and he will know that to get that turnout for a second term he has to deliver to those who delivered the votes. Until we have genuine campaign finance reform, that is the only antidote to special interests.

Allow a squeaker win and a Dem president will list to the "center" which these days is the right. He will see no choice.

We need a crushing win,we need it based on grass roots work so the nominee owes huge #s of votes to that grass roots. For that, we need every soul who cares out there - anti-war, Labor, environment, advocates for the poor, Civil Rights activists, everyone - door to door, phones, money, whatever you can do.

[Jerseycoa]

23. Thanks

That was the kind of thing I was looking for, how you worked it out in your own head.

Excellent point here:

"Should Kerry be the nominee and eventual winner, I think it is critical that he know that he owes something to Progressives, the anti-war movement, the grass roots exemplified by the Dean and Kucinich campaigns. This goes for whomever wins the nomination...the best way we can make the candidate answerable to us as President is to turn people out in such overwhelming numbers that he will have a crushing victory AND know to whom he owes it."

That Al Sharpton makes, as well.

[revcarol]

28. What makes you think that Kerry would be beholden to progressives,

even if they voted him in overwhelmingly?

Won't repeal WTO, and NAFTA. Loves GATT.
Same-o Clinton-type foreign policy, NOT dealing with any issues that make American hated and make us less safe.

After all, blacks have voted overwhelmingly for Democrats over the years, and we've managed to ignore their issues.

the only way to get a progressive voice is to elect a progressive.

[bread_and_roses]

37. It's about who gets out the vote

...and why. They know who does the work for them, and why. They have to, their survival at the polls depends on knowing. This is why an overwhelming victory owed to progressives GOTV would make Kerry, or whomever, "answerable" to progressive interests. Particularly in a first term, with a re-election to look to. The traditional Dem party structure has not shown much ability to motivate and get out a large majority. We could do that, and it would give progressive interests power.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

57. Both very thoughtful posts..I am the other way around

I am FOR Kerry to win the nomination realistically over Kucinich but I am voting for Kucinich in the primary as he has pledged to organize the progressive movement beyond this election and that is the best way I can see of making my vote count for something.

[JohnOneillsMemory]

62. Same here. DK in primary, JFK for general election. Vietnam repeats.

Kucinich has all the positions I support. But I can accept Kerry if only because of the way his Vietnam Vets Against the War activities can work for him with the Iraq War issue.

Once those thousands of troops get rotated home, look out. There won't be enough ribbons and parades to cover up their outrage. Many of them have post-traumatic stress disorder. It won't be pretty.

The public will be looking hard at the war again, not mostly domestic issues as they are now. And Kerry will be able to deal with that by saying he was lied to just as our troops were about what was happening.

Apocalypse Now and Then. Timing: The movie with Robert McNamera reflecting on the Vietnam War (The Fog of War) is playing in theaters now. See it.

I do hope that Kerry can step back from supporting the corporateers. I'll accept the halting of high-speed mass murder and hope for the halting of economic and ecological murder in the near future.

[Jerseycoa]

41. I don't necessarily

But I see Sharpton's plan for taking his constituency's concerns as far as the convention, if combined with Kucinich taking progressive concerns as far as the convention, and Dean taking his followers' concerns as far as the convention -- these are articulated intentions of all three candidates -- if this trend holds, it's a pretty large bloc, hypothetically speaking.

[genius]

24. AS a Kucinich person, I will support Kerry in the GE if he gets the

nomination. You'll find that most Kucinich people are hoping that, if Dennis doesn't get the nomination, it goes to anyone but Dean.

[Jerseycoa]

27. That's interesting

Is that because of Dean maintaining he was the only anti-war candidate? Or based on his centrism?

[Terwilliger]

30. he just said

"anyone but Dean"

[Jerseycoa]

33. Yes, Dean nt

[MuseRider]

47. With you all the way.

I will vote for anyone who gets the nom and pound away at them to govern more progressively. Dean, it will KILL me to have to vote for him, seems to be the least likely to listen or care what anyone else thinks. He has certainly proven to me that he will be untruthful to win, he will stop at nothing and as for his people power, well, I don't hear him listening to anybody but himself. He is in this for Dean and will become and put forth just about anything it takes to win. I will support him but anyone else, including Joe who is at least honest with us, will get my vote with a smile and a letter to influence the platform.

[mountebank]

26. Kerry may be liberal, but....

You also have to consider the OTHER axis of the political spectrum - that being the authoritarian v. libertarian axis. John Kerry would not represent a significant change in this respect. He is authoritarian, though not in the jack-booted thug sense of John Ashcroft. Plain and simple, voting Kerry means voting away your power, an escape from freedom, in the words of Erich Fromm. And I believe it is motivated by a fear of George W. Bush. Voting based on fear always results in a ceding of power. Under Kerry, real people would no more control the political scene as they do under Bush - I really believe that - but of course it will be run with a more liberal slant, which would be nice.

As a Kucinich supporter, I would vote for Kerry as the lesser of two evils, because that's the unfortunate system we have.

Kerry's support is based on "electability." To me, that translates directly to "based on fear."

[JohnOneillsMemory]

63. Voting "based on fear" is a healthy fear. Of Bush fascist boots on necks

forever. The idea of Bush winning and using that as a mandate for pre-emptive wars, destroying the environment, emptying the treasury for good to kill 'the nanny state,' create a police state etc.

MUST ABSOLUTELY NOT HAPPEN. WE MIGHT NOT EVER RECOVER. LAST CHANCE IN 2004 TO SAVE THE WORLD.

[justinpower]

32. Well

I will vote DK in my primary. Once the democratic cadidate is selected i will research them further and decide how i want to vote.

[RichM]

34. No, I'm more of a Kucinich-first/Kerry-NEVER kind of person.

It's impossible for me to imagine how a real DK supporter could ever bring him/herself to support a pandering 2-faced voice of the Establishment like Kerry. Dennis' campaign is based on understanding that the Iraq war is not only a criminal enterprise, but also a death knell for the possibility of progressive change domestically. Kerry's campaign, on the other hand, is based on obscuring the fact that he voted for this war himself, & on constantly presenting himself as a "war hero" (eagerly capitulating to the base instincts of the militarists among us).

To call Kerry a 2-faced hypocrite is an insult to hypocrites. The facts that he was a Vietnam protestor in his younger days, & that he was knowledgeable about US crimes in Central America in the '80's - make it DOUBLY outrageous that he has not championed the antiwar cause in the case of Iraq. His recent attacks on Dean were filthy and contemptible (& this is coming from someone who doesn't particularly care for Dean).

Dennis's campaign has nothing to do with him personally, & everything to do with the ideas he represents. Kerry's campaign, OTOH, shows there is no principle he won't happily sell out, in his opportunistic drive to fulfill personal ambition.

[MMT]

38. I could have voted for the old Kerry, probably, but not the DLC one

If he somehow convinced me that his recent behavior was due to drugs or something, then maybe I could. But I'm done holding my nose. If we get Bush again, well, that'll show how bad a mistake it was not to put forward a better-quality Democrat.

[GreenPartyVoter]

40. I'm ABB. Like Dennis most but

will still vote Dem even if I don't particularly like the candidate.

[Desertrose]

42. NO...Kucinch is my one & only ......

I doubt I'll ever come around to Kerry.....

actually...not sure who ....Edwards maybe....BUT....
:shrug:

Peace
DR

[GreenArrow]

60. Why Edwards, DR?

Is it his stand on the drug war?

Is it his IWR vote?

His support of the death penalty?

His championing of the environment?

His insistence that Dubya and Co. did not eggagerate the War on Terror (TM)?

I just don't get the support for this guy. It must be the hair. He's no better than Kerry, IMO, and possibly worse, since he hides his corporatism behind phoney populist rhetoric and a toothy grin.

[goodhue]

43. I will vote DK in primary

And vote for the democratic nominee in GE.
If Kerry is the nominee I will gladly vote for him.
He is liberal with a strong record on environmental protection.
He is the only candidate to talk explicitly about MTBE in ground water and holding the oil conglomerates accountable.
He has a much better record than Dean and Clark when it comes to progressive issues I care about.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

44. Kucinich was my first "ideal" choice.

So, I guess that qualifies me to say, No, I won't vote for Kerry (or, Edwards,or Lieberman).

[plurality]

45. nope

I don't vote for hypocrites, and Kerry ain't sheddin' that label any time soon.

[GreenArrow]

61. "I don't vote for hypocrites"

Then which one will you vote for, since all the major players could be legitimately accused of hypocrisy?

[Kanary]

48. Kerry? Why would I vote for someone who would let me die?

Dennis is the only one who I KNOW would do everything he could to assure my survival.

Kerry, Dean, et al would continue the right wing cuts against disability etc, and any more cuts and a whole lot of us won't survive.

I really don't hear that mattering to most of you. That's what discourages me so much.

Are any of you going to hold your other candidates feet to the fire, and keep strongly letting them know you don't want any more cuts to the safety net?

I didn't think so.

Kanary

[eridani]

49. Never in the primary

Nor for anyone else until the national convention.

[iowapeacechief]

50. I am Kucinich first, but didn't just recently "come around"...

...for Kerry. I've always liked him.

Until IWR, I assumed I would support him. After Dennis entered the race, I had to support HIM--for my causes, he's without comparison! But I always hoped Kerry would get it together for a strong run. I tried to like Dean but saw more integrity in Kerry's principled if wrong yes on IWR than in Dean's too-convenient discovery he could be popular as the antiwar candidate. If we hadn't had Dennis, Dean might have been more attractive. Still, watching Dean and Kerry as my possible second choices, I was drawn back to Kerry.

So, here's to Dennis Kucinich--all the way! Go Dennis go!

And here's to John Kerry--Bring it on, Bush!

And here's to our still strong field of Democrats! What's the rush anyway? I say keep 'em guessing...

[youngred]

51. I'm Kucinich first

Clark second and Kerry Third. I think he has an excellent chance of beating Bush and would be happy to see him get the nom

[vision]

52. No not right away

If he is the nominee, I will hold my nose and vote for him but I am not excited by him.

[nancyharris]

55. Senator Kerry talks like a progressive liberal

but votes like a centrist. However, if he wins the nomination I will vote for him.

[corporatewhore]

56. Kucinich first David Cobb second

used to think kerry was liberal until i rembered NAFTA/GATT/WTO/IWR/PATRIOT ACT

[genius]

64. Only in the general election. We like him but not enough for the primary

If Clark or Edwards wins the nomination, we'll support the winner in te general election.

[cyclezealot]

65. For once I agree with Dean.

Dean today said, with Kerry, Clark we have two Repubicans in the Democratic race. I detest Kerry almost as much as Liebermann.He is a chameleon. I have no trust in him..I think him a fake.Had too many nasty encounters calling his office over bad votes over the years.
Not to say, I would not hold my nose and vote for him..Do I like him.No way..Every Kucinich person I know feels the same way.
Good god.After Bush's skull and crossbones membership, why in the hell would we trust another. That is their true loyalty...Blueblood, true and true..
If only he listened to Edward Kennedy more....
Kucinich better stay into the end, or Republicans will take over for sure, if not challenged.
Some Kucinich people have some trust in Edwards.Why? Voting record as bad as Kerry's...Something about trusting Edwards instincts..Not so with Kerry..A shame. Once I liked Kerry..
A strong defense does not mean, voting for defense boondoggles.

[LWolf]

69. Kucinich. Period.

I do not support any other candidate in the democratic primary. I will not vote for any other candidate in the democratic primary.

I will vote for who ever is on the ballot for the democrats in November; if it is not Dennis, it will not be a vote FOR that person; it will be a vote AGAINST Bush.

I'm in the minority in America. I make my choices based on issues and who has the best platform, and the record to show me he can move that platform forward. I don't make choices based on what anyone else thinks. I am not swayed by polls, $$, or front runners. Or stump speeches. If democrats choose their candidate according to things I don't value, then I'll be stuck with a candidate I don't necessarily value, no matter who wins. I'll be there with democrats anyway in November, because of GWB. But if that's the road democrats choose, they shouldn't be surprised to find it becoming less traveled in the future.

[Iverson]

70. b-b-b-but ...!

If you don't vote for the most electachoosable, then the most electable will never be elected, and your pet issues (of which you can't expect 100% fulfilment this instant) won't get addressed in 25 years!

[LWolf]

71. LOL

You wrapped that one up.

[cyclezealot]

72. That argument is bs.

I am sick of hearing it. Studds Terkel says D.Kucinich would wipe Dubya's clock. An easy K.O. Bush so full of crap.
Kerry too beholden to powerful interests demands. I do not buy it.We once thought that of Gore's debating prowess. Gore the centrists, we thought electable..Idiot Dubya made Gore look like an idiot in the second debate. Being a passive backpeddeler, I expect the same from Kerry; since he does not fight solely for the interests of the American people..Can't argue the people's interests if you do not represent them. Not when Kerry has such friends in high places, that he really represents.
Of course some are pretty good at lieing. I predict if Dubya had to debate Kucinich, Dubya would call it off. The prospect would give Dubya insomonia....Dubya not use to aggressive challenges. Kerry he would. Elect ability argument makes me ill...Vote our interests people...Wake up....
. American people got a real taste of Kucinich's debate style, (they do not see it in 2 minute replay's in present debate format) they would be standing in their chairs they way all listeners do at Kucinich rallys. Never have I seen such fired up citizens...