For all non-Clark supporters....

[kentuck]

What is your opinion of the General's criticism of Bush and his secrecy and his failure to do all he could do about preventing 9/11? Also, how brave or stupid is he to so brazenly come out and criticize the media the way he has? Since no other candidate - at least that I have heard - has been as clear and damning in his criticism of the Bush Administration, should the General be commended for his efforts? Why is he the only one willing to go that far in his criticisms?

[Upfront]

1. My 2nd Choice

Clark is my 2nd choice because of the way he has attacked B###. Dean and Clark would make a great team.

[sallyseven]

2. In my opinion

He is very brave. He should stay out of airplanes. He is not the only one that criticized bush. They all have. bush is being battered every day and rightly so.

[kentuck]

5. Yes, they have all criticized Bush but,

and this is just my opinion, none have criticized him as harshly and as direct as the General. He sticks in the knife and twists it, where the others just stick the knife in....:)

[krkaufman]

3. Sorry for violating thread criteria

Sorry for violating the thread criteria... but the theory has been put forth that Dean's fall began with his threatening to challenge media consolidation and monopoly.

[kentuck]

7. I do recall when he said that....

I think it was on the Chris Matthews show??

[democratreformed]

4. He should be commended

for trying to point out the truth. He goes that far b/c he genuinely cares. You know, sometimes backing General Clark is a difficult spot to be in. Sometimes, I just wish he would act like everyone else and do what it takes to win. But, alas, he is Wes Clark and he will do things his way. He is determined to keep saying things that cause the media and Republicans to paint him as mentally unstable. He is determined to basically not engage in "politics as usual" as far as the primary is concerned. That gives me mixed feelings. I admire him for what he is doing but I fear losing. Maybe it will pay off in the end. I still have hope.

[democratreformed]

8. Sorry, I just noticed your title called for NON supporters n/t

[lovedems]

6. I support any candidate who "keeps it real" and is willing to tell the

truth about the horrors of this administration. Thank God for Clark, Dean, Sharpton and DK for keeping the rest of the democrats "real". We will not win this election by being nice to * and tap-dancing around the issues. The people who need to be convinced are those in the "middle" and at least these guys give them something to think about.

[bowens43]

9. I think that everything he says is geared toward

making the Democrats think that he is something that he isn't.
I believe the general says only those things he thinks will give him the presidency. I believe that if Gore was in the oval office Clark's attacks would be aimed squarely at the Gore administration and would be delivered with an unmistakably conservative tone.

Keep in mind that until a short time ago was very clear in his PRAISE and ADMIRATION for this administration.

[kentuck]

10. How is this different from any other candidate running ??

"I believe the general says only those things he thinks will give him the presidency."

Of course, he's trying to persuade the people to vote for him. They all are. The one that is most effective will win the race. That's the secret. The one factor that has to be considered is, for people to believe you, they need to believe you are credible and sincere. If you're not, the people will see thru.

By the way, I think he voted for Gore??

[justinpower]

15. I think

DK and Sharpton speak from the heart. Thats why they are doing poorly in the race. People would rather be spoonfed the lies they want to hear than the truth they are afraid of.

[Democrats unite]

12. At least Clark stays on target

Whished I could say the same for Kerry!

[returnable]

14. He has good company

"Keep in mind that until a short time ago was very clear in his PRAISE and ADMIRATION for this administration."

Oh, NO!

Thanks for pointing that out. What a smoking gun!

I guess we should also oust these folks from the party, too:


Tom Daschle: Shortly after the swearing in Senator Lott and I called the 107th Congress to order so that we could confirm the first seven of President Bush's cabinet choices. This was easy work as President Bush has done an excellent job with his cabinet selections. On Saturday, we confirmed Secretaries Colin Powell (Secretary of State), Paul O'Neill (Treasury), Ann Veneman (Agriculture), Don Evans (Commerce), Rod Paige (Education), Spence Abraham (Energy), and Don Rumsfeld (Defense). I met with almost all of these nominees in the previous weeks and I am enthusiastic about the chance to work closely with them."

Biden said this about Powell, during the confirmation hearing: "Without question, General Powell's experience at the highest levels of government and the conduct of foreign and defense policy and his experience in managing large organizations makes him well qualified to be secretary of state."

Biden, after Powell gave presentation to the Foreign Relations Committee: "I am proud to be associated with you. I think you did better than anyone could have because of your standing, your reputation and your integrity as it is understood by our European friends as well as others around the world."

Rumsfeld and Powell were confirmed handily, with little debate. While Rice did not require confirmation, she was an informal advisor to Democrat Gary Hart during his presidential bid and her appointment received praise from both democrats and republicans.

Gephardt, From a June 2002 VOA article: "In a wide-ranging speech in which he sounded very much like a presidential candidate, Mr. Gephardt praised President Bush's handling of the war in Afghanistan.

The Democratic rebuttal from House Minority Leader Dick Gephardt virtually echoed Bush's address. In a show of support, Gephardt did not argue a single one of Bush's points and even
praised the tax cut.

Gephardt: "I want to commend the president for his strong and patriotic message tonight."

Rep. Rick Larsen, D: "The president deserved a gold medal and a victory lap for the war on terrorism."

Howard Dean: "George Bush is, I believe, in his soul a moderate." and added about those thinking that Mr. Bush's presidency would be a one-term one, "that is going to be a mistake."

Dean, September 2002, regarding Bush on Hussein's WMD:

Dean, who now argues that he saw through Bush's charade from the beginning, said at the time, "I don't think he really has to prove anything. I think that most Americans, including myself, will take the president's word for it."

Joseph Lieberman: ...But he praised Bush's creation of a new multilateral, value-based foreign policy in response to the attacks. He cited Bush's Sept. 20 congressional address as an example of the President asserting his leadership.

"The people and the president face extraordinary challenges," he said. "Both have risen superbly."

...Lieberman praised Bush for being unyielding in his challenges to other nations and unflinching in his demand that they assist the fight against terrorism.


The two also appear divided on the Bush team's recent foray into the Israeli-Palestinian issue. On Sunday, Daschle said he did not have "any problem with what the president is doing in the Middle East now that he is engaged."


Pelosi also praised President Bush's "leadership" in supporting Sharon, whom the president declared to be "a man of peace."

Joseph Kennedy (former Mass. rep.), praising Bush at the Justice Department ceremony: "Your strength since Sept. 11 has been a profile in leadership. You deserve the thanks of all who are committed to freedom from fear, and for all of us as Americans, we stand behind you and with you at this time," he said.

Sen. Edward Kennedy on Bush nominee Rod Paige: "Rod Paige comes to us highly recommended."

Sheila Jackson Lee, Democrat, on Paige: "I wish to tell you that he is a man committed to excellence, an educator who believes every child can learn and every child can succeed. Dr. Paige knows diversity in our community. Our children enjoy coming to school, they enjoy the classrooms... We feel safe when we send our children to school."

Andrew Cuomo, a democrat who ran for governor of NY: Bush "exemplified leadership at a time when America was desperate for a leader. He deserves credit, as do congressional Republicans, for recognizing the challenge of 9/11 and rising to it. Meanwhile, on the Democratic side, there was chaos. We handled 9/11 like it was a debate over a highway bill instead of a matter of people's lives."

Former U.S. House Speaker Jim Wright, Democrat: ...praised President Bush on Wednesday for pulling the nation together after last week's terrorist attacks, but warned "the hard part is coming."

Wright, a Democrat, had kind words for Bush's speeches to the nation after the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. He said the Republican president's speech at a Washington prayer service Friday was "the best I've seen him give."

Tom Harkin, 2001: The administration's farm policy language was similar to proposals by Senate Agriculture Committee chairman Tom Harkin for up to $50,000 a year in conservation payments to farmers. The Iowa Democrat said he was pleased the administration "is focused on promoting conservation."

Daschle: On ABC's This Week, Tom Daschle called Condi Rice's thin answers to his questions "very helpful" and said they contributed to "constructive dialogue." Then, he said he was ready to work with the White House to draft a Senate resolution, ostensibly one that would authorize use of force, and may hold a vote on it before adjournment next month.

Biden: Sen. Joseph Biden of Delaware, said he would work with Helms to move the nomination quickly. "At the present time, I foresee no problems," Biden said, calling Powell "a man of great integrity."

Carl Levin, D-Mich., ranking Democrat on the Senate Armed Services Committee called Rumsfeld "a strong choice."

Senator Evan Bayh, Democrat of Indiana, the new chairman of the DLC, on Bush's budget speech: "I think we have a real opportunity to make bipartisan progress." He praised Bush's support for education and a patients' bill of rights, and added, "I wholeheartedly endorse the President's call for major tax relief to get the economy moving again.

"Asked. . . for a 100-day score for Bush, Senate Minority Leader Thomas A. Daschle (D-S.D.) said, `I guess I would give him an A-plus for his first 30 days, a B-plus for his second 30 days and a C-minus for his third 30 days, and probably a better grade his last 10, given the China situation.' "(Mike Allen, "Reluctantly, Bush To Mark His First 100 Days In Office," The Washington Post, April 24, 2001)

Leon Panetta Gives President Bush High Marks: "I think he gets high marks for the style of his presidency, the way he has assumed the organization and discipline of the White House operation and the experienced people he's brought in," said Leon Panetta, former White House chief of staff to President Clinton.(Donald Lambro, "President Gets Praise From Both Sides," The Washington Times, April 30, 2001)

Another "A" Grade. Representative Frank Mascara (D-PA) gave President Bush high marks for attending the Democrats' retreat, saying, "The president deserves an `A.'"(James O'Toole, "Bush Courts Democrats," Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, February 5, 2001)

Senator Tom Carper, A Democrat, Says Bush's Campaign Promises Made Sense. "`During the last campaign there were a number of things - and I probably shouldn't say it with my Democratic colleagues here - but there were a number of things proposed by then-Governor Bush that then-Governor Carper agreed with,' acknowledged Mr. Carper, Delaware's former governor, who cited among other things Mr. Bush's proposals on education reform and refundable tax credits. `There were elements of Governor Bush's campaign for the president where he campaigned in poetry. That made a whole lot of sense to this governor,'" Mr. Carper explained.(John McCaslin, "Inside the Beltway," The Washington Times, March 19, 2001)

DEMOCRATS PRAISE BUSH FOR BRINGING CIVILITY TO WASHINGTON

Senator Max Baucus (D-MT), after meeting with Bush: "Those of us who've been in Washington for a long time are tired of the excessive partisanship. This president is reaching out to both sides of the aisle - and we're reaching back." (Abraham McLaughlin, "In Washington, Civility In The Air," The Christian Science Monitor, February 1, 2001)

Congressman Charles Rangel Credits Bush For Creating a Climate Of Civility. Representative Charles Rangel (D-NY), who has met with Bush twice, praised the president for reaching out and "creating a climate of civility," adding: "He's a very, very personable guy and he loves what he's doing." (Brian Blomquist, "Black Pols Hopeful After Bush Parley," The New York Post, February 1, 2001)

Senator Ted Kennedy Calls President Bush's Graciousness A Powerful Factor And Force. "At a White House ceremony that included members of the Massachusetts delegation, Mr. Bush named a U.S. courthouse in Boston for ailing Democratic Rep. Joe Moakley. Guests included fierce Clinton defenders Reps. Martin T. Meehan, Barney Frank, Bill Delahunt and Sen. Edward M. Kennedy. 'I think the president was being gracious and that's a powerful factor and a force,' the Massachusetts senator said. `And I think he deserves credit for it. And we were very grateful. I'm delighted.'" (Joseph Curl, "Charming Bush Lauded After 100 Days," The Washington Times, April 30, 2001)

DEMOCRATS PRAISE BUSH'S EMPHASIS ON EDUCATION

Senator Ted Kennedy Says We've Come a Long Way. ``We've come a long way together. Education is the President's priority, and it's our priority, too,'' said Senator Edward M. Kennedy, (D-MA), senior Democrat on the Committee on Health, Education, Labor and Pensions. (David Espo, "Bush, Congress Learn To Get Along," The Associated Press, April 24, 2001)

Congressman Chaka Fattah Praises Bush's Commitment To Education. "Representative Chaka Fattah also praised Bush's commitment to improving education . . ." (Claude R. Marx, "Delegation Gives Mixed Grades To Bush Speech And Plan," The Associated Press, February 27, 2001)

DEMOCRATS SUPPORT BUSH'S CALLS FOR TAX RELIEF

Senator Robert Torricelli: "I think the country could both afford and deserves broad-based tax reduction. I particularly support the component of the Bush tax cut that lowers marginal rates for middle-income families." (Alison Vekshin, "North Jersey Lawmakers, Predict ably, Toe Partyline," The Bergen County Record, February 9, 2001)

DEMOCRATS CREDIT BUSH FOR HIS WILLINGNESS TO ATTEND THEIR RETREAT

Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle: "I give him great credit for the willingness to come. . . . It doesn't happen very often and I thought he was well received." (Godfrey and Curl, "Bush II, Charging Into The Retreat," The Washington Times, February 3, 2001)

Congressman Benjamin Cardin: "People always feel good about his willingness to meet and tone down the rhetoric," (Janet Hook, "Bush Moves In On Democratic Retreat," Los Angeles Times, February 5, 2001)

Senator Joe Biden: "It was more than a gesture. I think he sincerely is going to try to figure out how to make it work." (Mike Allen and Helen Dear, "Bush Is A Hit At Democratic Retreat," The Washington Post, February 3, 2001)

Congressman John Murtha, D-PA: Congressman John P. Murtha (D-PA), called the session "very substantive." Murtha said both sides had approached the meeting "with a lot of trepidation" but said of Bush, "He certainly made all the overtures you'd want to see." (James O'Toole, "Bush Courts Democrats," Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, February 5, 2001)

DEMOCRATS SALUTE BUSH ON HIS HANDLING OF FOREIGN POLICY

Director Of Communications In The Clinton White House Says President Bush Dominating National Debate. ". . . Bush also receives high marks from some Democrats. `He has handled one foreign policy crisis well (and) he has started to dominate the national debate and national attention,' says Donald A. Baer, communications director in the Clinton White House. `On all of those fronts, he's done quite well.'" (Editorial, "Bush's 100 Days In Office," Lancaster New Era, April 25, 2001)

Senator Jean Carnahan: "I believe President Bush, Secretary Powell and Ambassador Prueher should be commended for the manner in which they handled this matter." (Senator Jean Carnahan, Press Release, April 11, 2001)

A Diplomatic Triumph Says Senator Bob Graham. " `diplomatic triumph' for Bush." (Sara Fritz, "China Releases U.S. Crew," St. Petersburg Times, April 12, 2001)

Senator Chris Dodd Says Great Job. "I think the administration did a great job. My compliments to them." (PBS' "NewsHour," April 11, 2001)

Senator Gary Ackerman Gives High Marks. "I give the president and secretary of state very high marks," said Representative Gary Ackerman (D-NY), who's on the House International Relations Committee. (Deborah Orin and Marilyn Rauber, "Spy Plane's Crew Comes Home," The New York Post, April 12, 2001)

Senator Joe Biden Says Bush Was Wise. "The way in which the president handled this from the beginning . . . not letting it get out of hand, not yielding to the temptation of escalating it, not referring to our crew as hostages . . . all was wise, it showed balance." (John Wildermuth, "Homeward Bound," The San Francisco Chronicle, April 12, 2001)

Senator Harry Reid "I've Been Saying It All Along." "I've been saying all along that he and (Secretary of State) Colin Powell were doing a good job," Reid said. ("Bush Praised For Getting China To Free 24 Crewman," The Deseret News, April 11, 2001)

Terry McAuliffe Commends White House. ". . . we commend the Bush White House, Colin Powell, the State Department and all of the negotiators who worked around the clock to find a peaceful solution." ( Terry McAuliffe, DNC Press Release, April 11, 2001)

DEMOCRATS HERALD BUSH'S FAITH-BASED INITIATIVES

Senator Joseph Lieberman Praises President Bush. Lieberman praised President Bush's faith-based initiative for promoting a national discussion on the role of religion in civil society and for promoting religious organizations as a "supplement to what government does to solve social problems, and not as a substitute." (Senator Joe Lieberman, Speech to the Pew Charitable Trusts Forum on Religion and Public Life, March 1, 2001)

DEMOCRATS APPLAUD BUSH MANAGEMENT AND STAFF

"I give him an A for management," said William Galston, who was President Clinton's first domestic policy adviser. "The administration of the White House staff and the executive office of the president seems to me to be carried out with a high degree of professionalism, efficiency and discipline." (Donald Lambro, "President Gets Praise From Both Sides," The Washington Times, April 30, 2001)

Senator Russ Feingold and Secretary Donna Shalala Call Tommy Thompson An Outstanding Addition To Cabinet. Wisconsin Democratic Senator Russ Feingold (D-WI) praised President Bush's choice of Wisconsin GOP Governor Tommy Thompson as Secretary of Health and Human Services, calling Thompson a "dedicated public servant" and an "outstanding addition" to Bush's cabinet. Donna Shalala, outgoing secretary of HHS, concurred. (Bill Kaplan, "Washington Shows Signs Of Bipartisanship," Wisconsin State Journal, January 26, 2001)

Senator Herb Kohl, D: "I am also pleased with President Bush's decision to appoint Donald Rumsfeld as Secretary of Defense. He is an experienced voice on defense issues, and one that the Congress has come to rely on for outside analysis. He recently addressed the threat of ballistic missiles in a special report to Congress that now shapes much of the debate on ballistic missile defense. His years of public service and expertise will give him the credibility inside the Pentagon to make the tough choices that face the new administration, and they will face many. I feel confident that Secretary Rumsfeld is qualified to help the President shape our armed forces to meet the evolving threats of the new century." (Senator Herb Kohl, Congressional Record, January 24, 2001)

Senator Chris Dodd Commends President Bush: "Mr. President, yesterday the Senate unanimously approved the nomination of Anthony Principi to be President Bush's Secretary of Veterans Affairs. In my judgment, Secretary Principi is supremely qualified to take on the challenges that will face the next Secretary of Veterans Affairs, and I fully supported his confirmation. . . . I commend President Bush for putting forth such a quality and qualified nominee. Secretary Principi will be a credit to this Administration." (Senator Chris Dodd, Congressional Record, January 24, 2001)

Senator Robert Torricelli Says Bush Made Wise Selection. "President Bush has made a very wise selection. The EPA and the country will be getting an Administrator who is qualified, tested and ready to tackle the challenges that lie ahead for this agency." (Senator Torricelli, Senate Environment and Public Works Committee Hearing, January 17, 2001)

Senator Joe Biden Proclaims Powell Widely Respected. "This is one of those easy days, when we have a man before us who is so widely respected on both sides of the aisle." (Senator Biden, Senate Foreign Relations Committee Hearing, January 17, 2001)

Senator Tom Daschle Commends Bush. "President-elect Bush is to be commended for nominating the treasury secretary, who has such broad knowledge and experience in both the public and the private sectors." (Senator Daschle, Senate Finance Committee Hearing, January 17, 2001)

Senator Ted Kennedy Says Vote For Chao Will Be Overwhelmingly Favorable. The Senate vote on Chao, set for Tuesday, "is going to be very positive and overwhelmingly favorable," predicted Senator Edward M. Kennedy (D-MA), the committee's senior Democrat. (Eric Lichtblau, "The New Administration," Los Angeles Times, January 25, 2001)

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

11. Clark is completely correct

This year more than any other it's important for the Dems to really get in people's faces and make a stand. I just don't think "looking presidential" is going to cut it this year --- what I believe WILL do the trick is standing up to the bullying of the Bush administration and aggressively going after on every issue, sacred cows be damned.

I'm glad that Clark has been as forthcoming about the fact that Bush dropped the ball on 9-11 --- the criticism means a lot more coming from someone in uniform, particularly since Bush seems to have gotten a pass from everyone on this.

[JVS]

13. good

:thumbsup:

[spindoctor]

16. Other candidates have been damning but were damned for it...

That sounded good when I read it the first time.

Anyway, Dean, Sharpton, Kucinich and let's not forget Graham have been at least as damning if not more, but did not have the press turn their way the way Clark manages to do.

Good timing, skill or luck?

I personally think its luck, but I retract my earlier comment that Moore and Clark should let the deserter/AWOL thing rest. Its finally getting noticed on a broader scale. Use it sparingly, but don't bag it at this time.

On a side note, I finally convinced my wife to go vote this year. The downside is that now she will vote for Clark. Oh well, I still have a few months to work her over and if all else fails there is always my daughter.

;)

[justinpower]

17. It certainly isnt stupid

I dont know that it is particularly brave either. If he is saying what he believes he should certainly be commended. It is an unusual thing to see these days.

[Shanty Oilish]

18. What did he say?

What comments do you mean re "criticize the media the way he has?"
Got a link? I can't find anything on Google news about Clark and the media.

[bicentennial_baby]

19. Here you go

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=251280

[Shanty Oilish]

22. Thank you _baby....Question

Dean went further, I think it was on Hardball a while back, saying he'd break up these conglomerates. Is there any such determination on Clark's part?

[Tom Rinaldo]

23. Not sure, but consider this

I don't know if Clark has issued a specific policy about breaking up those media conglomerates. While I can't expect you to take this on faith, I do: If Wes Clark calls something a threat to Democracy, given the opportunity, he will act to counter that threat. That is what Clark has been about for his whole life. While other politicians have talked about the negative effects of media centralization, fewer viewpoints represented etc. I don't know of anyone else who has come right out and called it a direct threat to our very Democracy. Maybe Dean has, which puts both of these men out there on the fighting edge.

[Shanty Oilish]

24. Thank you Tom...you've pinned down my problem with

all of them. "I can't expect you to take this on faith." Exactly! If I were going to start taking people's words on faith I wouldn't start with politicians. This is the main reason I'm behind Kerry. I don't agree with everything he's done but he's got a long, long record to judge him by.
Seems like this year, very few specifics are coming across the air. If a fellow thinks the media conglomerates are an outright threat to democracy itself, I'd like to hear what he aims to do about it.

[Tom Rinaldo]

20. I think they're a threat to democracy itself with its control of the media

That's one Clark quote taken from the article linked in the thread that bicentennial_baby left in her reply above. You should check it out. Clark keeps speaking truth to power.

[David Zephyr]

21. Razor Sharp Observation.

Kentuck-

I do not have a lot of time right now, but this weekend it became apparent that Howard Dean, with Trippi's firing and loss in Iowa, has seemed to quieten down on the issues of 9/11, war in Iraq. And, of course, Kerry and Edwards seem thrilled that Dean has lightened up, as well.

Wes Clark has not backed away for a moment on these issues.

Thanks for pointing this out.