Why some people will not vote for Kerry in the primary or GE...

[CTLawGuy]

For those of us who have been fighting against spinelessness and enabling behavior among Democrats face a hard choice if Kerry is the nominee.

1) Allow Bush to be elected to another 4 years.

2) Be completely disenfranchised from the Democratic Party by voting for Kerry

While we don't want Bush, if the democratic party base caves in and voted for Kerry, we will send the message that our candidate can

vote for IWR
vote for the Patriot Act
abstain on the medicare bill
support some of Bush's tax cuts
vote for No Child Left Behind

and get away with it. Ask yourself what will happen next time an IWR comes up. Will the dems say "gee, maybe we should vote against it, since our people are unhappy with it" or will they say " we should vote for it to try to get swing voters. Our base is so afraid of the other guy they'll support us no matter what. Kerry voted for all those horrible things and they voted for him"

We have a responsibility to hold our party accountable when they fail to represent us. If you want more patriot acts and IWR's, if you are ok with that, then by all means, support Kerry. The best thing we can do, and we still have time, is to nominate an outsider like Dean or Clark, to both beat Bush and send a message that spinelessness will not be tolerated.

If you have been happy with the performance of Dems in Congress from 2001-2004 then by all means vote for Kerry, if not, theres still time to save the party.

[DrFunkenstein]

1. More Biden-Lugar's?

Dean would have given the President authority for unilateral action at his discretion - except Bush would have to send a letter to Congress.

Dean indicated that a real second look would need to be made after Sept. 11 and probably would have voted for it considering the real need for intelligence coordination between agencies. Kerry indicated he would immediately scrap the Patriot Act and restore civil rights that it denied.

Kerry led the unsuccessful filibuster of the medicare bill with Kennedy and made the cloture vote. Hardly laying down to the GOP.

Kerry said he will cut the deficit in half (not eliminate it) while keeping the small middle-class tax cut and making those over $200,000 give it back.

The problem with NCLB is not inherent to Kennedy's vision for it. Bush took away the funds needed to pass the tests and made it overly inflexible to local needs. That doesn't mean it is inherently bad.

[CTLawGuy]

11. no

" Dean would have given the President authority for unilateral action at his discretion - except Bush would have to send a letter to Congress."

Wrong, B-L only allows Bush to act militarily to get rid of WMD. He would not have been allowed to turn around and say he was "freeing the Iraqi people so who cares about WMD". the IWR lets him do anything for any reason. See my sig.

"Dean indicated that a real second look would need to be made after Sept. 11 and probably would have voted for it considering the real need for intelligence coordination between agencies. Kerry indicated he would immediately scrap the Patriot Act and restore civil rights that it denied."

Out of context. Dean said that people would be taking a second look at liberties, not that he personally would. And how funny of Kerry to pledge to repeal something he voted for...


"Kerry led the unsuccessful filibuster of the medicare bill with Kennedy and made the cloture vote. Hardly laying down to the GOP."

Great, but why not vote against the damn bill?? why vote "present"?

"Kerry said he will cut the deficit in half (not eliminate it) while keeping the small middle-class tax cut and making those over $200,000 give it back."

He'll do that, but he's leaving a lot of lost revenue in the tax cuts, and Bush will remind everyone that kerry voted against the middle class tax cuts, which is true. And he will call him a "tax raiser" for simply wanting to repeal one dime of Bushs tax cut.


"The problem with NCLB is not inherent to Kennedy's vision for it. Bush took away the funds needed to pass the tests and made it overly inflexible to local needs. That doesn't mean it is inherently bad."

NCLB is an unfunded mandate designed to destroy the public school system. educators almmost universally hate it. it places all measurement of success for a school into a single test, which is a very inaccurate measure of how good a school is. It will turn public schools into a glorified test-prep program like they are in Texas.

[joshcryer]

15. Thank you for your comments about Biden-Lugar.

Very insightful.

[seaglass]

29. MA. has had testing long before NCLB.

As a parent with a child in middle school and one in high school, I agree with testing. The testing starts in elementary school and is one measure of a student's progress. Maybe MA. school systems are different than in other parts of the country but I graduated in the 70's and I was tested throughout my school years. The only difference is that no one was held accountable for my results.

I believe the approach to failing schools needs to be supportive rather than punitive and of course NCLB needs to be funded.

To be honest, I really don't care whether teachers like testing or not. It's good for the kids and they are the target of NCLB.

[IndianaGreen]

2. Democratic sugar-coating

The Democratic establishment will pursue Bush's war of imperialist expansion, the PNAC-agenda for short, just as vigorously as Bush has. The only different is that the Democrats will sugar coat the imperialist medicine so that it doesn't taste as bitter as it did under Bush.

Electing John Kerry President will not end the war in Iraq, or lead to a repeal of PATRIOT, or even slow down globalism.

[wyldwolf]

3. Funny - sounds like reasons not to vote for Dean...

The important one, that is:

1) Allow Bush to be elected to another 4 years.

[Forkboy]

8. No,it sounds like a reason to not vote for either sad sack

[JasonDeter]

4. If Kerry is the nominee and Democrats don't vote for him

You deserve what you'll get, which will be 4 more years of bush*. That isn't what you want is it? Is it?

"Mommy, get my toys! I'm going home!"

[CTLawGuy]

6. I guess you wont be compalinaing

about Dems being spineless anymore, because it does not matter to you. It matters to a lot of people.

[wyldwolf]

7. Actually I think it is what some people want...

... so If Kerry loses (which if the election were right now he wouldn't - if you believe the polls), they can say "See! We should have nominated Dean! He woulda' won! See! See! That damn DLC!"

[Forkboy]

10. And some of us support neither

so using one as a defense of the other gets really old fast.It just reinforces what some of us think about both men and their supporters.

[wyldwolf]

12. Since we are talking about the eventual nominee, explain this to us

...If enough people like you withhold their vote, how could this not help Bush win again?

[Forkboy]

13. It will help Bush

Sucks doesn't it...

[formernaderite]

18. True, it's a short term victory for the republicans...

...which would also send a strong message to the democrats about ignoring a substantially sized progressive contigent who's votes they don't own. The voting for "whoever the nominee is" argument, ignores the fact that Congressional is awash with those on the right. Without a strong contrast, how will people tell the difference anymore?
Clinton swung the party to the right, and since then we've lost our representative majority. Coincidence?
Why do democrats believe that the only prize is the executive branch? Remember how much money Mcawful wasted in Florida trying to oust Bush from his gubernatorial seat? How many other races were ignored because of this superficial strategy?

[Shanty Oilish]

9. DU will look like Flanders fields the day after

what with all the tombstones!

[whirlygigspin]

5. frankly speaking

Dean dug the hole he's in himself by not being flexible on the middle class tax break.

That made him "un-acceptable" to the country club Boomer/democrats who pay more taxes and actually do show up to vote.

The problem with pinning your hopes for a support base on the disinfranchised is that the disenfrachised by nature tend not to bother to show up to vote, hence the appelation.

Dean could still possibly turn it around, by eating loads of humble pie and speaking from the heart, leaving the script at home and giving the cockyness a rest, who knows...

Kerry is a good man, but I still don't think he can beat Bush--
reminds me of the lawyer who argued the case for the 2000 election at the supreme court--he was very eloquant and made his case well, ripping to shreads the whole idea of not counting the votes and overturning the Florida supreme court, and Antonin Scalia just laughed in his face.

[billbuckhead]

14. I won't vote for Dean over the NRA.They have an enemies list of mostly lib

erals. Dean pretends he wasn't given an "A" rating 8 times by these thugs.

[joshcryer]

17. Dean pretends?

Then why, may I ask, did he come out and say it directly on Meet the Press.

[adadem]

21. You put it so clearly

and I agree with you. For every one that refuses to vote for Kerry, or Clark or Edwards there are just as many who refuse to cast a vote for Dean.

[buckeye1]

16. ABB

Dean can't win he is a loser. He will not recover. Most people don't like doctors. Where is Dean better than any other.

He has no spine and has the X-rays to prove it. Ski on HBDIII,you privileged brat.

[CWebster]

22. Yeah and really impressed with the man who volunteers

to go kill in an unjust war.

[Skwmom]

19. Great post.

I been struggling with the same thing.

[buckeye1]

20. Right on.

They are all Republicans. Leaders win, BS sinks. Dean has no spine. His x-rays prove it.

[robbedvoter]

23. Only voted 28% of the time, but accomodated W on most major crap

Didn't vote on Medicare (lied that he did in Florida), overtime, FCC consolidation. Also, asked for Tenet's resignation - CYA on WMD lies to W?
http://chat.forclark.com/story/2004/1/30/9319/54910

[dusty64]

24. Unfortunately it appears

the party is speaking and they like what they see. I'm personally involved in a puzzle, I am deeply disappointed in the direction this election seems to be headed but can't really say anything about it. Everyone around me has been putting up with my ranting and raving about rethugs for the last three years and are finally ready to vote Democratic (many didn't vote and some (gasp!) actually voted chimp, not this time). I seem to be forced to only speak of my doubts and disappointment here on this forum as my main goal is to oust our regime. So I guess you guys will have to deal with it, sorry.

[kayob1]

25. I feel the same way.

Thanks for the great post.

[mike_c]

26. Yep, it's looking like the Dems are gonna hand the Greens...

...a major campaign issue-- again. There's not a one of the current front runners that I can vote for without holding my nose (with the possible exception of Dean because of his courage in opposing the Iraq invasion early, but otherwise he's far from my ideals). Why does the Democratic party seem so determined to distance itself from the legacy of democrats like FDR?

[emulatorloo]

27. Here's my litmus test

Dean is too conservative for me.

Clark has no domestic experience to speak of.

On the other hand, they are both excellent candidates, and either will make a hell of a lot better president than GWB, and I will so be working for them or voting for them if they are nominated.

None of these guys are perfect, but they are all heads and shoulders about GWB.

There are a *lot* of positives about JK and his record despite what you are saying. Your criticisms are legit, and they've also been answered w legitimate answers.

OTOH I am not seeing *any* positives for GWB . . . America and I don't need to be punished anymore.

So for me it is ABB!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

28. Kerry's "not as bad" as bush. You can trust the DLC.

Kerry's kind of liberal. Well, sort of, a little bit. He only voted for the war because he was really against it. He's strong on "defense" but doesn't really like the military.

The DLC serves up another "not as bad" candidate who's not "too liberal" and expects us vote for their latest example of tepid pablum because otherwise the bogeyman bush is going to get us.

Then they blame the left for their losses, and there are people who believe them.