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WWW Donating Member (597 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 07:51 PM
Original message
Okay I am a Kerry fan
Convince me why your candidate is better. I am truly open to any argument.
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THUNDER HANDS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
1. you shouldn't have said ANY argument
How many skull & bones references are we gonna hear?
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WWW Donating Member (597 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Skulls and bones dont' work for me/ non issue n/t
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
2. Kerry has been bulldozed by Bush over the past two years.
He's not going to be able to offer any opposition or alternative to Bush, in particular on the important issues, because he voted with the Bush administration on so many occasions. You can't win an election against an incumbent unless you can show that you actually disagree with them. Kerry's impotent, as are the rest of the insiders. We need an outsider if we're going to beat Bush.

So, vote for Dean or Clark. Preferably Dean.
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sallyseven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. No thanks I prefer Kerry
He doesn't pout.
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WWW Donating Member (597 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. Nope that don't work, the GOP is saying how many times Kerry voted
against the GOP on defense and homeland security and tax cuts.
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Right, so he's going to get nailed from both sides.
The real issues that Kerry can go up against Bush with, like the war, he voted WITH Bush over. THEN, on the general issue of national security, he's going to get hit from the other side. He's going to get spun like a top- and it's all because of his lack of leadership.
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KissMyAsscroft Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 07:57 PM
Response to Original message
4. He constantly votes like a Repub...
or doesn't vote at all.

I will vote for him over Bush of course, but that's not saying much.
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Not everyone will go to the polls for him, though...
which is just another reason to nominate someone else. We need to fire up our base with some real opposition. We're not going to win if a couple million people stay home because they remember Kerry's lack of leadership when it really mattered.
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WWW Donating Member (597 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Lack of leardership?
Saving that guy in Vietnam, ordering the boat to turn around to get him and then coming back to the US to protest the war? He had everything to lose,,, nothing to win. Why did he do it? He wasn't running for president then. One word, compassion.
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. I'm talking about the last two years.
Why hasn't Kerry opposed Bush's BS policies for the last two years? He's totally abandoned us, and even now he's still defending his IWR vote. We needed Kerry, and the rest of the Senate, BEFORE the war. They weren't there for us. That is the epitome of a lack of leadership.
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WWW Donating Member (597 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. This isn't about what is wrong with Kerry
It is about what is right with your candidate.
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. What's right with Dean is that he hasn't been bulldozed by the Bush
administration over the past two years. He can, and has, offered real opposition to Bush's policies, even when it was unpopular. That is what we need right now: a candidate that is strong in their conviction, unspoiled by their personal weakness and fear, who can energize our party's base and offer successful executive experience and realistic and positive vision for America's future. That's Howard Dean.
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WWW Donating Member (597 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Come on!!! He wasn't in congress
Edited on Sun Feb-01-04 08:33 PM by WWW
He can say whatever he wants because young American lives never hinged on any vote he ever took...get real.
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. Well...yeaaaaahhhh....
That's part of my point.
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mb7588a Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. "Constantly votes like a Repub..."
Right. That's why the repubs are gonna say he's more liberal than Teddy Kennedy I suppose? Check your facts.
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #4
24. Please don't back up your accusations with facts
Make up more accusations that are unfounded if it makes you feel good.
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corporatewhore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 07:57 PM
Response to Original message
5. cough NAFTA/WTO cough
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Feanorcurufinwe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
7. My candidate is better because he's an environmentalist who's strong
on national security, a liberal who can win Republican votes, oh, wait...





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molly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. That's a great picture - except for the gun
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WWW Donating Member (597 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
14. And look this isn't a flame
Just tell me why your candidate is a better choice, not what is wrong with Kerry. You are convincing me more and more to vote for Kerry with your responses.
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NV1962 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 08:15 PM
Response to Original message
16. I won't
I believe that, if you have taken an open look at all candidates and their respective propositions, and you've come to the conclusion that John Kerry represents your views best, you should stick to your convictions.

As much as I'd like to present "counter-arguments" I don't presume to "know better" for you. Since you've stated your preference already, I'll presume, instead, that you've thought things through and weighed all arguments appropriately.

That is nothing less than respectable, as is your affirmation of keeping an open mind, well, open. I really don't think there are "sticking" arguments that could really sway you, if you've really taken a look at the topics here, over the past few weeks - I'd go as far as saying that suggesting the contrary is a tad presumptuous.

May the best candidate win... Too much is at stake for a light-heartedly chosen nominee.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
18. Okay. Here's my argument...
Both are exceptionally good men. I do not buy all the stuff that is put out against John Kerry. I think he still maintains much of the idealism and humanity that he brought back from Viet Nam with him when he started the VVAW.(Vietnam Veterans Against the War) I think he would do a much better job than the present occupant, George W Bush.

That said, I think Wes Clark is the man for the times. Our country is very divided - Democrat vs Repub, rich vs poor, black vs white, etc. We need a President that can unite this country - not just our Party. In my opinion, Wes Clark is the best hope to do that.

In normal times, I could never support a career military man for such a high office. But these are not "normal" times. We do not need a partisan or someone that has been in politics for a long time, in my opinion. We need someone that is somewhat of an outsider but still espouses Democratic values. Wes Clark fits that bill. He will appeal to liberals, independents, and many Republicans. That is necessary if this country is going to be united.

Wes Clark comes across as a very sincere and honest person. I do not doubt that he is a Democrat. He will be a "doer". He will get things done. He will be more effective as President than any other person running, in my opinion. He is a leader.

Another point that is very important in the Clark campaign is that black people admire and respect General Wesley Clark. Why? Because of his military experience. Black folks understand that the military has been the one institution in America where they could get equal opportunity and be judged on their merits. They admire General Clark's background and his history in supporting Affirmative Action.

Although the General did take a job as a lobbyist, when he retired, that is not a disqualifying point from my perspective. Many generals and high-ranking officers become lobbyists when they get out of the military. It is informative that he has not built a career out of lobbying.

In the final analysis, my choice comes down to who can unite this country and who has the best chance at challenging the status quo in Washington? With John Kerry, a good man, I think the status quo would more or less stay the same if he is elected. Also, I think General Wesley Clark is the only person that can win in the South and will win nationwide with his message.

I have been a John Kerry supporter for a good while and respect all the candidates running, but in the final analysis, I must support who I think is best for our country at this crossroads of history. He is the best choice to change the direction of our Party, which is downward, and to change the direction of our nation and regain respect around the world. George McGovern was correct. He is the best Democrat in the race.

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WWW Donating Member (597 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Thank you! I was also leaning toward Clark.
Edited on Sun Feb-01-04 08:34 PM by WWW
A war with no American lives were lost. Thank you for your words, I will consider them when I make my vote. I am learning toward Kerry but will give Clark my full attention. Thanks so much.
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childslibrarian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
22. I want to win
I will vote for any Democratic candidate that runs. I just hope that Howard's influence has given Kerry some ....b*lls. He didn't appear to have any before Howard's influence.
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maxr4clark Donating Member (639 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
23. Kerry is my #2.
The only worry I have about Kerry is that he may not defeat Bush. If Kerry were a candidate that we were sure would survive the Rove machine, there wouldn't have been 9 major candidates this election; Dean's campaign would have had no traction last year; General Clark would not have entered the race.

The question isn't whether Kerry is nominatable, which is all his wins in Iowa and NH show; the problem is whether he is ELECTABLE against George Bush. And, secondarily, how good a job he would do as President.

I believe Clark has the right experience to move our country forward in the next four years. I also see him as the most electable candidate, because the Rove machine will have a hard time attacking him on character, patriotism, or strength on defense. He is the most liberal candidate I have ever seen whose support comes primarily from moderate democrats and independents. He is also much more of an outsider than Kerry can ever be, and outsiders seem to have had an advantage in the majority of the recent elections.

I also think Kerry, as a quintessential New England liberal Democrat, will have a very hard time getting his agenda passed through a Republican Congress. Clark at least projects a more moderate, less traditional Democratic image. That will continue to make it difficult for Republicans in Congress to dismiss his agenda from the minds of their constituents, and in the media as well. Thus, the same problem I have with Kerry for electability makes me worry that he would be an ineffective President, as well--much like Carter was. Carter was a great man, and should have made a great President, if the Congress had let him be one.

Kerry would make a very effective Vice President, in my opinion; I support a Clark/Kerry ticket. If Clark does not get the nomination, I vastly prefer Kerry to Dean or Edwards--but it won't make much difference if he doesn't beat Bush.
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WWW Donating Member (597 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. Again, thanks for your kind words for your candidate
I am trying to make up my mind and what is right about an individual is way going to to sway me more than what is wrong with the person I like at the moment. Thanks again.
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
27. Kerry supporter here but something I saw in Bowling for Columbine...
Pissed me off. As I recall there was a video clip of him blaming the shootings on the media. But since I know that media regulation is less likely to happen under him than Bush, I see him as a better choice. But I'm not completely loyal to Kerry at the moment, the only person I'm really loyal to is whoever wins the nomination.
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