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All my problems with Kerry would go away if he would do one thing

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ButterflyBlood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 06:52 PM
Original message
All my problems with Kerry would go away if he would do one thing
it's very simple. Just say "I was wrong to vote for the IWR."

It's that simple. Right now he's been the most wafflely candidate on that issue, and his position has been all over the place, changing his stance and why he voted for it every 10 minutes.

He wouldn't be the first. Tom Harkin and Henry Waxman have both come out saying they regretted voting for it and that Bush had fooled them.

All Kerry has to do is say he was wrong to vote for it. As it is I'll cast an ABB vote for him anyway, but he might get more of my dollars or time if I had no qualms.
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corporatewhore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
1. if he would be in favor for bringing the troops home and withdrawling from
NAFTA/WTO
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. I think that he needs to campaign that NAFTA/WTO means...
That seniors can go to Canada to buy perscription drugs. Free trade is free trade. The Republicans will be shitting themselves.
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ButterflyBlood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. not exactly
this is hardly a left/right, Rep/Dem issue. My far right congressman has been one of the biggest proponents of importing drugs from Canada. New Hampshire's GOP governor has said they'll import drugs from Canada regardless of what the FDA says. Our Bush puppet governor Tim Pawlenty has said the same. Of course if Bush takes a hard stance against it, it could turn a lot of Republican seniors to our side.
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #10
19. The far right being against this is a great thing...
They will either vote democratic for the sake of saving their party from Bush or they will vote third party.
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lcordero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
2. the problems would not go away
He has a lot deeper problems than just the IWR vote.
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Dark Star Donating Member (365 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. Complete agreement here!
I'm ABB, though; I'll vote for him if need be, but that is not his only 'problem'!
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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
3. I agree--I'm obviously going to vote for any Dem nominee, but my
enthusiasm and money would certainly go to a person I believe does not simply sway with the political winds. That's how I feel about Kerry right now, and nothing in the past few months has made me change that opinion--in fact, it's gotten much stronger recently.
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molly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
4. Who are you voting for?
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THUNDER HANDS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
5. I wish he would too
But then again, he'd get criticized for 'flip-flopping' and taking yet another position.

So either way, he'd be screwed.

Luckily, most voters don't seem to mind the way he chose to vote that day.
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
6. Yep - and he could stick it to Shrub at the same time
Edited on Sun Feb-01-04 07:01 PM by Rabrrrrrr
"I'm sorry I voted for it, in hindsight it was the wrong thing to do, I regret that I didn't look into the issue more closely, but my vote was based on trust in our president, which trust I realize now he took advantage of by lying to us, to the American people, and to the world."

Taht way he claims ownership of his mistake AND nails el presidente.
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lastknowngood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
7. how every child left behind and no more overtime
for workers and the shrub's no millionaire left behind tax cuts.
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 07:35 PM
Response to Original message
11. He has said pretty much the same thing since day one
Edited on Sun Feb-01-04 07:42 PM by emulatorloo
basically he is against arm proliferation, and thinks that bad people w bad weapons ought to be disarmed. However, that disarmament should be done thru a process, with UN, with weapons inspectors, with our allies, with war only as a last resort, and never unilateral war.

So those core beliefs don't change (non-proliferation, process, war as last resort), even though Bush screwed us by fixing the evidence and rushing to war unnecessarily.

Dr. Funkenstein put together a nice summary at http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=248417

Edit add link
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. This is an excellent post by DrFunk. that emulatorloo has presented here
for those who will accept John Kerry's words in his rational for voting for the IWR, in a floor speech given just before the vote occured.

Excerpts from DrFunkensteins' post:

Making it clear

I am voting to give this authority to the President for one reason and one reason only: to disarm Iraq of weapons of mass destruction if we cannot accomplish that objective through new tough weapons inspections. In giving the President this authority, I expect him to fulfill the commitments he has made to the American people in recent days - to work with the United Nations Security Council to adopt a new resolution setting out "tough, immediate" inspections requirements and to "act with our allies at our side" if we have to disarm Saddam Hussein by force.

If he fails to do so, I will be the first to speak out.


No regional war, no regime change

The revised White House text, which we will vote on, limits the grant of authority to the President to the use of force against Iraq. It does not empower him to use force throughout the Persian Gulf region. It authorizes the President to use U.S. Armed Forces to defend the "national security" of the United States - a power he already has under the Constitution as Commander-in-Chief - and to enforce all "relevant" Security Council relations related to Iraq. None of these resolutions, or for that matter any of the other Security Council resolutions demanding Iraqi compliance with its international obligations, call for regime change.

As much as we decry the way he has treated his people, regime change alone is not a sufficient reason for going to war...Regime change in and of itself is not sufficient justification for going to war unless regime change is the only way to disarm Iraq of its weapons of mass destruction. As bad as he is, Saddam Hussein, the dictator, is not the cause of war. Saddam Hussein sitting in Baghdad with an arsenal of weapons of mass destruction is a different matter.


more:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=248417

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WWW Donating Member (597 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 07:42 PM
Response to Original message
12. Is this about Kerry's vote to got to war with Iraq?
Excuse me I don't know the lingo here in Gd. I don't want to venture an opinion until I am clear on this.
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NV1962 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
13. That, and apologizing for dodging the vote on omnibus & Medicare - n/t
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. It's silly to say that if the Democratic leadership needed him there
that he wouldn't go. I haven't heard a word from the leadership about this. The other candidates can't attack him for these since the Democratic leadership would immediately set them straight.

John Kerry fought the medicare bill all of the way from committee to the floor. He voted against cloture and at that point it was clear to everyone that the bill had enough votes to pass because of the margin on the cloture vote. In fact the bill passed overwhelmingly. One vote wouldn't matter. The same with the omnibus budget bill. The bill by law couldn't be amended. The votes were counted way before the vote or the majority wouldn't have brought it to the floor. I repeat. If the Democratic minority leadership thought his vote would have made any difference, they would have called him and he would have come to vote.

Those are the facts of the legislation in question. I'm sorry that some would go so far out of the view of all of the professional observors of the the vote to cast aspersions on John Kerry's voting record, or to suggest that he is the reason that these votes failed in a republican-dominated congressional body.

But hey, have your fun.
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mlawson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 08:13 PM
Response to Original message
14. My problem with him would go away, if someone could convince me
that he can beat bush. I simply can't imagine it. And please, that one poll wont do it; I've seen it before. Numbers can change in a few hours.
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LiberalTexan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
17. BINGO! YES! YES!
This is the EXACT reason why when I had a choice this summer between Kerry and Dean I picked Dean. I heard Kerry say that the war was right because we took out Saddam. Not ONCE did he say that the pResident misled or exaggerated the threat to Congress. I can't TELL YOU how pissed I was when I heard him say this. After I saw Kerry give an anti-war speech in April 2002 and after I marched in downtown Dallas and spoke at rallies against this unjust war. How anyone who is anti-war can vote for Kerry is BEYOND ME.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
18. Statement of John Kerry Regarding Bush's Announcement on Iraq
http://www.vote-smart.org/speech_detail.php?speech_id=M000003667&keyword=&phrase=&contain=

Date: 03/18/2003
I find myself angered, saddened and dismayed by the situation in which this nation finds itself tonight. As the world's sole superpower in an increasingly hostile and dangerous world, our government's obligation to protect the security of the United States and the law abiding nations of the world could not be more clear, particularly in the aftermath of September 11.

Yet the Administration's handling of the run up to war with Iraq could not possibly have been more inept or self-defeating. President Bush has clumsily and arrogantly squandered the post 9/11 support and goodwill of the entire civilized world in a manner that will make the jobs ahead of us -- both the military defeat and the rebuilding of Iraq -- decidedly more expensive in every sense of that word.

The Administration's indifference to diplomacy and the manner in which it has treated friend and foe alike over the past several months have left this country with vastly reduced influence throughout the world, made impossible the assembly of a broad, multinational effort against Saddam Hussein, and dramatically increased the costs of fulfilling our legitimate security obligations at home and around the world. At home, the Administration has given too short shrift to the needs of homeland security, ignoring the advice of their own experts, doing the job on the fly and on the cheap. To this administration, homeland security is a fine political weapon, but not high enough a priority to force a reassessment of their tax cuts to the rich and the special interests.

That said, Saddam Hussein is a tyrant, truly the personification of evil. He has launched two wars of aggression against his neighbors, perpetrated environmental disaster, purposefully destabilized an entire region of the world, murdered tens of thousands of his own citizens, flouted the will of the United Nations and the world in acquiring weapons of mass destruction, conspired to assassinate the former President of the United States, and provided harbor and support to terrorists bent on destroying us and our friends.

From that perspective, regardless of the Administration's mishandling of so much of this situation, no President can defer the national security decisions of this country to the United Nations or any other multilateral institution or individual country.

Even having botched the diplomacy, it is the duty of any President, in the final analysis, to defend this nation and dispel the security threats - threats both immediate and longer term - against it. Saddam Hussein has brought military action upon himself by refusing for twelve years to comply with the mandates of the United Nations. The brave and capable men and women of our armed forces and those who are with us will quickly, I know, remove him once and for all as a threat to his neighbors, to the world, and to his own people, and I support their doing so.

My strong personal preference would have been for the Administration -- like the Administration of George Bush, Sr. -- to have given diplomacy more time, more commitment, a real chance of success. In my estimation, giving the world thirty additional days for additional real multilateral coalition building -- a real summit, not a five hour flyby with most of the world's powers excluded -- would have been prudent and no impediment to our military situation, an assessment with which our top military brass apparently agree. Unfortunately, that is an option that has been disregarded by President Bush.

In the colloquial, we are where we are. It will take years to repair the needless damage done by this Administration, damage to our international standing and moral leadership, to traditional and time-tested alliances, to our relations with the Arab world, ultimately to ourselves. Let's finish the process we began twelve years ago of disarming Saddam and ridding the world of this menace that. Let's begin to rebuild our sense of national unity. Let's begin the work of building a stronger, safer world, of rebuilding alliances, and staying the course of long term involvement the Middle East in order to reclaim our rightful place of respect in the world order.




Speaker: Senator Thomas 'Tom' Harkin (IA)
Title: Congressional Budget for the US Government for Fiscal Year 2004 - Iraq
Location: Washington, DC
Date: 03/18/2003
CONGRESSIONAL BUDGET FOR THE U.S. GOVERNMENT FOR FISCAL YEAR 2004
http://www.vote-smart.org/speech_detail.php?speech_id=M000014345&keyword=&phrase=&contain=


Is war justified? I have absolute confidence in the men and women of our Armed Forces. Faced with war, they will win, and will do so with courage, discipline, and skill. But even with our overwhelming strength, even assured of victory, war is a terrible prospect. Thousands of innocent people will die. Iraq will be left in chaos. We will be left to occupy a country most likely for years, left with the responsibility on our taxpayers of rebuilding it.

America has always been reluctant to engage in war. And this will be the first war ever in which we have invaded where there has not been an imminent threat.

I believe there are at least four tests that must be met before we go to war. First, we must face an imminent threat. That has not been shown. Could Saddam be a threat down the line sometime? Perhaps. But we could contain him with inspections, and not just a handful but 500 or 1,000 inspectors—there is no limit on how many inspectors we could have; we could put in 1,000 inspectors. Would that cost more money? Sure. A lot less than a war.

So we must face an imminent threat, and that has not been shown.

Secondly, war should be the last resort, not the first. Even if a threat is demonstrated, we should launch a war only after we have exhausted all reasonable alternatives, as we required in the resolution last fall. In this case, we clearly have not.

Third, we must have substantial support among our allies and work with the United Nations. The agreements Saddam Hussein has violated are with the U.N. He didn't make those agreements with the United States, he made them with the United Nations. So since it is not a bilateral problem, it is a multilateral problem, we should be working through the United Nations. There is no doubt we can win a war against Iraq on our own—no doubt about that—but we are going to need the other nations to help rebuild Iraq after the war.

Finally, before we go to war, the fourth thing we need is a full debate in the Congress. Thus, I applaud Senator Byrd and Senator Kennedy for their resolutions to move the debate forward. But now the clock has run out. I can't for the life of me understand, why the British House of Commons can have a full day of debate today on whether or not to pass a resolution to go to war, but the U.S. Congress can't.

I think back to our own Revolution which gave us the power. It is in the Constitution of the United States that only Congress has the power to declare war. And there can be no mistake about it. This is not an intervention. This is not military police activity. This is not defending ourselves against an imminent threat. This is an invasion and a full-scale war against a country.

I believe the Congress, and only the Congress, has the right to do that, and we have not even had the debate. It is time we have the debate.

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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-01-04 09:36 PM
Response to Original message
20. Well, you see, there's an explanation for that
-- Waxman and Harkin are honorable men.
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