On MTP Dean said Kerry was "on the take"...does he plan to file charges

[blm]

based on this accusation? I think accusing a Senator publically of being "on the take" for special interests is very serious.

Any idea when Dean will file legal charges against Kerry?

[girl gone mad]

1. What's the law against being..

"on the take" applicable to Kerry at the time in question?

[blm]

4. ask Dean. He is the accuser.

.

[girl gone mad]

23. Point being..

I don't think he acted illegally or Dean implied he acted illegally.

Unethically, now that's a different story. Fortunately for Kerry, unethical doesn't always equal illegal.

[deutsey]

2. Gosh, one can hope...

:evilgrin:

[mikehiggins]

3. Dean did well for himself on MTP today.

I especially liked his wrapping himself in the mantle of Harry Truman, who is my personal political idol.

Looking at the Howard Dean on the air today I can see why he has come so far as he has.

And he's going to stay in for so long as it is possible and makes sense. He isn't going to drop out until Kerry gets enough delegates to win the thing in Boston.

That's the only way he has a shot, and that's what he should do.

I hope he has the spine to do it.

On the other hand, what else does he have on his calendar anyway?

[zulchzulu]

22. If doing well means lying and attacking, yeah, he did really well

Dean is done.

[Abigail147]

41. Oh yeah, let's pretend.

It's a wonderful day in the neighborhood. Gee whiz, gee willikers. Dean is straight talker. That does not make him negative. It makes him honest. You wish he was done. Well he ain't.

[BruinAlum]

5. There was a time I looked to Dean seriously as a candidate

I still like many of the issues he stands for but, these dirty campaign tactics are a real turnoff. Negative tactics hurt him in Iowa - when is he going to learn?

This and lashing out at other Democratic candidates and calling them Republicans sound like the desperate cries of a loser. I truly hoped, and even thought he would do better. He blew it. I feel for his supporter who pinned so much of their hopes, blood, sweat and tears into him only to see him tank so quickly like this.

[deutsey]

7. Uh huh.

That ain't how I see it (after all, who smeared whom with the Osama ad in Iowa? Or who did the dirty trick of robocalling voters at 4 am claiming to be from the Dean campaign?), but, differences in opinion are the lifeblood of DU.

Welcome! :hi:

[cindyw]

36. Kerry did not do that. You have no proof.n/t

[Abigail147]

39. Where you from?

Mayberry. Get real. Iowa is not representative of any other state but Iowa.

[DemBones DemBones]

6. Would Dean be committing slander or libel?

Eventually, someone will clean Howard's clock, bet on it.

[Old and In the Way]

8. Hey blm-

think Dean posts here on the DU?

My opinion of Dean is slipping in proportion to his escalating, desperate attacks as his campaign slides into obscurity.

[Abigail147]

40. Not sure about Dean, but I know Kerry's minions post endlessly

trying to emulate a grass roots support that does not exist.

[oasis]

44. Are you in a position to know the extent of Kerry's grass roots support?

[JNelson6563]

46. I know of it here in Michigan

There is none. Plenty of half-hearted support but no grassroots. Until a week of so ago there was no attention paid here. Then the Kerry campaign called our local Dem party to see if Dean was sending staff. After I told them "yes" they decided to send a staffer. Apparently she spends a lot of her time sleeping and shopping.

Julie

[Capn Sunshine]

9. I suppose one "takes" lobbyist money without violating the "letter"

of the law. Politically, is the file charges or don't mention it thought process going to be applicable to all of Kerys activities? Because voting with special interests is legal, just not what I want in a presidential candidate of the democratic party.

And taking 90% of your donations not from private citizens is legal, but not what I want to see.

Can you see where this is leading or do I paint a picture now?

[blm]

11. Nope. But those numbers were lumped together from individual donors

over a 19 year period. Individual donors, mostly maxed at $1000 each. Kerry was "on the take" for $1000?

Let's see Dean's stats based on the exact same formula used for Kerry.

[Metrix]

12. Dean gets at least $2.7 million from unions

From salon.com:
"Dean is drawing heavy financial support from two large labor unions. The American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees' political action committee has spent more than $1.7 million on polling, ads and get-out-the-vote efforts. A Service Employees International Union PAC has spent close to $1 million."

[JohnOneillsMemory]

14. Like every pol with juice, Kerry has taken bux. Has it affected his votes?

That's the crucial element of corruption charges. We can see that everything this cabal in the WH does is bought and paid for.

Is that also true of our dem candidates?

Of course Dean is playing the outsider vs insider game.
Are his charges warranted based on actions, not just incomes?

Just asking...

[mzmolly]

10. I dont think there is a law against pretending you are going to go after

special interests while taking money from them. It's just hypocrisy is all...

[jobycom]

13. Why? Dean's pulling himself out of the race with that attitude.

That's been why I couldn't get behind Dean all along. He has no self-control when he speaks. He blurts out what he wants, rambles around a subject (much like me), and doesn't strike me as level-headed. If he's accusing Kerry of being on the take without a clear documented legal dossier behind him, he's just digging down further. Kerry wouldn't need to file charges, he's punishing Dean by resigning him to Jerry Brown status.

Dean campaigns like Jerry Brown. That'll win you a governorship, maybe, but not the presidency. He might fire up some of his supporters who just want to hear insults hurled, but he doesn't strengthen his case any.

[stickdog]

16. Isn't it again time for a regular, intelligent, well-meaning person

supported and funded by average, middle class Americans to be the POTUS once again?

Why the sudden infatuation with safe, boring, highly nuanced politician's politicians? Is it suddenly trendy to always practice artful prudence and expedience?

[deutsey]

15. Here's a link to the full transcript

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4112959/

SNIP
I was so angry when I read that article after John Kerry had the nerve--you know, here's what's happening in this campaign. Look, we came out with a very strong message. We shot to the top. All the other candidates took up our message. I thinks that's fine. Imitations is the sincerest form of flattery and it's actually great for the Democratic Party that we're starting to get some backbone again.

Then I come to find out that John Kerry has been running around Iowa and New Hampshire and telling all these Americans that he's going to get the special interests, and who was on the take with the special interests? Not only just got him some special interest money--look, we all have special interest money. I'm sure if you went through my campaign, you'd find--there's people in special interests, lobbyists, who have given me money and so forth. The senator with the most special interest money over the last 15 years is John Kerry who's just been running around telling all Americans how he's going to get the special interests...

SNIP

It looks as if Dean, whether rightly or wrongly, is referring to this article:

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0130-02.htm

[blm]

20. Kerry's15 yrs (89-03) compared to Gore's 3 yrs (89-92) as Senator and

look at the totals.

How did Gore get so much of that money in so short a time?

Would Dean say that Gore is 4x more on the take than Kerry?

[Voltaire99]

17. Nice to see Dean on the offensive

When Dean was on top, Kerry was happyt to dish it out. Now that the tables are reversed, will see if he can take it.

Whether or not he can win the nomination with the odds so stacked against him, the best gift Dean can give the party now is a thorough debunking of Kerry.

[bigtree]

18. How about the gift of open records?

John Kerry Releases Fundraiser Names in Effort to Improve Transparency
Challenges Democratic Rivals to Follow His Lead
October 21, 2003
http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/releases/pr_2003_1021b.html


John Kerry's donor list:
http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/donors.pdf

[Cuban_Liberal]

19. If the shoe fits.

I'm deeply disturbed to find this out about Sen. Kerry, and I think Dr. Dean may well have hit the nail on the head. I want a plain, simply, non-nuanced explanation of Sen. Kerry's dubious 'honor' of being #1 over the last 15 years, and not his simple 'blow it off/the dog ate my homework' stuff he's puting out now.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

21. No. He plans to later clarify what he really meant

[Capn Sunshine]

24. Todays Washington Post already did, Dean was referencing THAT

Yesterday, the Washington Post reported U.S. Senator Kerry has collected more money from special interest lobbyists than any other U.S. Senator in the last 15 years. Today Newsweek reports Kerry met with and personally corresponded with Johnny Chung who later pleaded guilty to illegally funneling money to Kerry's campaign. The Associated Press uncovered today Kerry's tax-exempt political
committee gathered donations from groups with direct interests before Kerry's Senate committee.

In response to this news Governor Dean issued the following statement:

"I have said from the beginning this election is about power. It is about who owns our government and who runs it, the powerful special interests protecting the status quo or ordinary Americans demanding change? This weekend we have learned which side John Kerry is most comfortable with, the corporate special interests who have funded his presidential and senate campaigns -- the same special interests he is now vowing to fight against.

"How can John Kerry tell the American people he will fight for real change and an honest break from the special interests that run our government, when it's clear that the special interests have sponsored his career?

"President Bush has proven to the American people that an administration beholden to the special interests will never work for ordinary people.

"The American people want change in Washington. This November they have the power to make that change. Over the coming weeks the American people have a choice between a movement to take our country back from the corporate special interests and a creature of the comfort and convenience special interest contributions provide."

[blm]

26. Then Dean won't mind revealing all his donations over his career based on

the same formula used to mislead people about Kerry's individual donations over a 19 year period.

Please post since I am sure Dean is looking forward to equal comparisons.

[Padraig18]

27. Talk to the WP, not Dean.

THEY brought it up, blm.

[blm]

32. Dean brought it up a couple days ago and his supporters here

have been hawking it for the last few days from other sources all using the same info.

So....they should come clean and put out the data for Dean using the EXACT SAME FORMULA if they really want an honest comparison.

I would bet that is NOT what they want.

[vision]

33. There is also Reynold's piece on CNBC

Reynolds: Kerry's tough talk targets businesses
advertisement

But the Democratic frontrunner may simply be trying to entice activists during the primaries. Securities firms are big backers of his campaign

http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/CNBCTV/Articles/TVReports/P73289.asp

[NNN0LHI]

25. This is politics blm. The candidates are supposed to talk shit

There won't be no charges filed.

Don

[TheDonkey]

28. talk shit then, not make up shit like the Doctor is doing recently

Soon he'll charge Clinton, Santa Clause, and FDR were republicans.

[NNN0LHI]

29. Come on now. Do you think Roves minions are going to play nice?

Kerry is going to have to be very good at defending himself until November. If he can't do a good job at it I don't want him as the nominee. I think he will do just fine. This is just practice before the big show.

Don

[Padraig18]

30. What has he 'made up', specifically?

eom

[George_Bonanza]

31. Dean stoops to new low

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=615&ncid=2043&e=1&u=/nm/20040201/pl_nm/campaign_dean_botox_dc

[flpoljunkie]

34. Kerry behind Dean in health care & communications & electronics donations

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0130-02.htm

This election cycle, Kerry took $531,251 from the health care industry, putting him among the top four recipients of such money – just behind President Bush and Democratic presidential contenders Howard Dean of Vermont and Sen. Joe Lieberman of Connecticut.

He was among the top three recipients – behind Bush and Dean – in the $883,950 he took from the communications and electronics industry.

It is silly for Dean to try this tactic when he can so easily be called on it.

[NNN0LHI]

35. He is trying to get Kerry to go negative.

Don't think Kerry will fall for it? He has no need to negative at this point.

Don

[MoonRiver]

37. Dean does OK until he decides to hit below the belt with innuendo & spin.

It inevitably just hurts him, and diminishes his otherwise great message. I'm totally turned off to him because of this. I don't think I'm alone.

[RetroLounge]

38. What? Is Dean the Atty. General now?

Didn't know Doctors can "file charges."

But thanks for enlightening me with your knowledge of the law...

[Zech Marquis]

42. same old pattern from Dean

the elderly voter in Iowa asked him to play nice, Dean bites his head off
calls the other candidates "republicans"
now saying Senator Kerry is "on the take", while he's NOT going to win a single primary this week, or next, or the weeks thereafter...all with NO wins,no creditibilty, and the constant "yeaaarrgghhh" soundbite runnng 24/7.


From a promising campaign to a bad joke, to now name calling and slandering. Can you iagine what Karl Rove would have done with him in the GE?

[markus]

43. Dean's issue and the problem: it's *legal* to be on the take in D.C.

Kerry is trying to co-opt Dean's message on special interest influence in DC, and he's going it in a glass house.

Based on the media coming out this week (WP, etc. cited above) it was a bad move on Kerry's part, and he may have to pay for it.

Based on the panic among Kerry's supporters here, I have to wonder if they and their candidate have what it takes to get to November and win.

Kerry is comfort food for uncertain Democrats, and like a lot of comfort food, reading the contents label closely tends to spoil the effect.

[dd123]

45. Hit the nail on the head...

What John Kerry has been doing may not be illegal...however I feel it is unethical.

[blm]

47. Too bad that's NOT true. Kerry never took a dime from special interest pac

or corporate pacs.

Dean lumped together 19 years of INDIVIDUAL donations to make his charge.

Kerry has been railing against pac money and corporate donations for his ENTIRE time in Congress. He didn't just start because Dean the corporatist just jumped on the bandwagon with his campaign year rhetoric.

Dean lies and some people buy it. Thankfully, most Dems do not.