Attacking Voter as "Sheep" is Hypocrisy! It's Denying Facts of Campaigns

[WiseMen]

There is now a virulent and persistently harsh tendency on the board to criticize Democratic voters around the country for being “like sheep,” being the puppets of “media whores” and “jumping on the bandwagon,” because of the increasing support for John Kerry. This has to stop.

When public opinion polls prior to any voting showed Governor Dean and Wesley Clark leading in many states supporter in this board lauded them as showing the strength Dean’s or Clark’s candidacies or their chances against Bush.

Now the polls show voter “ignorance” of the positions, and character or Kerry.

When Dean trailed Bush in head-to-heads by 20%, it was POSITIVELY compared with Clinton/Bush.

Now Kerry leads Bush in head-to-head by 3%, it is based on “name recognition” and it is too early to be meaningful.

Well, I respectfully suggest that the hypocrisy stinks to high heaven.

]

Public Opinion is, as always, fairly shallow and malleable, but it is certainly now based on much more information than a month ago. There has now been at least 2 weeks of 24/7 extensive nation-wide media coverage on candidates positions and their campaigning in the weeks prior to the voting in the Iowa caucus and New Hampshire primary.

Clark supporters could be excused some of the carping, because their man skipped Iowa and missed out on some media. Dean supporters have no such excuse. Prior to the weeks just before Iowa, the vast majority of media and grass-roots activity was focused on the Howard Dean candidacy. This is undeniable.

Instead of criticizing the electorate for following the lead of Iowa and New Hampshire, Dean supporters should look at how much time, money and passion was spent in Iowa and New Hampshire on behalf of the Dean candidacy.

Friends, you need to evaluate what all that effort, plus $40 million and 5 times as much free media as any other candidate, has produced (our not produced), and why.

The problem is surely not in the Dean campaign which has been admired by all.

It does not lie in some malevolent Kerry campaign conspiracy either.

I respectfully suggest that the problem lies elsewhere.


In any event, lets remember that Kerry’s early victories came against all odds; against the big dollars; against the major endorsements; against on the ground organizational support; against the almost unanimous predictions of the pundits.

Let’s not blame the people, for the people’s choice.

[OhioStateProgressive]

1. well

when a known percentage of people are very unintelligent, and in a society where we know only a limited amount are truly gifted, yes I think it is very valid to call bandwagoneers "sheep"

[funky_bug]

3. And when democrats in my office

say, "I didn't even know Kerry was running, but he sure is doing well, so I'll probably vote for him..." then I'll stop using the term "sheeples."

It's damned frustrating that guy can come out of nowhere and all of a sudden be considered the next best thing to come along since white bread.

We have several fine candidates that all deserve recognition, but we have a lot of complacent voters who don't take the time to research them.

[OhioStateProgressive]

6. I agree

but it should be no shock...this is America, where people watch reality tv, and shop at wal mart

paying attention to politics would take thought and knowledge, and these things aren't "cool" nowadays

[jmaier]

2. When someone goes from

barely visible in polling numbers to a strong front-runner without doing any substantive campaigning in the states where the rise is occuring or re-positioning of their candidacy, I think it's pretty fair to say voters jump on front-runner bandwagons without actually looking at the candidates in any depth.

This is true when Dean jumped to a huge national lead then started leaping in all the state polls before a vote was cast and it's true for Kerry now as well.

This doesn't take anything away from his victories, they were admirable and well-earned but facts is facts. People are running toward Kerry because he won in IA and NH not because they had any strong view about him based upon their own introspection.

But this phenom is TRUE in all primary races and isn't unique to '04.

[WiseMen]

8. CNN and C-Span both suggest there were NATIONAL audiences for

coverage in Iowa. The same may have applied to NH, I don't remember any comment on it.

However, every single person I know followed some of the campaign coverage over the last 3 weeks, and I don't live in Iowa and New Hampshire.

There is certainly much more attention to information in the candidate over the last month that the months before when many, including the pudits, were treating the public opinion numbers as fairly stable.

[funky_bug]

11. Other than ONE co-worker, and my husband

I don't know anyone who watched any of the debates. I had one co-worker who watched it, and said, "That Dennis Kucinich... he's kind of adorable, huh?" I asked her about Kerry (who she said the day before that she would probably vote for because he's doing so well) and she said, "Oh yeah... he was the tall one, right?"

[sandnsea]

4. Momentum is in play

That actually is a truth. I read a couple of quotes from voters yesterday; they "want to vote for the winner." Honestly, I don't even know what kind of thinking that is or what it means. I want to vote for the person I think should be President, John Kerry; OR the person who best reflects my personal beliefs, Dennis Kucinich. That probably confuses people, but oh well. Voting with the winner??? I don't even get that.

[Raya]

12. Dean Lost the MO under scrutiny. Kerry fought to get the Big MO

[DebJ]

when the voters themselves stop saying they vote for the front runner

and instead vote based on issues, then we can consider that.

[WiseMen]

10. What about in Iowa?

[NashVegas]

5. Could Someone Tell Me

How this supposed 'sheeple' tag differs from, say, "Kool-aid drinkers?"

Pot. Kettle. Black.

[OhioStateProgressive]

7. I agree with you too

I agree the same sheep phenomenom was in play with Dean's early rise and support

[ibegurpard]

14. Of course it was.

And the same phenomenon could just as easily turn on Kerry.

[Raya]

16. Your are right. Dean is counting on it in a couple weeks

[WiseMen]

9. I have never referred to anyone as "Kool-aid drinkers" nor see such myself

But that is beside the point. Winning Iowa and NH and gaining acceptability across the states, thereby, was the Dean/Trippi strategy -- Trippi said the same on CNN yesterday.

Public Opinion can be manufactured. But what has happened is counter intuitive. Kerry was fighting against a manufactured consent and broke through despite the full press on the media against his
candidacy.

[NashVegas]

13. Possibly Because

I think using the term "kool-aid" in reference to a candidate's supporters on this board has been banned due to such abuse (my posts mentioning this may be subject to deletion themselves. Not sure, but I'll take the risk). You don't have a 'star' so can't do a search, but if you could you'd find plenty.

FYI, I've not referred to anyone as 'sheeple' myself.

What 'manufactured consent' are you speaking of? Surely not Kerry's IWR vote.

[MMT]

17. "Public Opinion can be manufactured."

And there you have the problem in a nutshell.

[NashVegas]

23. I Was Looking for Something More Specific

..

[Nazgul35]

20. In Iowa...

no such event happened anywhere else....

Kerry was struggling to hold on to his momentum lead in NH against Dean, Clark Edwards and Lieberman towards the end....

Until we see the polling data which explains what was going on in NH, we don't really know what happened there...

But to suggest that going from 5% to 40% in less than a week without ever appearing in a state or running a commercial is more evidence of people deciding based on their "vote for a winner" tack....

Political Science shows that the overwhelming number of votes are in fact uninformed about the policies of the candidates, and base their decisions on such things as party ID (not applicable here -- except for Joe maybe >:>), perceived personal and political characteristics, likability, etc.....

[corporatewhore]

15. if it makes you feel better i have called dean clarkAND kerry supporters

sheep (indirectly) forsupporting and thinking and that they are liberal progressive and offer real change

[Sensitivity]

31. Hey, I think it is Dean supporter's most resistant to Kerry roundup

[CWebster]

18. Depends on how much baggage they allow Kerry to tote, untested.

The Repukes could hold their fire until the Dems all jump on board and then they will empty with both barrels. Then all the swing voters will swing again since that is what they do, and the Democratic wing of the Democratic party won't exactly be rallying to Kerry's defense seeing his dirty tricks, sleazy appropriation of Dean's message and insider connections controlling the soundbites.

[Hoppin_Mad]

19. How abour 'lemmings' ? Is 'lemmings' more palatable to you ? ;-)

[WiseMen]

21. 'lemmings' ? I thought that was Clark supporter name for some others here

[Hep]

22. Sheep don't get involved early on.

They get involved at the last minute and generally are too afraid of work to stick out their necks for the person asking something of them. Hence, Kerry's wins.

Don't worry, it is the fault of the Dean supporter who actually thought people would be willing to put their iron in the fire. We're not done trying though.

[WiseMen]

24. Trippi Said Dean was following the Win Iowa, NH, then All States Fold

How is that different from what is happening with Kerry: Winning is not everything, but it can do a lot to certify a candidate and his message.

[Hep]

25. Yeah, for the sheep.

Winning only certifies the candidate for those who lack the ability to make their choices based on legitimate information. Whether it happened to Dean Kerry or LaRouche, that fact doesn't change.

We in the Dean campaign have been relying on the people's ability to understand our message. It turns out they prefer not to have their boat rocked. So far.

And all along I've been saying what our boats NEEDS is a huge rocking.

What trippi said supports my point.

[Raya]

26. Look at Kerry's history: War Hero, Protester, Enemy of the State

Is he your "safe" bet. Safe bet is lieberman, Gephardt, Edwards, Clark -- let's at least be honest.

[Hep]

27. You fail to distinguish Kerry from Edwards, Lieberman and Clark

which isn't surprising. War hero, protestor who voted for War. Woo freaking Hoo.

Kerry falls right in line with those guys. Safe bets, mortgaging true change in our party for another four years, assuming we have a party in four years. If it's up to Kerry, it won't matter much.

[cindyw]

28. I say, As long as the "sheeple" will "flock" our way in the GE then we

can "moooove" Bush out of the White House. That would be fine with me.

[stickdog]

29. What would Jesus say?

"Forgive them, Father, ... "

[SeattleRob]

30. I agree with the sheeple tag.

Of course it is not representative of everyone, but there are a lot of people that have been manipulated by the media. In a poll taken at the end of January by Newsweek, 49% of those polled still believe that Saddam was involved in 9/11. 49%!!! That is an example of how effective the lies and manipulation can be.

The issue of us being lead astray by the media goes very deep. It is a complex issue. In my opinion there is a "Collective Denial" in America. When I was young, I was taught about George Washington cutting down the cherry tree (I cannot tell a lie) and Abe Lincoln walking a couple miles to return a some pennies. As American citizens, we want to believe our government. Collectively, we have a lot of ourselves invested in the myth of America believing in spreading freedom throughout the world. We want to believe people like Tom Brokaw and Peter Jennings. Beneath the surface, there are a lot of really bad things that have been done by our government. I know a lot of good people, who really don't want to know about some of the crappy things we've done around the world.

I also believe that this "sheeple" effect was big in the decline of Dr Dean's poll numbers. There were about 4 months of negative attacks against Dean which culminated with the Iowa speech. There were many inaccurate things said about Dean. (eg. having a temper, being a loose cannon) For example, his comment about Saudi Arabia and 9/11 was taken out of context. What he said was perfectly logical - He said that because Bush is not being open with the investigations, people are believe theories, such as the Saudi theory, which he immediately said he didn't believe. The press took the snippet they wanted and threw it out there. Dean was also absolutely correct when he said we were not safer since we capture Saddam. (January was the bloddies month of the war in Iraq.)

This is a complex issue. I think our only chance of change will be when a majority of people recognize that our main news sources routinely spew out propaganda and misinformation.


check out www.thedailyhowler.com This site documents the misinformation.

[SeattleRob]

32. Food for thought on this issue

http://atrios.blogspot.com/2004_02_01_atrios_archive.html#107574342407674686


From today's Atrios:

4/27/1976

Reader chuco wrote in about this little article . Nexis didn't have the entire original, but an abbreviated abstract.



Sen Select Com on Apr 26 discloses that CIA plans to continue to employ as agents more than 25 journalists or other reprs of Amer news orgns. Says those persons are not covered by public pledge made in Feb by CIA Dir George Bush that agency would stop hiring correspondents 'accredited' by Amer publications and other news orgns. Com staff member repts that many of individuals were in exec positions at Amer news orgns. Panel recommends enactment of law precluding agency's 'operational use' of any person regularly involved in writing, editing or setting policy for US news orgns. Says it is concerned that use of Amer journalists and media orgns for clandestine operations is threat to press integrity. Rept cites instances in which efforts of CIA agents acting abroad as journalists were printed in domestic publications. Says it is aware other countries made use of 'internatl media' for propaganda and that US public is not insulated from such efforts. Cites examples of work by journalist agents including: book about China written covertly by agent which was revd in NY Times by another agent. Agency paid $170,000 a yr for publication of magazine in S Vietnam in '74 and '75. 2 news services maintained by CIA in Eur were subscribed to by major Amer newspapers. Penkovsky Papers, book purported to be based on repts of executed Soviet spy, was actually written by CIA agents. Employment of news orgns and publishing houses by CIA appears to have been reduced in recent yrs. Com described catagories of journalists who have worked as agents: staff members of gen circulation Amer news orgns. Com said it had found only 2 individuals in this category and that their relationship with agency was being ended under Bush's Feb directive. Staff members of limited-circulation Amer publications. Com reptd that it had found fewer than 10 persons now in this category. Freelance writers, part-time stringers for newspapers, magazines and news agencies, propaganda writers and employes of Amer publishing houses. Com says this is largest category. Journalists with whom CIA makes occasional, informal contact during which information is exchd or verified (M).

[Raya]

33. Iowa and NH was the first time most Voter got much info on Kerry

Both surveys and focus groups showed that Kerry had little more than name recognition by most voters prior to Iowa. People and much more info on Dean and to a lesser degree Clark.

Even with the economy growing again, the majority is seing Kerry as a real presidential option. The majority never saw Dean as such.

[Ugnmoose]

34. Baaaah, Baaaah

Watch them follow the herd. If the media says he is popular so be it that's good enough. Most people are lazy and want to be told for whom they should cast their vote. If people truly took this as a personal responsibility of great importance they would devote more effort to getting the facts instead of listening to the crap thrown at them by the whores or doing what their friends, relatives and colleagues are doing.

[WiseMen]

35. Guess Dean is Counting on that with baseless charges he is spreading