Howard Dean's Meet the Press interview has converted me.

[anti-NAFTA]

I was amazed by his performance on Meet the Press today. He refuted the questions without spinning and has said that his trade policy would make Walmart prices double. That last bit really won me over (see my DU screen name). It was really a great interview. I can't praise it enough.

Of course we'll probably be hearing sound bytes used against him just like the scream, but I liked it a lot and I also liked the scream.

[slinkerwink]

1. welcome to the Dean campaign!!!!

:hi:

[HFishbine]

2. Terrific!

Welcome aboard!

[NewHampster]

3. Woo Hoo

Welcome

[janx]

4. Good for you!

I liked the Scream also, and I hated the arrogant pundits who tried to tell me that I shouldn't like it.

[anti-NAFTA]

10. I initially thought

the scream would re-energize his supporters and remind them of the days when he was the underdog. But when the media says, "This is a bad thing" then it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[janx]

12. Yes it does. Such a shame, too.

The media have so very much power as to tell us how to interpret things. The situation is out of control!

We could all benefit--especially high school kids--on real education regarding the media. Much of the ratings-driven media now is nothing but a pile of tabloid junk.

[NashVegas]

5. Do You Have a Crash Helmet?

You made need it when the inevitable pile-on comes down.

Else: welcome aboard.

[Mass_Liberal]

6. YAY!!!

That is greatly encouraging. First conversion I've seen. Ever. Welcome aboard the great Deanship, matey! :bounce: :toast: :bounce:

[liberalnurse]

7. The man has strength and vision for America.

He did not waiver, he did not blink.....Sensational if I do say myself.

[Lugnut]

8. Cool!

Welcome aboard. :hi:

[DebJ]

9. Dean's MTP appearance made some California Democrats who

support candidates other than Dean nervous. They said that they hoped he doesn't speak like that all the time. As I told a Republican coworker, you can coach someone into speaking better in public, but can you coach someone into being truthful and into acting in the best interests of the majority in this country? Can you coach cowards (in Congress) who roll over and play dead for Bush to suddenly have guts to do what is right for the country, instead of what is politically expedient at the moment? Dean is honest and committed and not afraid to speak his views. His policies are great.

[cthrumatrix]

38. the truth does make people nervous.... Dean is my man..warts and all

he has the courage to stand up to what is wrong and not promise our future away

[baby_bear]

11. He was never cowed by Russert

Russert never had the upper hand the whole hour. Every time he tried to spin something against Dean, Dean turned it around. He laughed at himself when appropriate and told the truth and admitted that the truth isn't always pleasant.

I thought it was great. And I'm a fence-sitter, among the Dems right now. Dean definitely went up a few notches in my mind this morning.

s_m

[Hoppin_Mad]

13. Welcome to Dean ! "We've just BEGUN to fight" ! -nt-

[Atman]

14. Gotta admit, MTP probably did it for me, too.

I was amazed. He didn't back down, without appearing rude or arrogant. His answer about the tax "increases" was great..."most people would be willing to pay what they paid under Clinton if they could have Clinton's economy." There was one answer that made me you "yipes! He shouldn't have said that!" but I can't even remember what it was now, so it must not have been too severe. Dean seems to be the man. Kerry seems to have too many ties to the DC establishment.

[janx]

15. Excellent!

:hi:

[dorktv]

Dean has the magic. Welcome to the club!

[Lisa0825]

16. Welcome Aboard!!!:-)

I also LOVED the scream!!! I could barely hear it at the rally, but when I saw the video of it, I laughed, and cheered all over again! I couldn't believe the negativity around it. But I still love it, and I have sent a few of the music mixes of it around to non-Dean friends, and they all think it is good too. They didn't buy the media line about it.

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!! :-D

[Rose Siding]

17. He's tough, isn't he?

Welcome aboard :hi:

[bigtree]

18. his trade policy would make Walmart prices double

Wal-Mart is not the only company where consumers benefit from lower priced consumer goods. Other companies that aren't retail will also see higher prices for foreign goods under his scheme. How does that help the American consumer?

Who is Howard Dean to say that I should pay more to raise the wages of someone overseas? The American consumer needs cheaper priced goods today. Not some dubious promise that their boats will rise later.

Who actually believes that higher prices on goods is a plus?

[OhioStateProgressive]

20. well

the American consumer has no more rights than a foreign worker

all equal, policy needs to correct it

what is correct is not always cheap

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[uhhuh]

23. I do

Higher priced goods are only a problem when you have lower paid workers.
There are a lot of people who are losing jobs daily to support Walmart's low, low prices. There are a lot of companies that are able to provide lower prices because they continue to export jobs.
It doesn't matter if a car was being sold for a dollar if you don't have that dollar.
If wages increase with or ahead of prices, higher prices don't hurt anyone.
If we don't raise the wages of people overseas, we will continue to see the jobs leave until companies feel it doesn't affect their bottom line to keep the jobs here. The more they are paid elsewhere, the less likely it is for the jobs to be exported there.
The American consumer needs cheaper prices today because their wages have been eliminated or depressed by the chimp's policies. Americans have to spend more to provide themselves or their families with essetials like health care, fuel costs, food, etc. These costs are on the rise. Dr. Dean has good plans to address these things. He is honest enough to say that it isn't a quick and easy solution.
If you are a junkie, you don't think beyond the next fix.
"I need cheap stuff now." doesn't put food on the table when the pressure to lower prices puts everybody's job in danger.
Dr. Dean is telling the people the truth. If you want to save American jobs, you have to pay for them to stay here.
It won't happen overnight, but ultimately, a moderate increase in prices will save more than it hurts.

[Eloriel]

41. Excellent analysis

and a great response.

[bloom]

26. I don't think the world is going to keep going the way it has been

with American workers getting paid a LOT more than people in other countries and yet being able to buy goods really cheap.

Sure it makes it easy for Americans to buy stuff. Does it make sense?
(I think most people could live with less).

With companies all shipping jobs overseas it isn't sustainable.



It is quite possible in my mind that there could be a huge collapse.

Some wages here have been quite unbelievable to me. $20./hr to make cigarettes in a factory. And professionals who can charge what they charge because factory workers can afford their services. If there are no jobs on the bottom - how will those people pay rent to other people? How will those people pay their accountants? And on and on.

Can we force companies to pay $20+/hr to someone to make cigarettes who can pay someone $.10/hr (that is 10cents) somewhere else?

And professional engineers and accountants are being paid $2.50./hr. in India for US companies. Even State governments are outsourcing jobs overseas.

Dean's solution to raise wages/standards worldwide seems like the only reasonable answer I've heard.

What is Bush doing?

What do you have in mind?



on edit: clarity

[progressivebydesign]

27. It levels the playing field..

our jobs and benefits disappear because we are addicted to rampant consumerism.. and demand cheap things to buy.. constantly. People shop as a hobby now.. it's a social event. Americans have a sickness... it's consumerism gone wild.


There are fascinating books and studies on the over-production, creation of advertising to peddle the goods, and our obsession now with buying things. Dean's point is to level the playing field so that we cannot buy $6.00 shoes made by a child in another country, who makes .50 cents a day. The whole premise is theoretically brilliant.. but will require other changes to make it work. The jobs need to come back, they need to pay, and Americans need to stop shopping recreationally.

[PVnRT]

28. Yeah

Why should we care about the rights of foreign workers? Or why care about American companies shipping jobs overseas? All that matters is that we can buy cheap shit! Yay!

[salin]

33. hey jack

"I got mine..." :eyes:

Btw, notice what noone ever says... remember a couple of years ago when GE laid off more than a thousand workers in B-ton... because they said the labor on the 'energy efficient' refrigerators cost such that they made them 'uncompetitive.' So after a year of threats to the union and city (lower our costs by a million bucks or we will take our jobs and leave)... and winning those concessions... gee, they had to leave anyway.

But here is what noone ever mentions... the prices of the refrigerators didn't go down.

GE - who was very profitable (look at Jack Welch's severance package from the same time... that = excess revenues...) - didn't lower costs to lower goods prices in order to be competitive... they lowered costs... kept their prices the same (oops - guess now the prices are suddenly competitive)... and extracted larger profits.

Yep the "I got mine" sentiments are alive and well here... *sigh*

[Eloriel]

42. Another excellent analysis. And here's a bit more

I'm old enough to remember back in the 1970s when personal computers were first available (Apple stores opened). Computerization and roboticization were hot topics of conversation back then, and unions and others were very concerned about the effect on their workers.

I thought at the time that their thinking in fighting computerization as they wanted to fight it was misguided: there was no way to stop computers, to stop this coming change (and boy do I wish I'd have invested in a few Apple stocks back then, IBM too!!). I thought that instead they needed to get ahed of the curve.

Well, corporations and their lobbyists promised unions and other American workers that computers would provide so much increased productivity that the future held the promise of a virtual leisure class for everyone -- better pay, 3-day work weeks, etc.

Guess what they did with their productivity? Did they spread it around and give us that leisure society? Hell no. They appropriated it as increased profits for themselves. We got royally screwed.

Looking back, it points out how short-sighted unions really were to fight computerization instead of jumping in full force and getting control of what was happening. Of course, it's not like Labor's emasculation and marginalization was all their fault. They had plenty of help from the Reagan-Bush admins, and Clinton wasn't a lot better.

I'd like to see a strong and dynamic resurgence of Labor everywhere. That's another reason I support Dean -- he talks openly and often about making sure that if an American cmpany gets to take jobs to Mexico, then Labor must have the same rights to go help them organize.

[bloom]

50. I was part of

the group of non-unionized, mostly college-educated computer "employees" who did the creative work for a company that was able to extract a lot of productivity which was a benefit to the CEOs and upper-managers while we were left rather marginally compensated.

Now many of us are laid off while the company streamlines their offerings.

Most college-educated workers don't expect to have to join a union - and yet it seemed like it would have been the only way to get anywhere.

Even so - I don't think it would help the current scenerio - with jobs being shipped to somewhere else.


I guess I'm more in favor of minumum living wages - because unless EVERYONE is in a union - sometimes even managers - it seems to me that wages get out of whack (unskilled workers making higher wages than skilled workers).

I suppose someone could say - well, maybe the skilled person should just do the unskilled, union job. But I don't think that is the answer.

[Capn Sunshine]

31. Sometimes moral questions

are disguised by the free market.

You imply then that we should keep a large portion of the world in slavery so that you can pay less for your nose hair trimmers and other necessities?

Because that , and the systematic destruction of small mom and pop businesses nationwide via monopolistic practices, is what you get with WalMart.

[Eloriel]

46. Capn Sunshine

I love you more every time I see one of your Great Good Sense posts. Superb points you made.

:loveya:

And yes, the Free Market is totally amoral. Period. It's up to human beings to impose some checks and balances, fairness, and morality ON it. WalMart (and apparently some of its customers) obviously would disagree.

[Eloriel]

36. I do -- and I explained all about it on your thread

Did you miss it?

BTW, he did NOT say it would DOUBLE prices at WalMart.

[ArtieBoy]

19. I can't tell you how happy I am

to see the people at DU finally waking up. DEAN! DEAN! DEAN! DEAN!

[mbee]

22. Will this help Dean on Tuesday? What is the greatest influence

on undecided voters in making up their minds how to vote in the primary?

[janx]

24. Hard to say if it will help,

but his last MTP interview gave him additional support, so let's hope this one does also.

[Mz Pip]

25. I thought he did well, too

excect when he tried to dance around with a - My lobbyists are ok, anyone else's aren't - line of reasoning.

His lobbyist hasn't been a lobbyist for 4 years so that's ok. Wes Clark voted for Clinton and Gore but he's still a Republican and that's not ok. Kerry has lobbyists contributing to his campaign. Somehow that is bad.

THere are lots of lobbyists out there. Environmental groups have lobbyists don't they? Are all lobbyists bad? I'm not sure throwing all lobbyists into some evil mix is a good idea.

Didn't make me want to support him in the primary but I won't have a problem voting for him in the GE.

MzPip
:dem:

[Eloriel]

47. But HIS lobbyist isn't running for Prez or lobbying one n/t

[shivaji]

29. The more I see of Dean Avatar, the better I like him

He is Truman and Churchill combined!

[OutlawCorporatePolls]

32. just the facts ma'am..

see my signature line for links to the data that dean is crushing kerry with. spread the links far and wide. the new media is here, and we dont want the old media's candidate. sorry.

[corporatewhore]

30. can i remind you that kucinich marched w/us in seattle and

has a solid record of opposing NAFTA/WTO while howard Dean in 1995 said he was a strong supporter of NAFTA and kucinich will as his first act withdrawl from NAFTA/WTO

[mzmolly]

34. Actually Dean expressed reservations on NAFTA in 1995 as was

recently noted on the *mysterious tapes* that showed him speaking on Canadian talk shows...

While Dean was supporting a womans right to re-productive choice, Dennis was fighting against it, I don't care how many marches he attended.

[tmwat]

40. He says he supported NAFTA and the WTO

DEAN: I supported NAFTA, I supported the WTO. We benefited in Vermont from trade. But in the Midwest, our manufacturing jobs are hemorrhaging. We have to go back and revise every single trade agreement that we have to include labor standards, environmental standards & human rights standards. If we don't, the trade policy that we seek to help globalize and help workers around the country & the world is going to fail.

Source: Debate at Pace University in Lower Manhattan Sep 25, 2003
http://www.issues2000.org/2004/Howard_Dean_Free_Trade.htm

According to Kucinich, you can't just revise or tweak NAFTA because WTO regulations won't allow it. Therefore, the only logical course of action is to repeal NAFTA and withdraw from the WTO and replace them with bilateral trade agreements conditioned on human rights, workers rights, and environmental principles.

[Nicholas_J]

37. I agree

If you go back and look at Dean past statements, in a few days. I believe that the media will be again pointing pit Dena past statements, and agains ppointing out the incinsistancies in his statements today with Russert. I diednt particualrly think he did well at all, as inb a few days, Russert himself will be commenting and doing an analysis of the interview, anmd going back to past Dean statements.

[FubarFly]

39. Of course.

And it's a good reminder,too. Dean saw the virtues of NAFTA in 1995, and thought that they outweighed it's flaws. Vermont as a whole benifited from NAFTA. He understands it's problems now, and his solutions are both practical and realistic. Dennis would also make a great president. He understood NAFTAs flaws from the beginning. His solutions would also make sense for America, and it's a shame more people aren't listening.

[corporatewhore]

44. Deans plans arnt sensible

Freetrade is for the coporation by the corporations as the poster above said wto reg wouldnt let you cant wield free trade for good like the one ring it only has one master

[anti-NAFTA]

43. Yes, I know.

I was a Gephardt supporter until he dropped out, and I was planning to vote for Kucinich in the Florida primary after because I didn't really care for either Kerry or Dean. Now, I've decided to go with Dean because he clearly seems like a better candidate than Kerry.

[mzmolly]

35. Welcome. You won't be disapointed if you follow Dean instead of the media

characature of who Dean is...

Dean is a brilliant, honest, blunt, experienced, pragmatic, leader who we are foolish not to support.

WELCOME ABOARD!

[mvd]

45. Good to hear!

I missed him on MTP. Thanks for the recap. I've always liked Dean, and I feel that the volume of "the speech" was turned up. People who were there didn't recognize it as that way. Anyway, despite Dean's calling candidates Republicans, he's still my #2.

[quaker bill]

48. Welcome aboard

[bearfartinthewoods]

49. anyone know if it will be rerun on CNBC and when?

i was tied up with frozen pipes this am and missed it.

[1971]

51. Dean loses credibility when he calls Clark a Republican

Dean should cut out that BS, as he once again put out there on MTP this AM.

Butif that's how he's gonna play it...
We need a higher standard of leadership, we need Wes Clark.

[zulchzulu]

52. Absolutely

Dean's continuing with the lies and attacks has long been a reason why I can't stand him.