Dean on "Meet the Press" -- your punditry, please

[ArtieBoy]

Does he seem temperamental? Yes! Does he seem to have said one thing and done another at a few points? Yes. Do I still like him? YES!!!

My favorite part of today's Meet the Press: Russert says, "You were endorsed by the NRA, and they're for..." Dean: "Of course I don't support all that crap!" He looked like he was envisioning pinning Russert to a matt and beating his head against the floor. And I think it's great!

And yes, he has waffled here and there. He's against PACs and jumps Kerry for it, then hires a former lobbyist as campaign manager. Call me nuts but...I admire his being so "out-there" with it!

Dean says, "Prices will go up at Wal-Mart because I want people in other countries to be paid and live well, too. Isn't it time to have politicians like this instead of those who smile for three months?" God, I thought that was great.

Your thoughts?

Edits done for spellings and sentence structure.

[Darth_Kitten]

1. He's HOT, I tells ya.....

HOT!!!! :nuke:

[zulchzulu]

2. I bet his negatives will be rated high

He's too defensive. He looks desperate.

Russert is punching holes into his special interest hypocrisy.

Russert slapped him hard on his records being sealed. Dean is lying about why his records are sealed even though he said he would release them.

Russert has him on the ropes about how Dean says he's an outsider when in fact he has begged for Washington insiders to endorse him.

Dean proves again he can't get support from the full Democratic party due to attacking the DLC.

Dean will not gain anything from being on MTP. His supporters might like him on the show but everyone else is going to shrug him off as a has been.

[quinnox]

4. Ouch

not watching it, but it sounds like Dean is getting his ass kicked.

Of course, many Dean supporters will say Dean will now catapult into first place because of this historic great tv performance, but that is par for the course.

[Dr.Phool]

5. I thought Dean handled it well.

As much as Russert tried to nail him, he held his own.

He said Bush will get the NRA endorsement over him even though they've endorsed him in the past, because he believes in hunting, and gun ownership rights, but supports the assault weapons ban, and background checks at gun shows. He also said that most gun owners are saner than the loonies running the NRA.

[asthmaticeog]

10. Yeah, that was really impressive

His are the only views I've heard from any of the candidates re: the gun issue that resemble mine. (Not that anyone else is talking about it much, but they'll have no choice in the G.E. when the 'pubs fall back on the God Guns & Gays routine.) That in itself isn't enough for me to go full on for Dean, since guns aren't a big issue for me, but he very clearly expressed some realistic and sane views on a usually divisive issue where people often tend to frame the debate in terms of absolutes.

[Eloriel]

19. No, that's what supporters of other candidates want you to think

but he did GREAT. Nothing stuck. Nothing.

But you can believe what you want. Best solution: tune in yourself if it hasn't aired in your area. (Is it replayed later -- sometime tonight, perhaps?)

[chocolateeater]

50. It's replayed at 10:00PM EST on CNBC. n/t

[RetroLounge]

52. not watching it

but still you have a pithy comment...

[TeeYiYi]

9. I've never been a Dean supporter . . .

. . . and I thought he did GREAT. He's now solidly in second place for me.

Kucinich is #1.

TYY

[Jim Sagle]

17. Did we watch the same show? Dean pulverised Tim.

[TeeYiYi]

40. I watched the same show you watched . . .

. . . Tim Russert tried every smarmy trick in the book and Dean handled him like butter.

TYY

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

20. I disagree. I think Dean responded well

Except to a degree he responded too well. His answers to his records being sealed will be used against him when it comes to Cheney's records not being released.

I didn't really care much for him calling John Kerry a Republican, since there is little evidence that that is true, but I suppose it gave his faithful something to cheer on and look on the bright side: for the next week people can post John Kerry is a Republican legally on DU...all they have to do is put it in quotes from Howard Dean.

[lastknowngood]

3. If your looking for truth

you just heard it. If your looking fantasies look somewhere else.

[asthmaticeog]

6. I'm not a Dean supporter...

...but he sure did kick ass. If he were one of my top choices, he would have sold me today, no question, and if Dennis or Wesley drops out, Dean hits my top two for sure. If his hammering on Kerry can help swing primary voters to him or any other candidate, good on him. Plus, he did something I've been waiting to see a politician - ANY politician - do, and that's talk about programs realistically in revenue terms: "You want this program? We have this much money. If you want this, that or the other may have to suffer. So do you STILL want this? OK, let's see what we can do with this much money, or figure out how to get more. We can get more by raising this tax, or by changing the way we do something else. You want the tax to go up, or do you want ...(and so forth)" You're not going to get that kind of blunt truthfulness from an entrenched D.C. power-structure habitue like Kerry, I'm sorry.

[Cheswick2.0]

7. regarding the lobbiest thing

Neel never lobbied the White house and has not lobbied for several years, though he still may be registered as one, I don't know. However what does that have to do with anything? He is not lobbying the congress for Dean, and he is not giving PAC to Dean, he is running his campaign.

[Casablanca]

64. Kerry can't convincingly beat him up over it ...

After trying to slam Kerry about not knowing enough about "the way things are done in Washington". Dean hired a Washington insider, and that's the way things are done there.

Roy helped Gore win the second largest popular vote landslide in presidential history. I'd say that's pretty good credentials, and Trippi should have put his ego on hold enough to at least try to work with him.

If Dean hadn't hired someone with experience or ties, the anti-Dean screeds would be tut-tutting about that too.

[MGKrebs]

8. I thought it was good.

"Isn't it time to have politicians like this instead of those who smile for three months?"

If they can get the tape of that line played a few times here and there, I think it will connect with a lot of people. it was a sublime moment.

It was also interesting that at the end of Chris Matthews' show today, where he does his monologue, he compared Dean to Dick Cheney, in that Cheney can sell you the most radical right wing agenda and make you think that it is prudent and responsible, while Dean can say the most sensible stuff, but frightens people with his facial expressions and choice of words.

I don't know if Dean will be able to recover from where he is at (I hope so), but I still think he would make a helluva President.

[newsguyatl]

11. the governor

was excellent!


he's not holding back anymore like he had been doing for the last several months... he's back to the fiery candidate that ignited so much passion (and had so inspired me)... dean will start a climb in the polls again... he might not finish out on top, but he'll go upwards...



my impression after turning the television off --> don't count this guy out yet... there may be some REAL brokering going on at that convention...



folks, this is cleary PEOPLE vs. ESTABLISHMENT.


and i know who =i= want to win.

[intheozone]

14. I agree with you Newsguy,

the establishment doesn't want to stop Dean, it wants to stop the PEOPLE! The establishment is scared to death of the movement Dean has started, and for good reason.

The people must not let this movement be stopped! If we are stopped now, who knows when, or if, we will ever get moving again.

WE WANT OUR COUNTRY BACK!!

[Lugnut]

48. That's my perception as well.

The establishment doesn't want us to think, rebel or fight back. They want us to wring our hands like good little sheeple and accept the inevitable. BULLHOCKEY!!

Dr. Dean gave the disenfranchised a voice and a presence. I'm with him 'til the last dog dies.

[Skip Intro]

16. I see it that way too

People vs Establishment, and the establishment hit Dean hard after Iowa (and before?). But he's regrouped, re-energized and ready to fight. In the face of all the crap that has been hurled his way, he's ready to fight. This man inspires me. He continually wins me over. And he did it again today.

:D

[mzmolly]

Yes... People Powered Howard vs. Establishment Powered....

??

I am with you Newsguy!

[janx]

12. How could any reasonable human being not see that

this guy is miles ahead of anyone else running?

I don't understand it.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mzmolly]

33. I don't either, how could anyone not want to see power returned to the

people of the United States, Health Care for all, balanced budgets etc...

Man it's totally beyond me.

[janx]

35. Maybe some people aren't used to such a direct delivery.

We've gotten used to such slick deliveries from politicians that Dean may be somewhat of a shock to people.

But he did so well today, and he seemed to enjoy the interview. Did you notice his response to Russert when Russert asked him to respond to Kerry's request for a one-on-one debate?

[Clark Can WIN]

13. ArtieBoy I respect that you find these things appealing about him

But much of your appealing is my appalling, I guess we'll have to leave it there.

[bigtree]

15. Higher prices under Dean, Higher taxes under Dean

at least in the short run at the beginning of his term.

Is that really going to be the effect of his first budget if he becomes president?

[Eloriel]

22. You shouldn't be shopping at WalMart anyway

for their unfair labor practices, their unfair competitive practices, their rapid pro-Repug politics, etc., etc., etc.

Dean said prices would go up at WALMART -- so people in other countries can actually be paid something for their work, develop a middle class, stop illegal immigrations here so they can merely feed their families, and promote national security since countries with large middle classes don't go to war as much as other countries.

Shopping at WalMart supports the exploitation of workers in other countries.

[bigtree]

28. Or Target or K-Mart?

They gey cheaper foreign goods also. Where would you have me shop? Bloomingdales?

[artr2]

32. How about your local small businessman.

If you want to support America and not corporate America, shop at a locally owned store.*


* that is if wal-mart didn't put them out of business, by sucking all of the air out of that market

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

72. "Where would you have me shop?"

The more important question is:

"Where would I have you work?"

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TeeYiYi]

43. I guess that depends on . . .

. . . whether you care about jobs being exported to other countries. Yours, or that of someone you know, could be next.

TYY

[Clark Can WIN]

71. What do you know about my community?

Main Street died long before WalMart came in here and it's an extensive commute to another town. A prohibitive venture for the elderly and disabled, especially in the winter. I guess it's easy to take a noble, high minded stand and to issue decrees to others when you are uninformed about the circumstances of others.

As for my job, I am an entrepreneur, as for the jobs of those I know, in my community WalMart raised employment rates 4 fold. Low wage service jobs you say? So they would have been mostly otherwise under a local store owner.

I resent it when people presume to tell me where I should and shouldn't shop. The stench of elitism is much too thick for me.

[Nazgul35]

56. no one is telling you where to shop...

but rather why not to shop there....

big distinction! Less being concerned about being told what to do and more being concerned about how our actions effect our every day lives would go a long way towards fixing alot of what's wrong in this country....

Short term gain for long term loss.....not a great strategy!!!

The tragedy of the Commons lives still!!

[Clark Can WIN]

73. Gee, I found "You shouldn't be shopping at........." Fairly clear

as a directive of someone telling me where not to shop. Funny you didn't see that.

As for the other less than complimentary aspects of your post: please see above.

[Beaker]

76. Lots of voters DO shop at Walmart-

Personally, I've never been to one, or a Sam's club either for that matter...but as well as they do, apparently a lot of voters do shop there...and if Dean were the nominee, all that we'd hear, and all that Roveco would need to keep repeating is: "For higher taxes & higher prices at Walmart- Vote Howard Dean"...

[Armstead]

18. I thought he did great.

For one thing he did not waffle about his own responsibility for his decline. He accepted it in true "The Buck Stops Here" fashion.

He also had a good energy level. Also I think he looked like he was enjoying himself, which is important in politics.

And his basic message was very clear. We DO need to change politics. Everyone always says that -- but Dean is walking his talk by the way his campaign and message are structured.

And he was right-on with the issues. It may not be politically "safe" but he was basically saying let's get taxes back to where Clinton had them and the economy will do better. Then we can get the budget in line, and THEN make the government an effective vehicle for positive change.

[kentuck]

21. Did you notice the NYTimes article was dated 1993?

The article was 11 years old and Dean said Neel had not been a lobbyist for 4 years? Which is correct?

[asthmaticeog]

23. They can both be correct...

...if Neel became a lobbyist 11 years ago and left the profession after 7 years.

[not systems]

24. 2004 - 4 = 2000 or maybe 1999. 1993<1999

There was no contradiction.

[Eloriel]

25. What article?

I don't understand what you're referring to and therefore what your question is.

[milkyway]

27. Some can try to spin it, but this was an incredibly strong appearance

by Dean. Russert came at Dean with everything the repugs can possibly use, and he handled every single issue very well. You can think this is just another Dean supporter talking him up, but I'm the first to say when Dean has a weak performance (the Iowa debate was a total disaster, he was mediocre at best at the South Carolina debate, though I loved that he went after Cheney). But today he was great. He confidently and straightforwardly deflected everything Russert could throw at him.

BTW, the Dean blog just posted that Russert read a letter to the editor that appeared in the DesMoines Register just before the voting there. The letter contained some snippy remarks about Dean getting endorsements from Washington establishment people. What Russert didn't mention was that the letter was written by the Minnesota State chair for the Kerry campaign, Jim Bootz.

[blm]

47. Wrong. This was Russert letting Dean have lots of room to attack Kerry.

He did not ask Dean for proof of his accusation that Kerry was "on the take" from special interests.

The followup questions were not probing when he actually made one.

This was a total valentine to Dean and to the GOP who wants to use Dean to attack Kerry.

[Mass_Liberal]

66. So you don't think that Dean did well?

eh?

[blm]

68. I see he LIED and accused Kerry of being "on the take"

Is Dean planning on filing charges against Kerry for being "on the take" or was he trying to smear him knowing those numbers were individual donations over a 19 year period?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

74. Did he say "on the take?"

Must have missed that. Or maybe I didn't.

[blm]

77. Yes...he did.

If he means what he says then he should have charges filed against Kerry. Or was he deliberately misleading the audience?

[Malikshah]

29. Russert needs to be called out

I went to find out about the "information" spewed forth by Russert and came up with this....

Snip

It's interesting that Tim Russert remembered this short letter -- a smear of Governor Dean by Jim Bootz of
Chaska, Minnesota -- from two weeks ago, one of 53 letters to the editor published that day, and decided to read it on national television.

Also interesting: a quick Googling reveals that the writer (whose name was in much smaller print than the letter when put on the screen) is the Minnesota State Director for John Kerry who canvassed Iowa for Kerry as far back as October, even spending some time with the Senator himself.

Snip



www.blogforamerica.com

This is something that needs to be focused upon by ALL campaigns.

Just remember Judy Woodruff's little "I just received this fax" trick during an earlier debate.

Anyone who tries to argue that the media is not trying to decide the race is woefully behind the times.

Luckily the Dean Rapid Response Team is in action. Here's hoping the other campaigns have similar tools at their disposal.

We're supposed to be fighting * and the BFEE. The media needs to be taken to task. I wish for the day that Russert, Woodruff give a public talk in my area...they'll get a laundry list of failures on their part and a major public shaming.

[blm]

30. He also said Kerry ws "on the take" for special interests.

Kerry has never taken special interest pac money or corporate pac money in any of his races. The donations made by INDIVIDUALS came in 1000.00 at a time over an 18 year period. Those individuals were lobbyists for Democratic causes like the environment and prounion lobbyists.

[mzmolly]

31. I missed it *durn* but I found the TRANSCRIPT here

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4112959/

Off to read it... ;)

[mzmolly]

34. Watch the video here...

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3032608/

Click on launch below Dean's pic. :hi:

[JNelson6563]

36. Great Beat the Press showing!!

Poor Tiimy the Whore....he wasn't able to strike a blow no matter how hard he tried! Even happening to remember a LTTE (which also happened to be written by Kerry's campaing mgr. in WI) out some 50+ that appeared in the same paper that day.

Oh yes, the Dr. kicked some ass in spite of corporate media whores playing on Kerry's team.

I love it.

Julie

[Cuban_Liberal]

37. I thought he handled himself well.

Overall, he did a great job, and reminded me of all the reasons I still like him. :)

[joe_sixpack]

38. It was kind of refreshing

I'm not really a Dean supporter but it was nice to see a candidate who is saying something other than his pre packaged election sound bites over and over. He was pretty open and honest about many things.

[watercolors]

41. Dean was great

First time my husband has actually sat and watched him speak. He too was very impressed. We have not made up our minds yet, thought I liked Clark, but things change. But it will still be ABB for us!

[joe_sixpack]

42. One thing I noticed that was contradictory..

At one point Dean said that payroll taxes were regressive and that is where he would make cuts. In another segment, when asked about social security and medicare, he stated that an improving economy means more and more revenue coming in through payroll taxes, thus securing these programs. He advocates cutting these taxes then states that increasing amounts from them are necessary to keep these two programs solvent.

[dansolo]

60. It can be done and be revenue neutral

With payroll taxes, you can lower the rate, and increase the point where it cuts off. That is why they are so regressive. All money that is earned over a certain point has no taxes taken out for SS and Medicare.

[janx]

44. Russert of course had to bring up the Scream, to which Dean

responded: "I had a GREAT time!" B-)

[Southsideirish]

45. Supercalifragilisticespiallydocious! ...He was that great!

Howard Dean was incredible!!!! He was articulate, knowledgeable, charming and,as always, courageous. Kudos, Howard you showed that Russert person who is going to be the next president.

[cryofan]

46. he never ONCE mentioned progressive taxation

Everything else is fine with Dean, but he wants the rich people (like himself) to pay the same as the middle class. And I am not talking about reversing the tax cuts for the middle class. I am saying that he NEVER talks about economic justice or about how the progressive taxation scheme in this country has disappeared.

[HFishbine]

55. You must have missed it

He talked about his desire to create greater tax fairness in the most regressive tax of all, the payroll tax.

[Fleshdancer]

63. Not true....

He even mentions that very subject on his website:
http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/cg/index.html?type=page&pagename=policy_statement_economy_taxreform


The distribution of the income tax burden has changed dramatically. In 1973, corporations paid 40% of federal income tax revenues. Last year, the corporate contribution was down to 16.8%. Experts estimate that corporate tax avoidance schemes are costing the US taxpayers up to $100 billion a year. Senator John McCain claims that even a modest effort to eliminate unnecessary special interest tax preferences and loopholes would raise nearly $50 billion a year in increased federal revenues.

The current tax code is overloaded with special interest favoritism and stacked against working Americans. Unfair tax subsidies, shelters and loopholes abound. Corporations use foreign tax havens solely to avoid paying US income taxes. Tax cheats escape detection and prosecution. Abusive tax shelters are commonplace.

Governor Dean will make fundamental reform of the tax system one of his first priorities. He will crack down on tax shelter promoters and their clients He will pursue actions to impose hefty fines and bar further practice before government agencies by lawyers and accountants who certify abusive tax shelters. President Bush’s own tax commissioner testified that the IRS lacked sufficient resources to collect $30 billion in known unpaid taxes. The Governor will provide the Internal Revenue Service with the budget it needs to do its job.

The Dean economic program will strive for greater tax fairness for middle class working families. Closing corporate tax loopholes will help shift some of the burden off the shoulders of individuals. Ending unfair tax preferences will raise additional revenue to reduce the deficit and help set the federal budget on the road to balance.

[cthrumatrix]

49. Beat the Press ..by Howard Dean... he was awesome...he addressed the

issues of his campaign..blew the lid on Kerry...and clearly is the right choice to get this country going again (for the people)

[surfermaw]

51. Dean Tax talk on the sly

Didn't I read or hear some place that Dean is talking tax cuts , but is talking another story on his tax cut on the sly? I think it was Kerry that told the story. Any one have the skinny on this. Exactly what has Deans said?

[Anwen]

53. Does Meet The Press air again later?

I missed it! :-(

[Anwen]

54. Nevermind

I should have read all the posts before I asked this :)

[Darth_Ole]

57. Dean kicked Russert's ass.

I think this was his 4th time on MTP. His best show yet.

Russert brought every clip, quote, and article he could to corner Dean, but he couldn't. Dean gave great answers on the war, special interests, Kerry, his sealed records, and balancing the budget.

I don't know if it's Neel or what, but Dean is definitely more thorough and direct and agressive than he has been the past few weeks. I like it a lot.

This race is going to the end, folks.

[Anwen]

59. Awesome!!!

I can't wait to watch it! That what I love about Dean... his blunt, honest answers. It's so refreshing.

I remember seeing all of the candidates on Hardball awhile back. Chris Matthews had to repeatedly ask several of the candidates to simply ANSWER the question because they would dance around it over and over. Dean was the only one where Chris didn't have to drill him to get an answer. That really impressed me.

[Kira]

58. Dean was great

I hope people really listened to him. I did wish that he had said that the scream actually sounded totally different when the backround noise wasn't taken out.

[Lugnut]

62. YEs, but...

He did ask TR which tape he was going to play; (loosely ) "the ABC one or yours". Of course Timmy played the NBC tape without the background noise.

Dr. Dean's response to the tape was great! :)

[onecitizen]

61. I love him.......

I do!:loveya:

I thought he was GREAT today! The best I've seen him.

Go git 'em Dean!

[ArtieBoy]

65. The sealed records response

When I say he "waffles," what I'm really referring to was the great part where they showed the `03 Vermont press conference where they brought up the sealed records and he said something like, "Well, there's a presedential run in the future and we wouldn't want to see anything embarassing from that turning up in the paper." And then he just smiled! How can you not love that?! Like, "Yeah, I'm a politician and I'm running for the biggest job in the world. You think I want to embarass myself? I'm not stupid!" Hey, he was straightforward about it.

C'mon, people...the country turned on us because we've acted like balless wonders for years. Let's try something different now, okay?

[davsand]

67. Didn't see it-- did read the transcripts.

Dean did a fine job and managed to hit his talking points. He sounded very down to earth and did a good job of controlling Russert. There was one section that did make me flinch--and that was his discussion of Kerry's PAC money sources.

Dean was doing a good job of making his point till he used the example of Bush and the Medicare drug bill and funneling cash into the Drug companies and HMOs and other med special interest groups. THAT made me flinch since I'd seen someplace that he's also taken a pretty large amount of cash from those same type of folks.

No matter how correct he is, he will be weakened when the other side (be it GOP or DNC) runs that kind of info past the voters. I hate it for him-because his point is valid--I just wish he'd used some other example there.

All in all, I was tickled to see him do well with Russert (I refer to him as The Asswipe here at home, BTW)and I think it was a good outing for him.

I was pleased--I hope he is too.

Laura

[Anwen]

69. I finally just watched this...

I'm VERY impressed. Dean handled Russert very well. :)

[askew]

70. I just watched the replay of MTP and Dean was great.

He really handled TR well. Tim threw every smear he could at Dean and Dean just calmly sat there and explained his positions. Dean came across as very intelligent and well versed. I really liked his answer on the NRA. Tim Russett tried to make it appear that Dean somehow approved of the NRA's extremist messages, because they endorsed him for governor and Dean explained out the Vermont NRA had done a lot of good for Vermont such as conservation, etc. He explained how he was from a rural state and had a different stance on gun rights than the other candidates which would make him more electable in the general election (if he was the Democratic candidate). And he also explained how Bush* would be getting the NRA's endorsement not Dean, because Dean supported the assualt ban law and closing the gun show loophole.

I also liked Dean's point on his record of accomplishment (actually balancing the budget, providing healthcare to children, implementing the success by six, etc. and comparing it to Kerry's lack of accomplishment while in office. This is a valid comparison between the two candidates. Dean has accomplished a lot while in government. He has been a leader, Kerry more of a follower, which is fine in the Senate, but not as President of the U.S.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

75. He even worked in "crap" and screwed."

Two words Dems know intimately.