How many millions has Kerry loaned his campaign?

[stickdog]

http://herndon2.sdrdc.com/cgi-bin/dcdev/forms/C00383653/107413/#SUMMARY

Kerry loaned his campaign 2.9 million in the last quarter of 2003.

Kerry started the year 2004 with 1.6 million in cash and 3.8 million in debts and obligations.

Even assuming Kerry was in no hurry to pay off his debt to himself, Kerry's campaign still started 2004 with no more than $800,000 net.

(In contrast, Dean started 2004 with 8.5 million net and Clark started 2004 with 3.0 million net.)

How many more millions has Kerry loaned his campaign this month?

If and when Kerry secures the nomination, how many millions will Democratic party fundraisers then be in hock to him for?

[Jack_Dawson]

1. Enough to make sure millionaires will always win

over less wealthy but more principled candidates.

[sandnsea]

2. Dean blew through $35 million

He loaned his campaign $500,000 if you go look at the records. I have no idea why that would need to happen, but it did. You're not going to win beating up Kerry. It didn't work in IA or NH. It won't work anywhere else. Dean needs to start talking about what HE'S going to do and he needs to do it in a hurry.

[EllieDem]

3. How in the world do you blow threw 35 million

in that relatively short time? WOW

[stickdog]

8. In 2003, Kerry raised 17.7 million and spent+owed 26.0 million.

That's a net of minus 8.3 million.

http://herndon2.sdrdc.com/cgi-bin/dcdev/forms/C00383653/107413

In 2003, Dean raised 40.9 million and spent+owed 30.6 million. That's a net of plus 10.3 million.

http://herndon2.sdrdc.com/cgi-bin/dcdev/forms/C00378125/107331

[sandnsea]

12. Well, it's 2004

And Dean's money is dwindling. And he isn't paying his staff, let's not forget that.

Kerry loaned his campaign money. We know that. Just like Edwards loaned his campaign $6 million when he was running for the senate. Funny we never hear about that.

[MercutioATC]

16. Well, maybe we don't hear about Edwards because he hasn't done it

in THIS campaign, which is the topic of discussion. Kerry did it in THIS election. That's what people are talking about.

[sandnsea]

18. Buying elections is buying elections n/t

[MercutioATC]

21. Fine. Then Kerry's buying THIS election, by your logic.

That's NOT my statement.

If you want to accuse Edwards, you have to accuse Kerry of the same thing.

[sandnsea]

27. And vice versa

The lynch mob mentality is sickening. People have gone on and on here about Kerry buying the election. I'm just pointing out Edwards did the same thing in SC, in order to point out how RIDICULOUS the claim is. And how ridiculous all this loaning money here and there is.

Not paying staff when you have the ability to do it, that's another matter.

[MercutioATC]

51. I didn't see anybody in this thread accusing Kerry of "buying" anything...

...so I wasn't responding to that.

On edit: I guess Jack_Dawson did kind of insinuate that. If you wanted to make an issue of that, however, it might have been better to respond to HIS post directly.

[abburdlen]

74. Edwards is from NC

Not SC but it's good to see how closely you've looked at the other canddiates before you made your choice. :)

[stickdog]

28. I 'm asking a very important question. How much money has John Kerry

loaned his campaign, and how and when is he planning on paying himself back?

Dean's campaign was, is and will always be in the black. The current financial outlook of Dean's campaign is the best of any Democratic candidate, by far.

On the other hand, Kerry must have loaned himself a couple of million every week in January. And that's on top of the 2.9 million he already loaned himself in the fourth quarter?

How in the hell is Kerry supposed to compete with Bush when he's funding the lion's share of his 2004 primary campaign expenses with seven figure loans to himself?

We know Kerry loaned himself 2.9 million in the fourth quarter of 2003. How many millions did Kerry loan himself in January? How many more millions does he plan on loaning himself in the months to come? How, when and with what is he planning on paying off the untold millions he has loaned and will loan to himself?

[sandnsea]

31. Untold millions??

Now you're totally off the deep end. Whether the money comes in this week or a month ago really doesn't matter. It'll be paid. And nobody will have to go without a paycheck either.

[stickdog]

38. The figure is definitely in the millions already. It's probably well over

10 million already, and it's rising fast.

Meanwhile, Kerry raised just 17.7 million dollars over the entire 2003 calendar year.

So tell me why we shouldn't be concerned about Kerry going into huge debt to himself to win the nomination? I mean, if he was SPENDING his own money to do this, that would be great. But he's expecting Dem party general election fund-raisers to pay him back, now isn't he?

Whom does he expect to pay him back? And when does he expect us to pay him?

[sandnsea]

40. rotfl

Whatever. Hope you had your jollies.

[MercutioATC]

43. This isn't "jollies", it's fact:

"Front-runner Kerry spent nearly $23.6 million last year. The campaign raised about $23.5 million last year, including about $3 million he lent it. Kerry has lent his campaign about $6.8 million in all, but less than half was reflected in the year-end report. He started the new year with $1.6 million on hand and $3.8 million in debts. "

Hardly sounds like Dean's campaign has bigger financial troubles than this...

[sandnsea]

45. Untold millions of debt???

That's a little extreme. That's what I was laughing at. And it's not the debt, it's the amount SPENT with absolutely NO planning for the future at all. He had to stop paying staff. That is just wrong.

[MercutioATC]

48. Actually, since we have no indication he's stopped loaning himself money,

they are, by definition, "untold millions".

Again, he asked staff to defer their paychecks for two weeks. That's not the same as not paying them.

[stickdog]

52. What is just wrong is using your deep pockets to loan yourself millions

to win the nomination -- all the while planning to pay yourself back with the hard earned dollars that working Democrats later contribute to beat Bush, not to replenish your personal portfolio.

What's the difference between this and what Arnie did in California other than Kerry's far bigger loans to his campaign?

[leyton]

56. Uh, your logic doesn't really hold...

So when Kerry spends his own money for his campaign, it's not a good way to win... but when Democrats contribute money, it's legitimate?

They're not paying to replenish his personal portfolio, they're paying to support his campaign... it just so happens that he used his personal portfolio to support the campaign at one time. Geez.

[stickdog]

57. If that were true, I'd have no problems with it. But it's not.

Kerry had LOANED his campaign many millions. And Kerry intends on paying back these loans -- with interest -- using our general election money.

[MercutioATC]

58. See, Kerry's NOT "spending his own money". He's LOANING his personal

money to the campaign, which is a separate legal entity. The campaign (not Kerry) has an obligation to pay Kerry (the person) back.

THAT'S what's being discussed here.

[MercutioATC]

10. Spend it in 50 states. It goes quickly.

This wasn't all Iowa and New hampshire money.

[Nicholas_J]

13. Does'nt bode well for claims

Of fiscal responsibility though, wouldnt you say.

I mean really. Kerry may have lent his own campaign money ( All of them probably have contributed to their own campaigns, so it is merely the fact that Kerry had to do so in December that is a big issue).

Personally I think that the F.E.C. shuld be examining exactly what happened to the money from the Dean campaign, as articles reported that he was cutting back on his campaign spending asearly as the first few days in New Hampshire.

[MercutioATC]

14. Since when do campaigns have ANYTHING to do with spending in office?

This is nothing but a poor attempt at a cheap shot. You MIGHT have touched on a more important issue, however...WHO had to loan his own campaign over $6M to keep it afloat? Based on where the money's coming from, which candidate is "borrowing and spending"?

[sandnsea]

25. Not paying staff does

That's the most important thing. Seems that's Dean's way. He has land in Vermont he could take a loan out on. He didn't. He cut people's wages instead. It's just wrong. That absolutely matters because that's exactly what he did with the budget in Vermont.

[MercutioATC]

26. He did nothing of the sort.

He asked campaign staff to defer their paychecks by two weeks. He hasn't stopped paying them.

[sandnsea]

29. Not getting paid, exactly

In my world, when I don't get money this week, I don't eat. Guess Howard doesn't quite get that. Maybe that's why he never gave a shit about how much money he asked all these kids to give and never gave a shit that they were eating mac 'n cheese in order to do it. He has no clue about what it's like to live in the real world.

[MercutioATC]

37. I thought you didn't like Dean supporters anyway...

I haven't heard ONE of them bitch about a 2-week deferrment. Why are you so concerned? Look, we can take care of our campaign. Thanks for the concern, but our money situation (while not quite as good as we'd have hoped) is fine.

[nightperson]

63. I wonder what the real story is with the 2 week forced loan

(as I would call it), or whatever it was? Anyone know? How much money was involved? Did it screw up people's lives? The surprise factor could have made it a worse problem for some. Could Howard have helped by using his own money? Howard's sure not hurting for walking-around money himself-http://rutlandherald.com/hdean/50021 !

[stickdog]

66. And if Dean LOANED his campaign a few million (Dean's entire net worth)

at a 5.5% interest rate like Kerry has done and is doing, what would you say about his financial situation then?

That it was just as rosy and admirable as Kerry's and Edwards'?

[LuminousX]

67. LOL.. ever work on a campaign? Especially a 'long-shot' campaign?

[stickdog]

20. What are you talking about? Kerry has spent about $15 million more than

he has raised.

Meanwhile Dean still has spent about 5 million LESS THAN he's raised, and he's still raising money at a faster clip than Kerry.

Do we really want the first 10-15 million we raise to fight Bush in the general election going to pay back the huge loans Kerry gave himself so he could secure the nomination despite anemic support?

[stickdog]

9. Source? (nt)

[MercutioATC]

4. In answer (unlike the other posters here) I believe it was $6.5M total.

[sandnsea]

5. No

The actual forms show a lesser amount.

And, again, let's remember Edwards spent $6 million of his own money on his Senate seat so we can be done with that buying elections nonsense. Just in case somebody wanted to go there again.

[MercutioATC]

6. I was simply trying to answer the question instead of posturing, as the

other posters had.

Wasn't making any comment about buying elections.

[sandnsea]

11. It's not posturing

It's reporting what the FEC report said.

[MercutioATC]

15. The question was about Kerry's loans. You posted about Dean's spending.

That's not answering the post, that's posturing.

[sandnsea]

17. "The actual forms show a lesser amount. " ????

[MercutioATC]

19. Post #2??? What did that have to do with the original thread?

[sandnsea]

23. Self-righteousness is getting old n/t

[MercutioATC]

33. Try to dismiss it, but what did post #2 have to do with the original post?

I'm not being self-righteous, I'm answering YOUR question.

[sandnsea]

35. self-righteousness GOT old

A very, very long time ago. I'm SICK SICK SICK of the "movement" being so important that some people would just as soon destroy the Democratic Party altogether as admit their candidate is losing because nobody likes him.

[MercutioATC]

41. Again, I'm not "self-righteous". I'm correcting your misstatements...

...or, perhaps more accurately, your misconceptions based on biased data.

I'm trying to save the party here. Another "buisness as usual" Dem will do nothing but harm us further.

That's just my opinion and it has NOTHING to do with the original post, so I'd rather not continue the discussion here. Start a thread if you wish and I'll post to it.

[sandnsea]

47. Destroying to save never worked n/t

[MercutioATC]

49. Actually, that's not true, doctors do it with cancer patients every day.

...but that's not what I meant. It's not about "destroying", it's about changing the party. Hey, if we're really a minority, we'll lose anyway, but there are many of us who feel that this party's dying because Democrats have given up their identity and we see the only way to correct this as reestablishing the issues we stand for.

Again, this doesn't belong in this thread. I'd be happy to discuss it elsewhere.

[MercutioATC]

59. kick

[MercutioATC]

22. BTW, here's MY link to Kerry's loans to his campaign. Where's yours?

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2004/01/31/politics2245EST0692.DTL

[sandnsea]

24. Uhm, posted in the original post... n/t

[MercutioATC]

30. Yes, that was a QUARTERLY number, not a TOTAL, which is what I stated.

You're absolutely right about the quarterly number. I said I believed Kery had loaned his campaign roughly $6.5M TOTAL. Is it seems, I was a little low.

[sandnsea]

32. There was ONLY ONE loan

I guess it wasn't as big as what they reported originally.

[MercutioATC]

34. No, they reported the loan correctly. He made earlier loans...

...totaling $6.8M (including the totals from 10/03 to 12/03).

Why is this so hard to understand?

[sandnsea]

36. One loan, December, that's all n/t

[MercutioATC]

39. My mistake. They were LATER loans, not earlier loans.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2004/01/31/politics2245EST0692.DTL

clearly states that less than half of his loans to his campaign were reflected in year-end reports.

[sandnsea]

42. So maybe he didn't spend that money, hmmm?? n/t

[MercutioATC]

44. Well THIS doesn't seem to support that theory:

"Front-runner Kerry spent nearly $23.6 million last year. The campaign raised about $23.5 million last year, including about $3 million he lent it. Kerry has lent his campaign about $6.8 million in all, but less than half was reflected in the year-end report. He started the new year with $1.6 million on hand and $3.8 million in debts. "

...seems he DID spend it....and more.

[sandnsea]

46. Then it would be in the report n/t

[MercutioATC]

50. Read the BIG words at the top of that report:

SUMMARY
5. Covering Period 10/01/2003 Through 12/31/2003

...that's one quarter, not the whole campaign.

[girl gone mad]

7. It was..

6 or 7 million, according to an article I read today. I'll search my history.

[stickdog]

55. I'm thinking it's more like 10 million.

At minimum.

[frustrated_lefty]

53. Doesn't really matter

he can always give himself more.

[stickdog]

54. It wouldn't matter if he was GIVING it to himself.

However, he's LOANING it to himself.

That means Kerry's planning on starting out the general election against Bush in the red to the tune of eight figures. Can we really afford to have 10-20 million of our anti-Bush general election war chest used to "repay" Kerry for loaning himself enough money knock out the Democrats' undisputed king of fund raising?

[LizW]

60. So, say Kerry's elected President

and his campaign owes 10-15 million dollars (just to pull a number out of the air, there's no telling how much it could be by November).

Once he's in office, donors can make donations to help the campaign retire its debt, right? A debt which the campaign owes to Kerry himself, right? So, in effect, donors can hand money to the campaign which will go right into Kerry's pocket while he's President.

Nice.

[NNN0LHI]

61. Wouldn't have had this problem if Dean had kept his promise of...

...accepting matching funds during his run for the Democratic nomination. But alas he didn't keep his word forcing Kerry to then do the same thing to have any chance at all to compete against Deans big war chest. One would almost think that Dean wants the Dem nominee to be hindered financially when the GE comes around by breaking that kind of promise and knowing what the result would be?

Don

[stickdog]

65. Please explain how Kerry is supposed to beat Bush spending 6 times

as much as him if he can't hope to beat Dean spending 50% more than him?

Am I really the only one who noticed this blatant logical contradiction?

[Zomby Woof]

62. Kerry won in Iowa and NH

Dean did not, so is all this handwringing constructive?

[MercutioATC]

64. I think it's a valid question.

Will he make enough money to effectively combat Bush? I seriously don't know. He's seriously in the red after the first two contests...

[blm]

68. How many MILLIONS has Dean squandered on a campaign that was all HYPE and

promoted by a media that ignored all other candidates, thereby ensuring their fundraising would dry up?

[stickdog]

69. Strange that nobody seems to want to talk about this ...

Will Kerry's campaign's huge eight figure debt to Kerry himself sink our general election chances?

[molly]

72. I think that it is a non-issue - why waste time with it?

:shrug:

[stickdog]

73. If the first 20 million Kerry that raises for the General Election goes to

pay back Kerry -- wiht interest, of course -- how in the hell is that a non-issue?

Remember, we are talking about a guy who raised just 17.7 million over all of 2003.

Remember, he's not giving his money to his campaign. He expects the party to pick up the tab -- with interest -- once he's the nominee.

[Hep]

70. He won't get a penny from me, it's all I'm saying

n/t

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

71. I don't know but I will look for it.

I really don't think loaning your campaign money is the biggest deal in the world. Since you are interested why not go find the PDF file and post it here?