There are only two groups in America ..... "Us" ...... and "Them"

[Stinky The Clown]

Call me a "DINO". Call me "DLC". Call me "Pollyanna" (or in my case, PolyAnthony). Call me a dreamer. Call me delusional. Call me anything you want. Just don't call me late for dinner.

It seems to me we need to boil everything down to essentials. Day after day, there's carping, grousing, flaming, and, on occasion, honest debate about 'progressivism' versus 'moderation' versus 'middle-of-the-road' versus 'liberal' versus 'yellow dog' versus 'blue dog' ........ versus ..... versus ...... versus ..........

Let's get to the essence of that. Every person in any of those or other groups are all on our side. They are we. We are "Us".

And who is the other side?

"Them".

That's who. The people who enable or support the illegal cabal now in control of every fucking organ of government and public information and opinion shaping.

Actually, it is George Bush himself who said it best. "You are either with us or you're with the terrorists."

Well, this Democrat views "Them" as honest-to-God terrorists. They have terrorized whole nations ....... including this one. They have done evil to the entire world. They have STOLEN control of our government through chicanery and evil.

We have lots of time, later, to sort out all our politically correct, highly nuanced labels. We can eat our own when we have an abundance of food.

But right now, people, we are wandering in a political desert, low on supplies and low on morale. At night that desert gets cold. We **need** each other ... to huddle together for warmth. To exhort each other, during the day, to keep moving. To keep moving toward that promised land we once actually occupied.

Even a man I personally detest and would be happy to see gone - Joe Lieberman - serves a purpose, if only to give us one more Senate seat in the tally toward control.

Later we can sort it out.

And clean house.

But right now ...... we need each other more than we might be able to appreciate as we follow our various internal and moral compasses. Let us not divide and demoralize ourselves by our own actions. "Them" have done a very good job of that. Let us not play into their hands.

Our mission right now is to wrest control from the hands of those who would do the entire fucking planet harm for their own personal betterment.

This IS a time of war.

The war between good and evil

The War Between "Us" and "Them"

You are either with "Us" ...... or you're with "Them".

Keep your thinking at the essential level. Just by way of example, there should be no debate about Saddam. He doesn't matter. The essential truth is that our illegal government illegally invaded a sovereign country. There is nothing else that matters.

Don't debate whether or not some spying program at NSA is effective or not. The essence is that the illegal head of the illegal government did an I-L-L-E-G-A-L act by spying on American citizens. Nothing else should enter that debate, no matter how much "Them" wish to goad us into having that debate.

Essence.

Simple.

Black and White.

"Them".

and

"Us".

[Ezlivin]

1. As Pink Floyd once said

Us, and them
And after all we’re only ordinary men.
Me, and you.
God only knows it’s not what we would choose to do.
Forward he cried from the rear
And the front rank died.
And the general sat and the lines on the map
Moved from side to side.
Black and blue
And who knows which is which and who is who.
Up and down.
But in the end it’s only round and round.
Haven’t you heard it’s a battle of words
The poster bearer cried.
Listen son, said the man with the gun
There’s room for you inside.

I mean, they’re not gonna kill ya, so if you give ’em a quick short,
Sharp, shock, they won’t do it again. dig it? I mean he get off
Lightly, ’cos I would’ve given him a thrashing - I only hit him once!
It was only a difference of opinion, but really...i mean good manners
Don’t cost nothing do they, eh?

Down and out
It can’t be helped but there’s a lot of it about.
With, without.
And who’ll deny it’s what the fighting’s all about?
Out of the way, it’s a busy day
I’ve got things on my mind.
For the want of the price of tea and a slice
The old man died.

[Dunvegan]

2. I wholeheartedly agree...

...and your line, "We can eat our own when we have an abundance of food" is spot on.

War time calls for war tactics.

And, as soon as we win, we pull into line Lieberman, et. al. or cut them loose.

But not until we win.

Kicked and recommended.

[babylonsister]

3. Good job! Kicking for "Us"! nt

[Stinky The Clown]

4. Just to be clear .... about who us "Us" ..........

I want to make a clarification .... just to be clear to the nuance police amongst us ......

I include as "Us" any one - *any* one - who opposes this cabal. Greens ..... independents ..... pro-lifers ..... liberal Republicans ..... anyone who opposes.

I hestitated to include moderate or liberal Republicans, but we are at a time where our enemies' enemies are are our friends. True enough, they don't help us with our seat count and getting back control of Congress, but they could be useful in pushing the cabal from power. Even more than our gaining control, it is the removal and further and forever decimation of the cabal that matters most. Country before party.

[robcon]

5. This thread is reprehensible, IMO. Sounds like *

I'm surprised anyone on DU would write:

"This IS a time of war.

The war between good and evil

The War Between "Us" and "Them"

You are either with "Us" ...... or you're with "Them"."

Those are Bushisms, IMO. Subtleties, strategies, understanding and 'nuance' are our strengths. Thinking is a very liberal thing to do.

[Stinky The Clown]

6. Who said anything about not thinking

.... or .... I suppose we can navel gaze and keep losing.

I wish I felt the obvious sense of intellectual luxury you do.

But I don't. I feel like winning an election.

Bushisms ..... indeed ...... and by implication, does that make me a supporter?

You (and me, for that matter) are free to think as much as you (or I) wish. But make no mistake ..... if that 'thinking' results in the same sorts of fart-in-a-windstorm actions we've demonstrated in the past, we don't have much longer before thinking will declared a security threat.

Do you think for even a second that we're not under attack by the right? Do you think this is NOT a war for our own country?

It is. And to just smugly sit back and contemplate navels will result in utter defeat.

[lostnfound]

7. through the heart of every human being

In one sense, politically speaking, you make very good points.

In another...

If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere committing evil deeds, an it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?--Alexander Solzhenitsyn (The Gulag Archipelago)

And another..
There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root.--Henry David Thoreau (Walden)

Part of the confusion is caused by commonality we feel with those "hacking at the branches of evil" instead of those "striking at the root"

[Mythsaje]

8. Doesn't mean a damn thing

if the "moderates" or DLCers support the same kind of policies that are destroying this country. Yes, there may be a difference between the Liebermans and the Bushes of the world, but it sure isn't visible to the average non-voter who thinks they're all cut from the same cloth.

I've known a lot of people who don't participate because they think they're all the same, and, frankly, as long as those in power snub the ordinary citizen in order to advance the cause of corporations, all they'll be doing is reinforcing this assumption.

If a politician seems bent on sacrificing the middle class to the altar of corporate money, I'll be damned if I'll support them.

But, by all means, support whomever you like.

I, personally, place these sorts in the "them" category.

Edited for clarification.

[Iowa]

9. Nah...

Your opinion has merit. But a great many others have reached a different conclusion, and their opinions have merit too.

...But right now, people, we are wandering in a political desert, low on supplies and low on morale. At night that desert gets cold...

Some believe that the Liebermans of the world are sneaking into our camp, stealing our blankets and supplies (and giving them to the enemy), and destroying our morale by telling us that we should go along - for now.

"We have lots of time, later, to sort out all our politically correct, highly nuanced labels. We can eat our own when we have an abundance of food.

Or we can trim the dead-wood now and build a more lean, mean, fighting machine for the long haul. Some believe the stakes are too high to allow the Lieberman/Vilsack types to continue aiding the enemy. Some believe the collateral damage they cause supersedes the benefit of an empty "D" seat. Both viewpoints - your and theirs - have merit. I have reached a different conclusion than you. Both of our views have pluses and minuses. Ultimately we all make our own calculations and all the breast-beating in the world won't change that. Like you say, we're all on the same side.

[Stinky The Clown]

10. I think the difference is largely a matter of how long each of us ........

..... thinsk we have before we get past the point of no return. I think we need to get at **least** one house of Congress abck in 2006. If we continue as things are, with total Repiublican control, we may never have another chance.

It is my view that our country has never been in deeper shit than we are now. Not during the Civil War, not The Great Depression. Not WWII. And surely not Viet Nam.

But as you say ... we're all on the same side and these are opinions.

[Senator]

11. We should also stop listening to "Them"...

...when they continuously give us "advice" or "warnings" and have their well-trained, euphemedia lapdogs parrot it.

This advice like, "oh, you'll damage a candidate in the general by challenging him in the primary," is just their usual knee-jerk fear-mongering. Though it is often blamed by losers, there's no real reason to believe it. Lots of things effect election outcomes (theft comes to mind). A primary challenge, or the lack of it, is just a drop in the bucket of "reasons."

Now, lack of a primary challenge certainly leaves more cash available for consultants to rake in, but hardly any races (and NO Senate races) are lost for lack of money. But this "beltway belief" passes for conventional wisdom without objection. We need to watch this type of "strategy" carefully.

Call me DLC-hater, but the Dem v. Rep Party divide is less consistent and damaging than the Inside v. Outside Beltway divide.

There are two fronts in this war. We ignore one at our peril.

--

[AnneD]

12. Frankly,

DINO's only confuse people as to what the DEM's stand for. Liberman worked to pass the bankruptcy bill. Now others DEM's voted for it, but he was a ring leader. He needs to go-he was bought and paid for by the CC companies. Now this is not the only time he has turned his back on DEM principles. There have been too many times.
I like our big tent. I am pro choice, Harry Reid isn't, but over all, I consider him a DEM and back him. I disagreed with Robert's nomination to the SC, he voted for him. But he responds to the grassroots DEM's and he is acceptable.
Just because I am 'wondering in the desert and it get's cold at night' doesn't mean I embrace a snake to keep warm!.

[tomreedtoon]

13. I'd love it if just one Democrat said this - publicly.

I have seen so many Dem's "jockeying" to get the party's nomination with the same wishy-washy, gee-wouldn't-it-be-nice-if-you-voted-for-me statements that lost the last several elections.

You, Husb2Sparkly, are angry. I am angry. A lot of people are angry. Let me tell you about one of them.

My sister and her husband, whom I just saw at my mother's funeral, are conservative. They are worried about health care and retirement and their declining jobs. They are afraid of the future for themselves and their son.

What keeps them in the Republican camp is fear. Fear of the "N-word gangs" that will erupt out of the Saint Louis ghetto and come to their neighborhood, killing and raping. They are so afraid that they asked me to research a formula for nerve gas from the Anarchist's Cookbook, so they could plant bombs in their lawn when the hordes invaded. And they have firearms planted in hidden locations around their house for when the invasion starts.

And they are not morons, or evil. They are sensible. They have middle-class jobs, and they actually like one or two individual black people. They took care of my mother until her declining state required a rest home, which took all of her savings and almost took all of theirs.

But they have given up hope. They want the war in Iraq to end. And they know Bush won't do it. But they don't think any Democrat can do it either, or change anything else for the better. They are so entrapped by fear that nothing Clinton or Gore or any other Democrat says will help.

The only thing that might break through that fear...is righteous anger. Like yours. It might get them angry, which unlike fear wouldn't leave them hopeless. It might get them to vote against the Bushies. Unfortunately, too many Democrats - and too many people here - believe that "ideas" and "being in the right" and "reason" and "logic" will win the day. If this is war, has anyone ever heard of Britain's prime minister Chamberlain? His appeasement of Hitler seems pretty familiar. Even approved by a lot of people here.

You're right. This is war. Not just against the Bushies, but for the people who are too frightened to hope.

[sandnsea]

14. Turn 2 degrees

to the right or the left, as needed, and FIRE. I guarandamntee you you'll be hitting the right target and EVERYBODY will be firing in unison. I see everybody's positions on all the various issues, and that's all it would take, two little degrees to have a unified Democratic Party where NOBODY is selling out anything.