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[Name removed]

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[Rowdyboy]

1. Tonight he really got down in the gutter

Called both Kerry and Clark Republicans. This is so lame, I'm embarrassed for his supporters. Howard Dean is better than this.

[lurk_no_more]

18. Most of his supporters may be better than this

But he sure isn't, once can be a thoughtless gaff, twice is a definite character flaw.


And then there were none!
” JAFO”

[pocoloco]

37. My ,My, I thought it was because he wasn't getting enough

sleep.

[MoonRiver]

52. Are you sure about that?

This behavior is a long standing pattern.

[WilliamPitt]

2. .

.

[Name removed]

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[leyton]

4. This guy's gonna revolutionize politics how?

By calling his opponents Republicans? When he gets to Washington, I'm sure that he'll find that most of his opponents are Republicans.

[creativelcro]

113. Bottom line is that Kerry is a Republican.... Or not.... Depending

what it is the most advantageous position at the time....

[DerekGD]

5. Ignore Him

Kerry should just focus on jobs, the deficit, health and education, national security, and getting rid of Bush, ignore Dean and let him dig a bigger hole for himself.

[MaineDem]

98. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[ShaneGR]

6. this is supposed to make people vote for him???

???

[kerry-is-my-prez]

35. Don't you understand? Dean needs to raise money and saying things like

this will get his supporters going. They love this stuff.

I think that at times he says things to get himself attacked. His supporters will rally around him and send him more money. Just watch - he will get slammed for this and the money will flow in. He's not stupid - I think he knows exactly what he's doing. In addition, he also gets lots of media coverage for saying these sorts of things.

[fujiyama]

77. Funny though...

all the money he's raised hasn't translated into votes...

[democratreformed]

7. You know, that line caused so much trouble for Clark

that, I guess, he decided he might as well try it on someone else too.

[David Dunham]

8. Dean Is Hurting Himself, Big Time, With Such Comments

[Tatiana]

9. Is Dean projecting his own Republicanism on others?

Dunno.... just a thought. I don't understand what he hopes to accomplish from calling other Democratic candidates Republicans. Especially candidates who are more liberal than he is.

[MarkTwain]

41. One of the more formidable...

...scams of this process has been the presumed "liberalism" of one Doctor Dean.

A sham. Plain and simple to anyone who has thoroughly investigated both his record and his public statements.

[SeveneightyWhoa]

10. LMAO!

How pathetic. Dean's clearly quite desperate.
Republican, huh? Now when does Edwards get the honor of being called that by Dean? Funny that Dean's quick to call everyone a "Republican" even though he's the most Republicanesque out of anyone in the race.

[jenk]

11. Message to Kerry and Clark

never interfere with the enemy when they are destroying themselves


yaaaaaaaagh!

[David Dunham]

12. I agree. JK and WC should go after Bush. Ignore the Dr.

[John_H]

13. I hope Dean and my 4 yr. old never play Chutes & Ladders together

since they have similar responses to losing.

[liberalhistorian]

19. LOL!

I was just thinking the same thing! I'm really, really, really disappointed in Dean, I thought he was better and smarter than that. I think we're watching his campaign implode, especially since Trippi is gone now.

[Cha]

14. Dean is Fine!

kerry's inside the beltway corporate status with his YES vote on No Child Left Behind, The Patriot Act, and the Clincher ..The IWR is what is in the "Gutter".

[Tweed]

34. What a wonderful river in Egypt!

[GalleryGod]

107. Paddle, Guv'nuh! It's the "Dude !? Where'd all our $$$ Go Tour"

hubris...Hubris...HUBRIS!

[Eloriel]

15. Actually, Pete, he said he was financing his campaign

like Republicans do. Nice try (tho this seems sadly beneath your usual quality post).

[Dookus]

20. No, Eloriel...

that isn't true. You've read the quote.

I expect we'll hear him backtrack on MTP tomorrow.

[Name removed]

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[Eloriel]

71. I've read BOTH sentences -- have you?

Are you not aware that (1) spoken thoughts don't always translate well to the written word (esp. for an unscripted, "un-nuanced" guy) and (2) there's such a thing as hyperbole, which is a perfectly valid rhetorical device?

I'd agree with you wholeheartedly if the first sentence were all there was to that quote (at least, thank God, the NYT is not taking it out of context). But to ignore the full meaning of the TWO sentences is -- again, I'm sorry, but truly beneath your usual thoughtfulness.

I honestly don't care what you think of Dean -- I do care about intellectual honesty, and you've thrown that overboard with this post. Just not what I expect from you, one of DU's more thoughtful posters, at all.

[Name removed]

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[Eloriel]

90. Hyperbole, Pete. Pure hyperbole.

I mean, c'mon. It's factually inaccurate, isn't it? What ELSE could it be but hyperbole? If you take it literally, which is what you're trying to do, it actually casts aspersons on you that you're unfamiliar with the rhetorical device/figure of speech he's using. He'd be a FOOL to try to pass "Kerry is a Republican" off as anything but.

You can't take an assertion that everyone knows is factually inaccurate (and which is clearly demonstrated to be a figure of speech in the 2nd sentence) and try to make it anything BUT hyperbole.

But have it your way if you think it makes either Kerry look good, you look astute, or Dean look bad.

Perhaps you're just using a diversionary tactic here -- attacking the attacker in order o divert attention from the substance of Dean's critique, which is pretty damning for someone who CLAIMS he's spent his whole life fighting special interests and will continue to do so.

Got any substantive defense for Kerry's special interests lovefest?

I thought not.

[For PaisAn]

110. No

calling Clark a Republican (present tense) is not factual. Clark has never been a Republican. It's dishonest and a cheap shot. Kerry has done the same thing to Clark. I lost respect for Kerry some time ago and now I've lost respect for Dean also. And just last week I was saying how honest Dean was and how much I respected him. Another one goes to the bottom of my list. Right now the only three candidates deserving respect are Clark, Kucinich and Sharpton.

[GalleryGod]

108. The Play, "GYPSY- Act II- Scene 2: "Desperate People do desperate things"

Or...End of Story, Morning Glory":silly: OR "and that's the fact,Jack!":eyes: OR homage' to Robert Blake(prisoner #234211)
"And you can take that (the quote) to Da' Bank!!"


Or Sheriff Andy Taylor to the County Clerk:

"HOW-ard! Just WHAT have you gone and done!":smoke:


G.G.

[digno dave]

93. no hyperbole involved here

We've seen where "un-nuanced" gets us when it presides in the White House. They played the video of him saying that on the news tonight. No mistaking it, the tone was piercing and sans hyperbole.

[GalleryGod]

106. Sorry! That Qualifies As an AA2 Remark ; Che Guevera you ain't, Guv'nuh

AA2*


Nicholas-has pretty much vetted his oh-so-cozy relationship with Corporations while in power in Vermont-so-hence,this is the classic and classless actions by the "Hey,Dude, Where's All My Money" Campaign.

Thanks for the DIRECT quote...'scuse me whilst I puke the sky





*AA2- apparent asshole (Old English)









:puke:

[waldenx]

16. fact

Kerry said, "The only people that have contributed to my campaigns to the U.S. Senate are individual Americans. Now are some of those individual Americans lobbyists? Yeah, sure."

[Rowdyboy]

17. The First Law of Holes

When you find yourself deep in a hole, stop digging. Dean needs to learn this lesson.

[question everything]

21. Proves that it was not the "I have a scream" performance

with or without the special microphone.

Dean lost in Iowa and will lose next week and will drop out in another week because voters are afraid of him. Afraid of his unpredictability, of his anger, of his intensity, of his black and white view of the world just like.... RW, Limbaugh, O'Reilley, Coulter etc.

I am sure that someplace there is a poll showing that even when he was at the top, there were as many who had a negative view of him as those with a positive one.

[Eloriel]

74. No, voters are afraid of the false image the media

and the other candidates (thru pushpolling, negative attack ads, etc.) have created of him.

[Name removed]

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[For PaisAn]

23. Does that go for Kerry also?

As in Kerry calling Clark a Republican on January 9, 2004.

Shouldn't we call for him to draw the line also

Press release from John Kerry's website:

January 09, 2004

For Immediate Release

-snip-
“If you like Dick Cheney so much that you want another Republican lobbyist in the White House, then Wes Clark may be your guy. But if you want a fighter with a thirty-five year track record of taking on the special interests, then John Kerry is your candidate,” said Kerry spokesman Mark Kornblau.
-snip-

http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/releases/pr_2004_0109c.html

[Tatiana]

31. Point well taken. Same goes for Kerry too. n/t

[janx]

24. During the time Dean was the "front runner," he was attacked

constantly--during the so-called debates and via other venues. First there was the Osama ad and the "dirty tricks" phone calls and push polling. Other candidates ganged up on him during debates.

Clark implied that he was a draft dodger by pointing out that Dean was skiiing in Aspen while Clark was taking bullets or some such thing.

And now, when Dean finally starts fighting back, people are ASTOUNDED, AMAZED, INSULTED! :wow:

Dean is not afraid to call things as he sees them. People got all bent out of shape when he entered the race because he called accused Dems of being "Bush lite," and we heard mewling and puking about that on this board for months--sometimes we still hear it. But the fact is that Dean had a purpose in doing so, as it served to light a fire under the backsides of some Democrats who no doubt would have taken on this race as Dem politics as usual, afraid to realize and define an administration and a situation for what it really is.

Dean's not going to roll over, friends. He's going to fight back.

[Name removed]

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[janx]

26. That's your opinion. Not mine.

And not that of very many other people.

[Capn Sunshine]

27. Only a Kerry partisan would attempt that interpretation

He fights with our tacit approval and takes our pulse daily.

Does the Kerry blog go direct to HQ?

My impression is the current in the Kerry campiagn is one way only.

[Name removed]

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[clarknyc]

50. "(Dean's) campaign also takes your money...

and blows 40 million of it." Prove it.

Prove 40 million was "blown" and not spent on real campaign expenditures. The money was raised to be spent. 40+ million was raised over the course of all of 2003, with much being spent over that same timeframe building a national campaign. The Dean campaign never had that total amount on hand as it crossed into 2004 or at any point and to imply so is disingenuous. Look, some of the expenditures may not have been smart. I don't know, haven't seen the books. But that's not your accusation, is it?

[bicentennial_baby]

59. How about 32.5 million?

Presidential hopeful Howard Dean lived up to his campaign slogan "people-powered Howard" last year, making campaign staff and consultants one of his biggest expenses as he spent all but about $8.5 million of the record $41 million he raised.

Dean spent more than $6.5 million on staff salaries and related expenses, and more than $2 million on consultants. Ads were another big cost, accounting for at least $7 million, and he spent at least $4.5 million on direct mail, campaign finance reports showed Saturday.

http://www.dunnconnect.com/articles/2004/01/30/ap/Headlines/d80e7euo2....

[clarknyc]

70. Not even close.

Some expenditures may be questionable, but most were legitimate costs necessary to build a national campaign. Some of the funds may have been "blown", but not nearly the amounts that you and PeteNYC are claiming. Not even close.

[ModerateMiddle]

89. Hey, maybe that's his "jobs" plan

He is personally gonna hire all Americans to work on his campaign!!

[clarknyc]

53. And one more thing.

"And then he has the gumption to call John Kerry a Republican."

He didn't say Kerry *was* a Republican, he said he approached campaign finance *like* a Republican.

If you've got a problem with nuance, you're supporting the wrong guy...

[Name removed]

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[RUMMYisFROSTED]

78. Exactly what part of

"has the same financing habits" don't you understand?

Kerry is second only to Edwards in his receipt of $2000 donations. And Edwards is second only to Chimp. That's how Pugs(corporate whores) do finance. Sometimes the truth hurts.

http://www.opensecrets.org/presidential/donordems.asp

[Name removed]

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[RUMMYisFROSTED]

91. Exactly. "Part" is the operative word.

Turns out we've got more than one Republican in the Democratic race," Dr. Dean told reporters on his campaign bus. "I've always said I thought Wes Clark was a Republican. Now apparently John Kerry has the same financing habits.



Look at Kerry's source of funding. Compare it to the uber-Republican, Chimp.
www.opensecrets.org


Now look at the most critical votes over the last three years. IWR, Patriot Act, NCLB, MediCare(missed), Partial Birth Abortion(missed), Homeland Security......




If it walks like an insider, and it quacks like a Rebublican...

[emulatorloo]

58. From Day One Dean has Name-Called the Other Dem Candidates n/t

[Cheswick2.0]

28. It must have been Kerry's consistant votes in favor if Bush's aggenda

that confused us all. What was his record this past year, 30% of the time he spent voting for bush's favorite bill and resolution and the rest of the time he didn't show up at all.

I think stooping would be more up Kerry's alley. He is the one doing the push polling and 4am robo-calling.

[ozone_man]

30. Right, he's so far up Bush's back side

voting for the war and Patriot Act and NCLB, that he might as well be a Republican. Then he chastises Dean for suggesting that it is not safer with SH caught or that OBL should get a hearing. These are all RW talking points and Kerry should be ashamed to call himself a liberal. I expect as much from Lieberman and he did exactly that, no surprise there, but Kerry is just an oportunist, the kind of insider that we need term limits for.

[Name removed]

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[jpgpenn]

36. Kerry shouldn't complain too much, he is just as bad!

[Name removed]

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[For PaisAn]

44. PeteNYC

Check my post # 23 which backs up the fact that Kerry has done the same.

[Name removed]

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[For PaisAn]

51. Kornblau is Kerry's spokesman,

isn't he? So if Kerry had an objection, this press release would not have been issued. It's obvious that Kerry approved, he just let's other people do his dirty work. The press release states that Clark IS a republican lobbyist. That is a far cry from the explanation in your post stating that Clark has voted for Republicans in the past, which at least would have been accurate. Either way it's dirty politicking in my book.

[MarkTwain]

38. Actually, Dean ...

.... could not have stooped much further. His "miraculous" candidacy and pre-maturely presumed coronation as the nominee are rapidly being flushed down the electoral toilet.

For the sake of the republic, thankfully.

[Hoppin_Mad]

39. Isn't this a dupe of the another thread ?

Discussing the EXACT same thing ?

 

---

 
     We've just BEGUN to fight !     

[bicentennial_baby]

42. x4!

I think the mods are out partying tonight :P

[janx]

43. Yes. n/t

[MarkTwain]

45. Should that be the case....

... what does it say about the reaction of this progressive community to the outrageous, politically immature, and simply rotten comments of the candidate who made them?

Except that this is not the first time we have seen such inappropriate behavior on the part of that candidate, is it?

One might want to consider the message instead of the multiple messengers.

[NashVegas]

46. Look on the Bright Side

At least he's saying these things himself, openly, and not relying on anonymous PAC groups to run TV commercials morphing Kerry's picture into Richard Perle. How much bravery would that take?

[meow mix]

48. "calling John Kerry a Republican" haha

welcome to clark-world ;p

and oh,
its so terrible now!!
all of a sudden...
OUTRAGED!! GRRAR!
haha =)

[Ramsey]

49. What's the point of this?

Who is your audience? The true believers already agree with you. The Dean people and those with open minds are turned off by you. What is the real point of a thread like this? Dean didn't call Kerry a Republican, he likened some policy of his to a Republican stance.

You know I could counter with some awful thing Kerry said about Dean, but since you know that, I won't "stoop".

[Name removed]

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[clarknyc]

62. See post #53.

Dean didn't call Kerry a Republican. He likened his campaign fund-raising approach as Republican.

[Name removed]

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[WillyT]

55. Ya Know Pete... Somehow, I Don't Think You're Sorry To Say It At All !!!

At least that's the feeling I get from looking at your other posts here tonight!

:shrug:

[Name removed]

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[RUMMYisFROSTED]

79. Well, If the race ended now...

Kerry would be in second, Pete. Maybe he should "lose like a man."


http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/primaries/pages/scorecard/

[OneBlueSky]

56. attacking other Democratic candidates is counterproductive . . .

all we're doing is providing Bush with ammunition for the general election . . . let's just agree that any of our candidates will be a vast improvement over what we have now, faults and all . . . none of them are truly "outsiders," and every one of them will play the party game if nominated . . .

I support Kerry, but I'm not about to attack Dean or anyone else . . . the good doctor has contributed a great deal to how campaigns are conducted, and that will be a lasting legacy . . . and unless he lets his mouth deal himself out, there should be a prominent place for him in the new Democratic administration . . .

[Duder]

57. On behalf of the progressive community...

Thank you Howard for saying what many of us have been saying about some Democrats in Washington for a long time.

And if Kerry supporters want to follow him into the gutter...

They might want to consider the message...

'Sen. John F. Kerry D-Mass., who has made a fight against corporate special interests a centerpiece of his front-running campaign for the Democratic presidential nomination, has raised more money from paid lobbyists than any other senator over the past 15 years, federal records show.'

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A64727-2004Jan30.html

[zulchzulu]

63. What a comic assumption

"on behalf of the progressive community...."

Funny!

[Duder]

67. For more comedy...

See post #45.

[Name removed]

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[Duder]

73. Quoting the Washington Post...

And the talking points seem to be relevant to both parties. As for being more precise, I guess we'll have to wait:

'Kerry said on Jan. 19 that he would "happily release any lobbyist meeting I've ever had," but he has yet to do so. Cutter said Kerry will not release records until he compiles data on every meeting over the past 19 years, which will be a "pretty lengthy process." Kerry will not release it "piecemeal," she said.'

[janx]

60. LINK, PLEASE.

There are over 50 messages discussing something Dean said, but we don't know what he said. In another thread we get an excerpt (out of context, as usual), and we still don't know what Dean said in his speech.

Until I can see a transcript of the speech, or at least something that would indicate context, I can't take these accusations seriously.

[zulchzulu]

61. Dean is irrelevant

It will be very evident this Tuesday.

He's done. All that's left in his puffery is pathetic desperation.

[jenk]

66. lol

puffery :)

tomorrow Dean will claim Kerry took candy from a baby and conspired with Stalin.

[GoldenOldie]

72. Dean Irrelevant?????

By whose standards???? Dr. Dean has forced the candidates to talk about the issues that all Americans are truly interested in and not the professional political scripted crap that Washington professionals use to scam the voters. As an elder that has seen many Presidential elections, I am once again excited about this Presidential campaign......thanks to Dr. Dean.

[Corgigal]

75. No Kerry isn't a republican

he just votes like one and lately just plays one on TV. You guys (Kerry voters) don't give a flip about splitting the Democratic party you just hope that the GOP lite take our place.

[Name removed]

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[IndianaGreen]

85. There is nothing progressive about PATRIOT Act or IWR

I refuse to adopt the Orwellian language that the Kerry campaign seems to have adopted.

[Name removed]

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[IndianaGreen]

92. but Russ Feingold voted against PATRIOT Act

and I don't hear Kerry calling for its outright repeal.

A bad vote is bad. Failure to rescind the bad vote is worse.

[NashVegas]

82. He Also Said Kerry Was Lying

When Kerry says he takes no special interest money.

After seeing the 4th quarter reports, it looks like there may be some substance to that charge.

[IndianaGreen]

83. If you weren't on our side of the barricades on the war in Iraq

don't expect us to come to your side of the barricades now.

[Name removed]

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[Cheswick2.0]

99. What do you base your vote on if not that?

If you can't base you vote on something as plainly politically expedient as Kerry's vote for IWR (forget NCLB and the patriot act I guess) what would you base your vote on? Thousands of innocent dead don't count, only the political ambitions of the anointed candidate?
And what has Kerry done to win anyones support anyway? He has spent his whole career in Kennedy's shadow playing it safe.

[Name removed]

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[wabeewoman]

84. Listen you RW media, quit bashing Dean!

Oh, this is DU??? Sorry. With friends and fellow democrats to twist our candidates words, why worry about our enemies??

[genius]

86. Playing fair and telling the truth aren't Dean's strong suits.

THat's why he's unpopular.

[MarkTwain]

94. Absolutely correct....

... and that's why this candidacy was flawed from the beginning. Except in the hopes and aspirations of the politically naive and the eternally optimistic.

[Democat]

95. Does Dean have a ""Scorched Left"" policy now?

If I can't have the White House, none of you can!

[GalleryGod]

109. Apparently,Dem...APPARENTLY

Sad-Sad-Sad......:mad:



Sheriff Andy Taylor to Howard Sprague:

" Now, How-ARRRRD! Just WHAT have you gone and done ,NOWWwwwww?!"

One has to just love the applicability of Mayberry Wisdom on Modern Day Politics. ('All wisdom flows from Barney Fife!' James Carville)


Sad,Sad,Sad.

G.G.:smoke:

[Myra]

96. Kerry called Clark a Republican Pete. Would that be across the line

you now want to draw?

[Guaranteed]

97. Yeah...it's almost as bad as calling someone crazy. nt

[Zech Marquis]

100. these attacks make us all look bad

the target should be sending * back to crawford, Texas, NOT calling so and so a Republican.

[JNelson6563]

101. Democrats have long been the laughing stock

and you can thank the Dems who have cowered under their desks during the rise of fascism in America.

Julie

[molly]

102. He's like the bully on the playground that got whupped

poor thing!

[Darth_Kitten]

103. Did he in fact call Kerry a republican???????

or something to the fact that there is really no difference between the Repubs and Democrats?

I really hope this isn't another case of we think Dean said that so we will bash him further?

I'm really sad about the level of vitriol levelled towards Dean. He's a true democrat and has stood up for his values LONG before Clark became a democrat. And as for Kerry, I don't know about him, I really don't have anything against him, but his wife until recently was a repub (probably only is now a democrat for political show).

Dean distinguished himself from the field and got most of the other candidates in line, and they are reaping the media attention,not him. It's a shame, actually.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

111. Yes - but who is more positive for the party - Clark or Dean?

Dean has worked against theparty several times in this campaign and also sided with the Republicans against the Democrats on the Medicare/Social Security and the Welfare Reform. The Republicans and the media quoted him widely to help them sell their Medicare bill.

Then Dean calls them cockroaches, Bush-lite, Republicans. He bashes Clinton and Kennedy (2 of our top leaders). He has ripped up and insulted ALL of the candidates NOT just 1 or 2 like the rest of them (or none - like Clark or Braun). He's even had to issue several apologies to them. He has insulted the Democratic Party many times.

Clark has shown nothing but respect to the Democratic Party. He's been respectful and has even complimented fellow candidates. He has praised Clinton and other Dems. He has said postive things about the Democratic Party.

Now who would YOU rather have representing the party?

[GalleryGod]

105. As Dandy Don used to Say, "H'ard- You gotta Know When to Fold 'em"

Nice pick-up, Pete.

Apparently the DU Memes have reached H'ard's briefcase.:nopity: :dunce: :silly: :crazy:

'Scuse Me Guv'nuh, I gotta:puke:


G.G.:smoke:

[HuckleB]

112. Link? Where's the link?

How did this thread go on for so long without a link?