Dean calls Clark a Republican again. Calls Kerry one too for good measure

[NNN0LHI]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=615&ncid=716&e=13&u=/nm/20040201/pl_nm/campaign_kerry_dc

<snip>Criticizing Kerry, Dean told reporters in Tucson: "It turns out we've got more than one Republican in the Democratic race. I've already said I thought (retired Gen.) Wes Clark was a Republican and now apparently John Kerry has the same financing habits."


Referring to this remark, Kerry said the outspoken former governor had previously made comments for which he had had to apologize. "I would respectfully suggest that that may be just one more of them."

more

[David Dunham]

1. it's time for dr. dean to drop out and resume his medical practice

[ShaneGR]

56. He's turning himself into a COMPLETE chump, unfortunately

Dr. Dean's campaign was supposed to be about bringing Democrats together, unfortunately he got WAY sidetracked on trying to bring us down. I'll be happy when the primaries are over.

[bowens43]

143. Speaking the truth certainly is frowned upon.....

[1971]

150. What truth? Dean's "truth"? The only straight shooter is Wes Clark.

JANUARY 31, 2003

"I have said I am not a candidate. I have not raised political money. I am not affiliated as a member of a political party," he said.

http://www.forward.com/issues/2003/03.01.31/news6.html

[Bucky]

153. Open letter to Dr Dean: Please quit being a prick. Sincerely, Bucky

Someone got a stamp for this letter?

[maddezmom]

154. LOL :)

[Abigail147]

156. Yes Howard Dean does have a prick.

Too bad the DNC and the DLC can't steal it for Kerry/Edwards and the rest of their boys.

[Dookus]

2. once again...

Dean and Dean alone gets to decide who's a democrat. Tiresome.

[bowens43]

144. Dean and Dean alone?

I think pretty much everyone agrees with him , at least about Clark....

[DerekGD]

3. Will the real moderate please stand up.

I wonder if attacking Kerry for being in the pocket of special interests was the idea of Dean's new manager, a Washington insider, and a registered lobbyist?

[mdmc]

132. welcome to DU, Derek

I like Dean.

[MarkTwain]

137. Right on Target...

...and but another of the many aspects of Howard Dean which spells h-y-p-o-c-r-i-s-y.

[xultar]

4. Tisk Tisk Tisk...n/t

[Jack_Dawson]

5. Dean HANG IT UP

Grab Lieberman and go buy some beers. It's over.

[Renew Deal]

65. I was thinking that same thing.

He is quickly becoming an asterisk in history.

[Abigail147]

157. They don't keep the same company.

I do not really give a rip if they are Democrat or not. I just like them to talk to me like an adult -- like Howard Dean, who does not speak in platitudes nor says only what you want to hear. Howard Dean is a realist and none of the others are even in his league when it comes time to walk the walk not just the talk.

[mlawson]

6. Oh, THAT will help him a lot....

:eyes:

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Abigail147]

158. Please delete

[Tweed]

8. Thank you Howard!

Yes Howard, you are the true Democrat, you with the Grade A+ from the NRA, you who plans on taxing the middle class, and you who support the death penalty.

Anyone think it's odd that he hasn't called Lieberman a Republican yet? I think just about every DUer has.

[adadem]

It will come soon

and welcome to DU :hi:

[Shanty Oilish]

25. That would be odd, not pointing to Lieberman

But, Lieberman has been a registered Democrat for over 30 years. That helps!

[sangha]

29. It shows Dean's hypocrisy

Lieberman isn't on fire on the polls, so why should Dean attack him.


Besides, they have lot in common

[XanaDUer]

124. Well, actually

Lieberman is to the Left of Howard.

JOEMENTUM BUILDS!

[lurk_no_more]

90. Anyone think it's odd that he hasn't called Lieberman a Republican yet?

Because, like himself dean doesn't think Lieberman is a Republican.

I can't wait to watch him tank yet further and faster, like a snowball in hell.


And then there were none!
” JAFO”

[acmavm]

9. Dean reminds me of a combativeEddie Haskel.

.

[Jerseycoa]

10. I knew it couldn't last,

all this harmony and shit. :7

[Anwen]

31. LOL

It was too good to be true :)

[MrSlayer]

11. And just when I was starting to warm to the guy too.

The Doctor is ill.

[mzmolly]

30. Keep in mind the whole Dean's *unelectable thing* came from Mr Clark first

and it was quite an effective lie as 40% of Iowa voters voted for their second choice.

Google it if your in doubt.

[Dookus]

No...

I believed Dean was unelectable long before Clark got in the race.

And if Dean can't win a Democratic primary, why should we believe he can beat Bush?

[John_H]

110. No, voters with common sense verified the Dean is unelectable thing

Check IA and NH returns, current polls if you are in doubt.

[Hoppin_Mad]

12. I wish he'd cut Clark a little more slack -nt-

[maddezmom]

13. so much for unity

thank god I didn't fall for it.

[blm]

32. heheh...I saw your subject and was ready to reply...

"aren't you glad you didn't fall for it?"

I LOL when I saw the rest of your post.

[maddezmom]

41. yes, to answer the question....hehe

All our guys are all fighting for the top spot, the unity threads at DU crack me up. JMO

[texasmom]

14. That's too bad...

it doesn't reflect well on him.

[nightperson]

15. Speaking of doctors, maybe it's time for "an intervention"?

Maybe he might want to just take some time off and generally chill. He's had a wild ride. How messy is this flameout gonna get?

[ACPS65]

21. lol

.

[MarkTwain]

128. Considering what we have seen....

... these past ten days, I think that the "bottom" might still be a long way off. He seems to have the capacity for political immaturity and petulance that is unique.

[corporatewhore]

16. Oh they are all repubs save for kucinich and sharpton i mean come on

kerry accepted from pnac dean accepted from aipac

[Toucano]

17. He's a uniter, not a divider.

Poor Howard. I hoped for more from you.

[zulchzulu]

18. I can't wait for Russert to skewer Dean tomorrow

It's going to be quite interesting.

[ShaneGR]

58. Russert gets to end Dean's candidacy?

How fitting, the man who started Dean's candidacy by skewering Dean will get to END Dean's candidacy by skewering him again.

[bicentennial_baby]

19. Jesus Christ

Every time is start to warm up to the guy, he opens his fucking mouth again... :mad:

[Bonobo]

33. You took the words out of my mouth. eom

[Leilani]

104. That's exactly what I was thinking

I felt really bad about what the media did to him...& was starting to root for him to make a comeback. Hoping he could win against the media.

But then he had to ruin it.

[DerekGD]

20. He didn't need a new manager to go negative did he?

I thought they might have decided that wasn't such a good strategy given that it hasn't worked. The appeals to sympathy haven't worked either. Litmus tests, screaming like a lunatic, threatening to pick up the toys and go home, none of it seems to be working.

[David Dunham]

23. Does Dean Think Gore, who took lobbyist money, Is a Republican Too?

[mzmolly]

22. oooooh, Love it! GO DEAN!!!!

:toast:

[Dookus]

27. You love when he lies

about the two major candidates that are decidedly to the left of him? :shrug:

[jpgpenn]

34. you really enjoy seeing the man melting away further huh?

[ModerateMiddle]

38. interesting position for Dean to take

from the WP article accusing Kerry of taking lobbyist money:

He has raised nearly $27,000 from oil and gas companies, tops of the remaining Democratic candidates; $34,000 from health maintenance organizations, second to Dean; and $18,500 from pharmaceutical companies, third behind Dean and Sen. Joseph I. Lieberman

[ShaneGR]

60. I do feel bad for some of the Dean supporters

I know how hard it is to let go when your candidate falls apart.

[lurk_no_more]

24. Nice

And just yesterday, some dean supporters were saying just how much they admired Clark and how some wanted to align the two camps for the good of the party.

Maybe dean's supporters need to check in with dean and his new CEO and find out just how their supposed to feel about Clark this week.

The man (and I use the term loosely) is a slug.


And then there were none!
” JAFO”

[Jerseycoa]

43. I love it

when lurk_no_more pulls those punches. :smoke:

[lurk_no_more]

74. Trust me

when it comes to howard dean on DU, I do pull my punches just to stay active here.

At times my keyboard has teeth marks in it because I can't post how much I really, really detest this guy!

It wouldn't surprise me at all if I read that his parents paid other kids to be his friend.


And then there were none!
” JAFO”

[AnnitaR]

26. Looks like I'm back to no one but Clark...

Dean just couldn't keep his pie-hole shut could he????

This race is sickening me to the core. :puke:

Thank god I have Clark.

[Rowdyboy]

28. And Dean drops further in my opinion

I feel sorry for his supporters. His ego has overtaken his senses.

[ozone_man]

35. Kerry's money comes from lawyers, lobbyists, and himself.

What's not Republican about that?

[sangha]

39. The lobbyists

I don't think the Republicans get moch money from union and environmental lobbyists

[Blitz]

50. Lawyers are all a bunch of Republicans, huh?

Somebody should tell the ACLU and the ATLA.

[SharonAnn]

96. There are plenty of Republican lawyers. They're the ones who

tell the corporations how far they can go with their actions and hopefully still stay out of trouble. They're the ones that sue on patent infringement. They're the ones who fight every single disability claim, discrimination claim, product liability claim, etc.

Trust me. There are plenty of them and they get paid very, very well. Better than most lawyers (including John Edwards) who work primarily for individual plaintiffs.

[ozone_man]

98. You miss the point.

Of course there are many Democratic lawyers. The point is that they are a major part of Kerry's contributions as they are for Edwards, only more so. To top it off, Kerry uses over $6M of his own money and that is a drop in the bucket for him.

[krkaufman]

114. I don't know, maybe a voting record?

Jaysus, you make me have to support Kerry? Come on. There's more to this thing than winning. The candidates need to have some integrity.

[lcordero]

36. damn

talk about throwing stones in a glass house

[Rose Siding]

37. Overlook Kerry's corporate cash jones!

Just because he's in deeper than Ted Stevens or Frist or all the other repub Senators, doesn't mean we aren't all scared enough of Bush to vote for him!

[sangha]

40. Kerry does not accept donations from Corporations

That's completely untrue, and I challenge you to post a link

[KittyWampus]

52. Kerry Gets Money From Corporations By Skirting The Law

Just because its legal doesn't mean its ethical.

Why not just admit that recieving large sums from Industry Lobbyists is how Corporations funnel money to Candidates.

[sangha]

86. Then call the cops

Bring a link. I'm still waiting.

[Lobo_13]

88. How about this?

http://www.opensecrets.org/presidential/sector.asp?id=N00000245&cycle=2004

Keep in mind that these contributions are part of his 12 mil that war raised up to q3 of last year. I'd be willing to bet that giving patterns haven't changed all that much.

[Lobo_13]

100. Nothing to say in regards to the truth of Kerry fundraising?

I figured as much.

Burying your head in the sand is not going to help your situation.

[DIBL]

105. Kerry's fundraising isn't the issue in this thread

The issue is Dean's pompous attitude which he demostrates by callously calling anybody he perceives as a threat a Republican.

I have no problem whatsoever with Dean raising questions about Kerry's financing or Clark's Republican voting past in a civil and facual way. It contributes to the democratic debate and helps voters make better informed decisions. But for him to start calling anybody he dislikes a Republican crosses the lines of decency in my opinion. It's this whole holier-than-thou, I'm the only true Liberal attitude that ticks me off.

[krkaufman]

116. Dean is a "partyist"

Dean's accusations are ridiculous. If he wants to call Clark a Republican because Clark voted for Reagan, then he's saying he wants to lose the General Election in November.

Dean was my #2. (sigh)

[Rose Siding]

147. Of course his fundraising is the issue

That's exactly what Dean was talking about. We expect the repubs to be bought off or supported entirely by bundled contribs. When similar fundraising methods are discovered about a dem, the comparison isn't exactly otherworldly.

[isbister]

42. He's angry

and needs a class (or a nap).

I hope he uses the two week vacation he's taking wisely.

[RetroLounge]

44. I'm sorry, what did he say that's not true?

about Kerry that is.

I've gotten over the Clark thing, I wish Dean had too. He (Clark) may be a Johnny-come-lately Democrat, but he seems to be a good, strong one, with a fantastic grasp of the grass roots support needed, and comes down on the correct side on the issues I care about.

Kerry? Not even close...

[Renew Deal]

75. You have to be kidding.

Did you realize that one of the many reasons Dean is losing is saying that he is a Democrat and everyone else isn't?

Kerry is such a republican that the Democratic party has made him the front runner. Sure

[bowens43]

145. That's a distortion. Dean did NOT call everyone else

a Republican. He called Clark a republican and anyone willing to look at his record knows that he is correct. And despite the misleading subject line for this thread, Dean didn't call Kerry a Republican.

[_NorCal_D_]

45. Dean just doesn't get it.

He simply does not realize that it was this type of crap that sent his popularity dropping like a rock. Inevitably, it will also cost him his Presidential candidacy.

[bicentennial_baby]

48. Let's hope so

I've tried to give Dean a break, but this is ridiculous. It reeks of desperation.

[retyred]

46. Someone need to call deans wife

and tell her to up his dosage, this guy is borderline psychotic. What a sad excuse for a Democrat.

I really hope you dean supporters are proud of your candidate today.



retyred in fla
“Good-Night Paul, Wherever You Are”
So I read this book

[fujiyama]

134. LOL...can't help myself...

but that was pretty funny. Dean's wife seems like a nice lady. If I had to choose between him and her as my doc, I'd go with her. She seems like a CALM person. Too bad it seemingly hasn't rubbed off on him.

I always got the impression that he was arrogant and he seems so cocksure. Similar to another Yalie who graduated around the same time, who's name I shall not mention. He may or may not be in real life, but that's certainly how he appears and I get the feeling that many in IA and NH felt that way too...

Funny though how he didn't mention Lieberman...

[KittyWampus]

47. I'm Laughing.

[Shanty Oilish]

49. He'd be tombstoned for remarks like that

in some quarters...

Dean's got a lot to offer, but he just can't seem to do anything right in this campaign. It's been too easy for the press to depict him as a buffoon.

I keep hoping things will improve, but there's not much time left for Dean to be taken seriously.

[MarkTwain]

51. Thankfully, he's deconstructing....

.... before the highly premature coronation of him as the nominee was completed.

It was always presumed that he would have been an ineffectual candidate against the Rove machine, but with this type of behavior, Rove would not have had to break a sweat in the general.

What a shame that he is doing this to a very loyal, albeit somewhat politically unseasoned, following.

Back to Vermont, Doctor Dean. We have had enough of your petulance and selfishness.

[pacifictiger]

53. A lot of political campaigning is pure theatre

look at british politics on c-span sometime to get a real lesson on how political bickering really works. Actually comments like that might encourage republicans to actually start to take notice of the democrats! Reverse psychology perhaps?

[zulchzulu]

54. As Carville said next to me in Des Moines watching election results...

Put a fork in Dean. He's done.

[Name removed]

61. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ShaneGR]

62. Steve McMahon, Dean media consultant

Said the same thing to GQ magazine on the night of the Iowa vote. He said, "It's over."

[nightperson]

66. Not to sound

too much like Bernadine Dohrn or the Manson family, but: "Bring the Fork! Bring the Fork!"

[Lobo_13]

55. He didn't call him a republican

He said he has the same fund-raising habits as republicans. Which is true. He's a special interest clone.

[Julien Sorel]

59. What part of 'we've got more than one Republican in the

Democratic race' do you not understand?

[Lobo_13]

69. I didn't see Kerry's name in that sentence.

He could have been talking about Kucinich. All he said about Kerry is that he has similar financing habits to Republicans.

[Julien Sorel]

85. ROFL

As I've said before, dishonesty and a susceptibility to delusions have sunk Dean's campaign -- and many of his supporters.

[Julien Sorel]

57. The Inspector Clouseau of

former presidential candidates strikes again. What new discovery will the good Inspector make? Tune in tomorrow for the next episode of the Pink Campaigner, when he reveals Al Sharpton's long but previously well-hidden ties to the Ku Klux Klan.

And remember -- Dean's electable!

[QC]

63. Every time I start to recover my early admiration for Dean,

he reminds me why I grew to find him so distasteful.

If attacking the other Democrats didn't work for him in Iowa and New Hampshire, why does he think it will work now?

It's time for him to piss on the fire and call in the dogs.

[knight_of_the_star]

64. Should he muzzle himself for his own sake?

Every time he's been opening it it has had a nasty habit of doing something INCREDIBLY stupid. And to think that I liked him once.

[ShaneGR]

68. No crap, I saw him speak last July and I loved the guy

But as time passed and I heard more and more of his nasty quotes I just found myself going, "Shut up!"

[knight_of_the_star]

73. Yes but

He seems to have been steadily going downhill since he first called Clark a Republican.

I swear, he needs to muzzle himself for his own sake one of these days.

[Dookus]

70. No... no muzzle

let him keep speaking - it will just hasten his inevitable slide back to obscurity.

[KissMyAsscroft]

67. Well, compared to him they are republicans...

Clark talks the talk but has no record to show for it, and Kerry is a waffling politician, not a liberal.

The truth hurts.

[Dookus]

72. Dean's not fit

to carry Kerry's jockstrap when it comes to being a real Democrat.

And Clark's positions are decidedly to the left of Deans. This is just more intemperate desperation on the part of Dean.

[DemBones DemBones]

87. Dean's record is centrist, Kerry's is liberal, so

Dean calls Kerry a Republican?

Howard is much like Dubya, claiming up is down, left is right, right is left.

After all, when Howard was governor, Vermont Republicans joked that they didn't really have to run anyone against him, he was Republican enough.

[corporatewhore]

93. i have to disagree kerrry AND deans were centrist

NAFTA anybody?

[Lobo_13]

97. Kerry's not a centrist

He's a "me too" Democrat.

[OKNancy]

103. You don't want to listen

I just watched as person after person talked about Clark's record. He went out on a limb for affirmative action in the Army. He has so many African-American friends he could start an AME church.

That is a record, and it means a lot to me.

[corporatewhore]

113. Clark has a record of praising bush&blair supporting american imperalism

via free trade and the school of assasins thugs who enforce to be fair dean has a record of joining sides w/ibm against environmental activists
and dumping VTs nuclear waste to a poor hispanic community

[retyred]

136. Speaking of waffles

What's dean's tax plan?


retyred in fla
“Good-Night Paul, Wherever You Are”
So I read this book

[Mz Pip]

71. Dean is

too divisive for my tastes. I find myself liking him less and less as time goes on.

MzPip
:dem:

[Renew Deal]

76. That sounds like an angry comment.

He sounds like he is angry at everyone else and he is lashing out.

[knight_of_the_star]

82. Exactly

He's angry that he's not living up to the overoptimistic predictions he made for himself.

[bitchkitty]

77. Who cares?

Kerry is one of the elite, after all. I personally don't see a hell of a lot of difference between him and Joe Lieberman, except that Kerry now looks damned strange with that forehead.

[Renew Deal]

78. I agree. Who cares?

I mean is done. Does it matter what he says anymmore?

[Dookus]

79. It matters...

only that it will be one more note in political epitaph.

[bitchkitty]

99. But

what about that forehead? Don't you think he looks strange? I cannot believe he actually thought people wouldn't notice. He's like Bush in that regard, not a clue of what the general populace thinks or feels. Elitists, who needs them? Corporations, that's who.

I'm not worried - I'm in it for the long haul, and so is Dean. He's still raising money and I'm happy to say I'm employed now and able to contribute every week. Threads like this inspire me and all Dean supporters.. You guys are so great, never ever change!

[lurk_no_more]

115. Since your into looks, I'm willing to talk foreheads

if your willing to talk necks, or the lack there of.


And then there were none!
” JAFO”

[bitchkitty]

146. ???

I have a beautiful neck, long and graceful, and if I didn't, I would not go to a plastic surgeon to have it fixed. If by some chance I did, I wouldn't lie about it.

I don't know what you mean by the neck reference, but the fact remains, Kerry looks very strange now. His forehead is as smooth as glass, and his eyebrows don't move.

[NV1962]

80. Quite sad...

I'm sorry to see Dean mistaking again -- at this point -- a fellow Democratic candidate, who has a truly Democratic agenda and no "Washington insider" baggage, for the guy he wants to beat in the White House. I thought we had moved ahead of that nonsense already...

:shrug:

Actually, what surprises me just as much is that John Kerry responded with restraint and elegance; that suggests that he's really serious about running a more positive campaign. Good for him there - I hope he really sticks to that course.

[David Dunham]

81. Maybe NY Post Was Right in Calling Dean "Dr. DeMento"

[On the Road]

83. When Dean Calls Kerry a Republican,

he's not referring to left-right politics, but Kerry's funding by and attitude towards business contributors and other special interests. I don't know Kerry's record well enough to know how much substance there is to it.

One of the things about Dean's attacks is that none of them will have much of an effect on a nominee in the general election. Charges of waffling are commonplace. Calling someone a Republican might even help.

In contrast, some the type of attacks that have launched on Dean are not only completely unfounded, but are devastating character assassinations. Remember how Dean looked six months ago? He would look the same today without the attacks. And if he does manage to get the nomination, it will cripple him in the general election.

I love it how everyone on DU used to be outraged at the same things Dean is and use the same terminology he does. Then when one of our candidates does the same thing, everyone acts all offended.

[Tatiana]

84. **Sigh**

Hope Dean repudiates the comments on MTP.

This isn't the way to go.

[Turkw]

89. Physician, heal thyself- still hold no ill will toward the Doc, BUT

Clark's the best! He he, bet you thought I was going to take a shot at the Doc.

[Eloriel]

91. All these attacks on Dean, yet no one is defending Kerry

I wonder why that is?

Could it be because his campaign finance is INDEFENSIBLE? Looks like it to me.

I guess the special interests Kerry will be fighting are the ones who haven't contributed to him? taking yet another lesson from George W. Bush, perhaps?

[Dookus]

94. because

the very idea that Kerry's 35 years of public liberalism even NEEDS to be defended from attacks by a pro-NRA, pro-death penalty, pro-business centrist like Dean is laughable on its face.

[MarkTwain]

118. Absolutely....

... one of the biggest jokes in this election year, besides the incumbent himself, is the presumption that Doctor Dean is a liberal or even for that matter a real progressive.

His campaign has been one of smoke and mirrors which, with it having found its foundation in the Internet - scam central on so very many levels, I guess was to be expected.

[JNelson6563]

142. All thrown away after a few years

of fascist enabler behavior. Long record thrown away because of cowardice.

Damn sad too.

Julie

[Renew Deal]

111. I think it's obvious that Dean's remarks are BS.

They are so silly that it's barely offensive.

[Zomby Woof]

92. mmmmtoast

I love the smell of toast in the morning, with all that sweet buttery goodness and fresh jam!


MmmMMM!

[Maddy McCall]

95. Yep...he's acting like a spoiled baby who lashes out when he doesn't get

his way.

The sooner Dean is out, the better.

[OKNancy]

101. Now why did he have to go and do that?

That man is making things SOOOOO Difficult.

[Lefta Dissenter]

125. Nancy,

your post just made my day. I mean, with the photo you have in your sig., it looks like you took the words right out of the General's mouth! :D

[NashVegas]

102. And Then, He Beat Up My Mom!

damn him!

[bhunt70]

106. what a silly flaw...

I mean seriously, If Dean would happen to get the nod for some reason is he gonna start calling Bush a republican?

He needs more ammo if he's gonna go shooting off at the mouth 'cause right now he is shooting blanks.

[bain_sidhe]

107. Smoochies to Dean too!

:*

(Just in case no one's noticed, I've started giving out smoochies to people who make stupid attacks. I figure they must just be in a bad mood if they can't think of anything more substantive to say than the political equivilent of "nyah, nyah," so maybe a little smooch will make them feel better.)

[arewethereyet]

108. if you have no money, all you can do is this to get attention

I suppose any publicity is good publicity so long as they spell your name right. Worked like a champ for Gephardt.

[John_H]

109. Appartently Dr. Dean does not take losing well. But I wish him

great success in his forthcoming career in medicine.

[leyton]

112. Is this the same Dean who...

complained that as frontrunner he was being unfairly targeted by other Dems? Who said Terry McAuliffe should step in and make things agreable?

Naw... can't be.

[lurk_no_more]

117. The very same one who said

He would serve no whine, before it's time.


And then there were none!
” JAFO”

[webkev]

119. ughh!

[Name removed]

120. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MoonRiver]

121. And people wonder why some have a few problems with Dean.

:eyes:

[nancyharris]

122. But remember

He is the ONLY candidate to oppose the war.......

[kerry-is-my-prez]

123. Check out who Dean got his first $$$ from: Energy PACS

http://timesargus.nybor.com/Legislature/Story/43125.html
Dean raises money from energy sources

MONTPELIER — When Gov. Howard Dean wanted to raise money for a possible presidential bid, he followed the example of a former governor of Texas and called on his friends in the energy industry.
Nearly a fifth of the roughly $111,000 collected in its first months by Dean’s presidential political action committee, the Fund for a Healthy America, came from people with ties to Vermont’s electric utilities, according to a recent Federal Elections Commission filing. It should be no surprise. Dean and utility executives have had a long and friendly relationship.

-snip-

But the governor himself has said the donations buy access. “People who think they’re going to buy a contract or buy some influence are mistaken,” Dean famously said during the debate over a campaign finance reform bill in 1996. “But they do get access — there’s no question about that. ...They get me to return their phone calls.”
Advocates of public financing for campaigns complain about the message conveyed by the contributions.

“Administration actions going back some years betray an inappropriate coziness with the utilities,” said Paul Burns, executive director of the Vermont Public Service Research Group. “I am not prepared to say it’s a result of contributions given. But these contributions present the appearance of impropriety or appearance of influence that it probably would have been better to avoid.”

Dean’s close relationship with utility representatives dates back to the day he became governor in 1991. A lobbyist for Green Mountain Power and a GMP employee were among the first people Dean called in to help his transition. A list of the Governor’s Council of Economic Advisers includes Green Mountain Power Corp.’s chairman, two company board members and a vice president, all of whom made donations to the Fund For A Healthy America. It also includes two longtime utility lobbyists.

-snip-

[sandnsea]

126. The definition of insanity..

Isn't that doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.....

[Edge]

127. Well...what he said was true, in my opinion.

[Bucky]

155. Yes, but your opinions are wrong. . :o) Clark is no Republican.

[SeveneightyWhoa]

129. Wow, Dean is a lost cause.

You Americans should be VERY happy that the media (or Dean himself, whatever you believe) took him out of the race. He'd be a disaster, and this recent name-calling and childish behavior just solidifies that feeling.

[Woodstock]

130. Dean shouldn't have said that - that really ticks me off

Nobody should call another Democrat in a race this important a Republican.

[KFC]

131. We don't need to replace one nut with another

Dean would obviously be better than chimp. But I would prefer someone who won't shit his pants in public.

[Nicholas_J]

133. Lets look at Dean's years of backing conservatism

And being backed by them:

Some Republicans back Dean
By TRACY SCHMALER Vermont Press Bureau

MONTPELIER - Democratic Gov. Howard Dean got a boost from the other side Thursday when a group of prominent Republicans turned out to support his re-election bid...

Gilbert, a former member of the late Gov. Richard Snelling's administration, said he took the initiative to form the group, which boasts a membership of more than 30 moderate Republicans from around the state who back Dean.

He said the committee would support Dean's candidacy by reaching out to other moderates in the party as well as helping Dean with fund-raising.

http://www.rutlandherald.com/election2000/repbackdean.html


Top GOP will stick with Dwyer, but some back Dean
By TRACY SCHMALER Vermont Press Bureau

Meanwhile, a group of Republicans headed by William Gilbert of Burlington is expected to announce their support for Dean this week.

"An awful lot of moderate Republicans feel as I do, that the best candidate is the person with the most experience and the capacity to govern Vermont - that person is Howard Dean," Gilbert said. "It's the people of Vermont who come first, not the party."...

ilbert was clearly breaking camp, however.

He said he started to organize the "Republicans for Dean" committee after learning that there were other Republicans who felt as he did.

http://www.rutlandherald.com/election2000/gop_dean.html

Now lets look at WIlliam GIlberts Resume


Dean, Cheney And Energy Secrecy


Dean's Vermont re-election campaign received only small contributions from energy executives, but a political action committee created as he prepared to run for president collected $19,000, or nearly a fifth of its first $110,000, from donors tied to Vermont's electric utilities.

One co-chairman of Dean's task force, William Gilbert, was a Republican lawyer who had done work for state utilities. At the time, Gilbert also served on the board of Vermont Gas Systems, a subsidiary of Hydro Quebec.

Many state legislators, including Dean's fellow Democrats, were angered that the task force met secretly.


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/12/26/politics/main590311.shtml


Current or recent governors of America's most populous states and their grades are: George W. Bush of Texas, "B"; George Pataki of New York, "B"; Tom Ridge of Pennsylvania, "B"; George Ryan of Illinois, "D"; Bob Taft of Ohio, "D"; John Engler of Michigan, "B"; Jeb Bush of Florida, "B"; and Christine Todd Whitman of New Jersey, "C." Overall, 16 governors earned a "B" and 16 received a "C."

Howard Dean (D) Vermont C

http://www.cato.org/new/02-01/02-12-01r.html


In 2001 Dean got a "C" grade from the Cato Institute, but lets look back a bit. Lets look at Dean's rating from thie ultraconservative organization, started by the Koch Brothers, the two people who are moet responsible for George Bush's win of the presidency in 2000.

Overall Fiscal Policy Grade--Pre-1994 Governors
Governor State Score Overall


Fiscal Policy
Grade

Steve Merrill (R) New Hampshire 69 A
Fife Symington (R) Arizona 66 A
William Weld (R) Massachusetts 63 B
Roy Romer (D) Colorado 59 B
Howard Dean (D) Vermont 58 B
Tommy Thompson (R) Wisconsin 58 B
John Engler (R) Michigan 57 B
Kirk Fordice (R) Mississippi 54 B
Edward Schafer (R) North Dakota 54 B
Evan Bayh (D) Indiana 54 B
Bob Miller (D) Nevada 54 B
Benjamin Nelson (D) Nebraska 52 C
Terry Branstad (R) Iowa 52 C
James Hunt (D) North Carolina 50 C
Arne Carlson (R) Minnesota 50 C
Pete Wilson (R) California 49 C
Zell Miller (D) Georgia 49 C
Mike Leavitt (R) Utah 49 C
Jim Edgar (R) Illinois 47 D
Mike Lowry (D) Washington 46 D
Mel Carnahan (D) Missouri 46 D
Marc Racicot (R) Montana 45 D
George Voinovich (R) Ohio 43 F
Lawton Chiles (D) Florida 42 F
Tom Carper (D) Delaware 41 F
Gaston Caperton (D) West Virginia 36 F

Although Republicans tended to do somewhat better (their average grade is C+ versus an average grade of C- for Democrats), there were notable exceptions. Two of the top five pre-1994 governors were Democrats: Roy Romer of Colorado and Howard Dean of Vermont. Two of the five most pro-tax-and-spend old governors were Republicans: George Voinovich of Ohio and Marc Racicot of Montana. The worst fiscal record of the new governors was compiled by Rhode Island Republican Lincoln Almond, who is out of step with his northeastern neighbors.




So for a good Deal of Deans career as Governor, he was reciving the same grades for conservatism that George Bush received from the Cato Institute a "B".

Dean was rated the fifth most conservative Governor on this list.

http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-257.html

On the other hand,John Kerry has been given the highest lifetime rating for liberalism, both from Liberal Organizations who love him for it, and Conservative Organizations who hate him for it.

The G.O.P. websites are already beginning to attack Kerry's real record of Liberalism:

KERRY: DUKAKIS’S LT. GOV. WHO VOTES
LOCKSTEP WITH TED KENNEDY

On Key Votes, Kerry Voted 100% Of The Time With Senator Kennedy In 2001, 1999, 1998, 1993, 1992, 1989, 1988, 1987, 1986, and 1985. Over the course of his Senate career, Kerry has sided with Senator Kennedy 94% of the time for key votes.

As Michael Dukakis’ Lt. Governor From 1983-1985, Kerry Supported Granting Prison Furloughs To Hundreds Of Massachusetts Inmates. Later as a U.S. Senator in 1988, he defended the program: “The furlough program in Massachusetts is tougher than the federal program.” (John King, “Bush Surrogate Gets Ambushed In Dukakis Territory,” The Associated Press, July 6, 1988)

http://www.gop.org/News/Read.aspx?Id=3412

Whether it's economic policy, national security policy or social issues, John Kerry is out of sync with most voters," Republican Party chairman Ed Gillespie said in a speech in suburban Virginia.

He said the Americans for Democratic Action, a liberal group, gives Kerry a lifetime rating of 93 percent, compared to 88 percent for Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, long a favorite target for Republicans.

http://archive.salon.com/news/wire/2004/01/23/kerry/

Now lets see. If we want to select a candidate who is clearly distinct and differnt than George Bush, do we select one who has been repudiated by Republicans for having the highest lifetime record for Liberalism, and praised by Liberal Organizations for having the highest lifetime ratings for Liberalism....

OR

Do we want a candidate who has recieved passing grades by one of the nations most conservative Neo-Conservative organizations, and in fact for several years was given the same conservative grade as George W. Bush was himself.

The choice seems very, very clear.

[Hippo_Tron]

135. In all fairness to Dean, they criticized him when he was the "frontrunner"

But I don't agree with these kinds of attacks from both sides.

[Myra]

138. I'm glad General Clark exhibits the class that others lack.

But then he knows to lead by example.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

139. There's Nothing As Sad As Jealousy Raising It's Ugly Head...

NT

[OutlawCorporatePolls]

140. and nothing as beautiful as the truth.

ahem, dean is winning the delegate count,

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/primaries/pages/scorecard/index.html

and will pick alot more over next 6 weeks.

cali 3/2 is the biggie. theyre earlier this year. yukkity yuk.

[1971]

151. Not so fast...

The delegate selection process

<snip>

As a result, a candidate wraps up the nomination beforehand only if he or she garners the allegiance of a healthy majority of pledged delegates -- enough to outweigh a potential revolt by unpledged delegates.

The end result? No matter what happens at the coming weeks and months, the Democratic nominee's eventual, exact margin of victory will not -- in fact, it cannot be determined until late July. So stay tuned.


http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/primaries/pages/misc/more.html

[FubarFly]

141. Damn that Dean!

I don't like these type of statements from my candidate either, but I am willing to look past his bluntness to the the meaning of his words. There was a time when people on DU would do this like breathing. In those dark days when 90% of the country supported b*sh, and all seemed lost, DU came together like a family. We were here for each other. We comforted each other when we were down, and it felt good to come here. No matter who is nominated, we have some very trying times ahead, and it is my hope that we will be able to get back what we lost, and regain the unity we once had.

So here's the Deal: to all of the Clark supporters who are offended by Dean's words, let me just say that I was opposed to Dean calling Clark a Republican the first time and I am sorry to see the reinsinuation now. However, I understood that Dean was refering to Clark's past in which Clark worked closely with, fundraised for, praised, and voted for Republicans. This is the heart of the matter. Dean has every right to question Clark's former leanings and current loyalty, although I do wish he would choose his words better. And I must say, every time I watch Clark now, I am impressed with his passion and sincerity. I do believe Clark is an honorable man, and I do think Clark is doing what he feels is best for his country. It may not always be what I feel is best, but I am willing to look past what I see as his shortcomings and see his virtues, as many of you recently have been willing to do with Dean.

To all the Kerry folks who are trying to dismiss the substance of Dean's comments by focusing on the syntax, let me say with all honesty, you're making a mistake. Kerry will not be able to hold the Party together if he is the nominee without making a significant effort to reach out to the very real and ever growing disaffected base. Continuing to try and discredit Dean by attacking his character, will only make the situation worse. Addressing, and either accepting or refuting the content of his message, would be much more helpful in the long run. If you can make the effort to concede, or at least acknowledge this point, then we have room for further discussion. You guys say you're ABB. Now is your chance to prove it.

[TheDonkey]

148. Is Dean trying to get into a race for the bottom??

I guess he wants to give Lieberman some company in the 3rd tier bitter campaigners.

[saoirse]

149. Is that they best they've got?

Anyone who thinks Clark is a Republican needs to look at his positions on the issues. He's already established himself as the leader on issues like gay rights and making the tax system fairer, to name only a couple. If you truly think those a the kind of things a Republican would do, then I humbly suggest having your head examined.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

152. Enjoyed all the mock outrage in this thread.

Thanks Don. :toast: