Wes Clark's World and Bush's

[CarolNYC]

I quite liked this piece by Bernie Quigley today....

excerpts....

"Today corruption is an everyday part of life. Sin happens. But in an honorable society a leader takes responsibility for his actions. He acknowledges his failure to himself, to his family, to deity and country. He relinquishes the reins of power.

We are no longer a society which honor’s honor. Recently, I had a conversation with a very decent, intelligent and thoughtful young man who said he didn’t have any idea what I meant by honor. We live in a nation of laws, he pointed out. Honor has nothing to do with it. I think he explains it precisely. It is an American dilemma. Can a country live by laws alone? Our country does, but in each segment of our history laws have ultimately failed us and we have had to call upon men of honor at the hour of desperation: Washington, Lincoln, Eisenhower, George Marshall. Very often they were military men."
.......
"The President tells us, “Americans are addicted to oil.” I think we have been telling him that for the last five years, since he hired oil men and car guys from Detroit to run his Cabinet and tell him what to do. But there is an accusatory attitude here, as there often seems to be with this President. It is somehow a weakness on our part. Do I have this right? Was it not Prescott Bush, the President’s grandfather, who brought these people from New England to Texas in the endless search for oil and new wealth? For a minute I thought I had accidentally switched the clicker to the aggi channel and was listening to Willy Nelson at Farm Aid or Neil Young, tooling around Los Angeles in his biodiesel Hummer."
......
"The tenor and tone of the entire speech was to turn away. He seems one foot in Crawford, cutting brush, waiting for the next three years to end. As do so many others.

I turned by contrast to Wesley Clark. Two days before President Bush was to give his annual State of the Union speech, Wesley Clark was invited to deliver a speech at The New America Foundation in Washington, D.C. It was a great speech. And what pervades it is that to which I was drawn to him early on.

General Clark is old school. He lives by the rules, but he also lives by a code of honor. It pervades every utterance and every act. I heard him speak a number of times in the New Hampshire primary and I think it frightened people. And what I thought that meant was this: We admire men like that. But we are not yet ready to turn to a man of honor. Our failure is not yet great enough."
......
"How deep must we descend? How great must our failure be until we turn in panic and disgrace to a Man of Honor?"

http://www.freemarketnews.com/Analysis/27/3627/2006-02-01.asp?wid=27&nid=3627

Indeed!

[Larry in KC]

1. Thank you for that.

I think we've descended far enough. The time for a man of honor is now.

Wesley Clark is the president we need.

[FrenchieCat]

2. If we are not ready for a man of Honor by now,

we never will be!

Clark is for country before party; country before self. That's the way it ought to always have been.

If we want honesty in government, we really need a "non-pol" in the top spot.

Clark's speech really did cover the gamut of issues we are facing......and it was delivered in a very earnest and powerful manner.

I will be seeing Wes tomorrow at a San Francisco event. I will print this article out and hand it to him! Thanks!

[Adelante]

4. You're going!!!

You didn't tell me. I hate you :cry:

[FrenchieCat]

6. I didn't tell you cause I didn't know until yesterday.....

With Bush's HocusPocus going on.....I kinda of got sidetracked!

:hi:

[Adelante]

7. No! I hate you because I'm not going

But I love you, too, ya know? :hug:

[Totally Committed]

14. Frenchie, I hope you'll tell Wes how proud his speech made

so many of us. That old magic came alive again with that speech, I gotta tell ya. NObody does it or says it better than Wes!

Have a wonderful time! I wish I were going t o be there with you.

TC

[Mz Pip]

13. I'm going too!

:hi: See you there!

Mz Pip
:dem:

[Totally Committed]

16. I'm so jealous!

Have a wonderful time there, Mz Pip!

TC

[CarolNYC]

35. Ah, Mz Pip

Another one going...Have a great time....but know that I'm jealous of you too. :P

[CarolNYC]

34. Yay Frenchie!

So glad you get to go.....but jealous too. :P

Have a great time and say hi for me. :)

[mia]

45. Just returned from dinner with THE man of honor!

There was a WesPac event in Miami this evening. He sat at our table for the last half of the dinner, so all of us got a chance to ask questions. He is so easy to talk to.

I'm looking forward to the possibility of a Clark run in 2008.
Have fun in San Francisco!

[CarolNYC]

46. Ahhhh...I'm REALLY jealous of you....

How lucky you are! What did you guys ask about??

He is easy to talk to, isn't he? Being in NYC, I had a number of opportunities to meet and talk to him during the campaign and after. The first few times I admit that I, being a bit shy, was a bit intimidated and said nothing more than "Thank you, General". But, after the first time I got up the nerve to actually talk to him, it was like I'd known him forever. He is extremely approachable....

[mia]

47. Mostly talk was along the lines of strategy for Democrats

in general, with discussions about likely candidates in 2008.

He is really committed now to helping more Democrats get elected in 2006.
He stressed putting forth a positive message without any name calling.

There were a lot of new faces there that I hadn't see at fundraising events during the '04 campaign. Many of us talked about knowing Republicans who have realized that they made a mistake in voting for Bush, but are having difficulty in saving face. The tide is turning.

Yes, he is extremely approachable, and he said that he reads the blog daily and all of his emails.

It's great knowing that Wes is out there working for us all. We ARE lucky!!

[CarolNYC]

55. Thanks....

How very cool....Glad to hear it went well and he's picking up new supporters.

It's great that he's so committed to helping us win in 2006. He truly understands and appreciates the dire straits this country is in right now and the continued damage that will be done if we don't get back at least some semblance of a two party government. I'm so grateful that he continues to serve his country rather than going off somewhere and just taking care of himself...although, Lord knows, he deserves to take care of himself a little bit after all these years.

And cool to hear that he reads what we write...That's another thing that's wonderful about him...He really cares what we think....

You're right, we ARE lucky!

[Totally Committed]

3. " I turned by contrast to Wesley Clark....

Two days before President Bush was to give his annual State of the Union speech, Wesley Clark was invited to deliver a speech at The New America Foundation in Washington, D.C. It was a great speech. And what pervades it is that to which I was drawn to him early on.

General Clark is old school. He lives by the rules, but he also lives by a code of honor. It pervades every utterance and every act. I heard him speak a number of times in the New Hampshire primary and I think it frightened people. And what I thought that meant was this: We admire men like that. But we are not yet ready to turn to a man of honor. Our failure is not yet great enough."
...... 'How deep must we descend? How great must our failure be until we turn in panic and disgrace to a Man of Honor?'"

There's not much more to say after that, now, is there? Wes Clark -- Man of Honor. To me, he always has been and always will be.

TC

[wiley]

22. What happened to the decent Republicans?

It just continues to astound me that the many Republicans I know who think Bush is a disgrace of historical proportions with regards to his integrity, lack of honesty, and debasement of American values for political and financial gain, either don't vote, or still vote Republican - including Bush. The honorable thing would be to IMPEACH BUSH. He broke the law. I guess they really have lost their honor as well. It's a shame to make such a broad generalization, but it applies. Very sad.

[Totally Committed]

26. wiley... imo, there are no "decent" Republicans...

I know that sounds over-the-top, but anyone who votes with Bush, for Bush, supports his policies, enables evil, and abets the destruction of this country as we knew it.

That's, as I said, my opinion only, but even Olympia Snowe voted with the Bushies on Alito.

TC

[dogman]

29. I know what you mean.

How can these supposed "honorable" people surrender this Country to Fascism after all the sacrifices that have been made to protect us from it? I cannot accept that they are that misguided. I firmly believe the only possibility is their greed overwhelms their conscience. On edit, there were a few who spoke out in 2004. Richard Clarke and Rand Beers along with John Eisenhower are examples of those that would put their country before Party.

[CarolNYC]

37. There actually are some...

They just may not be in positions of power...Before last election's primaries I had three Republican brothers-in-law. One of them re-registered as a Democrat in the hopes of being able to vote for Wes in his state's primary...He ended up working, with my sister, for Kerry and the local Dem candidates in his area. The other two stayed Republican but both voted for Kerry...

[CarolNYC]

36. Yep,

That about hits the nail on the head, doesn't it? Wes is a man of honor and that frightens people.

I can't imagine how much lower we can descend...but I guess there are always greater depths...I just don't want to imagine them.

[Ksec]

5. Wes Clark is THE man.

The man is poetry to my ears.

He understands where this cabal is taking us and he wonders how far down before we demand they get out. Its in pretty deep. If they still back him then I fear no depth will be too great.
Run Wes Run

[FrenchieCat]

8. Another short review here.....

From a Dean supporter! http://www.progressivelyceum.com/?p=272

[Jai4WKC08]

10. Single-payer health care got his attention

What the blogger wrote:

I was committed to Howard Dean in 2004, but I nonetheless found Wes Clark an intriguing, if inexperienced, choice. I said then that I felt that Clark needed more political experience before I’d feel comfortable supporting him. Since that election cycle, I’m becoming more and more convinced that he is gaining the kind of experience that will make him a persuasive national candidate. I’m not ready to declare my support for him for 2008 - it’s way too early to make a decision about that now - but he is definitely one of a handful of potential candidates that I’m keeping a close eye on.

One of the things I like about him is that he’s a tough, principled progressive. That much is apparent from reading his own State of the Union speech, delivered yesterday to the New America Foundation:

(snipping the quoted text, since it has been posted to DU already, except where Clark said...)

"...this will mean transitioning over time from a work place centered, private payer system toward greater reliance on some form of single-payer system to ease administrative burdens and reduce costs."

The emphasis in that last paragraph is mine, because it’s significant that a major potential candidate for president is now calling for single-payer healthcare in this country. I believe that health care is going to be the single major domestic issue in the 2008 presidential election, and I also believe that any serious candidate for the Democratic nomination is going to have to put a single-payer plan on the table in order to win.

Someone like Wes Clark could use this issue to pry the support of the business community away from the GOP. The Republicans couldn’t care less about the health care crisis in this country. As long as the health insurance companies keep raking in profits by putting people last and giving Republican candidates a share of the largesse (those Republicans who are directly connected to a major health care company with a history of criminal wrongdoing notwithstanding), the Republicans have no incentive to try and enact positive change, at least not until the people stop rewarding the Republican propensity for waving the bloody shirt and making phantom threats that gay Americans are going to destroy society.

If we had a single-payer system in this country, then perhaps General Motors wouldn’t be facing the worst fiscal outlook in its long history. Single-payer healthcare is something that makes sense for both business and for ordinary Americans. I’m glad to see Clark make it a viable issue.

[Jai4WKC08]

9. "A code of honor..."

Or as Sy Hersch put it to Amy Goodman, "Wes Clark has a great streak of integrity."

Honor and integrity in someone seeking political office? What a concept!

[Totally Committed]

11. Sy Hersh talking to Amy Goodman about

Wes Clark's integrity. I would have LOVED to have heard that. Thanks, Jai!

TC

[ClayZ]

12. And China's America ...Flash Video "Ha Ha Ha"

We got this flash video in the email today...

http://fourcity.dvia.com/flash/haha/haha.html

Scary!

[tishaLA]

15. Joe Wilson was just singing Wes's praises on Schultz

I won;t be able to remember what he said exactly, but he said that he has a great deal of respect for Clark and that Clark is a truth teller. He said that, like Wilson, Clark has served the country for a long time and that he has a more complex way of looking at things than just Democrat and republicon--and, besides, this group in Washington isn't republicons at all: they are extremists.

Very nice words.

[Jai4WKC08]

18. I heard it too

It sounded to me like Wilson had heard Clark's "Real SOTU," or knew the substance of it, and Ed seemed to at least know what the caller was talking about. Did you get that impression?

[Adelante]

19. Joe WIlson was there at the speech

He was seen there by Clarkies who were there.

[Tinksrival]

28. I was just looking at knights pictures from the event!

He has one of Joe(hot)Wilson


OMGosh I wish I was there!
It was a twofer! Two heros!

[Totally Committed]

20. Joe Wilson...

Wow.

That forum drew a very distinguished crowd. I'm glad Wilson liked what he saw and heard. That's super! Thanks for posting that. That and the tidbit about Sy Hersh and Amy Goodman really have made my day!

TC

[tishaLA]

21. I missed the Hersh and Goodman tidbit

Can you recap briefly when you get the chance? Thanks.

[Totally Committed]

23. Tish, see Jai's excellent post at #9...

on this thread. That's what I was referring to.

TC

[tishaLA]

24. Thanks! I didn't even see that

[Jai4WKC08]

25. Here's the Hersh/Goodman transcript

Democracy Now Radio - September 14, 2004

Quote:
AMY GOODMAN: Can you talk about Operation Anaconda in Afghanistan?

SEYMOUR HERSH:....I got there after action started, which was just devastating, I mean, brutal. There's always internesting warfare, but this was extraordinary. They just said, this was the worst they have ever seen. One air force colonel, who is a wonderful, bright young air force colonel said to me, "Well, the army demonstrated that they were able to send a bunch of boys up a mountain to their death." That's what they showed in this mission. Complete disaster. They tried to tell the press as many as 700 al Qaeda were killed. Newsweek reported ten bodies were found. Shades of Vietnam again. But I didn't write it.

What makes it interesting, while doing reporting on it, I called Wesley Clark, the former NATO commander, who is sort of an interesting guy in this stuff, because early in the war, early in my reporting on the war, I had written critically about a Delta Force operation. Delta is the secret unit of the army. The commander unit. They had been ambushed. The Delta guys were enraged. I'm talking about the first month of the war because they had been sent on this stupid operation and they had gotten hurt very badly. And they don't like it. Delta guys, they like to crawl in little holes for a week and get to their target. They were ordered to do it in a different way.

Everybody denied the story like crazy. And Wes Clark, to his credit, told a bunch of newspapers, "Look, I know this is right." I had said 13 people were hurt and he said 12 was the number that he had. I saw in him somebody with a great streak of integrity, difficult he may be. In any case, I called him about this story while I was doing it. He encouraged me to write it. I didn't write it.

About a year-and-a-half later, he's running for president. I mention this in the book, and I bump into him, and he jumped all over me. He said, "Why didn't you do that story?" I said, "Well, I just thought, it just would have been -- I just didn't do it." He said, "You should have done it. That was your job." Pretty scary. You know, he was right.

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/09/14/1351212

[tishaLA]

32. Love it!

Thanks for posting it.

[Adelante]

53. I remember that one

Poor Amy didn't know what to do with somebody talking good about Wes Clark! She changed the subject right smartly. :eyes:

[CarolNYC]

56. Yep,

That was funny...She couldn't change the subject fast enough, could she? heh....

[democrank]

17. Wes Clark....

None better.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tom Rinaldo]

30. OK, I can self delete now n/t

[Tinksrival]

31. There is also a great write up on TPM Cafe. (Talking Points Memo)

Wesley Clark on Iran: "We Need to Talk"

By Greg Priddy

From: Foreign Affairs Table

<snip>


I'm impressed that someone who clearly has presidential aspirations is willing to come out and advocate a sound strategy, rather than merely saying whatever one thinks is good in terms of domestic political calculations -- as Hillary Clinton has been doing recently in trying to out-hawk the Bush administration on Iran. That sort of rational strategic thinking is exactly what we need -- not opposing the "bomb them now and get it over with" chorus on pacifist grounds, or sticking our heads in the sand and imagining that Iran's nuclear program is completely peaceful, but thinking rationally about how we encourage them to back down, before contemplating military action, which wouldn't be likely to completely destroy Iran's program, and would likely lead to an embittered and eventually nuclear-armed Iran.

More:
http://www.tpmcafe.com/story/2006/1/30/221916/857

[Totally Committed]

48. Outstanding!

I hope Wes goes back on TPM soon and blogs for us again. (I'm interested in single-payer health care too!) I'm glad people are starting to get to know some of his domestic agenda as well as his National Defense and Foreign Affairs agendas.

TC

[Greyhound]

33. He'll get my vote again, if he's fool enough to get into the cesspool. n/t

[Ksec]

38. Oh hes running .

I have no doubt, and hes got my vote again.

[bobthedrummer]

39. Some critical articles on General Clark to consider

http://www.prospect.org/print/V14/10/vest-j.html

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/clark.htm

http://www.counterpunch.org/clark.html

[Tom Rinaldo]

40. Bob you should know better than that

The first article is a typical media mush of information and misinformation, various views some well thought through, others not. We can talk about that one but what is the point? It's like pulling up a single news coverage item from some Middle American newspaper about Kerry during the 2004 General Election. How accurate do you think media coverage of him tended to be?

The other two articles are outright hit jobs, complete utter written to destroy a man if possible hit jobs. You might just as well rip out a couple of chapters from the Swift boaters for Truth Book they published about John Kerry during the last election and present those as "some critical writing on John Kerry to consider". That is exactly what those two stories are, and exactly how accurate the "information" they contain is. That was the anti Clark "swift boating" script and the "research" it is based on is exactly as solid as the case that was made against Kerry in Viet Nam .

We can show you lots of instances in which Hard right publications and "leftist" publications used the exact same attack memes and lines and "facts" against Clark early after his announcement that he was going to run for President. They tried to "define" Clark to the public right out of the gate, same as the Republicans tried with Kerry. And exactly like they did with Kerry, they went after Clark's strengths. That is their standard operating procedure.

I really am disappointed in you for simply throwing up links like that on a thread like this and acting like you contributed something to DU by doing so.

[CarolNYC]

42. As was said,

people see a man of honor and it frightens them....perhaps because it is such a rare thing to find these days?

[dogman]

41. The first article says he could attract GOP votes.

The second is outright lies. The third is not factual, quotes unnamed underlings. There are just as many testimonials on his behalf. This is all radical right wing propaganda that has been adopted by some on the left because they would rather repeat rw lies than come up with facts. This is old and has been debunked many times here on DU. Is that all you've got in the face of a great summary of where our Nation stands by an impressive liberal Democrat.

[Tom Rinaldo]

44. Yup, The second one LITERALLY is out right lies.

Waco is the rallying cry for the right wing militia movement less anyone forget. Clark had absolutely no role in Waco, that has been proved. And David Koresh was no hero, less anyone forget that either. Here is some info on his sect:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Branch_Davidian

[Tom Rinaldo]

43. Anyone seeking to understand the bias of the third article

need go no further than reading ten words into it:

"Anyone seeking to understand the bloody fiasco of the Serbian war need hardly look further than the person of the beribboned Supreme Allied Commander, General Wesley K. Clark."

There were a number of Serbian apologists who turned out hit pieces against Clark with a maniacal fury. Yes a few on the left think Clark and NATO forces were war criminals in Kosovo, but most everyone else understands that it is Slobodan Milosevic who is standing trial now in an International Court for War Crimes against humanity.

The article closes with this:

"This observer concludes that, confronted with the wily Slobodan and other unavoidable variables of war, Clark will soon come unglued. "Watch the carpets at NATO HQ for teeth marks."CP

Right. Not a single U.S. casualty. The wily now Slobodan deposed by the Serbians, and on trial for the crime of genocide.

Gene Lyons predicted early on that the Republicans would try to discredit Clark by making him out to be tightly wound, overly ambitious, and prone to mental illness. Gene Lyons called that one perfectly.

[Auntie Bush]

59. The only negative thing about Wes running is to have to listen to all the

lies about Wes and that will break my heart. I love that man too much to see/hear anything negative or lies about him. It really hurts and I don't want Gert to have to witness the unfair attacks on her husband. For this selfish reason I was deep down relieved when he dropped out.
Well...not really...but you get the idea. I just couldn't stand the pain! But nothing makes me happier than Wes Clark and the hope we could have him for our next president.

[Totally Committed]

49. All these outright attacks are YEARS old...

YEARS.

TC

[Adelante]

54. Oh, look who's here

How ya been, bobthedrummer? :hi:

[Thirtieschild]

50. And maybe both parties are scared of someone so honorable

I heard, or read, not sure where, that the Democrats were as scared of Wes as the Republicans because he was too honorable to play the game.

I would so love to meet him. Such a man doesn't come along very often. When you compare his intelligence, his vision, his courage and his honor to what we have in Washington now ... sigh.

[Tom Rinaldo]

51. Clark is travelling a lot, you may be able to meet him

Go to his web site:
http://securingamerica.com/

On the left of the home page is a feature that lists his upcoming events.

[FrenchieCat]

52. He will be in S.F. today, and L.A. on the 4th!

[CarolNYC]

57. People are always claiming they want honesty and integrity...

in their political figures but when they find it, it freaks them out...I think, unfortunately, what most people want is to be told what they want to be told and to keep the staus quo...Sadly, there's no revolution coming anytime soon...not in this country...

[Robeson]

58. I'm not a Clark supporter. I support Gore. However, I did watch Clark...

...deliver a speech on CSPAN. Obviously, I feel as he does regarding the failure of this Presidency, but what I came away with from his speech, was that he seemed much more polished and comfortable on stage, then I remember him in 2004. He appeared more natural, and not as rehearsed. I could see how he would connect with an audience.

[NCarolinawoman]

60. Thanks Robeson. I AM a Clark supporter, but I have always seen Al Gore as

a very outstanding leader. I bought his book when it came out way back when, and he was so far ahead of his time! I was absolutely thrilled when Clinton picked him as his running mate. He and Clark are both visionaries. They are both cerebral, fearless, compassionate progressives; and either one could lead us with wisdom through the dangerous maze and pitfalls of "national security".

I have a trememdous amount of respect for both of these men. (obviously, LOL)

[Totally Committed]

61. I think so, too...

Wes's "delivery" has finally begun to equal his enormous potential. He's honest, has integrity, and speaks with authority on matters, both foeign and domestic. He is my candidate.

TC

[Jai4WKC08]

62. Impressions depended a lot on when you saw him and...

What he was talking about.

When Clark first started his 04 campaign, his speeches were not very "natural" when he talked about domestic issues. It was NOT because his positions weren't well thought out. Oh sure, some were more fully developed than others--his tax plan, for example, was submitted to a number of highly regarded Democratic economists before it was turned into a formal policy and a speech written, and since he wanted all his proposed expenditures to balance with revenues, it was hard for him to talk to the specifics of what he wanted in do with health care, for example.

But even on the domestic subjects about which he knew what he wanted to say, he didn't have the patter down. He had never had much call to speak in a public, political setting about domestic policy before. When he had campaigned for Democrats in 2002, he was always invited for the expressed reason of bolstering their national security credentials and that's what he had experience in doing.

Most politicians, by the time they run for president, have been preaching their positions for many years. They have the catch-phrases burned into their memories, know the traps and counter-arguments, what phrases are likely to turn off an audience. Clark wasn't there yet, so he pretty much had to stick to a script. The result was the impression that he wasn't "ready for prime-time," and to an extent it was true, but more in style than substance.

There's also a certain something that people expect in a stump speech that's very different than what a military guy uses, whether briefing a superior, talking to the media, or addressing some defense symposium. It's probably closest to what a commander might use to motivate a large audience of troops, but with an level of... I don't know what you'd call it... Drama? Excitement? Whatever it is, it's something that would probably be laughed at in any military setting, and took Clark a while to develop. But I think he got there by the end of his campaign, and for sure by the time he was stumping for Kerry.

So if you listen to his early speeches on defense or foreign policy, Clark did just fine--not exciting, maybe, but certainly comfortable with the material. And if you listen to the Dec 03/Jan 04 speeches on domestic policy, he did alright there too, and the polls in NH at the time seem to reflect that the voters were starting to respond. Imo, if you listen to the town halls where he spent most of the time just answering questions, he was fantastic from the start. Clark has always been one to really listen to what someone is asking and give an honest and heartfelt answer.

Clark had a lot to learn in the fall/winter of 2003, and not much time to do it. But he has learned, a lot, and will only get better between now and 2008.