Rove memo: Don't stop Dean! Novak, Safire warn of party split:

[robbedvoter]

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/24/opinion/24SAFI.html
Don't Stop Dean
By WILLIAM SAFIRE

ASHINGTON

I am beginning to worry that Howard Dean may not get the Democratic nomination. Follow the convoluted reasoningMore

****
Robert D. Novak:
Any attempt to stop Dean will risk party split
By ROBERT D. NOVAK
http://www.theunionleader.com/opinion_show.html?article=30550
BEFORE a single vote has been cast anywhere, More

Isn't it touching that these two guys worry for our party? Same day, same rationale. Coincidence? I think not!

[windansea]

1. Safire got this from Kaus, & TNR

scroll down
http://slate.msn.com/id/2093002/


http://www.tnr.com/etc.mhtml?pid=1088

[robbedvoter]

6. Maybe Kaus misunderstood this remark from HD:

I can't just go out and say, 'Okay, so I
> didn't win the nomination, so go ahead and vote for the Democrats.'
> They're not going to suddenly just go away. That's not gonna
> happen."
> --
> http://www.laweekly.com/ink/printme.php?eid=46660

You think HD will set them straight? Or was that talk of Nader as VP meant to send this kind of vibe around?

[windansea]

15. I have no idea

maybe they are just trying to sell papers and blog hits..or maybe they have other motives??

[WiseMen]

30. Repub. Pigs Laughing their way to the LANDSLIDE. Dean Gives a RNC WIN/WIN

[stickdog]

33. Why? Because a Dean nomination leaves ALL of Bush's miserable

failures on the table?

Rove likes that idea?

Why?

[polpilot]

51. Rove saw what happened to frontrunner Kerry and knows Bush is next.

Dean '04...

[WiseMen]

55. Kerry Vetoed responses to Dean's Attacks for 8 months, Destroying His Own

Campaign, rather that go on the attack. Kerry eventually fired
his campaign manager who had been agitating against the
passivity of Kerry's "old hands" advisor, even though the manager
had been right (in my view). By not immediately attacking the slander and caricature of himself and his candidacy that Dean engaged in up and down New Hampshire and across the Internet, Kerry looks weak defensive and somewhat suspect when he now tries to
clarify his record, positions and character.

I ASSURE YOU, ROVE IS NOT GOING TO LET THAT HAPPEN WITHIN HIS
BASE. That is why the RNC will start running response ads now, even
at risk of harming the man they call "a gift of God."

[Patriot_Spear]

2. So we're listening to Karl Rove for our campaign strategy?

Well, some of us are apparently.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Patriot_Spear]

5. Constantly reacting to the other side puts them in control...

Form a plan, be adaptive, but don't define yourself by the enemy's public face.

[robbedvoter]

7. Not reacting, analyzing. Reaction: OMG, don't stop HD!

Analysis: why are they saying that?

[Patriot_Spear]

10. Who cares what they're saying-

really.

[robbedvoter]

16. I do. Primaries will eventually be over - we'll face them directly.

For now, they try to run our show, in the General's election they'll be opposing us directly. I therefore collect their damning statements for futures letters to the editors.

[Patriot_Spear]

17. Sorry, I never take what they say at face vaule.

And honestly, don't you think it would be foolish to try and second guess them?

Who has that much time?

[adadem]

22. Thank you

We'll need it.

Dean and his supporters who react to questions and/or criticism with with this current "how dare you ask" attitude need to start toughening up their emotions for the general election. Otherwise Dean and his supporters don't have a chance against the pugs.

[LuminousX]

11. More importantly, why did they let that get out?

[trogdor]

18. Ever see Uncle Remus?

"Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease, Br'er Bear, I beg you, don't throw me in the briar patch." - Br'er Rabbit

[stickdog]

34. Repuplicans say, "We are all liars who always lie."

Should we believe them?

[HFishbine]

19. Care to edit your post

to conform to the new DU rules?

[robbedvoter]

23. Au contraire, mon frere, I intend to do the opposite, Question is

why are the neocons worried about the future of the Democratic party and the consequences of a "Stop dean" movement? Why are they both writing the very same day warning us of the dangers of doing so?

[mouse7]

35. And getting our news from Safire and Novak? n/t

[leetrisck]

4. We must never, ever let them control

our feelings and our votes for our candidates. They're all so full of spin, they're reeling.

[robbedvoter]

8. Agre. But when two neocons "worry" about the Dem party splitting

am I allowed to wonder what their motivation is? Or am I supposed to hide my head in the sand?

[Patriot_Spear]

14. C'mon Leah, if they really wanted this would they spread it around? n/t

[liberalnurse]

9. They are making a point which

I see evidence of here at DU. It's time for the candidates to narrow the field and unite with the party.

[Old and In the Way]

20. Totally agree LH!

Let's get the primaries over and unite behind whoever the majority elects to lead us against Bush....sooner, the better!

[markus]

12. Or some lazy Xmas week plagarism

Certainly, planting this evil little seed in people's minds served Mr. Rove's ends, either way.

[robbedvoter]

24. Actually, onlt the gist is the same: "Don't stop Dean" They each

come with their own twisted rationales - it is not plagiarism, it's creative writing on talking points. So, the question remanis: why?

[kaitykaity]

13. More from the Clinton-Gore War rumor mill.

Let them believe this. "Please don't throw me into
the brier patch!!" When the Bill and Al embrace on stage
at the convention in Boston, I want to be a fly on the
wall at the Safire-Novak-Rove house.

Tee hee hee.

[Upfront]

29. Mr Thinks

They protest to much.

[AntiCoup2K4]

21. Safire's certainly right about one thing

The "re"election of Bush Jr will lead to absolute tyranny. Don't sweat it Bill.... Despite the current chaotic appearance (no more in evidence than here at DU) this party WILL be united behind the nominee, and we WILL bring down the Bush Criminal Empire. And it's very likely that nominee will be Howard Dean. And if McAulliffe, Daschle, Hillary or whomever have a problem with that, well, don't let the door hit ya where the Good Lord split ya!

[robbedvoter]

25. Running against the Democrats, are you?

Don't presume too much support after posts like this. Every drop of arrogance earns you a new sworn enemy. Hopefully, in the primary elections. Keep it up!;-)

[IndianaGreen]

31. Safire was one of the neocons that got us into the Iraq quagmire

I wouldn't even wipe my ass with his filthy columns!

[AntiCoup2K4]

42. If a broken clock can be right twice a day, then Bill Safire can get .....

...at least one sentence right. And he might be a neocon, but his allusion to Chimpy being a tyrant would seem to indicate he's not all that comfortable with PNAC.

Not that I expect Safire to vote Democrat, of course. But he might very well vote for Buchanan or a similar right wing third party, should one jump into the race. And with all the defections on the right, I really wouldn't rule that out yet...

[Myra]

47. And yet, he's a party insider

And his column is used to broadcast strategy.
Regardless of what you would or wouldn't use it for.

[FrenchieCat]

26. They are playing us...

and it shows. They have a game plan, and come the general election, it won't be pretty! This is a set up to give us Dean. It is obvious and sad that many do not see it. We will not recover from this manipulation.......many are too blinded!

I have never seen so many conservatives have so much to say in the politics of the Democratic party.

They want Dean, but why? Obviously they have figured out what many Democrats can not bring themselves to figure out.

Maybe that's why the Republicans are in charge of everything. Maybe they are smarter after all!

They funded Nader, stole the last election, got us into a war, gave us Arnold, and now they will be picking our Democratic contender!

Now matter what we might say about them, we do have to admire they're political brilliances in their calculation of the Dems' naivete!

Saw the reflection of what I am talkig about last night in the Focus group. Those that supported Dean didn't really know why. When asked about the Bush Tax cuts, many "Soft" Dean supporters did not make the link between Dean stance on the Bush tax cuts (because many don't even know what it is). In addition, they made no link between the programs they all wish for and the issue of "beating Bush".....they had no clue that the programs can not be gotten if Bush is not defeated. In other words, the media has pushed Howard Dean, but not his policies and his election platform. Howard Dean is favored by those who have not bothered to really compare him to other candidates. I was appalled by their lack of knowledge about Howard Dean, when they lauded him for not ever changing his stance about anything......they know nothing about Dean except that he was against the war, has a big mouth and has gotten mucho press. It only reinforces my opinion that if Howard Dean is closely looked at, his candidacy falls apart. That is the reason that news information on Dean's policy are always obscured by scandal, and/or his "great" campaign or his money raising prowess. On the other hand, many in that focus group who supported someone other than Howard Dean seemed much better informed.

[stickdog]

38. Sorry. We picked Dean ourselves. It's called grassroots. (nt)

[depakid]

49. Can you ever say anything positive?

I sure hope so, because we're going to need you in the fall campaign.

[w4rma]

27. Whacko. (n/t)

[WiseMen]

28. Any One Doesn't Know Rove Wants Dean?? RETURN TO EARTH, PLEASE!!

[stickdog]

32. Why does Rove want Dean? Because Bush does so well under attack?

Because Rove wants Bush's Iraq quagmire on the front burner?

Because Bush loves to talk about his stonewalling of the 9/11 investigations and his heroic response on 9/11?

Why does Rove want Dean, again, WiseMen?

Please share your wisdom.

[windansea]

36. just because

[stickdog]

41. Hussein is so 2003. (nt)

[AP]

57. Because they want to run against an angry little Napolean who

cares about one issue, the perception of which is totally within the control of the Republicans.

[Scott Lee]

39. Really? Have you dialed up ol' Karl and asked him?

I didn't think so. Thanks.

[Scott Lee]

37. It's called a "poker face".

[Forkboy]

43. You nailed it

I'd love to play cards with some DUers here :evilgrin:

[artr2]

40. I don't believe ANYTHING by a repukkk commentator

Like I wanna get hooked into that bs. And you shouldn't care either, just work your ass off for the candidate of your choice

ps I LOVE the spell checker!!!

[Myra]

44. Well the Pugs constantly broadcast their strategy, and we're constantly

Shocked. But we should be used to it by now.

General Tommy Franks openly discusses the likelihood of scrapping
the constitution for a military form of govt. Plans to bring
back a draft are planted in the media. And Safire, who is
nothing but a PR hack for Pugs (Krugman just wrote a column
slamming him for taking money from Pugs) now worries openly
that their preferred Dem fall guy won't stand up long enough to fall.

The Pugs constantly broadcast their strategy. This is nothing
unusual for them. They're blatant and arrogant.

[adadem]

53. That way

nobody is too shocked (and awed).. they read it before so they get used to it.

[KittyWampus]

56. Two Words- Mein Kampf. Hitler Pretty Much Broadcast His Intent

it was all there in black and white.

Project For A New American Century- all there on the internet. Even with amention of needing a traumatic event to galvanize the public.

Yes, The Far Right is broadcasting their intent.

[shivaji]

45. Typical Rove Reverse-Psychological Strategy

Does any one with an ounce of gray matter think Rove would make public his real strategy? If yes, I have a bridge for sale.

The truth is Rove does NOT want Dean as the dem nominee. Clark would be the easiest one for kkk Rove to demolish in November. All Rove has to do is run commercials in October showing Clark speeches praising Bush*co. It will completely confuse and de-energize our base, especially african-americans and labor.

[WiseMen]

48. Every single Educated Republican I Know SALIVATES AT PROSPECT OF DEAN!

I am sure they (AND BILL CLINTON, LEON PANETTA,..ETC ETC) could
all be wrong.

I think Howard Dean could be pretty good against Bush.

But all conventional wisdom, focus group data, polling data ...
indicates that he is will be much weaker against Bush than
Kerry or Clark.

[Scott Lee]

50. You must be able to count them on one hand.

Hardly what I'd call worthy of losing sleep over.

[adadem]

52. Agreed n/t

[Eric J in MN]

54. If that was so effective, why don't the other Dems play that?

Wesley Clark said "we have a great new team in Washington" or something like that about the Bush Administration. Big deal.

He's still a 4 star general with corresponding credibility about national security.

[MGKrebs]

46. I don't see any big mystery .

Any candidate can be dangerous. Some more than others perhaps. But for the 'Pubs to expend a lot of time and money somehow trying to "make" a Dem candidate is ludicrous. They would be attacking any frontrunner. Their strategy is to weaken anyone who they might face, and the Dems in general. It is no secret, and we are doing the same thing to them.

[Kool Kitty]

58. Who cares what Safire and Novak think?

Safire is an idiot and Novak is a traitor, in my opinion. Why the hell is Novak still working?