DU is under attack.

[Beam Me Up]

I can't prove that assertion but it is my perception based on an overview of posts in several forums. As most of you know, I'm more of a reader than a poster here. With recent events, DU has become more of a legitimate threat to the establishment than we have been before. The attacks may take many forms but the primary mode will be to divide and concur. DIVIDE and concur. Keep that in mind. Those that unite us and make us stronger, more focused, more unified and directed in our opposition to the regime now in power are our friends. Those who distract us with trivialities, thinly veiled insults to one group or another, or that turn us one against another, they may very well be our enemies in DU avatars.

Also keep in mind that every time you post to a thread, in a sense you are voting 'for' it, even if you disagree with the OP. It keeps it kicked up where more eyes will see it. Sometimes letting a thread drop is the best tactic.

Thanks for your attention.

BMU

( I have to leave for work so if you find this of interest or credible, you'll have to kick it. )

[helderheid]

1. Couldn't agree more - K & R

[converted_democrat]

59. Funny we were talking about this very issue yesterday.. I agree, I

think DU is under attack.. I think we represent a bigger threat to them than some of us realize..

[xultar]

2. I agree. But I always get the we don't always have to think like you

or the DLC lover posts in return. OMG. I get so sick of that divisive crap.

I do believe wholeheartedly that there is an attempt to divide and conquer here. That is why I've spent less and less time because it sickens me to see it occur. I don't know if we are to naive or blind but there are things here that make me wonder. I'm just sick of calling them out.

[0007]

49. I know how ya feel about exhausting energy on a mindless fuck.

I pass on many with the feeling that eventual I can drown them out with post after post that contradicts and exposes their rhetoric. OTH, I believe some are paid to spy and disrupt.

[Just Me]

3. Yep. "Divide and conquer" says it all. n/t

[Boojatta]

28. Are you sure that the word "concur" wasn't used deliberately in the OP?

Conquer = to overcome by physical, mental, or moral power

Concur = to express agreement

"To counsel deaf, but not to flattery."

"Are we so prostrate because some flatter us that we are unmindful of the rights of others?"

"In the effort to design safe products, a yes-man mentality can be hazardous."

[Just Me]

35. What is your opinion?

}(

[Boojatta]

39. My opinion doesn't count for much. If freudian slips are real, then maybe

the author of the OP made a freudian slip.

[Boojatta]

62. Slip or no slip, it inspired a thread in the Bush/Conservatives Forum

Divide and Concur (Yes, "concur", not "conquer")

[Warpy]

42. Yeah, misspellings as bad as that certainly arouse

my suspicions, had not the opinion expressed already done it.

Hey, we're DEMOCRATS. You want a bunch of people who march in lockstep and never think of thinking for themselves, try that other party.

[Boojatta]

46. I wasn't suspicious. I was reading through the OP waiting for a more

explicit explanation of the "divide and concur" idea. I didn't find it, but I am still interested in seeing an explanation. I only have a vague idea of what it could mean.

[TechBear_Seattle]

4. Let's not confuse legitimate anger with "attacks" n/t

[annabanana]

5. You have hit it on the head..

The more influence we have the more attention is drawn to us. (And the greater is the desire of those whose oxen we are goring to mess us up)

I would look very carefully at threads who's only purpose seems to be to incite flame wars. (And then I would ALERT and NOT POST on it.)

[Lars39]

6. I can't disagree. I've seen more RW talking points here today

than I have in a long time.

[Horse with no Name]

8. They have been slipping in

on a pretty regular basis in the last few weeks.
IMHO, we should be able to call them out, but I don't make the rules, I just try to live by them for the most part.
Sometimes I just can't help myself and end up getting deleted.

[Lars39]

18. Me, too.

[catmandu57]

20. You too huh?

I've had my first ever deleted post last week after nearly five years, I guess it's getting to me and calling a spade a spade is against the rules.

[yurbud]

47. I am a constant critic of the DLC, but I have seen odd posts that are

violent and abusive in tone and content in a way that is uncharacteristic of what most post here.

[Crazy Dave]

7. I actually think that the negative posts against our democratic leaders...

finally got some attention from them. It's just my opinion, but I don't think Kerry would have flown back to the US and did what he did except for hearing about a lot of pissed of dems who demanded that they not just bend over and grab their ankles for another far right judge.
Just my opinion.

[we can do it]

9. And Isn't the Timing A Coincidence - We Are Stronger Together People

Ignore the trolls.

[stop the bleeding]

10. I agree it is hard to separate fact from fiction in the fog of war. n/t

[bryant69]

11. Yes, but

How do preserve the discussion between those of us who legitimatey disagree? Is there a DU orthodoxy that we should all adhere to for the moment?

Who's more likely to be a Conservative Mole, someone who posts moderate positions or someone who posts extremist positions?

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[tatertop]

12. I think a lot of Democrats have had it

And this is good.
The Democratic Party needs a good working over.
It is long past time for making believe it's all good.
It is not all good.
It is mostly very bad. We are in trouble.
There is almost no one speaking for us.
One of my Democratic Senators, a man I worked hard
to help elect, fucked us on Alito.
This is not the first time he has
turned his back on the will of the people
and the best interests of the people.
If we do not change our game plan we will lose everything
for a long long time.

[canichelouis]

13. Hear ya loud and clear

[DS1]

14. Ever notice that when you talk to people outside of DU, NONE of them

have heard of it?

legitimate threat to the establishment indeed :eyes:

[Boojatta]

15. This problem is very general. Perhaps there is a general solution.

Also keep in mind that every time you post to a thread, in a sense you are voting 'for' it, even if you disagree with the OP. It keeps it kicked up where more eyes will see it.

Would it be possible to modify the forum software to provide the option of responding without kicking?

[ima_sinnic]

16. yes, I agree completely

the "quit saying the elections were stolen" threads are a dead giveaway

[grace0418]

45. Hell yeah. That one was ridiculous.

I made the mistake of responding but I just couldn't help it. I'm tired of being called a lunatic for believing what is all too painfully obvious.

Here is my post:

**Want to know what I don't understand?**

Why it's so hard for some of you to believe the elections were stolen? I mean, seriously, in all honesty? What is so outrageous about that?

Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not one of the people you're referring to who give up because they say the elections are stolen. My point all along has been that we have to get ENOUGH of a majority to override the tampering. There simply has to be a point where it's too blatant for them to rig. If Dems win in a landslide we'll overcome anything.

However, I fail to understand how DUers can come here every day and read about the lies, the corruption, the hidden agendas, and the dirty tricks of the Republican party and think they WOULDN'T rig elections. Bu$hCo has shown nothing but contempt for the Constitution, the rule of law, civil and human rights, and basic decency. The GOP is bed with Corporate America, Big Oil and MSM. They have literally nothing keeping them from rigging elections because they don't give a shit about consequences, only power and money. Think of how many thousands of Americans and Iraqis are DEAD for NO REASON. What, suddenly they're going to be worried about getting caught rigging an election?

"Ask yourself why it is the NSA can't keep a spying program secret, but all of Diebold' software writer's are in on the fix."

First of all, ALL of Diebold's software writers don't have to be in on the fix. It only takes a few to do some serious damage. My husband is a software engineer and he doesn't have access to what anyone outside his immediate team is doing.

Second of all, I'm not surprised that Diebold would be better able to keep a lid on their doings than the NSA. Despite the work Bu$hCo has done to keep secrets, there is still a certain amount of leaking that goes on in all government agencies. Moreso than in corporations anyway.

I mean, goddamn, saying that it's implausible the election was stolen is like saying the burglar who's running out your back door with your valuables, your wallet and your keys WOULDN'T POSSIBLY steal your car, too! C'mon, that's just preposterous! Anyone who suggest otherwise is crazy!

[EFerrari]

17. Keep your focus. Make'em sit at the kid's table and hit alert

when you need to.

We'll be okay. :hi:

[Lars39]

25. And ask 'em for links/sources.

"Gotta link for that?" used to be standard fare around here, but I don't see that as much now.

[bee]

19. totally. dont the freepers have anything better to do?

like go fight in a war or something?

[AllieB]

21. Like you, I read more than I post

I have also noticed a preponderance of threads that attack DUers, painting them with a 'loony left' broad brush. As a moderate Democrat, I take offense when a supposedly pro-DLC (or Republican posing as a DLCer) labels anyone to the left of Joe Lieberman a radical. I agree with you-we are under attack.

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

22. I've suspected the same thing. n/t

[gratuitous]

23. I guess we're past the ignore stage and the ridicule stage

We're well into the fighting stage, and our immediate goal is the 2006 mid-term election.

[William769]

24. Cheers!

:toast:

[hwmnbn]

26. You have a legitimate point....

most DU members are committed and smart enough to cause "problems" for the chimp regime. Recently, the frustration and anger in our membership has been notched up a bit by the lack of commitment from some dem politicians. Some here consider it betrayal, and that has to be addressed.

I think we are vigilant enough to spot any external attempt to undermine our cohesiveness as a group, even when we swear and rant at each other. We can disagree forcefully and still be on the same side; the chimp must go side.

The concern should always be there, but I for one feel a tighter bond with folks on this forum. Hell, Skinner and his crew have held it together for all this time. They're experienced enough to spot trends and dirty tricks.

I appreciate you giving it some thought and posting here. :thumbsup:

[Lugnut]

27. K&R

Yep. Unmistakable.

[Ian David]

29. Divide and Discredit and Distract

They know which issues divide us. For example, Israel. They come here and post inflamatory threads like, "If Israel does X... can we stop supporting them?"

The other thing they do is post whacked-out loonybins theories here to both divide us and make us look stupid.

"DU says Bush stole the election!"
"Really? I didn't know that!"
"And DU also says that the oil companies caused the Asian Tsunami!"
"Oh, it's one of THOSE sites! Never mind. Is '24' on tonight?"

Conspiracies are not spaghetti. You don't throw them all at a wall and see which ones stick.

You pick the good ones, the real ones-- and those are the ones you present. Once you throw something crazy at someone, they stop listening and disregard the rest.

The right-wing knows that, so they post stupid shit to discredit and divide and distract us.

[Pachamama]

30. Accurate observation my friend....

:hi:

well said advice...

[Norquist Nemesis]

31. Absolutely Agree!!! After taking a break from here all I'm seeing

is "it's all Dems fault!; traitors! Reid should step down; Durbin needs to go" and everything else blaming Democrats.

Yes, we had four Democrats vote to confirm. Gee, how many Republicans voted not to confirm? How much pressure went toward Republicans at the close of the hearings to sway them to a No vote on Alito?

I have to admit, taking a breather does give a fresh perspective. And I'm wondering if there are any boards boards that are excoriating the so-called moderate Republican senators for voting to confirm Alito.

[uppityperson]

32. Just found 1 with 1000+ that I chose to not answer

so perhaps it will drop. Not quite bad enough to alert on yet, or I would since alert is my friend.

[displacedtexan]

33. I check DU 3 times each day, and...

I've noticed the same thing.

I have my standard Lucy Van Pelt response too: "We had spaghetti 3 times at our house last week."

[understandinglife]

34. Alert and Ignore == the two most effective ways to deal with'um.

Peace.

[Bridget Burke]

36. More liberal whining from the Loony Left!

I'm joking! I'm joking!

They've been coming out of the woodwork lately. But--after tonight's inspiring speech--I'm sure most of them will be in Basic Training by next week.

[northamericancitizen]

37. K & R

[Helga Scow Stern]

38. It's always best not to respond to disruptors, no matter how subtle.

I found out the hard way it just bleeds off energy and spirit, which I think is exactly what is intended. Psyops do have some skillful means, after all.

[shadowlight]

40. Found this interesting post through

firedoglake.http://washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2006_01/008107.php#810427

[BuyingThyme]

41. I have a suggestion.

How 'bout the Moderators remove newbies who cryptically refer to the Democratic Party as the KKK, instead of removing posts identifying the posters as trolls.

Call me crazy

[0007]

43. Indeed they are. And very easy to pick out. I like the ones

that pretend to be centrist Democratic royals. And the folks that don't agree with em are far far left even farther to the left than the Green Party.

[yurbud]

51. refusal to respond with evidence and exclusively relying on

attacks and insults is the tip off.

Apparently, they are paid to post a very narrow list of talking points and not to do even the most rudimentary research.

[Felix Mala]

44. Let's put together a new Declaration of Independence outlining

all of the ways Bush has violated his oath to protect the Constitution and broken laws against humanity overseas. Let no one post here who is unwilling to sign on to this oath.

[stepnw1f]

48. Thank You!

The roaches need some sunlight. I appreciate posts like this, and I for one should have tried this approach earlier this morning.

[yurbud]

50. Joel Stein 'I don't support troops' column was tipping their hand

If that wasn't a right wing plant and intentional distortion of the anti-war position, the posts that supported him here were.

We have seen planted news, planted fake letters from the troops, planted fake pundits, and even planted fake evidence for the war.

It would not be a great step further to plant fake opposition to make us look bad since people are starting to tune out their most strident advocates like Limbaugh, O'Reilly, and Coulter.

[Jane Austin]

52. I have to agree with you . . . reluctantly.

I think some of the disruptors are Rove-good, too.

That makes them hard to distinguish from our own.

[itcfish]

53. Excuse My Ignorance

Just what is an "OP"? and what is a "DU Avatar?, I thought avatars were cute little pictures one puts on their posts.

[hopeisaplace]

54. good points

[NoAmericanTaliban]

55. If I wanted lock-step thinking I would be a Republican..

diversity of view points is a healthy thing & what separates DU from other blogs. You are not going to agree with everything & you shouldn't. There is way too much obsession over the Freepers. It is fun to have a rivalry, but not to the point of obsession. I've tangled with them on other sites & it is almost too easy to get them stirred up. They call us names we call them names & so on & so on.. Haven't come across a mole yet - that could be entertaining.

I think there are too many post at DU about the Freepers such as
Can you believe what the freeper said..
What are the Freepers doing now
Have you heard the latest about the Freepers blah blah blah
etc.

Everyone has a right to post as well as not to respond. There is so much material to post with all the criminal stuff that is going on with Bush, Freeper Obsession can be a distraction.

On second thought, I wonder what the Freepers are doing right now :) not

btw - Please add Freepers to the spelling checker

[Mazie Gordon]

56. DU Mods - this is one of the FR trolls

http://www.baristanet.com/barista/2006/01/alito_confirmed.html#comments

About halfway down, posted by "Right of Center", links to DU & this thread.
This guy is a freeper that posts incessant right wing talking points to this NJ blog. He's giggling like the pussified little girl that he is.

Richard, if you're reading this - you've been outed, asswipe.

[Just Me]

57. Welcome to DU, Mazie!!!!

:hi: What a great post! :rofl:

[Mazie Gordon]

61. Thanks Just Me

I've been hanging around DU a long time, reading more than posting.

Oh, Richard - if you're still on this thread - you're still an asswipe.

[NoAmericanTaliban]

67. What a moron Right of Center is, probably a Chicken Hawk like

most of the repukes. If he is that much of a Bush supporter why isn't he in Iraq with his boots on the ground. The military recruiting age limit has been changed to 42.

[oasis]

58. Freeped to the max.(eom)

[BiggJawn]

60. Hey guys, I'm not a Troll..

just an argumentitive, traitorous asshole, honest.
I've never even had COFFEE with Agent Mike!

[Nothing Without Hope]

63. Yes, I think that does occur, but there is also legitimate frustration and

venting. People need to be aware of both divisive and disheartening influences and respond - or NOT respond - to them accordingly. The moderators do a good job of checking out alerted posts, but some do slip through.

As for the posts that express frustration and anger more than deliberate divisiveness, I think we should all think twice before posting. Posts that are telling people that they are stupid and naive for not giving up, or that the fight being discussed is hopeless, are certainly counterproductive for us all. Keeping our spirits up and encouraging one another is one of the important functions of DU. Further, even responding to such posts can be disruptive when a flamefest breaks out.

There's a good reason why we're often reminded to not feed the trolls. We can't always know which ones are the trolls vs which ones are frustrated people on a bad day venting too much, but in both these cases a good response is to be calm and positive. If the poster persists, hit ALERT if they become abusive and simply ignore them if they keep whining.

DU is not a chat room. The level of discussion (except in the Lounge ;) ) is more intense than that. We are exchanging information and doing what we can to build our community. These are difficult times and we all have moments - or days or weeks - when we just can't see the way forward and even may feel foolish to keep fighting. In my opinion, those are times to withdraw and recharge. It's NOT "skillful," as the Buddhists say, to post then and tell other people they're stupid to believe there is hope. It's also wrong, because there IS hope. Reminding one another of this is one of the functions of DU. And we HAVE accomplished so very much, with the momentum clearly building.

As I have grown older, I have found that maintaining a sense of hope in times of stress and trouble is a life discipline analogous to good hygiene and eating habits. You have to find your own methods, options that work for you to recharge and re-energize. Conversely, you learn what to avoid when you're dealing with "down" feelings and low spiritual energy. I really don't think that making negative, ugly, discouraging posts at DU helps anyone. Rather, that would be a good time to shut off the computer and the radio for a while and taking a walk, or visiting with friends, or doing other positive things. Step back and re-center.

Then come back to the fight.

As for those negative, divisive posts, don't let yourself be drawn in and distracted, drained by them. If they are abusive, hit ALERT. If they are "sincere" downers - which I think sometimes do come from deliberate disruption by Bush supporters - ignore them and move on. They waste your time and heart and hope, and those commodities are too precious for that.

[AX10]

64. I agree with you.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2422604

[jsamuel]

65. thanks, stick together guys

[truth2power]

66. I just started a thread before I read this. You're not kidding!

At least I know I'm not crazy. I replied to two posts (same person), earlier, and by the time I refreshed the screen their posts had been deleted. I thought the person was an operative, to tell the truth. And it's all over the board today.

I don't want to be accused of calling people out, but gawdalmighty!..it's really in-your-face. Too obvious to ignore.

[Skinner]

68. DU isn't under attack.

I think the problem here is that some people can't comprehend that progressives don't agree on everything.

If you think someone is a disruptor, hit alert and let the moderators deal with it.

Locking.