Kerry's anti-Italian comment on Don Imus's show (link included)

[_Jumper_]

http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2002/12/john_kerry_said.html

"The Iraqi army is in such bad shape, even the Italians could kick their butts."-Kerry

[Edge]

1. How is that Anti-Italian?

[_Jumper_]

3. It is an old ethnic stereotype of Italians

n/t

[jsw_81]

47. Oh please

It was only a joke. Anyone who has followed history knows that the Italian army is notoriously bad; they couldn't even beat the third-rate Ethiopians or French without Hitler's assistance.

[creativelcro]

55. LOL: sounds like he's talking about the US military at the beginning

of the last century...

[IndianaGreen]

28. Sons of Italy respond to Kerry's ethnic slur

Someone ought to tell Kerry about the carabineri that died in Iraq trying to impose a peace that his war vote made necessary.

CSJ Responds to Kerry Remark

Commission for Social Justice Responds to Kerry Remark

Contact: Diane E. Crespy

Washington, D.C., Dec. 3, 1997 -- The Commission for Social Justice (CSJ) has demanded a public apology from U.S. Sen. John Kerry (D-Mass) in response to a statement he made on the Imus in the Morning show that was offensive to Italians and Italian Americans.

The Associated Press reported on Nov.13 that, commenting on Iraqi military strength, Kerry said ". . . even the Italians could kick their butts."

"Be advised that your senseless and inane comment. . . is a disgrace not only to Italy. . . but relegated to ridicule the tens of thousands of Italian Americans who gave their lives in defense of our country," CSJ President Angelo R. Bianchi said in a letter to Kerry. Bianchi said that by his statement, Kerry has asserted "a negative stereotype of Italian Americans which certainly is contrary to the principles upon which this nation was founded."

Bianchi requested that Kerry publicly apologize via the media to Italy and Italian Americans for his "insulting" comment. By date of release, there has been no response from Kerry.

CSJ is the anti-defamation arm of the Order Sons of Italy in America (OSIA), the oldest, largest, and most demographically diverse organization of Italian-American men and women in North America. The CSJ works to ensure equal concern, treatment, respect, freedom, and opportunity for all people regardless of race, ethnicity, creed, age, or sex.

http://www.osia.org/public/newsroom/pr12_03_97.asp

[JohnLocke]

46. kick

[creativelcro]

58. Absolutely.... It's an outrage...

He's making fun of italian policemen who died in Iraq for a war he voted for... You start seeing the braggadocio side of Kerry....

[_Jumper_]

2. Italian-American response

http://www.osia.org/public/newsroom/pr12_03_97.asp

"Be advised that your senseless and inane comment. . . is a disgrace not only to Italy. . . but relegated to ridicule the tens of thousands of Italian Americans who gave their lives in defense of our country," CSJ President Angelo R. Bianchi said in a letter to Kerry. Bianchi said that by his statement, Kerry has asserted "a negative stereotype of Italian Americans which certainly is contrary to the principles upon which this nation was founded."

Bianchi requested that Kerry publicly apologize via the media to Italy and Italian Americans for his "insulting" comment. By date of release, there has been no response from Kerry.

CSJ is the anti-defamation arm of the Order Sons of Italy in America (OSIA), the oldest, largest, and most demographically diverse organization of Italian-American men and women in North America. The CSJ works to ensure equal concern, treatment, respect, freedom, and opportunity for all people regardless of race, ethnicity, creed, age, or sex.

[Nazgul35]

4. Gee....maybe that's why

he never said anything when Fritz Hollings made those incencitive remarks.....

Once is a gaffe.....more than once is a pattern of behavior..

[mzmolly]

7. Then consider it a *pattern*

While this is old, and it's been used on Dean in recent months, I think we see an established pattern here?

The Gaffes of John Kerry
His most embarrassing quotes...
By Timothy Noah, William Saletan, and Chris Suellentrop
Posted Thursday, Oct. 2, 2003, at 6:17 AM PT


Slate continues its short features on the 2004 presidential candidates. Previous series covered the candidates' biographies, buzzwords, agendas, worldviews, best moments, worst moments, and flip-flops. This series assesses each candidate's most embarrassing quotes, puts them in context, and explains how the candidate or his supporters defend the comments. Today's subject is John Kerry.

Quote: "What we need now is not just a regime change in Saddam Hussein and Iraq, but we need a regime change in the United States" (Boston Globe, April 3, 2003).

Charge: Then-GOP Chairman Marc Racicot said Kerry "crossed a grave line when he dared to suggest the replacement of America's commander in chief at a time when America is at war." Racicot said Kerry's remark was "designed to further Sen. Kerry's political ambitions at a time when the lives of America's sons and daughters are at stake." John Podhoretz of the New York Post accused Kerry of drawing an "implicit parallel … between Saddam Hussein and George W. Bush."

http://slate.msn.com/id/2089125/

[bigtree]

9. Can we reply with Gov. Dean's gaffes

Or would that be considered bashing?

[Nazgul35]

24. nope...

when Gov. Dean was being beaten day after day on his supposed "gaffes" any attempt by Dean supporters to raise similar things done by other candidates was ridiculed as a lame attempt to change the subject because they couldn't adequetly defend their candidate's mistake.....

so don't get upset when you get the same response.....because people will....

whether it is fair or not doesn't matter anymore...

[_Jumper_]

29. Bingo!

n/t

[Cocoa]

5. any complaint about an ethnic slur could be one of two things...

it could be an honest complaint, or it could be a weapon to be used against someone.

If it's the latter, it's very counterproductive, imo.

[_Jumper_]

30. I have always been consistent on this

Ask Hillary Clinton fans. ;)

[Cocoa]

44. what about republicans?

How often do you dig up proof of GOP racism, compared to dems?

[_Jumper_]

49. Dig up?

This is the only time I've "dug up" evidence about bigotry. Usually someone else does and I respond to it with consistent denunciations. This is relevant given his recent Chinese ethnic joke.

[snyttri]

6. Kerry's spending too much time with Senator Ernest "chinaman" Hollings

[bigtree]

8. Maybe he meant the Italian army

How big is the Italian army? Not very large, I imagine. That would make the joke benign. He did say the Italians. I don't think he meant that as a reflection on the Italians who may serve in, or in concert with our forces.

I think the CSJ jumped awfully fast. I wonder if they bothered to call John Kerry to clarify his remarks. It is not clear that he meant it as a slur. Rather it seems to be a comparison between the size if the Italian military in comparison to ours.

Lot of noise about nothing I think.

[_Jumper_]

31. Nope

This is an old anti-Italian ethnic slur used by WASP's.

[KFC]

10. I have never been so offended in my life!

Luca Milano

[frustrated_lefty]

11. That Northern Liberal

just keeps finding ways to disenfranchise people, doesn't he. He didn't even have to pass a law or introduce legislation (a process which would be new to him), he just told a segment of America he has no respect for their heritage. And, sadly, this is what we are putting up against Bush.

[_Jumper_]

33. How can he win NJ and NY with such beliefs?

n/t

[Leilani]

51. Don't forget

Connecticut!

[fujiyama]

52. Are you serious?

This was a comment about the ITALIAN ARMY!

[_Jumper_]

53. Based on an ethnic stereotype

n/t

[bigtree]

12. Did the poster mention that this happened in 1997 and that he apologised

I've seen much worse here in the attacks foisted on John Kerry. Apologies anyone?

[_Jumper_]

32. Context

He recently made an ethnic comment about Chinese people. I posted this to show that his comment was not an isolated incident.

[bigtree]

39. He did not make an ethnic comment about Chinese people

And you have provided no proof of such a comment.

[dawn]

13. I don't find that offensive.

I'm about 3/4 Italian-American, as my grandparents were born in Sicily. That comment does not offend me in the least.

I think people take things way too seriously.

As an Edwards supporter, I think we need to stop attacking Kerry as it only helps Bush. Yes, he's made some gaffes. He's human.

[Edge]

15. Agreed. Couldn't have said it any better myself.

[NNN0LHI]

14. I am Italian and I am very offended

Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

Don

[LeftPeopleFinishFirst]

16. i'm italian-american

and i don't find that offensive.

[sallyseven]

21. During WW II the Italian

Army was not well thought of,.. they quit in 1943. Two years before the war was over. Mussolini was a failure and the people over there hung him.

[Fleshdancer]

17. I'm not Italian, but

now I'm craving Italian food.

I don't know about their army, but damn their food is good. ;)

[tishaLA]

18. People, please.

I'm not Kerry fan either, but this one is just about five steps below the botox commentary. Give it a rest.

[_Jumper_]

34. Ethnic slurs are okay?

?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

19. Your supposed link is a RW source and the article that they claim

as a source just gives a 'page not found'.

[_Jumper_]

35. Read post #2

Is that Italian-American group part of the vast right-wing conspiracy too?

[blm]

20. Standard issue military joke that's been around since WW2.

Every veteran gets it.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sangha]

36. Is there suddenly a shortage of ethnic slurs on the Internet?

If not, then please leave them at the door

[Old and In the Way]

23. That's a slur?

Sounds like a fact to me. The Iraqi army got destroyed in 91....Kerry was just explaining their relative weakness by comparison.

Unless you believe that the Italian Army is one of the most formidable armies, I'd think you could appreciate Kerry's point that they were not a threat, army-wise.

[_Jumper_]

37. It's an old anti-Italian WASP slur

There is a reason he picked the Italian army to make his point...

[blm]

42. It's a military joke from WW2 and on.

.

[IndianaGreen]

41. Tell that to the Italian Carabineri that died in Iraq

thanks to all those American politicians that supported Bush's war of aggression.

[MAlibdem]

25. Even if the comment is bad

which it isn't really...I don't think there is enough anti-discimination Italian groups in positions of influence to make this even a minor flare up. Remember that McDonald's commercial with the McItalian Sub or something? The ad campaign was positively horrendous. No one cared.

[_Jumper_]

38. They have numbers in states like NJ and NY

If we lose the Italian vote we can't win those two states as well as many others.

[maddezmom]

26. not sure of the source and the link is broken

but do we really need to be doing these kinds of threads? :(

[_Jumper_]

40. Try post #2's link

Yes we do. We need to make sure we don't have a bigot as our candidate. This isn't the first ethnic comment he has made...

[David Dunham]

27. Bush I's Italian Navy Joke

Bush I's ambassador to Italy told this joke: "How do you find the Italian navy? Answer: look through the bottom of a glass-bottomed boat. All the ships are already sunk.

[0rganism]

48. That's a variant of the old "Polish navy" joke

Q. Why does the new Polish navy have glass-bottomed boats?
A. So they can avoid the old Polish navy.

Which is every bit as funny as...

Q. Where do the Polish keep their armies?
A. Up their sleevies.

I suppose this kind of humor could be attached to any ethnicity, but I first heard it attached to the Poles for some reason. *shrug*

[cindyw]

43. Are we going to rehash everything that has happened in the last

40 years? Italy, historically has no army. It is like saying that my daughters preschool class could kick their butts. It was not a put down of Italy. Just as it would not be a put down of my daughters class.

Do I have to misinterpret a quote from your candidate to stop this.

[_Jumper_]

45. He also made a "questionable" comment about Chinese people

There is a pattern here...

He didn't randomly pick Italy. He did that because of a stereotype that he apparently approves of.

[zulchzulu]

50. File under "Desparately grasping at straws"

Man, next thing you know Kerry stepped on a ant once when he was a kid.

[CWebster]

54. Was this the same show when he made the crack about the politician

"taking more vacations than someone on welfare"?

[bicentennial_baby]

56. I think so

Great guy! /sarcasm off

[_Jumper_]

57. I'm not sure

I only heard of this because someone posted about this early in 2003. I don't listen to Imus.

[Moderator]

59. Locking...

There is no credible source linked about Kerry actually saying this...