You Know What Gets My Goat About Dean And His "I'm A Doer" Stuff

[THUNDER HANDS]

Its that he acts like he was the governor of New York or California.

He was the governor of Vermont. Sure it's wonderful that he was able to deliver health care to 90% of people under 18, but how many people is that exactly - a couple thousand?

Dean's "accomplishments" are pretty limited when you factor in (a) the size of the budget he was working with; (b) the number of people he actually had to help; and (c) the fact that his entire state is equal in population to my congressional district.

I mean, really.

Does anyone really expect a guy (who runs on the fact that he was able to give health care to kids) to be able to deliver health care to all Americans under the age of 18?

We're not talking 10,000 little baby Vermonters here. We're talking 15, 16 million kids across the country.

I'd like to see a large state try to do it first, and then we'll see if Dean's accomplishments are based on the merits of his plan, or just a function of the fact that he comes from the second smallest state in the union.

Just because the mayor of my town was able to fill all the potholes on my block doesn't mean he could get elected president and fix every road in America.

I'm suprised more people don't look at this fact and pause.

[bloom]

1. maybe it's because

a alot of us are not from the biggest states and we want to feel like our states are states just the same as the bigger ones.

It seems to me - it's only an issue if you want it to be.

[THUNDER HANDS]

2. well I am from New York, so maybe I'm biased

But I really think that Dean needs to step back and realize that just because something worked in a state with less than a million people in it, doesn't mean it'll work across the nation.

And I think people are coming to that conclusion too.

I have no problem with him saying "I want to give health care to every child in America." Just the fact that he prefaces it with "And I know we can do this becaue I've done it in Vermont."

[w4rma]

31. Only folks from large states are allowed to run for president? (n/t)

[polpilot]

32. Maybe we could limit nominees to 'govs of big states' or 'just white men'

Or..'only men over 5' 10" need apply' or 'Only men who marry women with over $3 million bucks'?? REDICULOUS!!!!

Dean '04...

[dsc]

Oh please

Vermont has the second lowest rate of Medicare reimburment in the entire country, has a lower per capita income than either NY or CA, and those way lower amounts of money per person do accomplish what he did. He also didn't have, like NY and CA do, a literally irreplacable place in which to do business. Other than ski lodges there is no business transacted in VT which couldn't just as easily be done else where. Thus he also did this with business having the ability to leave his state in a heart beat.

[THUNDER HANDS]

8. that's all well and good

But that doesn't prove it can be translated into a national program.

Vermont just isn't a small state. Arkansas is a small state. Vermont is a congressional district with two senators.

I don't see how anyone can think what worked there could work across the nation. Especially since the nation is up to its eyes in debt now.

[dsc]

18. Vermont was up in its eyes in debt when Dean took over

It is one of the few states where unbalanced budgets are permitted and it had one. Dean solved that problem too.

[Paulie]

3. POP: VT = 608,827 | Cook County IL = 5,376,741

Cincinati alone has a larger population than VT. Kucinich has worked for a larger population than VT.

Hello!!! Bueller Bueller!!!!

Dean* was in the executive branch of a government in a state with a population

* - Except Kucinich, his Mayor job was bigger :)

[HereSince1628]

4. Success in a small place is often required for a chance in a big place

By your logic Kerry's victory in New Hampshire and Iowa don't mean much. I doubt you would agree with that.

[THUNDER HANDS]

6. true, I wouldn't agree with that

But obviously Dean's sales pitch on his health care credentials fell on deaf ears in Iowa and his neighboring state.

[DrFunkenstein]

7. Kerry Doesn't Take Them For Granted (That's The Difference)

Kerry knows that momentum will only take through one news cycle. Dean is acting like Vermont is the United States in miniature - despite the fact that it does not have one major metropolitan area.

While it is possible that Dean could find advisors up to the task, it is hardly a given.

Speaking of given, his inability to balance the budget of his campaign hardly commends him to balance the national debt of the largest economy in the world.

All of which is speculation in the end.

[EXE619K]

20. Does Senator John Kerry balance books ....

in the wee hours of the morning on the campaign trail?

Does he even have time?

Didn't think so.

[lurk_no_more]

38. From what I've read

howard can't balance his campaign funds, much less the US budget, then again the state budget of Vermont probably wasn't as big as his campaign budget of 41mil.


And then there were none!
” JAFO”

[lastknowngood]

5. Well he did accomplish things

name a few things that your guy thought up worked for and then implemented. Then we can compare them.

[THUNDER HANDS]

9. well I'll do you one better

Show me something that Dean thought up for himself, and not just took credit for from the severely more progressive Vermont legislature.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

12. OK let's see

He has co authored over 350 bills regardless of which version finally got passed, he conducted investigations into BCCI and IranContra which were sidelined by Clinton and George Bush's doings respectively, he was Lieutenant governor of a state where people actually live.

It isn't hard to provide social justice to an economically wealthy area with less than 5% minorities

[dsc]

19. 26th in median income

that means over half the states have higher, as in wealthier, median incomes.

[sandnsea]

16. Nurse Reinvestment Act

Which is addressing the nursing shortage everywhere.

Global AIDS funding which he's been working on for years, first here with Ryan White legislation and now globally.

Normalizing relations with Vietnam. A whole country.

You put Howard Dean next to John Kerry and Howard Dean doesn't measure up in any area whatsoever.

[HuckleB]

24. Nice try.

It's true that Kerry jumped those bandwagons, but that doesn't make his accomplishments outweigh Dean's, not by a longshot. Dang. I love that phrase. Not by a longshot. Not by a longshot. Not by a longshot.

Yeah, not by a longshot.

;)

[sandnsea]

27. lol

What did Dean do? Use federal programs to create a health care plan? That's it. That's his BIG accomplishment. The guy has done NOTHING.

[HuckleB]

28. Now that's truly funny.

Thanks for the giggle. I needed that.

[sandnsea]

30. No response?

That about sums it up.

[HuckleB]

34. Oh, another laugh?

Dang. Keep 'em coming!

I wouldn't want to stop the laughs by repeating what's been repeated ad nauseum here, there, and everywhere. It's more fun just to laugh.

[sandnsea]

35. I'll be laughing on Tuesday

And in Wisconsin, Washington, Michigan, and all the way to the White House.

[HuckleB]

39. In other words,

this is all about trolling? Dang. Keep the laughs a coming.

[funky_bug]

10. Simple rebuttal

You say that Dean's accomplishments are due to the small number on residents, as opposed to the large number of American residents.

Simple rebutall: revenue derived from said residents. If Dean had less to care for, he had less to work with. Kerry had more to care for, and more to work with.

Percentage wise, Dean and Kerry were equal in revenue, staff, etc..

Doesn't wash. Sorry.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

13. Not when you consider the very small sector of Vermont that is

socioeconomically deprived compared with other areas

[THUNDER HANDS]

14. But vermont has a lot of fairly well-to-do people

Not the uber rich, by any stretch, but I'd say on a whole, the population of Vermont is upper middle class, even if they are rural.

[HuckleB]

23. Huh?

Have you spent much time driving in Vermont, away from the highway? No, the population of Vermon is not upper middle class, not by a longshot.

[bicentennial_baby]

37. Tell me you're not serious

Have you been there? How many times? There are pockets of affluence in VT, but you're way off on the " on a whole, the population of Vermont is upper middle class".

[slinkerwink]

15. you made that point better than I could.....thanks!

[KFC]

26. This is hardly a linear problem

Revenue a per capita constant, providing health care for two people does not demonstrate that you are capable of providing health care for 200 million people.

Reality is seldom found in straight lines.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

29. Your rebuttal doesn't hold water.

Yes, Dean had less revenue because his state was smaller.

Similarly, the owner of a single espresso stand has less revenue to work with than the owner of 100 espresso stands. Let's say they both turn the same % profit.


Does mean they are equally qualified to be the CEO of Starbucks?

Obviously not.

[sandnsea]

11. Children's Health Insurance Program

Every state has it because of the federal government. New Hampshire's program is better than Vermont's. He does not have ALL children covered or 99% of children covered, he's got 96% of children covered which is the same number as 18 other states. His health program runs million dollar deficits every year and the only way he's been able to cover them is through surpluses because of the booming economy in the Clinton years.

What gets my goat about Dean and his "I'm a Doer" stuff is that it's pretty much bullshit.

[Maddy McCall]

36. Exactly--and signing people up to the program that was FEDERALLY FUNDED

did not require funds, but publicity. Smaller states have an easier time bringing people into CHIPS than larger states with huge urban minority populations.

And on your "gets my goat" comment: Yep, that bothers me too.

[jburton]

17. Bush* & Raygun governed large states

go figure.

[frustrated_lefty]

21. MR

I kind of view you as rabidly anti-Dean, and maybe that is unfair. But look at what you're saying. He "only" governed a "small" state. Come on, be fair. How many people have actually governed anything, much less one of the 50 states of America.

He governed, he did a good job. You are being grossly unfair and rude if you are going to diminish his achievements in any state in this country. And I will wager money that neither you nor I have accomplished so much good within our lifetimes.

Dislike Dean if you want. But give the man his due. What you just said insults every single person who lives in Vermont, and it does so unjustly.

[THUNDER HANDS]

33. Did I ever say *I* could do better?

No, I said Dean did what he did. And in my eyes it's minor league stuff.

If he wants to have "street cred" in political terms. He would have had to do what he did in New York, Ohio, Florida, Texas. Or at least a state with two or three million people.

Some state where we could get a reasonably good representation of how it would work across the country.

Vermont doesn't cut it in my eyes. And don't compare him to Clinton. Because NOBODY in this race is Bill Clinton.

So this is a question your candidate is going to have to answer. Before it's too late.

Because if he really wants a debate with John Kerry, one on one, then he's going to have to answer that.

Until then, voters are going to see him as just a guy they really really like, but aren't going to vote for him.

(and note - I'm not anti-Dean because I question him. This is a real honest question that Dean is going to have to answer.)

[HuckleB]

22. Please don't bring Edward Albee into this.

I mean, that poor goat has been through enough already.

But since you brought it up, Dean's accomplishments are nothing to sniff at, goat or no goat. That's not an easy state to bring together. Anyway, it's where he lived. It's where he served, and he did well. His accomplishments are not diminished simply because he didn't live in New York or California.

[mzmolly]

25. And compared to other *Vermont* Governors and Govs around the nation

in smallish states Dean did *do*....