A REAL protest: Time to hit them in their wallets.

[Capn Sunshine]

I learned one thing from the massive anti-war protests we had in the runup to the Iraq quagmire.
The BushCo Fascists know that they can ride out any civil disobedience, provided it doesn't hit them in the wallets.

Though it grieves me to say this, because I make my living there, it may be time to STRIKE AT WALL STREET.

How you ask? Easy. We'll select a day that is unmistakably a day for protest. I will leave it to historians to find a worthy anniversary.

Own any mutual funds? Sell them on that date. If this works effectively,, you will be able to buy them back cheaper later.

Own any stocks? Sell on that date. Same message. Buy back Cheaper later.

Have a subscription to the New York Times, Barrons, or Wall Street Journal? Cancel it ON THAT DAY.

ANY CDs ? WITHDRAW THE MONEY EARLY ON THAT DAY. Straighten your affairs and CLOSE YOUR BANK ACCOUNT THAT DAY.

Credit Cards? Cancel them ON THAT DAY.

None of this can't be undone, but I'm telling you the expense and chaos that would result would be like a dagger to the heart of the Bush regime; because that's when it gets personal; when you cost their corporate overlords money.

Who's with me?

LETS GO GET THOSE NEOCON BASTARDS!

[OrangeCountyDemocrat]

1. I'm With You To A Point....

But something like selling all stocks and mutual funds would have too big an impact on innocent parties, or even people who would support this but are unaware.

I am somewhat doubtful that enough people would participate, and it would need too big an organizing to get it right. However, some of those things suggested do make sense, and would have an effect if they were done nationwide simultaneously. Cancelling of cards or subscriptions, or boycotting companies or establishments, i.e. gas stations, would work if organized, but once again, that's the key.

[Capn Sunshine]

5. If the innocents you speak of look for blame

The finger will be pointed at BushCo. If you waver , sure, we'll lose. They are counting on you wavering.

Think of this. Who wouldn't know about this? How could anyone be hurt except the companies?
This needs to be fleshed out of course, but we can waver, Our resolve must be strong.

If your guilt overwhelms you, when you buy back the stocks you sold, donate some of the consequent profit to charities.

If you don't break a few of their windows, they will never feel the cold.

[NanceGreggs]

2. This idea is beyond EXCELLENT!

I realize, however, that many people will be reluctant to close bank accounts, cancel credit cards, etc. I would hope that many WILL, but there has to be some 'added value' wallet-thumping that is less onerous for those who are unable or unwilling to do so.

If you're not willing to do the above (for whatever reason), you can still MAKE WAVES by calling your bank ON THAT DAY, and inquiring into how to go about closing your account, cancelling your cards, and so on. Call your stockbroker ON THAT DAY and ask if he thinks it's a good day to sell everything off!

This idea could be expanded into other areas - imagine if, ON THAT DAY, everyone didn't SHOP? Didn't go out to dinner? Didn't go to a movie?

Empty streets, buses, subways, restaurants, stores and movie theatres across the country, all ON THAT DAY, would send a very powerful message. And when retailers start reporting the giant drop in patronage ON THAT DAY, it will certainly make the NEWS!

[Capn Sunshine]

6. Nothing I'mk suggesting can't be undone

You can always re-open your bank account, and get another card, etc.
Certainly the stocks you have and the mutual funds you sell will be cheaper to buy back.

But it's this damage they understand. Its a 21st century general strike. Focused; done via modem and phone line.

FOR THE FUTURE. FOR THE SAKE OF OUR GRANDCHILDREN, WE MUST ELIMINATE THIS SCOURGE FROM OUR COUNTRY.

[NanceGreggs]

13. I realize it can be undone ...

But you're asking a lot of people. For some people out there, it would seem too onerous a task to do all of this, and then go back and un-do it. And if the task is too onerous, it won't get the massive response necessary.

I'm strictly a cash-and-carry person for years now - I don't own any stock or mutual funds, nor do I use credit cards. So how do I participate? There are also often fees associated with closing accounts and re-opening them -- it shouldn't cost people money to join in.

There will be people willing to do everything you've suggested -- but many MORE people will opt-out. That's why I'm suggesting other 'matching' actions that will send the same message.

If, all ON ONE DAY, towns and cities across the country reported a sudden twenty-four hour period of loss of revenues (restaurants, public transit, movie theatres, bingo halls, pool halls, gas stations, bars -- you name it), the financial powers-that-be would realize that WE are a very large 'consumer group' who will not be marginalized. And the MSM would HAVE TO TAKE NOTICE if the protest was wide-spread.

[Capn Sunshine]

17. cash and carry?

Well first of all , congratulations. This is a cross posted plan; you could do a general strike too, but I'm telling you , the significance of chopping a chunk off the market cap of an S&P company, all because Bush won't leave office, THAT is something that speaks volumes.

[NanceGreggs]

25. You're preaching to the choir!

Firstly, there's no 'congratulations' in being cash-and-carry -- I just refuse to use credit cards. And the reason I don't have any stocks or mutual funds is because I CAN'T AFFORD THEM - not because I'm independently wealthy. I'm a paycheque-to-paycheque American, and always have been -- that's me, and millions of other Americans.

I am NOT disagreeing with your plan -- in fact, I think it's BRILLIANT. I'm just speaking up for people who aren't in a financial position to participate, and who will be completely daunted by the idea of shutting down bank accounts, credit card facilities, etc.

That's why I am advocating LESS DAUNTING participation to go hand-in-hand with what you are suggesting. A citizen who may not have the time necessary to phone the bank, close down an account, fill out necessary paperwork, and then find the time to re-do all of the necessary paperwork to re-open accounts and re-establish credit facilities, will opt out.

But that SAME citizen would be more than willing to forego a trip to the mall, a night at the movies, etc., to be heard.

There's more than ONE way to skin a cat, and Wall Street isn't the only way to cause economic impact.

[Capn Sunshine]

33. I agree

but the most immediate and prominent thing we can do is go for their throats on this, and don't feel badly if you can't participate- just back us up.

[leftupnorth]

3. Interesting

I would participate, how about Valentines Day? Tuesday, Feb 14.

I got a couple of credit cards to cancel and a small mutual fund I could sell.

Don't let the SEC know, though.

[rzemanfl]

4. The fuckers would get wind of it and sell short or whatever it is

they do to make money on a falling market.

[Capn Sunshine]

8. oh, yeah, let them

It's not as if there's a vaccuum. That will accelerate things. But if you through direct action, chop a billion of the market cap of GE, THAT get s their attention.

And you better believe Bush and Cheney would be up all night.

[rzemanfl]

14. Wealth is relative. As long as they have tons more than we do

the numbers are irrelevant. My house is no more comfortable now, worth $200,000 plus in Bush monopoly money, than it was when I bought it for $69,000 eight years ago. Taking back Congress, reinstating the Estate Tax, taxing capital gains and dividends, closing loopholes and going back to the 95% maximum tax bracket that was in effect when I was young, now THAT would hurt them.

[Capn Sunshine]

21. Money is ALL that matters to these guys

If they lose 10% OF THEIR MARKET CAPITALIZATION in one day, THAT sends them a message they cannot ignore.

It's a large cannon shot over their bow; no matter how big the yacht is it still needs a crew to run it.

If they look out the porthole and see the crew leaving the Yacht in a launch, they suddenly realize their vulnerability.

[lostinacause]

46. You wouldn't even need to sell short to make money if people did this.

All that you would have to do is by the stocks at the market price. Short selling is is what people do when the price of stocks are too high. This type of action would make the prices of stocks relatively low (undervalued). It would end up being a transfer from those who are foolish enough to participate in this plan to those who are smart enough to take advantage of this plan. I would have little sympathy for those who try to hurt Bush by trying to hurt Americans and end up loosing money because of their actions.

[shance]

7. Great idea Capn.

Now we have to decide on dates.

[Capn Sunshine]

34. see below

April 23 looks good.....

[democrank]

9. I`ve been racking my brains

trying to think of a mass effort DUers could participate in. Something nonviolent and effective, something that`s considerate of the fact that many folks don`t have a lot of spare time....or money. I don`t have any monetary bargaining chips, but I do have a burning desire to do something.

[tnlefty]

10. Great minds think alike.

I've already pondered closing my largest savings accout and demanding the money in cash on the day if/when Alito is confirmed.

[sandnsea]

11. I said this on Nov 4

Don't have to commit financial suicide, put your money in stem cell, wind, biofuel, even gold for that matter. Just get it out of the hands of the geo-corporatists. We have WAY more power than we think we do.

[Capn Sunshine]

20. excellent call

we should be doing that all along, but most mutual funds are not chartered in that way. They own large baskets of S&P 500 stocks. THAT is why to sell your fund would hit them.

[sandnsea]

24. There's socially responsible funds

I forget the name for them, but we should list them so that people know exactly what their choices are.

(I don't have any money so don't anybody bother asking me if I've done it.)

[ihelpu2see]

29. ASTM is a stem cell co. using adult stem cells with many promising

products being tested... I stress the adult stem cell just to be safe and I know of Dem's. that have issues with emb. stems.

also a good Canadian co. GNBT bucal deliv. of Insulin and vaccines ( all are in trials) these are speculative stocks do your own D/D.

But I would sell all of my JANUS funds and buy more of the two above....

Any good bioFuel stocks???

[sandnsea]

30. Here's some ideas

http://www.sierraclubfunds.com/

http://www.socialfunds.com/

http://www.greencentury.com/home/default.aspx

http://www.womens-equity.com/

http://www.citizensfunds.com/

[toymachines]

12. I wish this could be organized

First step is progressives ending their subscriptions for cable and sattellite. Then maybe I would believe that such a large organized economic protest could work. I would do everything I could in such a situation. this plan has my support.

[Capn Sunshine]

16. We're organizing it RIGHT NOW

Starting with DU. I've seen stranger things catch on. It's doable. We just need the date.

Oh and of course a communique, Osama style, with Skinner in a black Ski mask petting his chihuahua released to the media

What's that Skinner?

OK. I'LL DO IT.....

[tnlefty]

19. Satellite is the only way that I can watch c-span, DemocracyNow and

some other really good programs on Free Speech TV and LinkTV, and that's why I don't want to cancel it. I saw that the "Basement Hearings" will replay tonight and I intend to tape it. My kids need to see it and I'll share it with other people who need to see it. Sorry, but I'm not willing to cancel my satellite. I'll do a lot of other things, but not that.

[Capn Sunshine]

22. I agree, that's why I suggested other things

Bank accounts, credit cards, Mutual funds. Quit THOSE.

[toymachines]

27. you are right

until we can specify which channels we want, it is hard to function as a roundly informed citizen without giving into the overwhelming crap that is the MSM.

[radio4progressives]

15. It's called a General Strike...

Call it for what it is. A General Strike!

Same thing. the impact is ECONOMICAL.

that's the point, that's the target, that's what a General Strike is.

[Capn Sunshine]

18. I agree, but THIS is something we can DO via phone

My original point, that mass protest will not bring these fuckers down. But if you think we can do a general strike in conjunction, I'm all for it.

See, the corporate oligarchy that runs Bushco does not fear a"general strike" because the impact, direct impact on them is too diluted.

That's why I'm saying sell stocks and other financial instruments, cancel credit cards, bank accounts, this shows them REAL leverage and has a DIRECT effect on their bottom lines tha no general strike could afford.

[radio4progressives]

23. I agree with your premise, and a real General Strike is, probably unlikely

But Economic General Strike, has a certain ring to it, and what you're calling for is essentially disrupting or shutting down Wall Street, that's the point right?

So it sort of seemed to me in today's context, this is an Economic General Strike, no?

[Contrary1]

26. April 23rd

"On April 23, 1775 King George III of Great Britain declared, "The colonies are in open and avowed rebellion.
The die is now cast. The colonies must either submit or triumph."

http://www.multied.com/revolt/George.html

[Capn Sunshine]

32. Sounds good

I like this. Thanks. Until we hear differently, Apr. 23.

It's the April 23rd movement.

[Contrary1]

35. Rats! April 23rd is a Sunday.

We'll need to come up with another date. It would probably be a good
idea to avoid Thursday or Friday...too late in the week.

[Capn Sunshine]

37. Good point; needs to be a weekday;

Like Monday- Thursday
for maximum effect

[cdsilv]

28. I can do some, but not all.......

...gotta keep the bank account due to my co. requiring direct deposit of pay, plus
child support pmts.

[Capn Sunshine]

31. Some is the idea

If everyone does SOMETHING, we might get SOMEWHERE :think:

[Ouabache]

40. Correct, everyone does it to the maximum extent they are capable

Everyone joins the effort to the extent they are capable, en masse, one day, so there is an effect.

[Ouabache]

36. And on that day we need to withdraw as much of our cash deposits

as we can, and keep it in our pockets for as long as we can and buy absolutlely nothing on that day, in fact, take something back with a receipt and ask for CASH back on THAT day.

If we had ONE day where we did this it would send a hell of a message.

I have said it here before and it always gets pooh-pooed, so if you are going to poo-poo why not shut up and join up instead ?? What could it hurt.

[Capn Sunshine]

38. Exactly!

We are inundated with negativity; lets just proceed.

I like that exchange something for cash idea.

[Ouabache]

39. We just need a date and blog it every fucking where

and once a date is set. Shut up and join up and DO it.

[Ouabache]

41. k&r -this post needs some more recommendations

soon

[Capn Sunshine]

42. More on this tomorrow

This isn't the end of it by a long shot
Tomorrow we'll discuss the actual mechanics.

[hughee99]

43. Many good ideas, but I have a few questions about stocks and mutual funds

If those of us who do participate in this sell their stocks and mutual funds that are supporting "bad" companies, and assuming these stocks are fairly valued, wouldn't repukes (who wouldn't be participating) just start buying them up at the lower price and stabilize the impact that we have?

If you have invested in an irresponsible company (either directly or via mutual funds), why would you want to buy back in later and start supporting them again?

Should we plan a protest on tax day 2007 to protest the fact that US will be using some the capital gains money that it collected from our protest on the war in Iraq?

I'm all in support of the other stuff, but I fear that we will not be able to get enough people involved to have the impact on Wall Street that we were hoping to, and in the end it may just end up that the repukes who are invested reap the benefits of our protest.

I'm not a market expert or anything, so I'm just speculating on all of this.

[Capn Sunshine]

45. This isn't about "bad " companies

If you sell your mutual funds, ALL companies take a hit, this is about a protest that sends a message to corporate America that states:
"if you allow this regime to continue we're going to cost you money"

[EFerrari]

44. We've already divested. Yikes! But, how can we help?

This imho is a great idea.

[ms.smiler]

53. I too divested, last year. I simply have no confidence in our economy.

I sold stock that I inherited, sold property, closed my savings account and drew down my checking account. I discontinued my news-free newspaper and cable television and I forgo unnecessary spending. I told my son about my actions and he did the same. We share in your efforts.

In Pennsylvania prior to the last election there were business organizations who never before supported Dems, that were inquiring in Harrisburg about how they might help Kerry. I'm wondering what unpleasant economic factors existed in their world that brought them to their knees. It seems to me there must already be a quiet economic revolution underway and our actions and other economic factors have already leveraged support for change within business organizations. For all we know there may already be extraordinary pressure nearing a breaking point, to remove this regime from power - preferably in chains with an appointment at The Hague.

Since you've already divested, you asked what more you can do to help. There was an earlier discussion here with many worthwhile ideas. Please see The Campaign to Starve the Beast if you've not read the discussion.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2600099

I suggest that an additional way for you to help is simply to share your actions with another like-minded individual. Perhaps you know someone willing to withdraw $500 from their savings account or sell their 10 shares of stock that does not produce impressive dividends. Let this effort pass from one American to another American, dollar by dollar. A one day event will garner attention for what may really be an unnoticed ongoing effort that needs only organization and promotion.

For anyone with concerns about dire consequences for the economy from such actions, I contend that support of Wall Street is the domain of the wealthy and that the "owners" in this society increase wages for their employees in order to prime the economic pump.

[tuvor]

47. That's a great idea, but how do you herd enough cats? n/t

[lostinacause]

48. You make a living on Wall Street an you are giving people this advice?

For this type of thing to be effective the price of stocks has to drop. If the price drops people who are not participating (including foreign investors) have a huge incentive to by at the reduced price and sell later when the price re-stabilizes. For this to be anywhere near effective the people who participate will stand to loose money.

Regarding the rest; they end up costing all who are participating effort and raise company’s costs. Some of the costs will inevitably be transferred over to the consumer. It seems in trying to hurt Bush you will end up hurting yourself. Instead of trying to impose costs on society perhaps it would be beneficial to try to look for solutions.

[lostinacause]

49. A caution to all who think this is a good idea, if this ever goes though

and is effective you stand to loose some of your money. There are companies that make a great deal of money exploting the behavioralisms.

Note: This post should be a reply to the original poster.

[Capn Sunshine]

50. I'm not saying it won't cost

I'm not proposing this as a pain free solution to our problems.
I'm not saying it won't cost you some money.

I plan another post on what to expect in fees penalties, etc.

I'm questioning your fear.

That is what the fascists running things are counting on as well, just enough naysayers to create fear.

Sometimes, your money isn't worth jack if you have to live on your knees.

[Common Sense Party]

51. Sell your house on that day, while you're at it.

Think of the massive effect on the overheated U.S. housing market if everyone just unloaded their house on the same day!

Then we'd all be...homeless.

And for every one of us selling, there'd be...someone...buying...so, it might just drive the market higher.

And the banks and mortgage lenders and title insurance companies would all profit off the transactions...

Which would drive their stock prices higher...

Hmmm. Back to the drawing board.

Never mind.

(Note to self: go study some economics.)

52. Time for the masses to become visible

I have been thinking of this very thing for several months now. I will continue to drain my savings account down to the very minimun over the next two months. Corporate America does understand money and it's power so why not take away it's ability to corrupt and enrich the upper 1% that control the Congress of the U.S. Besides what's .6% interest on a Savings Account when you consider the pending economic crash that is waiting for the "Perfect Storm" to happen when we attack Iran. I would also suggest Feb. 20th (Presidents' Day) as the perfect day for the silent American to recreate the "Boston Tea Party"

[bigtree]

54. Good direct attack

I like it. Good 'American' based logic. Credit cards, stocks. magazines, . . . cancelling them. Perfect.

[readmoreoften]

55. how about on the anniversary of the iraq war?

How about getting investors from other nations to pull out as well? The mere suggestion of a hoard of people pulling out simultaneously might get the ball rolling. Why keep it to US nationals? Maybe all those people in London and France that don't support the more might want to take their stocks out of our market.

[radio4progressives]

56. why not coordinate with the World Can't Wait day of actions?

http://www.worldcantwait.net/