Need DU help in responding to this RW argument:

[spooky3]

"Democrats should not take credit for balanced budgets and good economic conditions in recent years. It's the Congress that controls the budget, not the President. The Republicans had control of Congress under most of Clinton's terms, when things were going well. And the Dems. controlled Congress when the deficits were out of control."

Leaving the current Bush fiasco out of the argument (since RWers attribute that to circumstances outside their control and the argument is easily defeated), how would you respond? I have some of the facts to refute it but need more.

Thanks for any help you can provide.

[melnjones]

1. Um...

WHAT balanced budget? lol.

[Canuckistanian]

2. Well, it's basically the same congress today

They took control back in '94, remember?

If the Republican-controlled congress was responsible for economic successes under Clinton, then they must also be responsible for it's utter collapse under Bush.

Besides, Presidents have veto power which can control excesses by Congress (which this pretzledent has never used).

[rfranklin]

3. Both Reagan and Bush Sr. had the power of the veto and never...

used it to control spending. Republicans love deficits and don't believe that they are harmful. As Dick Cheney said, "Reagan proved that deficits don't matter."

The greatest deficit spending has been on "defense" and Republicans love to spend on war toys, whether they protect us in a practical manner or if they even work at all (witness the Star Wars boondoggle). So why worry? Republicans will do what they always do--spend other people's money, siphon off personal fortunes and leave someone else to pay the bill.

[MichiganVote]

4. Ok, so if the Repub's are so great, how come we're broke now?

Besides, it wasn't a Democrat who sponsored a bridge in Alaska totalling $500 million for 50 frickin people on one island going nowhere.

[camby]

5. The Reagan/Bush Deficit

was largely created by tax cuts (remember the Laffer curve/supply side economics?) coupled with increased defense spending to defeat the Red Menace of the Soviet Union. Neither of these ideas had their origin in congress, but rather they were part of the President's platform. The Bush II deficit, once again, comes from tax cuts coupled with increased defense spending, this time for the Iraq war. Once again, the initiative came not from Congress, but from the President. One may argue that congress allows the deficits to occur because it goes along with the President; but these broad sweeping initiatives tend to come from on high.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

6. Clinton won with "it's the economy stupid" remember?

The Republican congress under a Republican President (Bush 1)did poorly. A Republican Congress under the LEADERSHIP of a Democratic president and with a bi-partisan effort cut the deficits and had a roaring economy. Now that we're back to a Republican Congress with a Republican President we are also back to "It's the economy, stupid!" Now that the Republicans are so thoroughly busted by their wallowing in corruption, they really can't be trusted in ANY position. The Democrats CAN do better. Actually, anyone could do better, because this group has set the bar so low.

[CTyankee]

7. In my own city, New Haven, I always talk about

my "first Bush recession" in 1985.My local library branch had to close for two days a week to furlough city workers. Local small businesses went under because people just didn't have the money to spend on their services. My own husband went for 2 years unemployed. When Clinton was elected, things changed. I went back to school and got some tax credits to do so. Our local libraries resumed regular schedules. My husband got a job with the city with great benefits and a good salary.

Now we are once again awaiting the next disaster in our city. I just hope and pray my husband won't be one of the "left behind."

[davhill]

8. Bob Dole (Remember Him)

The Republican leadership use to cooperate with Clinton for the good of the nation. During Clinton's second term they got rid of all their competent leaders and replaced them with corrupt fanatics.

[babylonsister]

9. Surplus when Clinton left office, HUGE deficit now;

tell them to do the math.

[spooky3]

10. but their response is this:

Republicans controlled Congress while Clinton was President, so that shows how brilliant they are with budget management. They dismiss the current situation (huge deficits while Rethugs control Congress) as a temporary problem resulting from factors outside their control (which you and I know isn't true), and give examples of the 9-11 attack and spending to fight terror, increase homeland security, etc.

That's why I want to move back in history to Reagan (or previously) and retrace the steps since then.

[mzmolly]

11. The President PRESENTS the budget, congress approves or not.

:hi: Edited to add CLINTON presented a balanced budget plan, and HE balanced the budget. Here is a short blurb from CNN: http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1998/02/02/budget/

[quisp]

12. but... but... Rush said the boom of the 90s vindicated Reagan!

he said that Reagan's economic policies of the 80s (when Dems controlled Congress) setup the prosperity of the 90s.

It's all BS. Go back 60 years and the economy does better (on average) under Dems than Repugs.

and the BESTEST WAY of countering Repugs lies on ANY subject is to say "prove it". It works because they can't prove anything they just pulled outta their butts.