What you said was:
And this is the basis for the anti-gun collector hysteria in Canada.I said you might have had something more factual to say -- because what you said was NOT factual.
This is only one of the firearm collection thefts that have put large numbers of firearms in the hands of people who have used to them to commit crimes and cause deaths in very recent years.
There may well be "hysteria" in this respect, but not everyone who sees a perfectly clear connection between stolen gun collections and the killings of, and crimes committed against, members of the public is "hysterical".
I know the strictness of the relevant lawsDo you really? Perhaps you could tell us how someone becomes a "gun collector" in Canada.
There's more guns in target shooting than collecting; also, those guns tend to be modern and include lots and lots of handguns. So why spare them?Gee. I wonder whether it might be because sport shooters' firearms haven't been getting stolen, and used in crime and homicides, in quite such large numbers as firearms collectors' have.
There are quite possibly more guns in target shooting than in collecting -- but they don't usually involve "lots and lots of handguns"
in one place, for starters. And they really don't generally involve semi-automatic handguns such as were taken in the theft under discussion.
And they aren't generally stored in vacant apartments in high-rise buildings in high-crime areas of cities.
And target shooters aren't generally high-profile gun nuts like the individual in this case, leading one to suspect that would-be gun thieves might not be quite so familiar with their activities and possessions and whereabouts.
Git yer red hot facts here:
http://www.cfc-ccaf.gc.ca/pol-leg/res-eval/publications/reports/1990-95/reports/angus_rpt_e.aspAmong the three main firearm ownership segments - households which own a rifle, those which have a shotgun, and those which possess a handgun - the survey results show that multiple firearm ownership is most common among households which own a handgun. While an estimated 17 percent (or approximately 1 in 5) of all firearm-owning households in Canada own five or more firearms, this is characteristic of almost one-half (46%) of households which own a handgun. In contrast, it is estimated that only around two in ten of those households which own a rifle (22%) and those possessing a shotgun (21%) have at least five firearms.
... REASON FOR OWERSHIP: <all firearms types, in %>
Target - 60
Hunting - 50
Collecting - 38
Employment - 75
Self-protection** - 52
("Self-protection" is not a valid reason for acquiring a handgun in Canada, except in extremely unusual cases. Almost everyone who reports owning a handgun for "self-protection" would actually have had to state and show a different legitimate reason for acquiring it, if s/he owns it legally. Reasons do not have to be given for acquiring ordinary long arms; one simply needs a licence.)
Reasons for owning handguns specifically (in %):
Target shooting - 41
Collecting - 32
Employment - 15
Self-protection* - 5
Hunting - 5
Reasons for handgun ownership are not uniform across the country. Target shooting is the primary reason for owning a handgun among half of all such households in British Columbia, Alberta and the Atlantic provinces. In Manitoba-Saskatchewan and Ontario, handgun-owning households are roughly divided between target shooting and collecting, with an even split between these two reasons in Yukon/NWT. Reasons for owning a handgun are divided further still among Quebec households with handguns: one-quarter own this firearm mainly for target shooting, one in five (20%) for collecting, and three in ten (30%) for employment purposes (considerably higher than households elsewhere in Canada); households from this province are also the most likely to own handguns for the respondent-volunteered reason of self-protection (14%).
While the survey apparently did not break down number of handguns owned by reason for ownership (target shooting vs. collecting), it's fairly evident that there are large numbers of handguns in the hands of "collectors", and I'm not seeing any reason to think there are more in the hands of target shooters than in the hands of collectors -- and specifically, that there are more handguns per capita in the former case than in the latter.
But perhaps you have information to show otherwise and support the assertion that there are more
handguns in the hands of target shooters than in the hands of collectors, which seems to be what you wanted to say.
Your misinformed state is not unexpected, and not uncommon among us Canadians. A lot of us think that it's "illegal" to own a handgun, or that handguns are "banned". Few people have any idea how many of them are kicking around the cities they live in.
So you've had non-fun saying nothing meaningful again. Too bad.
I find the idea of a massive crime spree based on robbing gun collectors to be ridiculous and a cheap political stuntSince just about everything a Liberal does is a cheap political stunt, you won't actually get any argument from me in that respect.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20060107/GUNS07/TPNational/TorontoToronto police data recently obtained by Prof. Cukier suggested that roughly half the handguns seized and identified as "potential crime weapons" in 2004 had been smuggled across the border.
The rest had been stolen from legitimate owners and gun shops, which between them account for up to 3,000 weapons reported stolen each year. In a six-week period last year, at least 84 firearms were stolen from Toronto-area homes, Prof. Cukier found. More than half were handguns, and at least one of them was used in a Toronto slaying.
http://www.lufa.ca/news/news_item.asp?NewsID=5107(reproduction of National Post article; I cite both primary and secondary source only for these verifiable facts)
Police have also speculated a theft in June of 46 handguns, along with three rifles and ammunition, from a collector in Port Hope, 100 kilometres east of the city, has contributed to the recent increase in shootings.
Know many target shooters with 46 handguns?
http://www.cbc.ca/toronto/story/guns20051228.html"We know, for example, that in Toronto two years ago there was a theft of a number of guns from a legal owner in Malvern," said Miller, by telephone from his family vacation in Spain. "Twelve of which were recovered later by police at crime scenes."
Add those two to Hargreaves' little loss, and we have three quite large hauls from only three "collectors".
http://www.dose.ca/toronto/news/story.html?s_id=OuIk%2Bkna/Uio9J9nfnZ9DyEpcPv0gzubaXV7Phy0FgfVYEGMcqnRZg==Martin pledged to tighten border security, but said "the largest single source" of handguns is theft from collectors.
I don't actually swallow everything that spills from Martin's lips, but I'm not sure why he'd make that up.
I would indeed like to know the breakdown, in thefts like these, among sports shooters, collectors, etc. If you know it, or know anything else to suggest that thefts from target shooters are causing quite this level of problem, do enlighten us.