"Gore At Grover's??" - Norquist's Wednesday RW meeting.

[Pirate Smile]

January 04, 2006

Gore At Grover's??

It's true. Ex VP Al Gore stopped by Grover Norquist's Wednesday meeting today. Here's the skinny from a participant:

Indeed, the former Vice President did turn up at Grover's Wednesday Group meeting, apparently at his own request, to give an abbreviated version of his global warming presentation. As Grover's meetings are off-the-record, I won't relay any of Gore specific remarks (beyond repeating what I think he'd want Cornerites to hear--that global warming and the potential harm it may do to the planet should be recognized as a moral challenge by everyone, especially conservatives). But I think I can stay within the rules to make a few general observations about the experience.

First, Gore was funny, relaxed, and self-effacing, and he was received by the Group with the utmost politeness and courtesy, as it should be. John Miller is right to praise the guy for seeking to meet with a group of people not one of whom likely voted for him. His Powerpoint presentation on global warming was superbly done--the best I have ever seen either on this or any topic. (He has some dazzling graphics, and uses Powerpoint as it ought to be used.)

-snip-
Above all, Gore the practical politician may have come to realize something the environmental movement is resolutely clueless about: there can be no serious progress on any environmental issues without the participation of conservatives, for the obvious reason that the conservative movement is a potent force that is not going away any time soon. And with most other foreign conservative parties having joined the green/global warming bandwagon to some extent, this leaves the American conservative movement as the most significant remaining holdout. Most environmentalists want to demonize conservatives; Gore says he wants to talk to us. Good for him.

One final observation: I got the impression, simply from body language and maybe even a facial tic, that Gore doesn't much like Hillary Clinton.

http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2006/01/gore_at_grovers.html

[NYCGirl]

1. I'm pleased to hear that

President Gore ;-) was well received in the snake pit — even the GOP has sometimes to recognize the real problems that plague this world.

I love Al Gore!

[Pirate Smile]

2. That was pretty ballsy to invite himself to their weekly top-secret

meeting. I love it!

I had just been thinking that we haven't heard anything about Al for quite a while.

Do you know much about the documentary coming out in 2006 about his global warming presentations?

[NYCGirl]

5. He's a gem.

Haven't heard anything about the documentary or release.

[The Backlash Cometh]

19. He's getting that Jimmy Carter aura about him.

[NYCGirl]

21. Al Gore has the potential to be much greater than Carter, IMO. NT

[The Backlash Cometh]

22. If this country lets him.

Anybody who can do any good for this country gets pummeled before they get a chance at the presidency.

[Dulcinea]

41. "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer."

Look out world, here comes Al Gore! Our 44th president??

[NCarolinawoman]

3. Good for Gore.

I'd admire people who so believe in their cause that they are not afraid to take it to the other side.....and this does sometimes entail having to be polite.

[Mabus]

4. What a brave and principled man

He did indeed enter a snake pit. Not only that but asked to go to that snake pit. He put aside political partisanship because he knows they need to hear what he has to say about global warming. We're going to continue having tragedies because we are knocking the environment more and more out of kilter.

Way to go Al! Thank for you for having the cajones to speak at a group that has tried to ruin you professionally, politically and personally.

:applause:

[Uncle Joe]

6. I am happy to see Al taking his message in to the snake pit,

even Neanderthals learned how to make fire and bury their dead,
however you can tell a neocon wrote this column with the cheap dig at Hillary aimed primarily at dividing the Democratic Party.

Kicked and Nominated :kick:

[Pirate Smile]

7. The writer had to be a RW'er to be a regular at the Grover

Wednesday meetings.

I'm actually surprised what he writes isn't nastier, although one of the paragraphs I didn't include has some of your RW sniping.

[EVDebs]

24. Gore should have read this Bible verse to them...

Cast not your pearls before swine, I think the Bible says. But then again, they don't believe they are their brother's keepers in any way/shape/form anyhow.

Their only purpose is to make themselves rich men, and we all know how hard it is for rich men to get into heaven.

[AtomicKitten]

8. Love Al Gore

Please run in 2008, please, please, please.

[Turn CO Blue]

26. Amen to that, amen to that. Run, Al, Run. n/t

[Doctor_J]

9. Nader goes to that meeting

Of course, he, along with Grover (:rofl) and friends, is responsbile for the Oaf of Office.

[Pirate Smile]

11. Where did you read that?

[november3rd]

10. Hillary Clinton.

Does anybody like her very much, except Joe Lieberman and the GOP?

[NativeTexan]

12. I like HER, but Lieberman....

....needs to change parties.

[Cha]

13. Reading this just makes

me tear up when I think about how we lost Gore as our acting Prez. I know this is the way it had to be but I still cry for my country.

Gore's got guts..can you imagine chimpy mccokespoon going before a hostile crowd that not only didn't vote for him but wouldn't lick his cowboy(ha!) boots?

[Blue_Tires]

14. sadly, Gore was tossing pearls before swine

emphasis on 'swine'

Yeah, they shook hands and were cordial, and maybe they even paid a little lip service to the issue, but the moment Gore walked out the door, I'm willing to bet they went right back to snickering and the "Sore Loserman" and "Hitlery" jokes....

the biggest problem I have is with this paragraph:

-snip-
Above all, Gore the practical politician may have come to realize something the environmental movement is resolutely clueless about: there can be no serious progress on any environmental issues without the participation of conservatives, for the obvious reason that the conservative movement is a potent force that is not going away any time soon. And with most other foreign conservative parties having joined the green/global warming bandwagon to some extent, this leaves the American conservative movement as the most significant remaining holdout. Most environmentalists want to demonize conservatives; Gore says he wants to talk to us. Good for him.
-snip-

FUCK.THAT.SHIT----The environmental movement will go on with or without the 'participation of conservatives'...I don't remember anyone asking what I thought when Grover and his allies morphed their fascist world in front of our eyes...And please understand: When environmentalists demonize conservatives, it's only because they have fought, bit, and scratched against every meaningful piece of environmental legislation for 40+ years, all in the name of letting businesses make their profits--And if that wasn't enough, Bush (with the encouragement of Grover, of course) has ACTIVELY gutted, erased, or reversed HUNDREDS of formerly useful EPA regulations...

I don't get it--Certainly this blogger knew what Grover's stance on the environment was up until the exact moment Gore rang the doorbell...Of course, knowing Grover, he probably has a sudden interest in climate change because he found a way to profit from it...

And one final point...Why did it take someone like Al Gore showing up to get the counterparts on the right thinking about the environment? It's not like he's the only person in the world that knows about it--The information has been out there and verified for YEARS...I did a paper on the Greenhouse Effect in middle school 16 years ago, and there was plenty of info on the subject back then....

[Uncle Joe]

20. I believe the answer to your question

"And one final point...Why did it take someone like Al Gore showing up to get the counterparts on the right thinking about the environment? It's not like he's the only person in the world that knows about it--The information has been out there and verified for YEARS...I did a paper on the Greenhouse Effect in middle school 16 years ago, and there was plenty of info on the subject back then...."

is because Al Gore is the preeminent political leader on the environment and has been trashed for his position more than anyone for being correct, remember when Bush's daddy called him Ozone Man. They cannot hide the truth regarding the environment and the effects of global warming much longer, events such as Katrina and the growing internet are exposing the truth and waking the American People up.

[PATRICK]

23. Honest question

would be WHAT they do believe about climate change so long as the polluting industries that fund most of the con power guys don't get dunned for the cost or even blamed AND find some way to profit from it.

It seems they DO believe the world will be severely stressed to which OUR response seems to be forming under Bushco to be- potent military posture, enjoying the predations of our rivals, being prepared to move to 'higher ground". Judging from the hellishly stingy response to Katrina, etc, etc. it seems like(alert: nasty analogy approaching)lobbying Hitler to help the poor Jewish population of Europe.

Whatever their blockheaded dishonesty to blocking all endeavors to deal with the crisis "globally", I think their probably planning and response would be scarier still. In fact, green industries and those putting initial investment into cleaning things up so as to make a profit in the process, have been undercut either to speed up the happy day of global crisis or allow unrepentant polluting Bush supporters to soar ahead of them of them competitively. Probably both.

Bad attitude on my part, but I would like to be pleasantly surprised by some details of this conference that would show something undisputably positive coming from their side. What happens when you not only don't preach to the choir, but to a fanatically rival faith?

We have cannibals in the lifeboats. If not now, then.

[Uncle Joe]

34. Regarding your analogy,

"Judging from the hellishly stingy response to Katrina, etc, etc. it seems like(alert: nasty analogy approaching)lobbying Hitler to help the poor Jewish population of Europe."


My analogy is more like lobbying Hitler and the Nazis to save them from them selves. What if someone could have spoken to Hitler and the Nazis in 1929 or 1930 and shown them the future as to what would happen to them if they pursued their quest of world domination and disregard for humanity? It might not have made a difference, but I wish someone would have tried. It might not have changed Hitler's mind, but a few Nazis may have been peeled off.

[PATRICK]

36. The analogy: on the way down

Looking at how they thought during the fall is NOT a hopeful sign. Denial, blame, bitter respect for their victorious rivals, fear, evasion and a cunning belief they would be congratulated by the cynical leaders and history itself for the Final Solution, which nonetheless they ran taking personal credit from like very able rats. Speer wrote the longest most sincere "rehabilitation" but nonetheless pretty much confirmed that the charm and the flattery of power alone would probably make him do it all over again- and that looking for affirmation of his self worth dampened the success of his spiritual sincerity. Oh, and the conscientious technocrat took advice not to find out too much about the camps.

It is this type of people, now corrupted with power and in the process of having reality dance to their bullets, not the exact historical equivalence that causes me to make the analogy. Some of the destroyers it appears to me are much more rabid and thoughtless than Speer, to say the least.

[Uncle Joe]

37. One thing you can say about Al Gore,

he is not giving any excuse for a "conscientious technocrat" not to find out too much about global warming.

I also agree that many if not all of Grover's followers are rabid, and thoughtless regarding the rest of humanity, however their own self survival should give them pause to think, I hope. I could be wrong but I believe that's what Al Gore thinks.

[Lisa]

38. and he's also giving plenty of reasons why a capitalist would want ...

... things like emission control standards, and carbon-trading. Far from "destroying the economy", as Bush said about Kyoto, there is a lot of evidence (for example, the business/economics studies done by the Pew Center) which suggest that there is considerable profit to be made, from conserving energy and selling green technology to other countries.

The first sector of the economy to start raising the alarm about global warming impacts were the banks and insurance companies, more than a decade ago. And I would be inclined to listen to them. I teach a class on climate change, and I showed the students some predictions made in the late 1960s by various CEOs about the economy in 2000. The energy and transportation companies were almost all wrong (and some of them are now defunct). The financial sector was the most accurate! So if they're worried about global warming, people who are self-professed capitalists and free-market types should pay attention, since after all, aren't they always going on about how things should be "results-based" and not theoretical?

[PATRICK]

43. And most rational businessmen-

hopefully that means the majority- would and in fact have, slowly, been won over to real action so long as they are not left out in the cold as altrusistic saps. However we are talking about people very much unlike rational people who as long as they have a bunker, denial and fear of change can only be tracked down and forced into a corner. That is a different breed. I wonder sometimes if some of the Dem leadership acknowledge their existence, their possiblity, in their rush to the capitalist high road.

I am reminded of the Kurdish businessman who backed Saddam because while sympathized with the rebellious Kurds they were hopeless losers and doomed. I suspect he made the later transition quite easily in spite of his practicality.

[yellowdogmi]

15. He still

acts more Presidential then shrub ever could.
:mad:

[rosesaylavee]

39. That's not fair to Al... my dog is more presidential

than shrub - she talks more clearly too! :)

[Blue_Tires]

16. lest we forget this flowery, unifying quote from our man Jack:

"It is not our job to seek peaceful coexistence with the left. Our job is to remove them from power permanently." - Jack Abramoff

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x48491#50453

[Pirate Smile]

17. The Hotline Blog put up another blurb on Gore at Grover's.

Gore Meets The Conservatives.

We asked Grover Norquist, an architect of the conservative revolution, why he invited former Vice President Al Gore (D) to present his thoughts on climate change to Norquist's fabled Wednesday meeting of conservative activists.

After all -- most of his regular attendees are the front lines of opposition to everthing the former vice president stands for. The meeting is populated by Competitive Enterprise Institute types who are skeptical of climate change; by folks who helped George W. Bush's recount team in Florida; by Bush White House aides and Republican congressional staffers.

Actually, says Norquist, it's the other way around.
Gore's staff contacted Norquist.

It seems that Gore's interest was piqued by a conversation he had with billionaire George Soros, who addressed the Wednesday meeting in 2005. Soros gave the experience rave reviews. The questions, while probing, were respectful. Political enemies had a rare moment of comity.

Gore is fond of his global warming demonstration and is positively Gingrichite in his love of presentation software. And he relished the opportunity.
(We weren't able to confirm whether Gore, a board member of Apple, used Apple software or used Microsoft Powerpoint.)

http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2006/01/gore_meets_the.html

[ComerPerro]

18. Meanwhile, Bush's presentations are crudely drawn with crayon

on construction paper

[rosesaylavee]

40. He's doing crayons now? Wow, his dad used a stick in

the sand and could only draw lines.

[mom cat]

25. President Gore is doing more to save the planet than the current WH

resident.

[RandomKoolzip]

27. "Most Jews want to demonize Nazis....."

Most environmentalists want to demonize conservatives; Gore says he wants to talk to us. Good for him.

Jeez, do ya think it's because conservatives and their oil industry/chemical industry lobbyist buttbuddies have done more to fight against environmental regulations and any kind of pro-environment legislation for the last twenty years or so? And have done evetrything they could to paint environmentalists as "whackos," "tree-huggers," "Spotted-Owl lovers," etc. instead of the black-faced canaries in the coalmine we actually are? Have used all their money, their PR companies, and their influence, to destroy any kind of serious environmental movement at the legislative level any chance they've gotten, because it might (boo hoo!) eat into their profits?

I swear, conservatives ALWAYS see themselves as the underdog, even when they own all three branches of government and the media. Let's not forget who holds the power, the money, and the influence here.

[rabid_nerd]

28. Al Gore tries to talk Billy into playing nicely with the other children

Al Gore tries to talk Billy into playing nicely with the other children

As political junkies know, Grover Norquist -- a major player in the Republican establishment -- holds weekly breakfast meetings, attended by everybody-who's-anybody on the right. This is where much of the famed "message coordination" happens. It would take a brave Democrat to venture into that lion's den.

I guess Al Gore is brave (stupid? foolhardy? running for president?)...

http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2006/1/4/13508/58502

http://corner.nationalreview.com/

[rabid_nerd]

29. Ooops...

Noticed similar thread..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2348956

Already alerted thread for self deletion

[Hubert Flottz]

30. Maybe our real president went there to bug the place!

Who could listen in on those Idiots though?

[mrgorth]

31. Big difference between their right and our right

Our right wants the earth to whither. They think it's their God given right.

[Cults4Bush]

32. Europes right is still to the left of ours as well.

A lot of dems would be considered on the right in Europe, and small wonder considering how far the middle has moved here in the states. It can't be denied that the middle is now squarely where moderate Conservatives once sat (looking at it linear wise).

Which is why I suspect Gore doesnt dig on Hil too much.

[Mabus]

35. The "God-given right" line is used to keep the base in line

The corporate RW has a slightly different view.

[ourbluenation]

33. Good! and RFK Jr. getting thru to Fox News's President Roger Aisles

to run that global warming special on Fox. Maybe reality is starting to set in with these knobs. I agree...without conservatives joining in it's an uphill battle.

[rfkrfk]

42. It would be helpful, if Gore was more upfront about cost,

and suggestions about enforcement.

Nobody wants to sign a blank check.
If there were limits on cost increases, I think that would
be a helpful selling point.


also, since the US is not a party to Kyoto,
the limits should be determined in the US,
allowing the limits to be 'fine tuned'.