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Bull Moose defends Bush on domestic spying...blasts ACLU Nixon/Bush ad.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 05:26 PM
Original message
Bull Moose defends Bush on domestic spying...blasts ACLU Nixon/Bush ad.
The DLC's Bull Moose has been very grumpy this holiday season. He is especially grumpy toward the "lefties who are availing themselves to bash Bush."

But here are a few of own words in today's "musings."

http://www.bullmooseblog.com/2005/12/year-end-musings.html

There is a legitimate and important debate underway on the authority for the President's eavesdropping program. There are strong arguments that the President should have sought authorization from the FISA Court for the surveillance. However, in the Moose's view, it is out-of-bounds to suggest that the President was attempting a tyrannical seizure of power. Contrary to the not too subtle suggestion in the fevered ACLU ad in today's New York Times, this is not Watergate. Aging baby-boomers don't need to get their fraying Impeach Nixon shirts out of the closet just yet. There is no evidence, for instance, that President exploited the program to spy on domestic opponents or to assist in his re-election. If he did, it would be an entirely different matter.

Both the Constitution's clause granting war powers to the President and the Congress' authorization of the use of force against Al Qaeda appear to be sufficient to justify the program. The detection of phone calls between terrorist suspects and contacts in America constitute legitimate war activities in this new type of conflict. Establishing probable cause and justification might have been impracticable with the need to immediately mine hundreds of calls and electronic communications. And there are certainly precedents for warrantless searches.


While condemning those not naming Rockefeller and Pelosi and other who were told about the eavesdropping, he compliments Feingold with one side of mouth while saying he is wrong with the other side of his mouth. No, Bull Moose, Bush was wrong, and our Democrats would have been crucified if they came out about this in such a fearful time in our country...when Bush was still equated with God more often than now.

Now that the program has been revealed, it is lame for those briefed Members to suggest that this is a Constitutional and legal travesty. Even though this is a secret program, they might have gone public because the rule of law was in jeopardy.

Similarly, the Senate overwhelmingly approved the Patriot Act in the aftermath of 9/11. Now that memories have faded, almost all Democratic Senators, who once supported the legislation, stopped a modified version of the bill which accommodated many civil libertarian concerns.

It appears that we have an entirely new category of politicians -the "hindsight heroes". They express disgust at those same policies that they either supported or did not strenuously object to until after they become unpopular with the Democratic base. That is also true of many who once supported the war, but have now discovered religion. And entering their ranks are those esteemed current and former Members who didn't exactly "set their hair on fire" when they learned about the eavesdropping are suggesting that we have arrived at a constitutional crisis. As others have pointed out, so far none of the objectors have actually called for a termination of the program.

At least Russ Feingold opposed the war and the Patriot Act from the beginning. He is as consistent as he is courageous (while wrong-headed). It was also particularly gutsy of him to be the only '08 Democratic aspirant to have voted for John Roberts. If the left has a standard-bearer, Feingold is an admirable advocate in contrast to some of his "sunshine" colleagues.


And I find his continued contempt of the well-educated very telling indeed. Maybe if fewer were well-educated, there would be fewer to question the Bull Moose.

I find these statements just outrageous and over the line.

If lefties and some libertarians want to oppose the eavesdropping because they are privacy absolutists, fine. But don't suggest that the President has defiled the Constitution and broken the law. Sometimes judgments are right or wrong and not illegal or unconstitutional. The Moose acknowledges that he is deferential to Presidential powers during wartime. And this President has far from stretched the boundaries of precedents established by past Commanders-in-Chief.

We have two great parties in America. One is in thrall to big money. The other is under the control of left wing "new politics," upper middle class, and highly educated activists.


Yeh, Bull Moose, meet me, a highly educated activist. Indeed I am one of those. I consider your statement a call to battle. You just start after well-educated activists, Dear Bull, and see where it gets you.

Indeed, Sir.



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firefox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
1. A trial would settle this and the war criminal charges.
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AntiCoup2K4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
2. Geez, Marshall Witless is on a roll this week, ain't he.....
Edited on Thu Dec-29-05 05:39 PM by AntiCoup2K4
....Rolling straight downhill to the neocon sewer that is.
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tsuki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
3. Wartime. War is an armed conflict between nations, or at least
it was when I was in school fourty years ago. What we are in is a violent occupation. Do you get special powers for a violent occupation?

And speaking of occupations...the DLC has occupied the Democratic Party long enough. They need to go back to where they belong, the RNC. Where ever there is a circular firing squad, you find DLCers holding the rifles.

War, Occupation, Imperialist Ambitions, whatever, yes he did violate his Oath of Office, and yes, that is a High Crime.
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gulfcoastliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
4. What a dimwit!
He should do everyone a favor and listen to O'Leilly: just shut up!
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w13rd0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
5. F*ck Bull Moose...
Edited on Thu Dec-29-05 05:41 PM by w13rd0
...I've consistently been against this bullshit. Screw him, and screw the DLC. Just further proof the leadership of the present DLC, those sons-a-bitches, are just as treasonous and vile as the GOP. It'll be "alright" for them to spy on me without warrant and without oversight when I can spy on THEM in the same manner. Screw him.

ON EDIT: Oh, and just like GOP "blogs", his doesn't permit comments. Funny, same tactics, same tired line of treasonous bullshit, same paymasters.
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Dudley_DUright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. This load of bull moose crap has earned Marshall the coveted
wanker of the day award from Atrios. Congratulations Mr. Wittmann. :sarcasm:

http://atrios.blogspot.com/2005_12_25_atrios_archive.html#113588269879068137
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Good for Atrios.
I am glad to see this getting attention. It is almost "in your face" to us.
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eve_was_framed Donating Member (288 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #5
14. him and his kind are what's dragging the democratic party down :(
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Thorandmjolnir Donating Member (390 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
6. What an idiot!
I have never read him before, but let me say this again, what an idiot!

First, we don't know who Bush spied upon. That's the whole purpose of the FISA court. To make sure that only the bad guys are being spied upon.

We have only Bush's word for this, and we all know how trustworthy he is.

Second, there are no serious legal arguments to say that this was legal. Not one. Some scholars have said it might be constitutional (Kerr), but, when Congress adopts an act making it illegal, it is illegal! End of story (FISA said it was the only law governing this area).

Lastly, if Bush thought the law was a constrain on his abilities to protect the country, the solution is not to break the law, but to go to Congress to have the law changed. ONLY CONGRESS CAN ENACT LAWS IN THE UNITED STATES!

(Rant over)
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lyonn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #6
28. Fox guarding the hen house theory in progress
Reminds me of what I remember of J. Edgar Hoover. He had quite a file on lots of people that were not accused of spying for the soviets, breaking federal laws, or trying to overthrow the govt. So the files were either kept for perverse reasons or CYA. We need checks and balances, that is what FISA is for.
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gulfcoastliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 10:54 PM
Response to Original message
9. Kick..
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Vickers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 10:57 PM
Response to Original message
10. Fuck him and the moose he popped out of.
:eyes:
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 11:19 PM
Response to Original message
11. knee-capping the Democratic Party before it can even stand up
the very suggestion that this is necessary to fight "terrorism" is so Orwellian
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Kneecapping the activists in the party to keep us in our places.
That is what they are doing so effectively.
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eve_was_framed Donating Member (288 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. I say,
keep the activists and put him in his place...keep your plunger handy in case he plugs up the crapper in the process!!!
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 11:53 PM
Response to Original message
13. God I hate that man....
if he's not careful, he's going to rank right up there with BushCo. in my book.

And that is saying a lot!

Bull Moose = Bull Shit
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eve_was_framed Donating Member (288 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. LOL! thanks and I love your little equation :)
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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 12:19 AM
Response to Original message
17. This Bull Shiter Needs a Full Public Flogging ......
then be made to lick every last drop of the bull shite from the pages of his bull shite web site, then quarter and dis-member him from the party.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 12:52 AM
Response to Original message
18. then maybe we ought to investigate to SEE if he spied on opponents
instead of jsut shrugging shoulders and saying, we have no smoking gun, so he must not have done it. we have no smoking gun he stole the election,..... though we have plenty of evidence that points that he did. again, maybe the next step is to see IF he did steal elections. or spy on challengers

didnt read the rest of his mess. saw errorimmediately in what he was saying
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TheBaldyMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 01:02 AM
Response to Original message
19. Sounds like he wants those 'powers' for the next Dem president
try and find one instance in history when a leader didn't keep the undemocratic and heavy-handed instruments of power brought in by the previous administration.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 01:03 AM
Response to Original message
20. Just ask John Dean -- It's "Worse Than Watergate" n/t
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gulfcoastliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
21. kick...
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High Plains Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
22. Why do these people call themselves Democrats?
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 06:39 PM
Response to Original message
23. I don't know who these people are. Who are these people?
???
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gulfcoastliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Marshall Whittmann is a mouthpiece of the DLC
The ndol website links directly to his crap blog, where you can read his BS rantings in full.
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Geek_Girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
25. I wish the Bull Moose Losers
would go back to their own party and work to make it better or start a new party. The Democrats are not the party of Teddy Roosevelt were the party of JFK, and FDR.
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HuskerDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 10:42 PM
Response to Original message
26. Whatever happened to the DU poster who changed the words
to SOD's 'Fuck the Middle East' to 'Fuck the DLC'? I wanted to copy the lyrics. Great stuff.
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AntiCoup2K4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Shit! How did I miss that one??
It's definitely worthy of a repeat though, whoever it was......
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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
29. Will Bullmoose make same bogus argument for NSA's massive data mining
of U.S. citizens? Is this why Bush's yes-man Alberto Gonzales has intitiated investigation of the whistleblower who leak to the New York Times rather than appoint a special prosecutor to investigate possible Bush directed NSA warrantless, illegal massive data mining of U. S. citizens with no connection to Al Qaeda?

When will this shoe drop--if ever? Or has the Justice Department succeeded in squelching any further information coming forth from NSA whistleblowers?
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