Questions for the PDA (and everyone else who wishes to participate)

[bushclipper]

Recently, Don1 asked a series of questions of DLC supporters. Many interpreted the post as yet another ant-DLC post. Indeed, I believed it to be, too. It is my opinion that if the DLC is to answer these questions, so should any other groups who claim to speak for Democrats.

Bear in mind the questions asked for a "plan." The wording of the original post to me sounded as if the writer wanted an official plan.
So I'm asking for that, too.

Official plans - details beyond what you "think" they'll do or beyond what one politician or group has said or voted on.

Official plans beyond, "PDA will Restore civil rights and economic rights."

Please provide links.

And if you quote a poll (60% of Democrats believe...), please give a link to that poll.

Here are the original questions. I and several others feel these deserve serious answers from -anyone- seeking the party's nomination or support from the party, as well as their supporters.

That would included PDA, DFA, The Green Party, etc.


Tell us your groups plans to:
(1) restore civil rights taken away by the Patriot Act;
(2) restore union power taken away by empowering global corporations through NAFTA;
(3) restore union power taken away by empowering global corporations through CAFTA;
(4) restore citizens' economic rights to lawsuits against medical insurance that legislation took away;
(5) restore citizens' economic rights by eliminating the law enacted by the Bankruptcy bill;
(6) get us out of Iraq so we can do nation building here;
(7) restore economic justice to children whose non-working mothers and fathers can only get AFDC for a limited time thanks to
Welfare "Reform";
(8) keep 84,000 Americans from dying every year due to a lack of health care;
(9) filibuster al least 1 of the crazies that Mr. Lunatic Dictator keeps nominating;
(10) restore objectivity to news media by revoking the TeleCommunications Act of 1996 so that smaller, independent news media
groups can have power, too;
(11) start voting more with the majority of Democrats by voting for the people's interests instead of corporations.

Thank you

[spaniard]

1. I'd be interested in that, too

Since we've been told the DLC will no longer have any relevance after 2004:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1607948

and that the progressives own the party (says MoveOn), I believe their official and detailed plans are bit more relevant now that the DLC has been vanquished and the progressive run things.

[bushclipper]

2. Since several of the key posters in the other thread have been active

this morning - I believe - I'm assuming progressive supporters are currently researching the PDA's and other progressive group's plans on these matters.

I appreciate the time it take to research such matters. I would suggest starting with each organization's website. I would think they would have detailed policy plans there.

And I'm also going to amend my original post to state that I'm not interested in debating with you the merits of these plans should they exist. After reading the other thread, it appears to me that that was the purpose - to bait others in and try to break down and denigrate which ever plans were presented.

No, I just want know if such detailed plans exist from the named progressive groups.

[Don1]

3. My answers are in the other thread

which already gives an option to everyone else (including PDA) to answer the questions.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2320683

[bushclipper]

4. perhaps you can point me to the exact post?

The post I see from you only gives YOUR plan and opinions and gives no links to PDA or any other progressive group.

I'll remind you what I asked for in my original post:

"Official plans - details beyond what you "think" they'll do or beyond what one politician or group has said or voted on.

Official plans beyond, "PDA will Restore civil rights and economic rights."

Please provide links.

And if you quote a poll (60% of Democrats believe...), please give a link to that poll. "

In the post I believe you are referring to, I see a link to another DU thread and a link about Clear Channel. If that is the post you refer to, where is the official plans of the progressive groups I mentioned?

[LWolf]

5. Why do you assume

that anyone who opposes the DLC is lined up with any other "group?" Are individual Democrats unable to oppose something without a group telling them what to do?:shrug:

I can't speak for any groups; I only speak for myself. Personally, I can say that my "plan" is to support candidates and/or reps who will do most of the things that you've mentioned. At least 1 - 10. And I have. It's possible that I prefer the levels of support and the ideas of some Democrats over those promoted by the DLC.

As for #11, I'm not sure that the majority of Democrats have been voting for people's interests, rather than for corporate interests, during GWB's tenure, at least. There has been scanty opposition, at best, until recently.

[bushclipper]

6. Where do you gather that I assume that?

It is my opinion that if the DLC is called upon to answer these questions, other official groups who claim to speak for Democrats might want to weigh in as well. Of course, you don't HAVE to answer.

[LWolf]

8. I gather that because your question was

directed towards specific groups, of course. :eyes:

[bushclipper]

12. I understand your confusion.

I'll explain further.

The other two threads asked/demanded answers from the DLC and their supporters.

I'm merely asking for the the same from PDA and other progressive groups besided PDA. If you don't fit that description, the post would be a little irrelevant to you.

[spaniard]

7. Interesting that the folks from the other thread that inspired this one

The following being the thread that called out the DLC:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2320683&mesg_id=2320683

Interesting that the folks from the other thread that inspired this one haven't given any meaningful responses to this one yet.

[goodhue]

9. PDA: A Progressive Plan to Change America

http://pdamerica.org/policy/plan.php

[radio4progressives]

10. Did you Just Happen to Miss the PDA Thread I posted the other day?

I Posted a PDA Thread which outlined Vision, Strategy, Plan just a few days ago. Just a few days ago... Did you happen to miss that?

Here is the link and the opening post:

Progressive Democrats For America (PDA) Vision, Strategy, Plan

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=2317058

http://pdamerica.org/policy/vision.php


Vision

We are committed in word and action, both personally and politically, to justice and democracy at all levels, and to the preservation and restoration of natural ecosystems in America and worldwide.

We are specifically committed to the realization of new models for achieving local, national and global security that redirect the current wasteful and obscene levels of military spending toward the uncompromising and effective funding of: health and education programs; an end to discrimination; the provision of full and meaningful employment; and an end to poverty for all people.

We believe with Robert F. Kennedy, that the Gross National Product is a false measure of progress and must be replaced by the quality of life as a standard for American achievement

Strategy

To achieve these goals, we dedicate ourselves to work within the general framework of the Democratic Party and with sister organizations to create a new, democratic, grassroots-based, nationally federated organization.

Through this organization we shall endeavor, over a period of years, to build an unstoppable coalition of the hundreds of millions of Americans who would benefit from a taking back of our democracy, our economy, and our institutions from the "moneyed interests" warned of by Jefferson and the "military-industrial complex" described by Eisenhower: those who would rob from Americans our precious rights of informed self-governance.

Mindful of the continuing important differences between Republican and Democratic political values, yet fully aware of how much better Democratic candidates and elected officials must be to save our people and our planet from destruction, we dedicate ourselves to beginning the long, patriotic, nonviolent, and ultimately unstoppable process of transforming the Democratic Party.

Toward this end, we will educate ourselves, our neighbors, and our fellow Americans to the demonstrable validity of the progressive worldview, and mobilize our fellow Americans precinct by precinct, congressional district by congressional district, state by state, first to take back the Democratic Party and then our great country from the global corporate interests that currently dominate our lives.

Plan

We will accomplish these goals through the dedicated and deliberate process of working with thousands of individual and organizational allies to identify, within each local precinct or political district, supporters of civil and labor rights, real environmental protection, women's rights, the rights of the poor, consumer rights, and the right to live life in peace, free from racism, discrimination and institutional domination.

We will support grassroots chapters with local databases, publicity, educational materials, regional organizers, trainings, and funding.

We will strategically target those many districts where progressives are a strong majority to ensure that our demands are fully voiced by those we elect.

We will encourage all activists to work diligently to: fully educate themselves and their neighbors; to engage in local political organizing both in progressive caucuses within the Democratic Party and outside of the Party, and, perhaps most importantly; to create real and lasting connections to those of different political views and the apolitical or cynical by organizing meaningful, tangible "good works" in their communities - from stream cleanups, to mentor and after school programs, to local community development activities that create jobs.

Our spheres of concern, our volunteers, our staff, and our leadership will reflect a rainbow, as diverse and beautiful as America herself, at whose feet our pot of gold will be found: a renewed nation, respectful of the rule of law at home and abroad, fully integrated into and respectful of the world of nations and peoples, and re-grounded on the universal values of human dignity, justice, and environmental sanity.


---->%<Snip!

read full text: http://pdamerica.org/policy/vision.php

[bushclipper]

11. thank you. That all sounds good. But where are the specific plans?

In the other thread(s) it was almost demanded that DLC supporters give exact plans.

So where are PDA's exact plans to handle the questions raised?

[radio4progressives]

13. Have you actually linked to the site yet? or do you just want someone

to do the work for you, cut and paste every position here?

i mean, if you've taken a little time to go over to the site, and read the voluminous amounts of material there, authored by people like William Rivers Pitt, Tom Hayden, Tim Carpenter and many others - which should give you some answers. it shouldn't take too much reading however, to come to a reasonable conclusion that the list of questions posed here are not only largely addressed, but you should be able to reasonably conclude that these issues are front and center of concerns that pda is working hard on, vis a vis working with Congress members who are associated with PDA, and or in other cases lobbying congress members hard, while at the same time informing citizens on these issues and mobilizing into action.

local chapters are dealing at the moment with recruiting progressive candidates for local state and national representation...

there's a lot of work to be done... pda is young in terms of establishing itself as an national organization.

go to the website, look at who is involved with pda actions in washington dc, read through materials - and then if there are questions put them forward at the site, or your own local chapter - and then copy us here...

hope this helps?

[bushclipper]

14. I'd like the same favors afforded the OPs in the other threads

namely, specific plans listed in response to each specific question.

If memory serves, avoiding answering was frowned upon by them and they suggested that perhaps the DLC supporters could not answer them. I'm not suggesting that PDA members or members of other progressive groups can't answer them, but I'm starting to wonder if the right person just hasn't noticed this thread yet.

[radio4progressives]

16. See number # 15

:hi:

[radio4progressives]

15. PDA is young - specific policy positions originate from the grassroots up

there is a national advisory board - but policy positions are created through a largely consensus process, vis a vis local chapter meetings, to regional and national conferences.

pda formed in 2004, and largely the main focus has been the war in iraq - because we see how most of our domestic policies are largely connected to the policy that took us to war in iraq, from the the gross abuse of our civil liberties, abuse of power of executive authority (secrecy laws, courts etc) to the depletion of our treasury and everything in between.

so an inordinate amount of time and energy has indeed been focused on the war in iraq and building the case for impeachment, prosecution and conviction of Bush and Cheney.

David Swanson, a key figure involved with After Downing Street Memo is on the advisory panel, along with Congress member John Conyers and several others.

Tomorrow, John Conyers will be releasing a huge record of abuse of power by the Bush Administration. This work has been going on for several months.

John Conyers with the urging of and the direct assistance of key PDA members tried to hold hearings on the Patriot Act last summer, but since the House is Republican controlled, and the Judiciary committee (which John Conyers is a ranking member of) is headed by a fascists by the name of Sensenbrenner, the one hearing he allowed to take place, he ended abruptly at the fierce protest of several members of the committee - indeed they went forward, even after the lights and the microphones where shut off - (it was broadcast on C-Span)and discussed widely here on the DU at the time. It was quite a scene.

In any event, the nuts and bolts in policy positions on many key issues of concern have not yet been fully fleshed out, (yes the devils in the detail) that will take time because these develop through a grassroots - (bottom up) process which is what PDA is all about... ;)

as opposed to the top down, "elite to the ignorant masses" paradigm.

go here for some background:

http://pdamerica.org/about/faq.php

Hope this helps a bit more...

[bushclipper]

18. so PDA really has no policy plans for those questions?

Yes or no?

Surely the Green Party does. They've been in existence much longer.

[radio4progressives]

19. Well, I'm not a member of the Green party - i've read materials

a long time ago, and you'll have to go their website to see their current policy positions... I think I recall David Cobb speaking to these matters, and i would suspect that Greens might have drafted positions on these questions.. but can't say for sure.

[bushclipper]

20. but PDA has not? How about DFA?

[radio4progressives]

23. I would say, they're being worked on ..

how far along in the process is another question, i can't honestly answer, if i understand the question precisely..

[bushclipper]

24. just curious. Why would you say that?

Have they given any indication of such?

[radio4progressives]

26. well, my local chapter is working on policy positions as input to

the national draftings.. these are working committees, and in each local chapter will be doing the same, and it's a whole process that is very time and labor intensive but the goal is develop policy positions for national buy in.

[bushclipper]

28. So currently the DFA has no official plan on those issues. Correct?

At least as far as you know?

[radio4progressives]

30. I'm not a dfa member... I've been to a couple of local meetings, but

it wasn't satisfying to me, in terms of issues that they concerned themselves with.. so then i stumbled across pda which i identify more closely with and haven't been to another meeting.

However, the local dfa chapter did hold a summit dealing with healthcare, environment and other socio-economic issues that are largely in unanimity with pda's thinking... but as far as offical policy positions and plans ..
i can't personally speak to.

[bushclipper]

32. Thank you. That was very informative

[radio4progressives]

21. Presumably you mean detailed policy positions papers? n/t

[bushclipper]

22. not necessarily "papers"

Pardon the confusion. Does PDA have official policy positions/plans on each of the questions posed? On some of them?

[radio4progressives]

25. Now, I'm really confused! (sorry)

don't mean to be so dense.

i always understand offical "policy positions" to soemthing that is actually in what some may call "white papers" or drafts of "white papers" or some times "blue papers" ... which is a final product approved by majority of members through whatever means..(concensus or super majority)

so, that's what i'm thinking you're meaning.

but if what you are asking, what is (generally) philosophy on each of these positions, that's a much easier answer to respond to, but i fail to understand why it is hard for you to gleen for yourself from the website itself...

[bushclipper]

27. well, then, yes

Official papers. Or tangible plans.

It isn't difficult to see that nothing like that exists on their website, but I thought actual members or supporters would have some inside information.

But I am confused because, in reference to the other threads where this information was demanded of DLC supporters, it seems they were either genuinly looking for the DLC for leadership on the issues, were trying to distract from the fact that the organizations best suited to represent them on the matters had no official plans on those issues, or they might believe think PDA/DFA/Greens do.

[radio4progressives]

29. DLC has been around for over twenty years, they are very well funded

and have had the financial luxury and leisure to meet and confer as frequently as needed and hire staff to do the labor pulling materials together etc etc etc.. hell, they have universities, lobbyists, and think tank pr people - come on please!

the differences illustrate a huge disparity and disadvantage , and hardly be said to be on a similar level playing field. Not even in the universe of socio-economic or political equanimity!

[bushclipper]

31. well, all that is true, But

When the DLC was founded, they had such policy papers ready to go. It's how they were taken seriously so quickly.

I have a book in my library called "Reinventing Democrats." Written by a Rhodes Scholar, I believe, but not a DLC member. Great reading. I recommend it to anyone who wants to know how the DLC really rose to influence.

But back to the issue at hand. I think you and I have established (and I thank you for the discussion thus far) that the DFA does not yet hold official policy plans in the areas under consideration. Further, we haven't established whether the Green party or DFA does, either.

So the major problem is DFA isn't funded as well so they have been slower to craft such position papers?

[radio4progressives]

34. This seems to me to be an obfuscation of sorts...

I don't believe you're really concerned about policy papers at all.

I think what you're really doing is trying to demonstrate how it is that rise of Neo Liberalism is a sound, and widely popular movement, and that the progressive populists movements pale in comparison. I think that's the case you're really trying to make, isn't it? In terms of prestige and therefore establishment credibility, the point would be obvious, except in the final analysis what is really at issue is about socio-economic, and political justice and equality vis a vis representative and participatory democracy.

Neo Liberalism seems to have become anachronism,if ever it was relevant to the cultivation of participatory democracy, because it's policies (when put into practice) have shown itself to be anathema to socio-economic equanimity especially as seen in foreign policies - which always (in the final analysis)impact directly to domestic economic policies.

One cannot honestly compare what is being demanded of the DLC in these discussions to the lack thereof, of detailed policy positions from nascent progressive organizations, parties or movements.

parity simply does not exist between the two.

[bushclipper]

36. so, in other words, PDA does not have plans covering the topics

Nor do, in your estimation, the Greens or DFA.

Yet, several progressives demanded to know the plans of the DLC.

I understand.

[radio4progressives]

17. see number #15

:hi:

[AntiFascist]

33. I disagree with your statement....

that the other DLC thread was necessarilly anti-DLC. The thread can be found here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2320683&mesg_id=2322002

Although I admit to being a "poser" in my post, since I have no direct affiliation to the DLC, I was sincere in stating that I may be warming up to Kerry, who would be a DLC candidate. I was also sincere in drafting responses that favored business in America. The only parts that may be considered anti-DLC were in fact anti-PNAC and against using offensive measures in order to spread democracy throughout the world, which seems to be part of the platform currently adopted by all DLCers.

[MH1]

35. I don't think Kerry would be a "DLC" candidate.

He's listed as a member but he's far more liberal than the "DLC" positions I'm aware of. Not sure why he is listed as a member, maybe just to stay on good terms with them to get cooperation on his bills. I heard Obama was listed as a "member" without even being asked, and asked them to remove his name. (I could be wrong, that's just something a saw on a blog somewhere.) And I bet if you look at all Obama's votes, he's less liberal than Kerry.