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The Judged Donating Member (613 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 02:21 AM
Original message
Registered Democrats: What has the DLC accomplished for you?
Edited on Thu Dec-15-05 02:24 AM by The Judged
Here is the Democratic Party's Agenda:

http://www.democrats.org/agenda.html

Here is the Democratic Leadership Council's website:

http://www.dlc.org

Here is the Democratic Leadership Council's Think Tank,Progressive Policy Institute’s (PPI is funded by the Third Way Foundation) website:

http://www.ppionline.org

Here is the Third Way Foundation's website:

http://www.third-way.com/products/national_security.htm

**************************************************
Questions about your experience with the DLC.

The DLC has been politically active within and
outside of the Democratic Party for over 20 years:
**************************************************

1). After 20 years of DLC influence on the Democratic Party, registered Democratic voters, and federal, state, and local politics, what accomplishments of or failures by the DLC are most noteworthy to you?

Please offer examples.

2). As a registered Democrat, are you better or worse off today than 20 years ago because of the DLC?

Please offer examples.

3). As a registered Democrat, do you believe that the DLC has delivered on the Democratic Party's Agenda over the past 20 years?

Please offer examples.

*********************************************
Looking toward the future:

Questions about your expectations of the DLC:
*********************************************

4). As a registered Democrat, do you have faith that DLC candidates will be help the Democratic Party reclaim the Presidency, control of the Congress, and control in the Supreme Court?

Please explain your reasoning.

5). As a registered Democrat, do you have faith that the DLC will accomplish the political goals of the Democratic Party's Agenda?

Please explain your reasoning.

Thank you for taking the time to respond.

***************************************

*edited for corrction in thread title
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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 02:44 AM
Response to Original message
1. Kicked and Recommeneded.. Responses should be interesting..
:hi: :beer: :hide:
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The Judged Donating Member (613 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 03:19 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Googled "DLC accomplishments" in News. Here are the results.
Searched on Google in the news:

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&lr=&tab=wn&ie=UTF-8&q=DLC+accomplishments&btnG=Search+News

Searched on Google on the web:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=DLC+accomplishments&btnG=Search

Anybody finding an actual accomplishment, kindly post the link.

Thanks.
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 03:27 AM
Response to Original message
3. An attempt to be fair and balanced..
1. NAFTA, The Telecommunications act of 1996 which narrowed the discussion of debate, so-called welfare reform which pushed countless desperate people into greater desperation. Trade policies which outsource jobs and make a mockery of the very concept of democracy all over the world by shoving an economic order down the throats of people who don't want it while removing economic issues from the dangerous hand of the democratic will of the people in both the developing world and the developed world. Backing a moderated form of neoconservative hegemonic foreign policy which most of the world does not want and is not making the world or America a safer place. Building a more punitive society. They have pushed bold progressive polices like genuine universal health care and reduction of a bloated military budget to the margines of political discussion. They have successfully (I am specifically thinking of the likes of Al From and Will Marshall)smeared and marginalized Democrats who gets in their way.

2. Am I personally better off? Probably. They join with the GOP in keeping my taxes down. And when I travel throughout the developing world I can buy fine wines and cheeses and enjoy excellent cafes and boutiques that barely existed 20 year ago in that part of the world.

3. Have they delivered on the Democratic Party's agenda? I hope not.

4. Will they help the Democrats gain control of.....? That is hard say. In the short run they might. In the long run? I don't think so. More importantly; in the long run will they make America and the World a kinder, gentler and more just place? They are hell of a lot better than the Republicans and they may help reduce the damage.

5. Will the DLC help accomplish the political goals of the Democratic agenda? I doubt it. Even LBJ couldn't do that.

_________________

But is there still a difference between even a DLC Democrat and even a "moderate" Republican? HELL YES!!

HELL YES:


Please allow me to end with a 1996 quote from Noam Chomsky on why he was voting for the reelection of President Clinton and not for Ralph Nader.

from: Understanding Power by Noam Chomsky page 337

"I mean, I'll vote for Clinton, holding my nose--but the reason has nothing at all to do with big policy issues; there I can't see too much difference. What it has to do with are things like who's going to get to appoint the judiciary happens to have a big effect on people's lives....
They may be small policy differences when you look at the big picture--but remember, there's a huge amount of power out there, and small policy differences implementing a huge amount of power can make a big difference in people's lives....Okay, that makes a lot of difference for people whose kids are hungry in downtown Boston"

Of course that was in 1996. Since the first administration of Bush jr. it is clear that Dr. Chomsky considers the current Republican Party with its fundamentalist base and its influence on domestic policy and neoconservative influence on foreign policy to represent a significant departure from what had been bi-partisan consensus into a whole new and much more dangerous direction thus increasing the differences between the two parties.

_____________________

This is courtesy of project vote smart - link:

http://www.vote-smart.org/index.htm
_____________________

2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Nuclear Age Peace Foundation 67 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Kerry supported the interests of the Nuclear Age Peace Foundation 33 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Nuclear Age Peace Foundation 0 percent in 2004.
______________________________________

2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Friends Committee on National Legislation 50 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Kerry supported the interests of the Friends Committee on National Legislation 100 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Friends Committee on National Legislation 0 percent in 2004.
____________________________________________________

2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Abortion Reproductive Rights Action League 100 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Kerry supported the interests of the National Abortion Reproductive Rights Action League 100 percent in 2004

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the National Abortion Reproductive Rights Action League 0 percent in 2004.
__________________

2003-2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Civil Liberties Union 78 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator Kerry supported the interests of the American Civil Liberties Union 100 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the American Civil Liberties Union 22 percent in 2003-2004.
_____________________________

2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Americans for Democratic Action 95 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Kerry supported the interests of the Americans for Democratic Action 25 percent in 2004.2003 Senator Kerry supported the interests of the Americans for Democratic Action 85 percent in 2003

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Americans for Democratic Action 35 percent in 2004.
__________________________

2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the AFL-CIO 100 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Kerry supported the interests of the AFL-CIO 100 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the AFL-CIO 33 percent in 2004.
__________________________

2003-2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Education Association 85 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator Kerry supported the interests of the National Education Association 100 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the National Education Association 35 percent in 2003-2004.
______________________

2003-2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Human Rights Campaign 88 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator Kerry supported the interests of the Human Rights Campaign 100 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Human Rights Campaign 25 percent in 2003-2004.
_____________________________________

2003-2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights 100 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator Kerry supported the interests of the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights 100 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights 14 percent in 2003-2004.
____________________________

2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Christian Coalition 0 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Kerry supported the interests of the Christian Coalition 0 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Christian Coalition 83 percent in 2004.
_____________________________

2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Conservative Union 0 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Kerry supported the interests of the American Conservative Union 0 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the American Conservative Union 72 percent in 2004.

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The Judged Donating Member (613 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 03:43 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Thank you very much for your reply! I truly appreciate it!
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expatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 03:44 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Hell yeah! Great post.
Thanks to you, I can go to bed a little bit less later than I should.
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expatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 03:57 AM
Response to Original message
6. I support the fourth way.
The fourth way is the acceptance of the fact that our electoral system, in that it is winner take all - predicates the duopoly of the two party system. You form your ruling coalitions before the general election because you know the guy who gets the plurality fo votes wins everything and teh loser goes home with nothing. So the left forms a coalition with the center-left because the left would rather compromise and have a center-left government than a center-right government and the center-left would rather have a government with leftist influences than one with rightist ones.

The fourthway is to fight like hell to influence the Democratic Party with progressive ideas and agendas but to accept that the DLC corporate, centrists influences are a natural element to the party - they are our coalition partners.

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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 04:03 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. exactly -- I suppose that is what I'm getting at too
Edited on Thu Dec-15-05 04:06 AM by Douglas Carpenter
I just wish they would remember they are partners not that they set the whole agenda. And I wish the likes of Al From, Will Marshall and Joe Lieberman would remember that they are part of a Party not he only voice.
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The Judged Donating Member (613 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 04:16 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Interesting, but I am soliciting registered Democrat's perceptions of DLC
While your point is important, I am specifically interested to know registered Democrat's perceptions on the DLC on:

1). What are the Accomplishments of or failures by the DLC.
2). Are you better or worse off today than 20 years ago because of the DLC.
3). Do you believe that the DLC has delivered on the Democratic Party's Agenda over the past 20 years?
4). Do you have faith that DLC candidates will be help the Democratic Party reclaim the Presidency, control of the Congress, and control in the Supreme Court?
5). Do you have faith that the DLC will accomplish the political goals of the Democratic Party's Agenda?

Regardless of my personal opinions on these matters, I believe it is important to all registered Democrats and the DNC to understand what registered Democrats answers to these questions are.

I solicit them without any intent to bring reproach upon a DU member for expressing their views on these issues.

My interest is not to create an argument, but instead to define the argument for registered Democrats.

The collective answers to these questions, I believe, will shed light on some of the most sensitive issues in the Democratic Party in modern times.

Lastly, I present this thread as a poll.

Unfortunately it is not anonymous.

Again, I have absolutely no intention of vilifying anyone for their views on these questions, and instead hope that this thread will yield a great deal of input in order to help us move the Democratic Party forward and to be more acutely aware of what registered Democrats think about these issues.

If the format works, and trust is established, then perhaps we will all benefit from this initial discussion by following up with additional ones like it.

Thanks again.
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BamaBecky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
9. We don't need a DLC. What we need are REAL Democrats...
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
10. They've given me some great candidates
provided position papers that are both food for thought and a good beginning for policy discussions, and they've promoted some beneficial bills...

For accomplishmetns, I'd point to the large number of elected candidates who are members of or who lean toward DLC policies adn strategies and the fact that many of them are up for re-election and clobbering their GOP opponents.

By the way, as a registered Democrat, I'm much worse off due to the leftist lunatic fringe than I am due to anything the DLC did or didn't do. The leftist fringe has alienated voters and sought to split the party at every fucking opportunity for 20 years.

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Elidor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. He'll be playing here all week folks!


Short on specifics, long on unsubstantiated, broad-brush attacks on "the leftist lunatic fringe," those rotten weenies who have made his life such hell. Those bastards.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. "long on unsubstantiated, broad-brush attacks" Irony IS wonderful
Hey, if you want specific instances, you can ask nice, and i'll think about telling you.
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The Judged Donating Member (613 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #11
22. Please don't direct negative responses to members in this thread.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
12. The Clinton economic boom of the 1990's
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NoFederales Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
13. Recommended; this will be interesting.
NoFederales
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Writer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
15. *Knock knock knock* Um, excuse me for a minute...
Edited on Thu Dec-15-05 12:44 PM by Writer
but I thought the DLC was a think tank designed to promote a centrist philosophy in the Democratic Party. I'm not exactly sure what you're expecting the DLC to DO other than fund centrist Democratic causes and provide their viewpoints on current policy discussions.

Frankly I think those questions would be more interesting if they were asked of the DNC. Because last I checked, when I voted for a 'D,' I voted for a Democrat, regardless of whether he or she was a centrist or not. The DNC - they're the political party that is actually structured to run candidates - DLC and non-DLC. Remember them?

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SeanQ Donating Member (515 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Here here!
But so many of the DC insiders don't seem to have any real desire to pay attention to the DNC. They raise money for reelection from special interests and criticize the DNC and the party core whenever they dare disagree.

:P

Dean speaks for me (well enough anyway, even if he is a centrist). So I give my money and support to the party (the DNC). Let the DLC candidates constituents decide if they like them better than another candidate.
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Problem is that they're not funding "centrist" Dems...
They're funding corporate Dems.

If they were funding moderates, they'd be OK.

You can be a moderate without kissing the ass of corporations.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. Now now, you're interfering with the Junior Joe McCarthy Club
They don't want to hear facts...they want to ask Are you now or have you ever been a DLC sympathizer?
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The Judged Donating Member (613 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
17. Once again, kindly refrain from changing the focus of this thread.
The thread is straight forward.

The DLC has existed for over 20 years, has been actively pursuing an agenda for over 20 years, has been utilizing membership in the DNC for its members for over 20 years, and now has a track record of over 20 years to gauge their effect on the Democratic Party and the Democratic Agenda.

These are indisputable facts.

Therefore, have some civility and let DU members state what they think about DLC in terms of the questions I have asked.

If you feel that this thread is objectionable, then just press alert, but please don't attack those that answer the questions.

Let this thread be a sanctuary of opinions free from the regular DU attacks.

I have kept my word and refrained from responding directly to those who at least seem to be honestly offering answers to the questions in the lead post of this thread, unless thanking them for their input and effort.

Kindly do the same, and let discourse take place.

If you are inspired to discuss related but different ideas, then please fell free to create another thread for that purpose.

thanks.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. But your premises are so flawed that it's ridiculous not to veer
off into reality....
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The Judged Donating Member (613 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
21. Please don't direct negative responses to members in this thread.
If you disagree with another member's opinions and answers, then that is fine.

Just answer the questions for yourself.

This is not an argument!

It is a poll, of sorts, and the thoughts of DU members should not be corrected, set straight, put down, assailed, or imputed in this thread.

Just let DU members have their opportunity to express their answers to the questions asked in the lead post of this thread.

This thread isn't about being right or wrong, it is about understanding registered Democrats thoughts on these questions.

Whether those thoughts are in agreement with my own or your own or another DU member's is not the issue, so lets us remain on point and civil.

Lastly, EVERY member of DU can answer the questions, and should feel free to do so without expecting another DU member to respond to their thoughts, other than to say thanks or add praise.

If you have a negative opinion of any DU member or thought presented by a DU member, kindly refrain from expressing it in this thread.

Please let this thread move forward and remain free from diversions.

thanks to those who have and who will participate.
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The Judged Donating Member (613 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 04:49 PM
Response to Original message
23. My answers to these questions.
1a). The DLC's accomplishments:

- President William Jefferson Clinton elected and served two terms after President George H. W. Bush inisted on running for a second term in spite of substantial lack of American Public support, and candidate CLinton was able to take advantage of that circumstance.
- good at getting candidates for public office that are willing to be members of the DLC elected to Governors, Representatives, and Senators offices.
- for eight years the Executive Branch of the federal government saw great accomplishments by President Clinton's appointees. Note: these accomplishments have subsequently been undone and reversed in large part since President Clinton left office.

1b). The DLC's failures: (Note: While these failures are not exclusively on the DLC, the DLC has not stopped these failures, and thus any credibility that they wILL have an impact on these issues in the future are in question)

- fail to make any noticeable impact on local politics in states, despite Governorships.
- fail to make protection of the integrity of elections and votes a priority by ensuring a paper trail and accountability on election officials and in election processes at the federal, state, and local government levels.
- fail to conduct congressional oversight that could have either prevented or reduced the impact of scandals resulting from federal deregulation, movement toward "laissez faire" economic policy, and conservative Executive Branch interpretations of existing federal laws and policies.
- fail to hold Executive Branch appointees and federal agency managers and supervisors accountable for poor managerial performance of federal agencies and to standards that result in federal agencies actually accomplishing their charters.
- failure to be consistent or credible on national defense policy.
- fail to reign in federal, state, and local government spending.
- fail to get cooperation from mainstream media in keeping DLC and DNC issues in plain view of as a priority to Americans.
- fail to connect with American Public, who generally don't understand what the DLC is, how it works, and what it is trying to accomplish.
- fail to advance DNC agenda, even in a minimalist sense.
- fail to curb corporate consolidation.
- fail to curb corporate fiscal and managerial unaccountability.
- fail to curb federal encouragement of mismanagement by corporations on pensions, labor laws, and financial reporting.
- fail to curb loss of civil liberties and freedoms that existed prior to 9/11.
- fail to work with the Democratic Party to maintain an unified and clear publicly supported voting block in Congress and in state and local legislatures.

2). Worse off. The DLC has failed to get into and maintain a political position of power to actually carry out its stated goals and policies.

When most of eight years of Executive Branch control can be undone in four or less years, and when virtually a century of Democratic legislative accomplishments are undone in 25 to 30 years, then IMO this cannot be viewed as Democratic Party success.

3). No.

4). I believe that if and when the Republicans turn the public against their agenda and candidates, that the DLC will be able to have its members, who are also Democratic Party members, elected to more public offices.

However, I don't believe the Congress, the Supreme Court, and the White House will be won by DLC members and held at the same time in our lifetime, as I do believe they will be by Republicans relatively soon.

5). No faith. A better plan is needed. A better Think tank is needed. A better track record is needed. A better alternative is needed.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. If only progressives had a group like this..oh wait, they DO
and not even the progressive purists give two shits about them.

Hence all this dreary wailing about the DLC.
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The Judged Donating Member (613 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Please don't direct negative responses to members in this thread.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Irony IS a wonderful thing....
Yeah, for our "progressive purists," it is a downer to be reminded that even they don't REALLY care about progressive issues enough to promote their own group.
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. You won the fight. Quit hitting your opponent, please
That was really good, Mr Benchley. Now perhaps you should positively encourage people to stand up for something instead of just living in reaction formation all the time.
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The Judged Donating Member (613 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Once again, kindly refrain from changing the focus of this thread.
Also, Please don't direct negative responses to members in this thread.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #27
43. Jeeze, I've put umpty-ump posts suggesting just that
Btu somehow our "progressive purists" don't seem to have any interest in putting up progressive proposals or promoting the PDA or the Progressive Cacus' programs...all we get is this constant bitching about how unfair it is that other people have viable candidates who have a think tank and proposals.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #23
37. RE: Your list of "DLC failures"
fail to make any noticeable impact on local politics in states, despite Governorships.

Let me give you two examples as to why you're wrong. Regardless of what you feel for Zell Miller now, while governor of GA he created and funded the Hope Scholarship. That was a TREMENDOUS impact.

Secondly, as Paulk pointed out below (and you accused him of changing the focus of the thread), the DLC was instrumental in taking back the Colorado Statehouse, for the first time in over 30 years, from Republican control.

fail to make protection of the integrity of elections and votes a priority by ensuring a paper trail and accountability on election officials and in election processes at the federal, state, and local government levels.

Yeah, well who has? Has ANY Democrat been in a position to do that. Know what? The DLC failed to regulate cheating carnival game operators, too.

In fact, my response here can go for most of your list.

failure to be consistent or credible on national defense policy.

You're serious, huh?

On second thought, your list is so ludicrous I can't continue debunking it.

You fault the DLC for not being in power, more or less.



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The Judged Donating Member (613 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. Once again, kindly refrain from changing the focus of this thread.
By answering the questions, you have made your thoughts known.

The purpose of the thread is not to see who is right and wrong and to set the record straight.

The purpose is to solicit responses to the questions, without reprisals or corrections from other DU members.

This is a civil attempt to poll DU members who are registered Democrats in order to establish the widespread thoughts they share on the answers to these questions.

To be sure, there is no wrong or right in this thread.

It is about understanding where DU'ers thoughts are on these questions.

Kindly refrain from correcting others in this thread, and be content that you have offered your thoughts
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The Judged Donating Member (613 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. Please don't direct negative responses to members in this thread.
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
29. here in Colorado the DLC was instrumental in taking back the
Statehouse, for the first time in over 30 years, from Republican control.

LIke it or not - centrist positions play better in states like CO than progressive ones.

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The Judged Donating Member (613 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. Once again, kindly refrain from changing the focus of this thread.
You should answer the questions.

The information you presented would fit into the answer to one of the questions.

I look forward to you answering all of the questions.

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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. how did that change the focus of the thread?
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The Judged Donating Member (613 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. Partially on topic, but not on format. Focus: a set of related questions.
Please feel free to answer all of the questions in a single post.

I eagerly await your answers.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #35
44. When the judged said he wanted DLC accomplishments
he meant he wanted the teenz to bitch and moan....
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The Judged Donating Member (613 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #44
47. Once again, kindly refrain from changing the focus of this thread.
Please don't direct negative responses to members in this thread.
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Writer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #29
41. Fellow Coloradoan here.
Absolutely correct. I simply don't understand why those so staunchly against the DLC, or centrist philosophy for that matter, don't listen to folks like us who have witnessed it WORK first hand!

But again, as Voltaire said, "When people undertake to reason, all is lost." Reason is out. Belief is in. The Enlightenment failed.
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The Judged Donating Member (613 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. Once again, kindly refrain from changing the focus of this thread.
AND

Please don't direct negative responses to members in this thread.

***************************************************

These five questions are not biased AGAINST the DLC and are not based on flawed premises, to my knowledge.

1). The DLC has existed for more than 20 years.
2). The DLC has sought to influence the Democratic Party, registered Democratic voters, candidates for public office, and politics in the federal, state, and local governments in the United States during that time.
3). Many members of the DLC are also elected Democratic Party members.
4). The questions rely on these facts as their basis.

As you may see, if you read the entire thread, I have attempted to be fair to all who simply answer the questions.

Lastly, I have consistently objected to those who undertake other ventures, such as responding negatively to other DU members in this thread and changing the focus from having a DU member who is a registered Democrat answer the questions in the lead message in this thread.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #41
45. But you're changing the focus of the thread when you point to success!
(snicker)

When he said "What has the DLC accomplished?" he wanted the only answer to be "nothing."
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The Judged Donating Member (613 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. Once again, kindly refrain from changing the focus of this thread.
Please don't direct negative responses to members in this thread.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. Irony IS such a wonderful thing
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The Judged Donating Member (613 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. Once again, kindly refrain from changing the focus of this thread.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. If the focus was on comedy, you've hit the mark!
Registered Democrats: What has the DLC accomplished for you?

Shut up! Shut up! I didn't want to hear any actual accomplishments! You're changing the focus of the thread!!!!
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The Judged Donating Member (613 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. Once again, kindly refrain from changing the focus of this thread.
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The Judged Donating Member (613 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
30. Registered Democrats: What has the DLC accomplished for you?
1). Please don't direct negative responses to members in this thread.

2). Kindly refrain from changing the focus of this thread.

thanks.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
32. ok, I'm game
Edited on Thu Dec-15-05 07:05 PM by wyldwolf
First, let's get this out of the way. Bill Clinton was DLC and his policies were from the DLC. In his own words:

In 1985, I got involved in the newly formed Democratic Leadership Council, a group dedicated to forging a winning message for the Democrats based on fiscal responsibility, creative new ideas on social policy, and a commitment to a strong national defense. Later on, I traveled to thirteen states and the District of Columbia to speak on topics about evenly divided between politics and policy. The most important political speech was one called "Democratic Capitalism," which I delivered to the DLC in Williamsburg, Virginia. I thought the DLC was the only group committed to developing the new ideas Democrats needed both to win elections and do right by the country. In Williamsburg, I spoke about the need to make access to the global economy "democratic" -- that is, available to all citizens and communities. I had become a convert to William Julius Wilson's argument, articulated in his book The Truly Disadvantaged, that there were no race-specific solutions to hard-core unemployment and poverty. The only answers were schools, adult education and training, and jobs.

In March 1990 I went to New Orleans to accept the chairmanship of the DLC. I was convinced the group's ideas on welfare reform, criminal justice, education, and economic growth were crucial to the future of the Democratic Party and the nation. In December, we launched the Texas DLC chapter in Austin. In my speech, I argued that, contrary to our liberal critics, we were good Democrats. We believed in keeping the American dream alive for all people. We believed in government, though not in the status quo. And we believed government was spending too much on yesterday and today -- interest on debt, defense, more money for the same health care -- and too little on tomorrow: education, the environment, research and development, the infrastructure. I said the DLC stood for a modern, mainstream agenda: the expansion of opportunity, not bureaucracy; choice in public schools and child care; responsibility and empowerment for poor people; and reinventing government, away from the top-down bureaucracy of the industrial era, to a leaner, more flexible, more innovative model appropriate for the modern global economy


1. 1). After 20 years of DLC influence on the Democratic Party, registered Democratic voters, and federal, state, and local politics, what accomplishments of or failures by the DLC are most noteworthy to you?

Please offer examples.


The Strongest Economy in a Generation. Longest Economic Expansion in U.S. History. In February 2000, the United States entered the 107th consecutive month of economic expansion -- the longest economic expansion in history.

21.2 million new jobs were created since 1993, the most jobs ever created under a single Administration -- and more new jobs than Presidents Reagan and Bush created during their three terms. 92 percent (19.4 million) of the new jobs were created in the private sector, the highest percentage in 50 years.

Fastest and Longest Real Wage Growth in Over Three Decades. In the last 12 months, average hourly earnings have increased 3.7 percent -- faster than the rate of inflation. The United States has had five consecutive years of real wage growth -- the longest consecutive increase since the 1960s. Since 1993, real wages are up 6.8 percent, after declining 4.3 percent during the Reagan and Bush years.

Unemployment was the lowest Nearly the Lowest in Three Decades.

Highest Homeownership Rate in History.

Lowest Poverty Rate in Two Decades. The poverty rate has fallen from 15.1 percent in 1993 to 12.7 percent in 1998. That's the lowest poverty rate since 1979 and the largest five-year drop in poverty in nearly 30 years (1965-1970). The African-American poverty rate has dropped from 33.1 percent in 1993 to 26.1 percent in 1998 -- the lowest level ever recorded and the largest five-year drop in African-American poverty in more than a quarter century (1967-1972). The poverty rate for Hispanics is at the lowest level since 1979, and dropped to 25.6 percent in 1998.

Largest Five-Year Drop in Child Poverty Rate Since the ‘60s. Under President Clinton and Vice President Gore, child poverty has declined from 22.7 percent in 1993 to 18.9 percent in 1998 -- the biggest five-year drop in nearly 30 years. The poverty rate for African-American children has fallen from 46.1 percent in 1993 to 36.7 percent in 1998 -- a level that is still too high, but is the lowest level in 20 years and the biggest five-year drop on record. The rate also fell for Hispanic children, from 36.8 percent to 34.4 percent - and is now 6.5 percentage points lower than it was in 1993.

Improved Access to Affordable, Quality Child Care and Early Childhood Programs.

Increased the Minimum Wage.

Enacted Single Largest Investment in Health Care for Children since 1965.

Extended Strong, Enforceable Patient Protections for Millions of Americans.

An environmental budget that included a record $1.4 billion for Lands Legacy -- a 93 percent increase and the largest one-year investment ever requested for conserving America’s lands.

...and that's just the accomplishments of Bill Clinton and Al Gore following the "new democrat" formula. It would take countless hours to list the accomplishments of various Senators, Congressmen, and Governors.

2). As a registered Democrat, are you better or worse off today than 20 years ago because of the DLC?

Please offer examples.


You bet. I was laid off twice during the Bush I years and had companies trying to recruit me in parking lots of companies I already worked for during the Clinton years.

3). As a registered Democrat, do you believe that the DLC has delivered on the Democratic Party's Agenda over the past 20 years?

Please offer examples.


Most definitely.

The Democratic party's agenda, as linked by you, has "Keeping America Safe At Home" as it's first item. During the Clinton years...

CLINTON developed the nation's first anti-terrorism policy, and appointed first national coordinator of anti-terrorist efforts.

Bill Clinton stopped cold the Al Qaeda millennium hijacking and bombing plots.

Bill Clinton stopped cold a planned attack to kill the Pope.

Bill Clinton stopped cold a planned attack to blow up 12 U.S. jetliners simultaneously.

Bill Clinton stopped cold a planned attack to blow up UN Headquarters.

Bill Clinton stopped cold a planned attack to blow up FBI Headquarters.

Bill Clinton stopped cold a planned attack to blow up the Israeli Embassy in Washington.

Bill Clinton stopped cold a planned attack to blow up Boston airport.

Bill Clinton stopped cold a planned attack to blow up Lincoln and Holland Tunnels in NY.

Bill Clinton stopped cold a planned attack to blow up the George Washington Bridge.

Bill Clinton stopped cold a planned attack to blow up the US Embassy in Albania.

Bill Clinton tried to kill Osama bin Laden and disrupt Al Qaeda through preemptive strikes (efforts denounced by the G.O.P.).

Bill Clinton brought perpetrators of first World Trade Center bombing and CIA killings to justice.

Bill Clinton did not blame the Bush I administration for first World Trade Center bombing even though it occurred 38 days after Bush left office. Instead, worked hard, even obsessively -- and successfully -- to stop future terrorist attacks.

Bill Clinton named the Hart-Rudman commission to report on nature of terrorist threats and major steps to be taken to combat terrorism.

Bill Clinton increased the military budget by an average of 14 per cent, reversing the trend under Bush I.

Bill Clinton tripled the budget of the FBI for counterterrorism and doubled overall funding for counterterrorism.

Bill Clinton detected and destroyed cells of Al Qaeda in over 20 countries.

Bill Clinton created national stockpile of drugs and vaccines including 40 million doses of smallpox vaccine.

Of Clinton's efforts says Robert Oakley, Reagan Ambassador for Counterterrorism: "Overall, I give them very high marks" and "The only major criticism I have is the obsession with Osama".

Paul Bremer, current Civilian Administrator of Iraq disagrees slightly with Robert Oakley as he believed the Bill Clinton Administration had "correctly focused on bin Laden.

Barton Gellman in the Washington Post put it best, "By any measure available, Bill Clinton left office having given greater priority to terrorism than any president before him" and was the "first administration to undertake a systematic anti-terrorist effort".

The Democratic party's agenda, as linked by you, has "Strength Overseas" as it's second item. During the Clinton years...

... Clinton brought a brutal dictator, Milosovec, to justice and haulted ethnic cleansing in Kosovo.

....Clinton crafted a Chemical Weapons Ban Treaty.

... Clinton deployed a Defense Reinvest and Conversion. Bush enjoying weapons developed and purchased by Clinton today.

We've already covered "a strong economy."

In fact, every facet of the Democratic party's agenda was handled in expert fashion by the Clinton administration so I see no need to go in depth for each point of the DNC agenda.


*********************************************
Looking toward the future:

Questions about your expectations of the DLC:
*********************************************


4). As a registered Democrat, do you have faith that DLC candidates will be help the Democratic Party reclaim the Presidency, control of the Congress, and control in the Supreme Court?

Please explain your reasoning.


To start, there is very little a president can do to gain control of the Supreme Court.

That being said, yes, a DLC candidate can most definitely help the Democratic party reclaim the Presidency and control of Congress.

Realistically, the party is not going to lose solidly blue states. So the key is to win in red and purple states.

So, in a nutshell, we've already seen the performance of Mark Warner (DLC) and Tim Kaine (DLC) in the reddest of red Virginia where a more moderate to conservative ideology is more appealing to conservative voters.

There are also Gallup poll results showing that Democrats want the party to take more moderate positions.

5). As a registered Democrat, do you have faith that the DLC will accomplish the political goals of the Democratic Party's Agenda?

Please explain your reasoning.


Accomplish? Yes, if they're elected. The DLC's policy positions mirror those of the party's official agenda, but the DLC's are more detailed.

I have no reason to believe the DLC would invest so much time and thought into these policy statements and then not carry them out when the opportunity presents itself.

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The Judged Donating Member (613 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. Thank you for you cooperation in answering these questions.
I hope you effort will inspire more DU members to respond with their own thoughts in answering these questions.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
34. What the DLC has given us
1. No resistance to, and sometimes outright support of, Reagan's military build-up and intervention in Central America and the Caribbean

2. NAFTA and other "free" trade pacts

3. A political culture of style over substance
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The Judged Donating Member (613 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. Once again, kindly refrain from changing the focus of this thread.
Kindly take the time to add your thoughts to this thread in the format of answering the questions.

Thanks.
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AntiCoup2K4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 10:25 PM
Response to Original message
52. What has the DLC given me?
Not a single solitary god damned thing.

Except for the embarrassment of knowing there are traitors and sellouts who drag down MY party with their treachery and spinelessness.
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The Judged Donating Member (613 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #52
54. Once again, kindly refrain from changing the focus of this thread.
AntiCoup2K4,

I encourage you to answer the five questions in the lead post of this thread.

thanks.
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Don1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
53. My Answers
1). After 20 years of DLC influence on the Democratic Party, registered Democratic voters, and federal, state, and local politics, what accomplishments of or failures by the DLC are most noteworthy to you?

Please offer examples.


They have gotten the Democratic base to move rightward by presenting themselves as a centrist leadership group. Much of their alleged hypothesis about appealing to the center is from liberals losing to Reagan, which in actuality had nothing to do with ideology and everything to do with the Movie Stardom of Reagan. It would just take a charismatic liberal, like a JFK or an FDR to reclaim the American Presidency. Just about everyone now believes that progressives and liberals are a severe minority in America and so everything is now about "framing the debate" to appeal to some alleged middle of the road or even conservative group. This action leads to the deterioration of leftist arguments and future generations never get to even hear such rhetoric.

This is noteworthy because even in a progressive forum, there are apologists for the DLC. The DLC exerts much influence as a voting bloc and by co-opting recruiting tools. Rahm Emanuel of the DLC heads the DCCC, for example, (co-optation) and is inlfuencing new candidates to be more friendly.

The DLC was not successful at appealing to the middle with Clinton. They were not successful at appealing to the middle with Gore. The truth is that what they were successful at was in co-opting the Party leadership such that the Presidential candidates had to be DLC. It is noteworthy that after Gore won, it was the DLC that failed to support him in his case against Bush before the Senate. And when Kerry "lost," it was the DLC that failed to stand up for him in the whole Ohio scandal in the Senate. It was Barbara Boxer, a progressive, who stood up for Kerry. She grew much more popular as a result. This is a tremendous example of DLC failings not to support Kerry, a failure both ethically and pragmatically, as it would lead to popularity and truth about what happened in Ohio.

Noteworthy legislative failings of the DLC have been their Welfare Reform crap, which started out as the Welfare Elimination Act; NAFTA; unwavering support for Iraq war; CAFTA; the TeleCommunications Act of 1996, the Bankrupt Americans bill; and failure to promote universal health care to a popular movement.

All of these things have helped America along on a road to changing language, changing media, destroying the poor, destroying labor, and the only inevitability is fascism. However, this means that the DLC front is successful. I do not mean Kerry or Hillary per se. I mean, the silent partners. The board members. The corporate funding. PNAC. Al From. These guys are pushing the agenda they want and changing America to their personal benifit.

2). As a registered Democrat, are you better or worse off today than 20 years ago because of the DLC?

Please offer examples.


I would say worse. I already described it above:
"All of these things have helped America along on a road to changing language, changing media, destroying the poor, destroying labor, and the only inevitability is fascism. However, this means that the DLC front is successful. I do not mean Kerry or Hillary per se. I mean, the silent partners. The board members. The corporate funding. PNAC. Al From. These guys are pushing the agenda they want and changing America to their personal benifit."


3). As a registered Democrat, do you believe that the DLC has delivered on the Democratic Party's Agenda over the past 20 years?

Please offer examples.


They have offered meager benifits to the middle class. When Clinton was President, things were good for the middle class. A couple of tax credits. Education programs. Decent funding of non-military science. For the poor, though, no. The Welfare Reform bill stunk. This changing progressive language to be conservative framing too is bad for the left, for the people. The Bankruptcy bill and free trade acts are not a part of the Agenda either.

So, my conclusion is that Clinton delivered partially to the middle class, but not the Agenda for the poor or minorities. After Clinton, DLC became even worse. Not fighting for Gore against Bush meant no fighting for the middle class anymore.

So we are left with a DLC which fights neither for the middle class, labor, nor the poor. On average, they vote less along Party lines than the rest of the Party. Half of them (the DiNOs) vote much worse than the other half. You know the names: Lieberman, etc, etc. They have definitely not delivered on the Agenda.


*********************************************
Looking toward the future:

Questions about your expectations of the DLC:
*********************************************

4). As a registered Democrat, do you have faith that DLC candidates will be help the Democratic Party reclaim the Presidency, control of the Congress, and control in the Supreme Court?

Please explain your reasoning.


Yes and no. I think that the DLC will somewhat help in reclaiming Congress and the Presidency. Not the Supreme Court, though, as those conservatives will stay until a Republican comes along again. That's why young replacments are being found.

Now, I wrote "somewhat" because the DLC cannot really help with a majority. If we get a majority of Democrats in Congress and half of Congress is DLC, we are still hosed. They will still vote against the people far too often.


5). As a registered Democrat, do you have faith that the DLC will accomplish the political goals of the Democratic Party's Agenda?

Please explain your reasoning.


The DLC has a separate goal from the Democratic Party progressive agenda. The DLC will fail to grow the labor movement and protect labor in America. Look at tort reform. Look at the Bankruptcy bill. The DLC will fail to protect the poor and minorities. Look at Lieberman and habeas corpus for foreigners. Look at the Bankruptcy bill. Look at Welfare elimination. Some in the DLC were even cozying up on the whole social security privatization thing.

So, no. However, the Democrats might be able to accomplish the Party agenda. Some good apples in the DLC might even help, but not all the DLC. Not the DiNOs. They will continue to thwart the Party at inopportune times.
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The Judged Donating Member (613 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-15-05 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #53
55. Thank you for participating. Your input is appreciated.
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