Well Folks... Looks like Our Window is Closing - Please Tell Me I'm Wrong

[radio4progressives]

but also tell me why I'm wrong.....

Can anyone paying any attention to the current political events (pushing Bush back up in a very favorable light) show me that my perceptions are too skewed to take seriously? His new PR show case seems to be sweeping the MSM with remarkable plumb and favor.

The window of opportunity for the Democratic Party to gain any traction seems to be slipping like water through fingers - No amount of PR spin on the part of the DP is going to be able to shift the current perceptions without the necessary and substantiative set of facts (on whatever issue, foreign or domestic) to prove that this administration has led this country down a course of disaster.

Since the Democratic Leadership has FAILED us all miserably (even given the sweet opportunity of a plummeting poll which had hit bottom but is now turning around and is now back on the rise)i think it remains to be the case that "taking back our country" is never going to happen if left up to the devices and infinite wisdom of the Democratic Party Leadership.

Indeed it seems, the current political climate calls for a renewed surge of grassroots activism, imo.

If we're collectively ready to get out of denial about this party's leadership, and know that it's going to be completely up to the grassroots - i suggest we focus sharply on the Diebold Lawsuit, and all of it's implications.

I'm not hearing a word of this being mentioned on cable news, just like the DSM, i think we're going to have to hit the MSM with immense pressure to cover the story of the rigged elections vis a vis the newly filed Diebold Lawsuits.

but if I'm wrong about my perceptions and everything else, i trust you all will be too happy to let me know.

And actually, i really do want to be proven wrong, because i really hate what i'm seeing.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

1. I've been thinking the same thing, actually

but didn't want to mention it.

[radio4progressives]

19. i know what you mean, but we can't fight back if we ignore it right? n/t

[NMDemDist2]

2. it's just a blip in the numbers

he got a slight bounce from the gas prices going down, the numbers still stink on Iraq but I expect them to go down when things get no better in spite of the "new Iraqi g'ment" after the election

and the numbers will totally tank when the next round of indictments come down and the credit card bills hit after Jan with double minimum payments. Most consumers still don't know about that little hidden "gift" in the Bankruptcy Bill

and IMO the Dems are working hard behind the scenes to get some good candidates (esp Iraqi vets) and forging a clear message for '06

keep heart my friend....

[radio4progressives]

14. Indictments, yes i nearly forgot about those...

Delay, Abramonoff, Frist and a string of others and yes maybe, Rove (?)...

and then there's the languishing investigation on the pre-war intel.

I know the Dems are working on good candidates, that is important work.

but I think we gotta get the business of Diebold and past rigged elections out there in the public fora, or the next elections will be flipped to the repugs and with their PR media machine so well greased, no one will question it if they even hear about it. We have history to teach us this.

if the repugs know anything, it's that public perception IS EVERYTHING.

i will take heart from the thought of things you mentioned, i needed a reminder...

so thank you!

[NMDemDist2]

16. oh and Diebold..... who knows what rocks will get turned over when O'Dell

gets into court.........

glad I could help :hug:

[radio4progressives]

21. Yes - This is what we need to focus on i think...

because it addresses all of the issues concerning past elections, and the results as well as the corruption etc...

and we can't just let it go under the radar, we have the 2006 elections and we need to have that COUNTED accurately!

[SpiralHawk]

20. Oh, and the Heating Bills lying on kitchen tables across America

Should be pinned directly on the BushCo Oil Crony NeoCon Republican Cabal Culture of Corruption (BOCNRCCOC).

[leveymg]

52. Send your heating bill to 1600 Penn Ave

Have Bush-Cheney's energy industry cronies pick up the tab. They have so much cash, they don't know what to do with it.:bounce:

[electropop]

22. Numbers already heading back down.

Zogby has him at 38, which I believe is down 5 on their poll. One aberrant number does not make a comeback. He still has to deal with:

(1) Best bud Ken Lay finally in court, making a fool of himself.
(2) Diebold's meltdown, including Wally O'Dell's resignation and a lawsuit alleging they defrauded stockholders by claiming the voting machines were reliable.
(3) Karl Rove's pending indictment.
(4) Leon County has banned Diebold.
(5) Abramoff. This will be the scandal of the century. So far. It's very media-friendly: Mafia hits, huge bribes, possibly a brothel for Congressmen.
(6) Nobody is forgetting the occupation of Iraq. The body bags just keep coming.
(7) Frist's pending indictment.
(8) DeLay's pending trial.
(9) Katrina victims are back in the limelight as housing problems return.

and on and on

each of these things hurts Bush and his cronies a little more.

[radio4progressives]

26. I saw Zogby but MSM reported on Gallop instead - up at 42% and rising

I think diebold and Abramonoff is going to be our best hope.

I'm praying that Rove is crucified but...ya know he's the Prez only friend.

Iraq is a forgone conclusion, Bush want's to end this war as soon as he can call it a victory, i'm sure of it.

The list is indeed long and growing... but it's almost all "old news".

people will tune it out like they did with White Water, Paula Jones, Jennifer Flowers - and even Monica Lewinsky and Linda Tripp if it wasn't for that damn impeachment proceeding, and the definition of "Is" . (that stuck)

Yep, i think it's going to have to be Abramonoff, Diebold and possibly a scandulous (MSM style) report from the pre-war intelligence investigation.

[electropop]

58. Bush has no desire to end the occupation.

The occupation is the goal in Iraq. He has already won, in neocon terms. He has thousands of US troops planted firmly on top of an ocean of oil. That's why he's desperately selling it, no matter the harm to his poll numbers. Who cares about the polls when you control the vote counting? He isn't connected to reality enough to understand that at some point, it doesn't matter if you control the vote counting, when you can no longer control the peasants.

[radio4progressives]

59. You're right, what I should have said is ...

Bush will give the IMPRESSION that we're going to draw down/end the war, call it a victory because he doesn't want the real war on his TV screen everyday - i suspect he's going to pull a tricky dick manuever - but who knows yet..

either way, the lies piled will only end if we impeach him AND Cheney - after the 2006 elections are successful for dems - but then we'll need to pressure the dems to proceed because they won't go there on their own voilition..

[roguevalley]

29. its strays from his base coming home to roost. for now. zogby

has him back at 38% with soft numbers in his base. don't let it get to you. he can't recover from this. Think of the news casts in about a month or two of thousands of people living in tents and cars in the gulf, shivering from cold and getting sick. Dickhead can't recover.

[radio4progressives]

30. Oky doky... So will the MSM will report Zogby's numbers?

Keith O' did, but I haven't heard it reported elsewhere yet...

remember these freaks have a remarkable talent for turning truth on it's head!

[nickshepDEM]

35. Sorry, but Zogby = Garbage. Probably the worst pollster in the country.

At one point during the 2004 campaign he had Kerry and Bush in a dead heat in Alabama.

[radio4progressives]

41. hmm.... he's reported to be one of the most accurate ...

does anyone else get Alabama wrong?

[nickshepDEM]

42. Ive always heard the complete opposite.

The best by far is Mason Dixon, but they rarely poll nationwide. Mostly state races. Survey USA is one of my favorites. I guess its just a matter of opinion. I know Zogby's interactive polls have been proven to be complete garbage. Maybe his phone polls are better?

[radio4progressives]

47. hmm. really you KNOW for sure? I have a different impression, but that's

all it is, just an impression... i've never personally researched Zogby for accuracy.

[elizm]

54. I believe you are correct...

...He is reported to be the most accurate. He was also accurate in 2004....It was the vote 'counting' that was wrong...in states all across the country.

[niceypoo]

55. Bush is dropping still in some polls: zogby 38%

down 2 points from his Stellar 40 percent he flirted with for a week....lol: http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1049

[maxsolomon]

3. the rubber doesn't hit the road for 11 months

november 2006.

then november 2008.

too soon to judge.

[bahrbearian]

4. People are pretty forgiving at this time of year, just wait.. Chimpy

will do himself in , He's bragging up the economy, when that doesn't materialize, when the Iraqi elections don't bring peace,, Katrina,, people will realize everything he touchs......

[radio4progressives]

17. I'm hoping...

It's ashame that we have to capitalize on the misfortunes of the unfortuante ones - in order to look better as an alternative to the party in power.

[petgoat]

49. He's bragging about the economy because the Dow has

gone up 7% in the last two months. (November is almost
always good in the market.)

[paulk]

5. any excuse to attack the Democratic Leadership

ho - hum

[Lorien]

6. The people want change, and the MSM can't change their perceptions

that much at this point, imho. But there's still the problem of OUR party, which still can't decide what our positions are, or whether or not they should act as the opposition. The most recent poll that I've seen stated that more than 60% want leadership that is "the opposite of Bush", but will the Dems offer a strong alternative?

[radio4progressives]

18. yes - the $64 trillion dollar question ... n/t

[melody]

7. The anger and negativity out there is long-term

There's no coming back from most of the anger in the public.

[radio4progressives]

40. bush still lying about WMD's and Intel in Brian Williams's interview

that's gotta be the clinger...

[melody]

45. make that ARE long term :) n/t

[BillZBubb]

8. Nah!

The corporate media is doing what it usually does. It's catapulting the Repug propaganda non-stop. They are fawning all over the Chimperor and his phony "jump" in the polls. It's a mirage. The facts don't support the bullshit. People know what their energy bills look like. People know that Iraq is a mess. People know the economy is growing but the rewards aren't reaching them.

And yes, the Democratic leadership is AWOL. That is probably because the party is too diverse. We can't get out a cohesive message. On one side we've got Lieberman and his ilk undercutting any move against the disastrous war. On the other hand we've got people like Murtha and Pelosi trying to give the Democrats a hard position, but getting weak support. We can't agree that Alito must be stopped. We can't agree that the so-called "Patriot Act" must be stopped. The Democrats seem to be the party of every person for themselves on policy. That is nothing new.

Still all is not lost. The Democrats have a huge issue for 2006: the Repug's complete corruption. The Democrats must make the election about that and not let the Repugs push their usual wedge issues.

[radio4progressives]

27. Yep...

we gotta protect 2006 - by focusing like a laser on the Diebold lawsuit, referencing related issues - force it into the MSM before the campaigns get too close to election time.

[Warpy]

9. The Democrats need to start supporting Dean

instead of pursing their lips and sneering at everything he says. He's speaking the truth, adn we outside the beltway know it. If those sissies want to hold onto their cushy jobs, they'd better catch a clue soon.

The good news is that Stupid keeps losing support. Even if the DLC manages to cram another GOP candidate down our throats, chances are enough pubbies will stay home that electronic voting fraud won't carry the day.

The bad news is that we'll be stuck with another DLC president, hostile to the issues of 80% of the people in this country.

[radio4progressives]

23. right now, i'm looking at 2006 not 2008 - Diebold lawsuit should be

very revealing - and perhaps explosive enough to get on the radar screen and spur on other elections fraud investigations, BEFORE 2008.

know what i mean? otherwise, it'll be another one of those issues that can't be covered because "it's too sensitive during an election campaign" - like W's military record.

[ruggerson]

10. You're right it's all doomed

There is no longer a USA, life as we know it is over, please provide your P.O. Box so we may send along razor blades.

[leftstreet]

11. Email party leaders with our ideas

It can't hurt.

Email Pelosi, Reid, Dean with ideas that could help them change the talking points in the Corporate Media. Tell Nancy to send Ted Kennedy on a nightly news program to talk about his Medicare For All plan.
http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0112-37.htm
It doesn't matter if the plan isn't perfect. It only matters that we change the talking points.

Just like the Phone Tax War Protest. Get the head of the organization on FOX news and expose people to new talking points.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/12/04/BUGG2G1PMA1.DTL

[radio4progressives]

24. Great Idea! Will everyone please get behind this idea and DO THIS? n/t

[ellenfl]

12. we just had a little bump in interest rates too.

that should make a few people sit up and take notice . . . especially when those credit card payment increases hit them too. i AM a little discouraged by dubya's bump in the polls and hope it's just a blip. what's happening in ohio does not help, however.

i can't wait until jebbie is gone. on a positive note, our florida legislature just approved a bill to prohibit gifts from lobbyists. the legislators will now have to pay for anything more expensive than a cup of coffee.

ellen fl

[madrchsod]

13. it`s going to be a really depressing

start in 2006. about febuary the economy is going to hit the fan and it will get worse. there will be very little job growth

[radio4progressives]

25. MSM keeps lying about the gd economy! (sheesh) n/t

[MrBenchley]

15. Jeeze louise....the melodrama cranks on...

Ben Bolt's Alice was the fucking Rock of Gibraltar compared to our progressives...who either are tossing a rage-filled tantrum or slumping with despair.


"DON’T you remember sweet Alice, Ben Bolt,—
    Sweet Alice whose hair was so brown,
Who wept with delight when you gave her a smile,
    And trembled with fear at your frown?"

http://www.bartleby.com/248/380.html

"Since the Democratic Leadership has FAILED us all miserably"
Yeah, it's terrible the way Democrats let you down....I'm sure we're all ashamed (snicker).

[Bernardo de La Paz]

28. Oh ye faint of heart, take courage!

Don't be such a fraidy cat and pessimist.

You make some good suggestions for action. Don't exhaust yourself, and do stop to smell the roses, but action is a good way to combat depression.

Keep the pressure on. You didn't expect the September / October Bush-Republican implosion. You won't necessarily expect the next one either.

[Up2Late]

31. I've got one question for you, Where are you hearing that his numbers...

...are rebounding? In the MSM?

The recovering numbers are Spin too.

And all the recent positive talk about things improving in Iraq? That's BS too.

If you do want to hear what the situation REALLY is in Iraq, you should hear what TIME Magazines reporter in Baghdad had to say yesterday, live on NPR's Talk of the Nation. I thought the whole segment was good, but Times reporter almost becomes hysterical in this interview, trying to get across what he's seeing in Iraq:

Unless you want to hear the whole 24 minute segment, I'd skip to 12:45 in the Audio to were Michael Ware joins the program, Phebe Marr alone is fairly annoying.

Iraqis Prepare for Parliamentary Election

Listen to this story...(at link above)

Talk of the Nation, December 12, 2005 · Iraqis go to the polls
Thursday to elect a national parliament. They'll choose from a
long list of candidates from a wide variety of parties. Guests
take a look at the leading candidates, the key issues facing the
country and the divisions among the Sunnis, Shia and Kurds.

Guests:

Phebe Marr, senior fellow at the U.S. Institute of Peace; historian of modern Iraq; author, The Modern History of Iraq

Michael Ware is "TIME" magazine's Baghdad bureau chief (NPR Web site has name wrong)

<http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5049092>

[radio4progressives]

36. Excellent thanks! - hearing the poll numbers today on CNN/MSNBC

tweety bird and wolfy ...

[FreedomAngel82]

32. The question is

is anybody watching or listening anymore? Or are they just preaching to the choir?

[radio4progressives]

37. i monitor - enuf people are watching - unfortuantely n/t

[NI4NI]

33. No Dem hachet man with a killer instinct

who is willing to kick a Repuke dog when it's down. Somebody somewhere should be accuratley dishing out a daily dose of down and dirty details about Republican corruption past and present. It will piss off the Pukes and get them off their game, and the media presstitutes will eat it up. Besides Delay, Libby, Cunningham, Abramhoff, or Diebold remind America of Cheney's secret energy commission with the oil baron's and today's heating cost or Dumya's good friend Kenny Boy Lay who is about to go on trial. For once and for the sake of an already damaged America the Dems got to stop playing in the street while the Pukes fight in the slime and sewer.

[radio4progressives]

38. abso-freeking-lutely n/t

[leveymg]

53. Who should we nominate as Commissioner of Sewers?

It would have to be someone with a sharp tongue, a wicked sense of humor, and a finger in his nose.

[Doctor_J]

34. There wasn't any window

As long as the MSM are all whoring for the lying coward, we'll never really get a foothold for any real change. One little round of softball-swatting "interviews", and 2000 dead soldiers, massive deficits, massive unemployment, poverty, diplomatic disasters, torture, treason in the white house, Katrina, and anthrax are all forgotten.

[radio4progressives]

39. well.. yes and no - sometimes it's there - and then *poof* n/t

i

[marions ghost]

43. yes we need to press on the

Diebold lawsuits and not let that get buried...which the MSM wants to do.

[Lexingtonian]

44. uh, not quite

Bush and Republicans have five or six fundamental polling ratings. This particular little episode has been about riding their 'handling terrorism' rating, which was 49% approval/51% disapproval.

The story line as I see it is that Bush/Republicans did a party line change on November 30, defining 'victory' down and running up terrorism-associated fears as high as they could to distract from the implicit admission of failure in Iraq. The People generally doesn't respond with all that much anxiety to the playing up of 'Terror', but it does so when there is perceived involuntary risk, e.g. right after Al Qaeda attacks that kill a good number of people like themselves (Westerners). This sort of thing- a polling peak to the 'handling terrorism' level, followed by fall to a lower political demographic-defined floor- followed on '9/11' (92%->68%), on the Madrid bombing (68%->57%), and the London bombing (57%->49%).

This present peaking surprised me, but there is a sense of having gone over some kind of cliff in the struggle with Al Qaeda by trying to fight them in Iraq, of suddenly realizing that objectively nothing was accomplished and the Emperor- Homeland Security and such Bush Administration efforts- is curious naked. That meant a kind of apocalyptic sense and strange panic.

The deal is that after every such peak-inducing incident so far, the Bush/Republican 'handling terrorism' rating has fallen. It's actually a very strange rating, full of fear of the future and xenophobia and fears of all things globalism and Modernity, and generally identical with the 'strong leader' rating. It's fear of The Unknown, or The Other. It has been the Bush/Republican 'ceiling' rating consistently.

My impression is that there has been falloff in the 'handling terrorism' rating as the political price of the manouver. Rasmussen got a peaking on December 3 or 4 (that's how long it takes the Christian Right and hate radio information channels to reach all of their Believers and explain The New Doctrine Of The Faith) and it's been tickdown to 42% since (maybe lower). I have yet to see a polling of the 'handling terrorism' rating, but it was getting pretty strained and soft (it took a temporary hit during the Hurricane Katrina aftermath, from which it recovered slowly and unconvincingly). We'll get back to Our Regular Programming soon enough- say, January- with Bush ratings in the 36% or 35% range.

Don't buy into the 'it's an improved perception of the economy' stuff. People were distracted from it and defaulted to the views of their political demographic bloc about it, it wasn't the driver of the present blip. And no Bush/Republican polling ever has anything to do with Democrats, whatever they do or don't do. All Democrats really do in polling is convert Undecideds to Disapprove when they are effective, and Disapprovers to Undecided when they screw up.

So yes, we are powerless. But we're the heirs standing around with nothing to do as the political corpse of the GOP slows its pulse and breathing, jerks a bit and shrieks and raves, in convulsions and collapses. We can't pull the plug on it, The People has barred us from it and is jealously keeping that right to itself. And The People is taking its time about it, or hoping the thing abruptly expires on its own. We're doing all we can to get The People to set itself a, uh, deadline of next November.

I think it's unfair to demand of Democratic leaders to do magic. That's what all this "Empower Me! Now!" screaming amounts to. The People is simply not letting Democrats play on a field that is flat yet, it allows a massive tilt against us...and in due course, when it has used up the Republicans for its purposes, it will evidently make the two Parties switch sides of the field.

[radio4progressives]

46. hmm. interesting way to look at it...

So, my perception of potential window closing crises is something of a tempest in a teapot, and maybe i should go on vacation....

now there's a fantasy i haven't dared to entertain since Bush got into office! (well, that's a slight exaggeration ) ...

the notion there's nothing for dems to do but to sit it out until november, or the playing field levels out is hard for me to chew on.

i don't think dems will win, by sitting around and waiting it out.

it seems they have as much power as they exert, if only they would. if only to slow the machinary down to a grinding halt if necessary. like when Harry Reid shut down the Senate if for only a couple of hours. it was important to make a fuss that got attention - but now the pre-war intel investigation seems to have been stalled again - no word of it that i can see on the radar screen - granted there is the Abramonoff, Delay, Frist investigation results looming - and maybe a holiday break is in order.

when the MSM starts up with the fawning over the prez, and blatenly aiding and abetting him with his desperately needed face lift in the image department, it seems like precurser to a huge makeover, building up to the next state of the union address which we will all have to suffer through and another round of Social Security dismantling speeches.

I think it would be good to throw a monkey wrench in his propaganda machinery, pour sugar in the tank, and plug up that exhaust pipe - drain all the oil from the engine until he throws a rod.

sorry for the lame metaphors but it's late and i do appreciate your input, even if doesn't seem like it... :toast:

[Doctor_J]

48. Post of the week!

Well spaketh, Lex. My only quibble is that I thought hate radio would run its course, at least in terms of effectiveness, a few years back. Yet still they outnumber truth outlets by 100:1 or so, and in fact TV "News" has now joined the ranks of AM hucksters. Maybe their inability to pull Smirk, Delay, Santorum, and the rest of the GOP incompetents and sociopaths past 40% is in fact an indicator that they've lost some potency. I sure hope so, because if they keep reality at bay for much longer, the world is going to run out of patience with * and his enablers (meaning all of us) and then hell is coming to breakfast.

[petgoat]

50. 9/11 is the Mother Issue of 2006

If the MSM won't do honest retrospectives, we have to be
ready to do them ourselves.

Since 9/11 is the source of "fiscal ruin, endless war, and constitutional twilight"
it about covers all the bases.

PNAC wanted a New Pearl Harbor, and Bush's government ignored warnings from 11
countries and 3 FBI offices that 9/11 was coming.

And Bush's approvals went from 55% to 90%. And the Florida recount issue (Gore won!)
evaporated.

A guy named John Buchanan ran in the New Hampshire primary against Bush last year
on the 9/11 truth platform.

Here's a succinct and cogent speech:

http://septembereleventh.org/newsarchive/2004-01-07-buchanan.php

[Fovea]

51. Just watch

Sure, we have a few quisling Dem's, and some pink tutu Dem's, but we also have a Republican party leadership that will be residing in Leavenworth soon.

From here they might write a new version of Mien Kampf, but that is about it for the GOP.

[deutsey]

56. One day, when we have an opposition Party in this country,

it will be able to tap into and channel the growing dissatisfaction and disgust with the Bush junta into positive, constructive, and effective political action...and I'm talking about these feelings among former Bush supporters, not just those of us who have felt that way all along.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

57. it is hard for an agnostic to say "have faith" but there it is.

the truth will win out. Just today, Luskin announced that his "defense" of Rove has splintered. Or so he was quoted. That is GREAT news.
Fitz is spending 3 hours with the GJ today. I would no be surprised if there was paper being served by the end of the week.

[radio4progressives]

60. Today's News gives some hope..

raw story has revised the Duncan Hunter ties to DoD contractors and this very good, that bastard has done an enormous amount of harm --for his own personal gain in the name of so called patriotism.. he's just another
Californian "Dukster".. (thief, liar, thug)

http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Congressman_tied_to_contractors_bribery_coconspirators_1214.html

[cookiebird]

61. An indie

Please tell me what the Democratic party stands "For"?
I'm tired of hearing about the evil repugs--can figure that out for myself.
And please don't tell me that I "owe" others because I made some good choices--I made some bad ones, too, and dealt with the consequences with out starting a social movement. What is the view of the future from the Democrats' perspective. How will people be in a better circumstance? Just wanna know.

[radio4progressives]

62. And now today, Tweety bird is touting "rise in the polls"

but this is the way it's going to be until these freeks are finally frog marched or elected out of office.

it's a paralell universe we live...