Kucinich: let an Iraqi plebiscite determine when the US leaves

[eridani]

http://www.upi.com/SecurityTerrorism/view.php?StoryID=20051209-054810-1807r

WASHINGTON, Dec. 9 (UPI) -- Rep. Dennis Kucinich, D-Ohio, wants the Iraqis to decide whether the United States military should be withdrawn from Iraq.

"Congressman Kucinich believes that Iraq, as a free nation and a blossoming democracy, should have the right of self determination," said his spokesman Doug Gordon.

Kucinich is working on a resolution to be introduced on the floor of Congress "soon" that would make it the sense of Congress that the United States would support an Iraqi referendum on the future of the U.S. occupation of the country.

Kucinich "strongly believes that the Iraqi people cannot fully be free until decision made about their future are made in Baghdad and not Washington," said Gordon.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. As usual, DK has a good idea

And if Bushco is truly there to create a democracy, then a vote like this may be appropriate. My concern would be that the vote might be manipulated.

[Neil Lisst]

2. That's a GREAT idea. Let DEMOCRACY decide!!

I love it! Classic political judo. Let Bush's weight on democracy propel him into this option.

I'll drop my Kucinich cartoon here in honor.

[welshTerrier2]

3. this has to be a TWO STEP process

it's outrageous that the US Congress, including most or all of the Senate Dems, continue to make decisions about the US occupation of Iraq without demanding a referendum of the Iraqi people ... who the hell do they think they are? what clearer signal could there be than this to prove that they are condoning American imperialism?? we have no right to be there when the Iraqi people want us to leave ...

but it's important to highlight that Kucinich's proposal, which i agree with btw, has to be a TWO STEP process ...

the first step, and it should have happened concurrently with the December elections, should have been a referendum about whether the Iraqis want the American troops in THEIR COUNTRY to stay or go ...

if they vote us out, we should leave immediately ... however, if by some lapse in rationality, or perhaps a little ballot box tampering, the vote were to show Iraqis wanted to continue the US occupation of THEIR COUNTRY, then a SECOND STEP should occur ...

The SECOND STEP should be a referendum of the AMERICAN PEOPLE about whether the US stays in Iraq or leaves ... the Iraqis have every right to kick the US out if they don't want us in THEIR COUNTRY; they don't have a right to demand that we stay if we don't want to ...

I fully support Kucinich's call for a referendum of the Iraqi people as a FIRST STEP ... the US talks about democracy but practices hypocrisy instead ... there's no democracy when the people's voices aren't being heard ... one poll of the Iraqi people showed that 82% want the US out of their country and another poll showed that 45% of Iraqis think it's OK to kill their American occupiers ...

[zulchzulu]

4. Can't do it yet...Diebold machines need to be deployed first

Diebold does not have bomb-proof machines that can only be tampered with by Halliburton staff, so the idea is just plain too far in the future for America and Iraq.

:sarcasm:

[leftofthedial]

5. why is the guy with all the good ideas not in charge?

Actual Democracy. Who'dathunkit?

[Armstead]

6. Jeeze that makes too much sense

[goodhue]

7. Yay, Dennis!

:applause:

[tabasco]

8. If the Iraqis are allowed to decide their own fate ...

THE TERRORISTS WIN !!

[eridani]

9. Let's keep an eye out for the resolution--

--and demand that our congresscritters back it when it comes out.

[Don1]

10. Wait a second.

Here is what Kucinich said:
Kucinich "strongly believes that the Iraqi people cannot fully be free until decision made about their future are made in Baghdad and not Washington," said Gordon.

Shouldn't this choice be an Iraqi referendum rather than a Baghdad vote, meaning its parliament which was at least in some part propped up by Bush?

[eridani]

13. That's like speaking of American decisions--

--as being made in Washington.

[Don1]

14. I'm just trying to figure out whether Kucinich

supports an Iraqi referendum or is saying that the Iraqi Parliament should vote on it. These are two entirely separate ideas.

While a representative democracy is surely better than no democracy at all, a pure democracy is even better than both. And furthermore, the Parliament of Iraq in Baghdad is too tied to the Bush regime to reflect the people's interests earnestly.

Yes/No?

[Cocoa]

11. as long as the rejectionists don't get to vote

[AuntPatsy]

12. I don't agree, why should we allow a foriegn nation to decide the fate

of our soldiers by waiting on such a decree?

We obviously cannot trust those in high positions in Iraq at the present time simply because those in high places are nothing more than puppets for this administration..

Does one really believe the will of the people would be noted?

[Don1]

15. I am hoping he meant Iraqi referendum. n/t

[loyalsister]

16. Exactly what is needed!

"right of self determination" is the key phrase there. He is showing the Iraqis some respect.
It may be the first time I've heard anyone speak of them as adults.
He's right, if it's a Democracy let's not assume anything and let's not treat them like children. They can vote on whether or not they want us there.
I'm glad he's acknowledging this war isn't about us at this point. We are invested, but the decisions we make have to be about them, because we owe them.

[LWolf]

17. What???

Putting Democracy on the line by suggesting that members of Congress actually put it to work, both in the U.S. and Iraq?

:applause: :yourock: