Nobel Prize Winner: 'Bush & Blair Arraigned Before Inter' Criminal Court'

[Broadslidin]

In his lecture as winner of this year's
Nobel Prize For Literature received this September,

Harold Pinter has launched a scathing attack
on George W. Bush and Tony Blair.

Quoting from his speech:

he said politicians feel it is
"essential that people remain in ignorance,
that they live in ignorance of the truth,
even the truth of their own lives".

Since World War II, the U.S. government has
"supported and in many cases engendered
every right-wing military dictatorship in the world".
"I refer to Indonesia, Greece, Uruguay, Brazil, Paraguay,
Haiti, Turkey, the Philippines, Guatemala,
El Salvador and, of course, Chile."

(America) "has exercised a quite clinical manipulation
of power worldwide while masquerading as a
force for universal good."

He is calling for President Bush and Prime Minister Blair
to be
"Arraigned before the International Criminal Court of Justice".

And to watch a very intense portion of the lecture:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/4505874.stm

[tk2kewl]

1. link is 404

[Broadslidin]

Link Has Been Corrected......

Thanks

[jannyk]

7. Correct Link

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/4505874.stm

Wacko or not, he's one of the greatest playwrights that ever lived.

[Bushy Being Born]

2. Pinter is a whacko

He also wants Slobodan Milosevic released from the Hague.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

4. And shrub isn't. nt.

[ugarte]

6. You needn't agree with everything he says

There's no question he deserved the Nobel.

[Nederland]

9. Please

Most of the man's recent work is downright sophomoric.

[rman]

15. Which part of his speech is not true?

Isn't it interesting that the nay-sayers yet again engage in ad-hominems and erecting straw men, as opposed to dealing with the message.
We can't have serious debate on anything as long as you keep presenting logical fallacies. Why do you lot use RW debating tactics?


what's your opinion on this bit:

Since World War II, the U.S. government has
"supported and in many cases engendered
every right-wing military dictatorship in the world".
"I refer to Indonesia, Greece, Uruguay, Brazil, Paraguay,
Haiti, Turkey, the Philippines, Guatemala,
El Salvador and, of course, Chile."

[Tom Bombadil]

12. When did he say that?

[Bushy Being Born]

14. Oh, just in the same breath as expressing support for Castro

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinter%2C_Harold

Pinter is also an active delegate of the Cuba Solidarity Campaign, an organization that defends Cuba, is supportive of the government of Fidel Castro, and campaigns against the U.S. embargo on the country. He is a member of the International Committee to Defend Slobodan Milošević, an organization that appeals for the freedom of Slobodan Milošević.


http://www.icdsm.org/files/members.htm

MEMBERS, INTERNATIONAL COMMITTEE TO DEFEND SLOBODAN MILOSEVIC

10. Harold Pinter, Playwright, England


http://www.guardian.co.uk/yugo/article/0,2763,527546,00.html

Free Milosevic, says Pinter

"I believe his arrest and detention by the international criminal tribunal is unconstitutional, and goes against Yugoslav and international law. They have no right to try him," he said.

Pinter also says that if Mr Milosevic is to be tried, former US president Bill Clinton should join him in the dock for dropping millions of "cluster bombs that cut children to pieces from those brave bombers at 15,000ft.

[rman]

16. oh sure, the RW would have it Castro is a bad guy,

just like Chavez - for one simple reason: they don't want to play ball with the US (which amounts to the US confiscating the riches of not-so-wealthy nations).

[Bushy Being Born]

17. But Milosevic was the point here

You don't have anything to say about that? He's a 'bad guy' no matter how you look at it.

As for Castro, I've read enough threads here not to be surprised that there are liberals - or, at least folks who vote Democrat - who actually support him. Nothing I'm interested in starting another flame-war over.

[rman]

18. The issue was the speech by the nobel prize winner,

No flame war, but it shouldn't have to be a surprise that liberals don't vilify the same people that are vilified by the RW. You don't hear the RW about the high quality of education and healthcare in Cuba, nor about the fact that no-one there is starving - much unlike how it is in many wealthy nations.

on Milosovic: i don't know. But I have seen enough of the hearings to have doubts about the legitimacy of those trials.


Back to the issue:

Harold Pinter claims (as do many others) that

"Since World War II, the U.S. government has
"supported and in many cases engendered
every right-wing military dictatorship in the world".
"I refer to Indonesia, Greece, Uruguay, Brazil, Paraguay,
Haiti, Turkey, the Philippines, Guatemala,
El Salvador and, of course, Chile."

Is that correct ot not?

[Bushy Being Born]

22. Why yes,

but I can't reconcile that with him shilling for another dictator, and indirectly questioning the validity of the Hague, which is an important step towards the real ICC we all need. It makes me wonder if it's because Milosevic happened to be a socialist dictator instead of a right-wing one, and if Pinter's really more of a hypocrite rather than genuinely principled.

[rman]

23. Again you focus on the messenger instead of the message.

The issue is not whether or not Harold Pinter is a nice guy and whether or not anyone should be a fan of him.

Aside from that it's debatable just how much (and how bad) of a dictator Castro actually is. It's clear why the US govt doesn't like him - Castro is not a RW dictator who has the interests of the US at heart. Burma is run by a RW dictator who does have the interests of the US at heart - you never hear anything from the US government (or any other western government) about the situation there. Same with the ongoing genocide by the Indonesian govt in East Timor. Pinochet is another example that comes to mind.
If Castro is a dictator it is one who has the interests of the Cuban people at heart (bad, bad Castro).


But US foreign policies are what they are regardless of Castro and regardless of Pinter.

Part of which is that the US government to questions the validity of the ICC. In a different way though, basically they claim is doesn't apply to them - see the "The Hague Invasion Act", which Pinter actually mentioned in his speech.


If you compare the real atrocities of the US over the past half a century or so, to any alleged atrocities of Castro - seriously, which is the bigger issue? How many resource wars has Castro started, how many RW dictators and how many coups against progressive leaders has he ever supported?

[Bushy Being Born]

24. I'm sorry I even indirectly mentioned Castro

I had no intention or interest in debating his merits, or lack thereof. My gripe was about Milosevic. Also I think Pinter may have mistaken his literature award for the peace price, or surely he would've been more respectful to his hosts and actually devoted more than a 4th of his speech to the subject at hand.

[rman]

25. My gripe is about US foreign policies,

(which arguably is the topic of the opening post)

So, what do you think of US foreign policies (as expressed in the OP)?

Since World War II, the U.S. government has supported and in many cases engendered every right-wing military dictatorship in the world.
I refer to Indonesia, Greece, Uruguay, Brazil, Paraguay, Haiti, Turkey, the Philippines, Guatemala, El Salvador and, of course, Chile.

True or false? Good or bad?

[Bushy Being Born]

26. Ah, see, if that's your gripe

then you're better off putting your replies under the original post, and not under my perfectly valid question on whether support for Milosevic and contempt for the Hague shouldn't somehow play a role in judging the carachter of the person from whom it stems. It seems you and others turn a blind-eye to that little fact since much else he says are what we like to hear.

Well, the liberal party of Sweden (Folkpartiet) does not. A few of their representatives demonstrated outside the Academy in Stockholm yesterday for awarding the prize to someone who supports "a genocidal maniac" like Milosevic. One of them, a former Albanian refugee, has since received death threats for it and are now under police proteciton.

http://vlt.se/artikelmall.asp?version=174111

My apologies if you can't read the link; we can't all have a Swedish wife.

[leesa]

19. Many people share these opinions and there is a great deal of validity to

them.

[ugarte]

3. A wonderful writer and a great man

I'm so happy he won the Nobel. Hopefully, his health will let him stick around many more years.

[newscott]

5. You go Harold. Speak the truth.

[neweurope]

8. *kick* Everybody read his speech! I've saved it.

The first part is about his writing - if you're not interested, scroll down. The second part of the speech ist about politics and mainly about the US foreign policy. It's a MUST!

--------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[BlueIris]

10. It's worth saving.

Excellent.

[neweurope]

11. kick

[Monkey see Monkey Do]

13. He also mentioned the nicknamed "Hague Invasion Act" of 2002

Therefore it is just that Bush and Blair be arraigned before the International Criminal Court of Justice. But Bush has been clever. He has not ratified the International Criminal Court of Justice. Therefore if any American soldier or for that matter politician finds himself in the dock Bush has warned that he will send in the marines.

http://nobelprize.org/literature/laureates/2005/pinter-lecture-e.html

The "American Servicemembers Protection Act of 2002" actually legislates for the use of military force to liberate any American held by the court. Human Rights Watch nicknamed this the "Hague Invasion Act".

http://www.hrw.org/press/2002/08/aspa080302.htm

[rman]

20. kick for debate

on this not so insignificant issue that some seem intent on avoiding.


This is true or false, not depending on who says it:

Since World War II, the U.S. government has
"supported and in many cases engendered
every right-wing military dictatorship in the world".
"I refer to Indonesia, Greece, Uruguay, Brazil, Paraguay,
Haiti, Turkey, the Philippines, Guatemala,
El Salvador and, of course, Chile."

[apnu]

21. Pinter demands war crimes trial for Blair (another article)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1661531,00.html

Pinter demands war crimes trial for Blair

David Fickling
Wednesday December 7, 2005

The Nobel prize-winning playwright Harold Pinter has called for Tony Blair to be tried for war crimes, in his acceptance speech to the Nobel committee.

The 5,000-word speech excoriates the US government over Guantánamo Bay and its attempts to destabilise Nicaragua in the 1980s.

But he saves his most savage comments for the UK, described as "pathetic and supine" and a "bleating little lamb" tagging along behind the US in its support for the Iraq war.

"The invasion of Iraq was a bandit act, an act of blatant state terrorism demonstrating absolute contempt for the concept of international law," he said.

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