HE'S HOWARD THE COWARD "retreat and defeat strategy"

[papau]

Do Dean's comments that America can't win the war in Iraq show "a retreat and defeat strategy" on the part of the Democrats?
http://www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/59141.htm

HE'S HOWARD THE COWARD

By DEBORAH ORIN
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
December 7, 2005 -- WASHINGTON — Democratic Party chief Howard Dean has sparked a firestorm by claiming America can't win the Iraq war — taking flak from families of fallen soldiers, the White House, Republicans and even some fellow Democrats.
Republicans said Dean's remark — coupled with 2004 nominee John Kerry's weekend claim that U.S. troops are "terrorizing" Iraqis — shows Democrats have "a retreat and defeat strategy."

Dean touched off the furor by telling San Antonio radio station WOAI-AM: "The idea that we're going to win this war is an idea that, unfortunately, is...<snip>

[papau]

1. More from the GOP: HOWARD DEAN, DEFEATIST

DNC chairman for his "working overtime for a terrorist victory in Iraq."

http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/editorial/59102.htm

HOWARD DEAN, DEFEATIST


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
December 7, 2005 -- Not all the surrender monkeys live in France.
Take Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean — the sedition-mongering former governor of Vermont who once presumed to the presidency and who now is working overtime for a terrorist victory in Iraq.

Once the Democratic Party was led by men of vision and courage — men like Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Harry S Truman and John F. Kennedy. All were partisan pols to the core, but they knew the dangers of totalitarianism and reflexively rose above petty place-seeking to inspire America in times of peril. <snip>

[NYCGirl]

2. The NY Post is the worst kind of right wing asswipe that calls itself a

newspaper.

[papau]

6. I agree - but I thought I'd put all the comments in one thread!

:-)

[papau]

7. Bush Criticizes Dean for Iraq War Remarks

Hastert : " made it clear the Democratic Party sides with those who wish to surrender."

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-bush7dec07,1,3050355.story?coll=la-headlines-politics

Bush Criticizes Dean for Iraq War Remarks
GOP leaders take aim at the Democratic Party chairman after he says the idea the U.S. will win is 'just plain wrong.'
By Edwin Chen
Times Staff Writer

December 7, 2005

WASHINGTON — President Bush and other Republican leaders criticized Howard Dean, the Democratic Party chairman, Tuesday for suggesting in a radio interview that the United States could not win the war in Iraq.

"The idea that we're going to win this war is an idea that unfortunately is just plain wrong," Dean told San Antonio radio station WOAI-AM on Monday. He drew a parallel to Vietnam, saying officials had said victory in that war would come in "just another year, just stay the course … and it cost us 25,000 brave American soldiers in Vietnam, and I don't want to go down that road again."

Bush, who is trying to revive public support for the Iraq war, was asked about Dean's comments after meeting with Lee Jong-wook, director-general of the World Health Organization.

"Oh, there's pessimists, you know, and politicians who try to score points," the president replied. "Our troops need to know that the American people stand with them, and we have a strategy for victory."

House Speaker J. Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.) also weighed in, saying Dean had "made it clear the Democratic Party sides with those who wish to surrender."

And Ken Mehlman, the Republican Party chairman, told the San Antonio radio station Tuesday: "I can't remember any time in history where the leader of a national party, one of our two national parties, predicted that America would lose a war we were engaged in. I think it sends the wrong message to our troops, the wrong message to the enemy, the wrong message to the Iraqi people."<snip>

[napi21]

3. Send them a link to the audio of Dean's interview, then

tell them to eat their own words!

http://www.woai.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=C36A87B9-63A0-4CDE-AA91-B41571AFD3AF

[papau]

4. More: Dean doubts U.S. win in Iraq

Sen. Bill Nelson, a Florida Democrat who faces re-election next year, said: "The senator disagrees with Mr. Dean, and he also feels in regard to establishing a timetable for troop withdrawal that is not the way to go. ... At this point, the long-term national security interest are paramount issues, and cutting and running in Iraq is not the solution."



http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20051207-123327-9419r.htm

Dean doubts U.S. win in Iraq
By Rowan Scarborough and Donald Lambro
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
December 7, 2005


Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean has declared it "plain wrong" to think of achieving victory in Iraq, prompting President Bush, and some fellow Democrats, to flatly disagree.
"The idea that we're going to win the war in Iraq is an idea which is just plain wrong," Mr. Dean said Monday on WOAI Radio in San Antonio.
His stark opinion came after the White House released a 30-page "National Strategy for Victory in Iraq" last week and Republicans began accusing Democrats of becoming the "cut-and-run" party.
Mr. Dean likened the more than 2?-year war in Iraq to the 10-year Vietnam War. He also compared the administration's faulty intelligence on stocks of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq to the Watergate scandal that brought down President Nixon.
Republicans rolled out some big guns to rebut Mr. Dean, including Mr. Bush.
"I know we're going to win, and our troops need to hear, not only are they supportive, but that we have got a strategy that will win," he told reporters at the White House. "Oh, there's pessimists, you know, and politicians who try to score points."
Mr. Dean called for an immediate pullout of all National Guard and Reserve troops and then a full "redeployment" of remaining troops to an unnamed Middle East country and to the fight in Afghanistan. <snip>

[stray cat]

5. No surprise on the Republican spin of it.

We need the emphasis put on defining what winning and losing actually means. Hell if I know from the current debates.

[maxsolomon]

8. note to howard: we can't handle the truth!

waaa! we're little babies with fragile egos. if you tell us the truth, it will make us sad. if we're sad, we'll stop consuming energy, plastic chinese crap & industrialized food.

don't make us admit we're human! we're better than that; we're AMERICANS!

do i really need to add :sarcasm:?

[RubyDuby in GA]

13. I was just telling someone that we need to get the clip of Jack Nicholson

from A Few Good Men screaming "you want the truth - YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!" to play to the GOP everytime they start in on their crap of hurting the troops, blah blah blah.

[Voltaire]

20. Amen Max

A fucking men.

[Nitrogenica]

9. They are so easily deceived by these bad arguements.

Any good debater would see right through their deceptive tactics. Unfortunately right now righties love to deceive average people.

They don't have any other strategy, and leaves them very vunrerable to attack when average people figure out how the righties operate.

[RubyDuby in GA]

10. Yeah, some assclown from GA had to get in on the kicking too

The critics said that comment could reinforce popular perceptions that the party is weak on military matters and divert attention from the president's growing political problems on the war and other issues. "Dean's take on Iraq makes even less sense than the scream in Iowa: Both are uninformed and unhelpful," said Rep. Jim Marshall (D-Ga.), recalling Dean's famous election-night roar after stumbling in Iowa during his 2004 presidential bid.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10341418/


Nice huh? I wrote this jerk a somewhat not so nice letter:

Representative Marshall,

"Dean's take on Iraq makes even less sense than the scream in Iowa: Both are uninformed and unhelpful," said Rep. Jim Marshall (D-Ga.),

Sir, with all due respect, Governor Dean, the clear leader of my party, has been proven correct time and time again when everyone in the GOP owned so-called “liberal” media tried to paint him as a raving lunatic. For you to even bring up the “Dean Scream” of Iowa that has been exposed as a trick of sound coming from the microphones used that evening in a filled beyond capacity room full of screaming fans is beyond the pale. You should be more than ashamed of yourself and you owe Governor Dean and all Democrats in this nation an apology.

As for your ridiculous pro-war stance, I realize you are in danger of losing your seat because of the GOP drawn redistricting this year, but kowtowing to Republicans when even they are sick of watching their loved ones being shipped off to die for a lie is, for lack of a better word, stupid.

I am a member of the State Committee of the Democratic Party of Georgia. I volunteer all over this state to help get Democrats elected and you sir have just insured that I will work vigorously to see you retired at the end of your term.

And just so you know what honest to goodness Democrats all over this state are thinking (because I’m not one of the liberal elites of Atlanta), we don’t think Governor Dean’s comments yesterday concerning the unwinnable situation in Iraq are “uninformed and unhelpful” (as you said in article that I read on MSNBC.com), we think his comments were spot on. His comments don’t reinforce the popular perception that the party is weak on military matters. The party is weak because supposed Democrats like you refuse to look reality in the face. I’m shocked that with your service in Vietnam, which I thank you for, you can’t see that the United States’ presence in Iraq causes more harm than good. I’ve talked to numerous men and women who’ve come home from serving there and every single one of them tells the same story. It’s so bad over there that we cannot imagine it and it gets worse every day.

The only problem the Democratic Party has is it is far too lenient with it’s members like you who are so worried about losing their seats that they lose sight of the real issue – protecting the lives of the men and women of our armed services and protecting America from all enemies, both foreign and domestic – for that’s what the pro-war Republicans are: enemies who are weakening America from within. Get out of bed with them while you still can.




Rubyduby in GA
Somewhere, GA

p.s. Governor Dean isn’t the only one who doesn’t think we can win in Iraq – just ask President George W. Bush - August 31, 2004 NBC Today Show interview between Bush and Matt Lauer, speaking about Iraq: "I don't think you can win it," Mr. Bush replied. "But I think you can create conditions so that those who use terror as a tool are less acceptable in parts of the world."

[NYCGirl]

11. Wonderful letter! NT

[MODemocrat]

17. My, such desperation, I've never seen

Talk about grabbing at straws; anything to take the heat off our "great"
leaders. In reality, there are very few who believe the war can be won,
but the right start with the easy ones.

[Joe Chi Minh]

12. There! That's torn it! He's done it now! Howard has forfeited

the imprimatur, nay, the adulation and praise of the party they so minutely define as the party of the Chicken Hawks - the GOCC, Grand Old Chicken Hawk Coop.

Provision of adequate armour and reinstatement of the right of the military to have their votes counted would be a start, if the GOCC ever aspire to do more than talk support of a good fight.

[adigal]

14. I wish Deborah Orin would volunteer

her big butt and go over to Iraq and fight, since she is so obviously NOT a coward. How else could she call Howard a coward??

Another letter to the editor of the NY Post this afternoon.

[CarolNYC]

21. The Post is bad

And Deborah Orin is one of the worst...I used to write letters to them all of the time but they never published any...Wonder why...hmmmm....

What a waste of a paper....

[adigal]

15. Did you see Lieberman's Op-Ed there too???

This is my response, written to the NY Post, AND Lieberman's office.

As a newly minted Democrat, converted because of disgust over the lies told about WMDs and the personal, disgraceful attacks undertaken by Bush and his minions on John Kerry, a veteran who actually served as opposed to going AWOL as Bush did, Joe Lieberman's op-ed piece made me actually laugh out loud!! Lieberman wants bipartisanship on the war. Every single time the Democrats have tried to act in a bipartisan fashion, such as giving Bush the green light to use force against Saddam Hussein, they have been lied to and then later used and blamed, as Bush is blaming them now for supporting the war, falsely claiming that they had the same classified information that he had. Anyone with a modicum of knowledge knows that the President gets all of the classified information, while Congress gets only what the President and Vice President want them to get.

Joe Lieberman is no Democrat; he should switch to the Republican party, and do us all a favor.

Adigal
New York

[adigal]

16. Oops - here is the link to Lieberman's piece

http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/59092.htm

[TayTay]

18. Go get 'em Gov Dean

Obviously, he struck a nerve and they are coming after him to try and blunt any real discussion in the news media of what Gov Dean actually said. These Rethugs are so predictable. They are doing the same thing to Kerry and will do it to anyone else who threatens to break through the idiotic media din about Iraq and starts discussing real problems. The Rethugs and their media accomplices will try and use their old backups of 'these are hippie, anti-American, traitors' and such. Ahm, it's not working. Only the kool-aid drinkers believe this stuff anymore.

[Sparkly]

19. A sad quote from the article

Dean's remarks upset Robert Arciola. His son, Army Pfc. Michael Arciola, 20, of Elmsford, Westchester, was killed by a Ramadi sniper on Feb. 15.

"It makes me angry to hear people talk like this. It seems that the people who do all the yelling about the war don't have kids in the Army," he told The Post.

"My son believed in what he was doing. He told me he wanted to join right after 9/11 when he was in his junior year in high school. He was going to get even with them. If we pull out, we won't win."

Unbelievable.