White, Married with Children, attends church

[Neil Lisst]

Statistically speaking, what is this person politically in America?



Today's Neil Lisst political cartoon. It will be a contrast with a look at Republican leadership in Friday's cartoon.
=========================================

[win_in_06]

1. The most conservative person I've ever met is Black

believe it or not.

He is married with children and does attend church regularly though.

He is a freak.

[Neil Lisst]

2. Is his name "Alan Keyes or J.C. Watts?"

gotta be one or the other!

[win_in_06]

8. No, but he's one of those Project 21 guys. DC is full of them

[Neil Lisst]

9. I like to say there are only 4 black Republicans ...

Watts, Keyes, Powell, and Rice, but I know there are a number of younger blacks who have become neo-cons.

Speaking of which, Bamboozled is a great film.

[win_in_06]

41. I've run into a lot of them here in DC. They are everywhere.

[ultraist]

49. Mmmhmmm. Nearly 90% of Blacks voted for Kerry

"I've run into a lot of them here in DC. They are everywhere."

:eyes: Whatever, dude.

[BronxBoy]

58. What's Project 21? n/t

[Neil Lisst]

5. perhaps I could have a self-loathing black bear who votes PUB

I'd call him Alan Keyes!

[formernaderite]

14. me too...but he's not a republican

he's a democrat....although not liberal at all. There's more just like him too....they are still registered and voting democrats, but thank "god" they don't do much more than listen to their preacher who tells them who to vote for. One of my roofing subcontractors was a pentacostal black guy....religiously definitely a bit looney.

[Neil Lisst]

24. It's true that certain black churches are more conservative.

And therefore more likely to vote Republican, especially those that are really down on homosexuality and abortion.

But black conservative parishoners still have to be black 24/7, and that involves a lot of reminders that the Republican party is primarily a party of white people.

[formernaderite]

27. I disagree...they're not more likely to vote republican

that was my point. They are extremely conservative...but they are democrats. There are tons of these churches....and only 9% of blacks vote republican.

[Neil Lisst]

36. I said conservative black Christians are more likely to vote pub

than are other blacks, and that is true. The reason is the wedge issues I mentioned. But as I also stated, the experience of being black in America is usually a larger influence.

The 9-11% of blacks voting for Bush are mainly those who join him on religious tinged issues, like homosexual rights.

[ProudDad]

55. The irony is that

a large percentage of the piano and organ players I've known and played music with in black churches are flamboyantly homosexual.

Their moms wonder why they haven't married yet...

[FreedomAngel82]

34. Yes

If you can sometime watch the RNC convention from last year (if you can stand it) and than watch the DNC convention. You'll see the big differences.

[Neil Lisst]

37. The pubs have to make an effort to get blacks up front for TV.

And they love to drag out safer, older blacks who will be brought onstage to be shown off.

"SEE! We've got some!"
--- they might as well be saying

[snowbear]

3. Republicans aren't holier than thou.. they are fakes.

I know MANY more dirtbag Republicans than Democrats.

I don't think people should keep associating them as the church-going bible-reading party.

There's too many dirtballs in their party.

And besides.. what does that make us? Damned heathens? :evilgrin:

[Neil Lisst]

4. it's been widely reported ...

... that the average Republican is just that ... white, married, with kids, attends church regularly

We used the Bible because it contains both Christian and Jewish texts, thereby representing both religions. It's devoid of any indicators of either faith, however, purposefully.

We do not comment on their bona fides, only their practices.

This one is an important set up for Friday's cartoon, which finds Neil on Safari, stalking the Wild Republican Congress person.

to be continued ...

[spooky3]

10. one important distinction that must be made

I believe these findings are based on SELF-REPORTED characteristics (e.g., from survey data rather than observation of actual behavior). There is research showing that many people SAY they are regular church goers, but the numbers of people who actually attend church regularly are much lower. So the correct way of stating it is people who SAY they are married with kids, white, and regular church/synagogue/other place of worship attendees.

[Neil Lisst]

11. I think the data are solid on this point.

There are tens of millions of people in church every Sunday who vote for Bush and vote Republican. It's not an illusion or a supposition, and it's not based upon self-reporting.

Whether a person attends church regularly is a top indicator of how they will vote. 2/3 of those who attend church regularly WILL vote Republican, and most of those are WHITE.

[VaYallaDawg]

23. Thankfully I'm one of the exceptions.

I go to church (that doesn't make me any better nor any worse than anyone else, either) and I vote Democratic.

Regularly.

[Neil Lisst]

25. Yayyyyyyyy. So does my sister.

But I'm a back-slider. Always have been.

I like Jesus, but I don't care for the many who use him as a excuse for their theofascism.

[VaYallaDawg]

28. I've backslid so many times I'm not sure which way is up any more.

It seems to work for me, but I'd be the last person to try to push it off on somebody else. When the religious zealots start talking about Jesus as "personal savior" I think they forget that "personal" part. It's not something I feel compelled to impose on anybody else. In fact, I talk about it more on this board than I do anywhere else, probably - and that's because I feel I'm among like-minded people who give me the freedom to say what I want to.

So there!!

[Neil Lisst]

31. I walk on the premises, old women start casting out demons!

Heads spinning, parabolic vomiting.

Tubular bells.

[spooky3]

48. You're missing my point. My point is not to disagree with your first

sentence. The point is that while many church goers may support Bush, many people who CLAIM to go to church regularly also support Bush, but they are lying about their attendance. It is part of the hypocrisy that is characteristic of many Republicans. Check out the peer-reviewed social science literature on the question of the relationship between actual attendance and self-reported attendance, and you will find that this is a matter of demonstrated empirical fact.

Further, until you provide a link to BEHAVIORAL data, my other point, that I believe your assertions are based on survey (self-reported) data remains.

on edit:

check out this link, which provides an overview of this problem with self-reports of church attendance, but many other articles are available:

http://www.trincoll.edu/depts/csrpl/RIN%20Vol.1No.2/Church_lies_polling.htm

[ultraist]

52. Of course, most Repukes are white church goers

80% of voters are white and around 80% claim to be Christians.

Most Democrats are white Christians too.

[Jai4WKC08]

29. You ought to limit it to the Christian Bible

Something like 80% of Jews vote Democratic. Looked at the other way, of the total of Republican voters, only about couple tenths of a percent are Jewish.

We may be over-represented among high-profile neocons, but they are not representative of Jewish Americans as a whole.

[Neil Lisst]

30. True about the 80% vote for Dems, but ...

that doesn't impact the truth of the statement as made.

A cartoon is a snapshot of an idea. It can't cover the same territory prose does and it can't address every issue someone may have.

If papa bear was wearing a yarmulke, then you'd need to be worried.

[Jai4WKC08]

40. Oh, I understand. No problem there

Didn't even occur to me to be concerned until you made such a point of trying to tie it to both religions in the post I replied to.

Despite Wolfowitz, Feith and a few others who probably use the fundamentalist Christians for their non-religious objectives, you can't pin religious-right Republicanism on us Jews. It's a Christian phenomenon.

[Neil Lisst]

44. true dat, bro

And that is something I remind people of when the issue of Farrakhan comes up. Jews are an important part of the big tent coalition, and no one is Jew bashing on my watch.

We did think about it, and whether to add a cross, which would symbolize Christianity, but decided we didn't want that. To me, the cross is more a symbol of the Christian religion, whereas the Bible, especially including the Law and the Prophets, is much, much more than the Christian religion.

I like Jesus, but I find much, if not most, of Christianity anathema to the good rabbi's teachings.

[OneTwentyoNine]

6. LOL,yeah and you get guys like Delay,Abramoff,Cunningham etc,etc....

I can see where church REALLY made those thugs better people. What a farce,its just used as another campaign tool IMO.

[Neil Lisst]

7. You're getting ahead! That's Friday's cartoon!

You're not far from the mark on forecasting tomorrow's cartoon. In fact, it contains a thinly veiled reference to Tom DeLay.

Notice we said the typical pub VOTER in this cartoon.

This cartoon is based upon the media reports nationwide which have stated this message over and over. While I certainly don't think all those people are wonderful, some of them are just citizens doing what they think is right. They're our relatives, our friends, our business associates. In real life, we acknowledge that fact. Online, we all tend to become caricatures of ourselves.

[Neil Lisst]

22. well, actually, Friday's is about Republican congress persons!

those rat bastids!!

[Neil Lisst]

12. Barely legal! No clothes!!

[indigo32]

13. No offense meant

but, I really don't think we need to add to their paranoia that we hate all white male christians. I don't think we do. I know there is nothing inaccurate about your cartoon, but like I said, why feed the paranoia

[Neil Lisst]

15. None taken.

It's a political cartoon, not a primer for political correctness.

Whether it offends is up to the reader. Every cartoon I write offends someone. That is part of the purpose of an editorial cartoon. It's supposed to provoke a response, whether that is agreement, disagreement, rage, or laughter.

Adding to their paranoia? Maybe you should see what I said about Democrats the past two days. A political cartoon is supposed to make an accurate graphic prsentation of a fact or idea, and this one does that. These address the Al From side of the DLC, and the concern his presence raises among the "little guys and gals" in the party.




BTW, I've already heard from some religious types who love it. I expect it to be a favorite with Republicans, and I should know. My extended family has many of them.

We were mindful of your concerns, however, which is why there is nothing in the cartoon which maligns religion in any way.

This cartoon says the same thing every media outlet in America has said the past year or so: The typical Republican voter is white, married, and attends church regularly.

[Neil Lisst]

16. BTW, it's being used in a college curriculum - Free Speech

In the past month, Neil Lisst cartoon has been published at least once a week in a Cox newspaper, and referenced in at least 15 papers' editorial pages for its position on torture and maltreatment of prisoners of war.



The college prof tells me the right wingers are livid with the cartoon, and the editor of the paper is getting complaints. So, I must be doing what a political cartoon is supposed to do.

[indigo32]

17. That one is excellent

I'll bet it pissed them off LOL

[Neil Lisst]

18. Thanks. Take another look. I added two more!

Believe me, I was very cautious about the polar bear cartoon, because it is potentially enraging to people for reasons I don't want it to be. I do not believe in dumping on middle America's Christianity. But part of today's cartoon is to set up tomorrow's cartoon.

Tomorrow, I will examine anthropomorphically the Republican congress people elected by those good Republican voters. It won't be a bear praying, I can guaranfriggintee you that!

Next week, I'm teeing off on the independents. Dems and Pubs both will think they are funny. I'm not sure what Indies will think. I can't stand the fact that people who fall asleep for 46 months wake up in September every four years and say "HUH? What's going on?!"

That's not being independent, that's being DEPENDENT on media blitzes and marketing campaigns. If a person doesn't already know who they are voting for by September first, they aren't paying enough attention.

[indigo32]

19. cool

'I can't stand the fact who people who fall asleep for 46 months wake up in September every four years and say "HUH? What's going on?!"'

No kidding. I understand todays world is very busy, but I still think we have a great responsibility as citizens.

Looking forward to tomorrows toon :)

[Neil Lisst]

20. This is my pet peeve!! arrrrrggggggh!

Think of it this way.

The reason the political process has become consumed with getting millions together and spending it on TV is because there is a soft, malleable mass of middle voters who just don't know what they're going to do.

Their IGNORANCE is the foundation of the evil of campaign funding and spending. It is a disgrace, and their ignorance is what makes slick
TV ad campaigns successful. They get a verbal, visual 30 second massage from their gravel voiced TV commercial guy, and suddenly it's springtime in America!

Like I said, it's my pet peeve.

[Neil Lisst]

21. make a list of reprehensible animals, and you'll soon find them

You know cartoons have certain conventions, and mine are steeped in decades that reach from the early Looney Tunes to the Lion King and beyond.

I like to end the week snarky!!

We end our week on Friday. Five a week is enough. We did one every day for a month, and it dang near killed us.

[Warren DeMontague]

26. I'm two out of those three and I'm a Democrat.

of course, I don't see much reason to waste very much of my short time on this planet in 'church'.

[Neil Lisst]

33. I'm two of those, too. Where two or three are gathered together

on Sunday to watch a ball game, there I am also.

[FreedomAngel82]

32. So no blacks vote republican?

I thought they were a big tent? :shrug:

[Neil Lisst]

35. very few blacks vote Republican.

I don't recall the numbers, but seems it was about 9-11 percent in the 2004 election.

[mimitabby]

38. my relative

let's see; works in computers, has wife with 3 kids and another on the way. wants wife to homeschool because of the Oregon law (now thrown out) that allows gays to marry. he's afraid that his kids will be exposed to some of those people in those relationships.
Apparently he doesn't know that it's against the law again for gays to be married in his state.
I feel so sorry for the children because they will grow up with the same prejudices as their parents. Worse yet, the parents at least went to
public school. THese children will be clueless!!!

[Neil Lisst]

39. what is with these guys who act like gays are stalking them?

I can never understand these guys who act like gays are stalking them like prey. Something tells me their problem lurks within.

[JPZenger]

42. That Describes Me ... Except the Republican Part

[Neil Lisst]

43. fortunately for us, a sizable minority of the group vote Dem

Clearly, we are helped by both the Jewish vote and the liberal churches in Christianity, all of whom tend to lean Democratic. Unitarians, for example.

[brentspeak]

45. "A sizable minority"????

Half of all white, married, and church-going Americans, is more like it. If it's a "sizable minority", that minority would be about 49%.

[Neil Lisst]

46. Half of all white, married weekly church-going Americans are not ...

... voting Democratic.

The percent of white, married, weekly church going Americans who vote Republican are well over 50%, and the percent who vote Democratic well under 50%.

Close to half of all white, married, allegedly MONTHLY attending Americans voted Democratic. Of course, that's if we believe anyone who says they go once a month. We all know that really means 2-3 times a year when we're visiting relatives and have to go.

Go to church every week? You voted Republican by 2-1.

[brentspeak]

47. Looks like it's close to that ratio, but narrower than 2-1

Here are some tentative numbers for the 2000 election, using sampled exit polls. From them, it's hard to pin down exactly who the typical white, married, weekly church-going voted for. According to these numbers, roughly, it was 60:40 for Bush:Gore.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2000/epolls/US/P000.html

Those numbers seem to be duplicated almost exactly four years later. Here's CNN's numbers for 2004:

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/US/P/00/epolls.0.html

[Neil Lisst]

50. it's 2:1 Bush among twice or more to church weekly

no wonder he's praisin'

Those data confirm that the more one goes to church, the more one votes Republican. On average.

[spooky3]

51. and note that these are all self-reported data.

(and, many people question whether these data have been altered after the fact to correspond to the 2004 voting results--see all the election threads on this).

We have no way of knowing whether those people really do attend church weekly or whether they are simply saying they do because they want others to believe it about themselves.

[Neil Lisst]

53. perception IS reality. A political cartoon depends upon convention.

Here, the conventional wisdom is that church-going, hard-praying, bible toting whites in America fall into the R column.

Whether it has been proved empirically to your satisfaction is not the issue. It's a FACT as FACTS are created in the world of media perception.

[Neil Lisst]

54. Republican Congress persons ... new cartoon up at 11:45 PM

In 40 minutes, yall, the new cartoon goes up, the snarky finish of the week for our cartoon.

I hope you'll like it.

No praying polar bear this time!!
http://www.webcomicsnation.com/neillisst

In 40 minutes.

[snowbear]

56. Thank God and FAREWELL to the polar bears!

I love your cartoons Neil.

But not this one.

I think it sent the wrong message and I'm happy to see it fade into oblivion.

I'm sure your next one will rock though

[Neil Lisst]

57. Sorry you didn't like the praying polar bear. Glad you like this one.

One of my goals was to NOT offend those who are religious, but to contrast their behaviors with those they elect in congress.

I'm using couplets for this series. The first two were Tue and Wed and about Democrats, specifically the DLC v. the party activists who have a problem with the DLC. The next two were the polar bear and today's new cartoon about the pub congress persons. It's a contrast of the people who elect the pubs v. how those pubs behave once elected.

Next week we will continue the theme, but addressing independents, specifically, those in the middle who can't make up their minds because they haven't paid attention for 4 years. Again, a couplet. The first is the setup, the second the punch.

See, first the meerkats, then the snakes.

First the polar bears, then the hyenas.

Next week, first the bear ... aw, can't tell yet.