Amy Goodman and Frank Gaffney were just on "Hardball" on MSNBC

[Eric J in MN]

When I saw Gaffney, I was about to change the channel.

But then I saw Amy Goodman and watched. She wants a prompt departure of the US from Iraq (she cited killings at road checkpoints and white phosphorous in Fallujah).

Gaffney says we need to help the Iraqis build a democracy and that it won't be safe for pro-Democracy people in Iraq with the US gone.

Amy Goodman hosts Democracy Now

[sandnsea]

1. Fuck Amy Goodman

I am so sick of people like her who do nothing but repeat right wing bullshit which guarantees that the public won't hear any alternative at all. That was the worst debacle I have ever seen, it's pretty pathetic when Frank Gaffney makes more sense than a supposed liberal.

[Eric J in MN]

3. Do right-wingers talk about white phosphorous

and killing by the US military of civilians at checkpoints in Iraq?

What do you want the US to do regarding Iraq?

[sandnsea]

5. She didn't talk about it tonight

She didn't talk about the plans to get out of Iraq either, except to say there aren't any. You want to know why the Democratic Party has such a hard time getting traction or winning elections, look right directly at Amy Goodman.

[Eric J in MN]

17. She mentioned white phosphorous (nt)

nt

[ananda]

4. re Goodman

I understand she's also associated with Pacifica radio. Tweety took a hard dig at her through that connection. Ugghh.

What else. Tweety also took a hard dig at Dems in general, pointing out that it would be nice if they could speak out forcefully and stand up for what they believe in the way Reeps do. He said that people vote for Reeps because they, the Reeps, really believe in their message even if the people don't agree with it. What???

This must really say a great deal about the real values of Americans, meaning it's not -the- belief or policy that matters... it's the force and spine behind it.

Now that's truly scary.

[sandnsea]

7. I don't care about that

Everybody brings important things to the debate. But people who hate Democrats shouldn't pretend to align themselves with Democrats and then turn around and bash them. And NOBODY who says they care about getting out of Iraq should repeat the bullshit that Democrats have no plan because they're secretly hoping Democrats will die out so their own party can rise up. It's the sickest of partisanship and people are dying while they play their games.

[radio4progressives]

22. What are you talking about ? Amy doesn't align her self with Dems

She never pretended to be a loyal fan of the Dems and rarely if ever interviews any with the exception of members of the Congressional Black Caucus, i.e. John Conyers, Maxine Waters, Barbara Lee, & Cynthia McKinney.

She's a real progressive leftist who saw the hypocrisy of the DP early in the Clinton Administration - East Timour the watershed point when her eyes were made wide open wrt to US foreign policy no matter if it's the Neo Libs or the Neo Cons.


So you're anger is misplaced.

[sandnsea]

26. She allows herself to be used

She doesn't say that she is not a Democrat, but allows herself to be presented as one, over and over and over. She is either too stupid to know she's being used to obscure alternatives to the Republican agenda, or she doesn't care. Take your pick.

[rooboy]

37. Since when was Amy Goodman a friggin Democrat?

She's a damn good journalist. It's not her job to be an advocate. If you're so fucking smart, then call up MSNBC and offer yourself as a guest.

[sandnsea]

40. Do you watch these shows?

They bring on someone who more or less represents the Democrats and someone who more or less represents the Republicans. She shouldn't pretend to be in the Democratic category when she clearly isn't. And she really shouldn't bold faced lie when she knows why she's on the program.

[Eric J in MN]

58. She was on "Hardball" tonight to give a liberal point-of-view,

not to speak for the Democrats.

[sandnsea]

64. Really?

Who said that? This is Amy Goodman with a far left/liberal out of the mainstream point of view. I didn't hear anybody say that.

[mzmolly]

99. I agree with your larger point. They should have had a Democrat giving

the alternative view point. We basically had Republicans bashing dems and Goodman bashing from the other end.

I agreed with some of what she said, but I too questioned her as THE so called liberal spokesperson. That said, I don't blame HER for appearing on the show. I agree that she is allowing herself to be used, but I don't think she views her appearing in that manner.

[radio4progressives]

104. Far Left? hmm.. Taking a strong position against this war is Far Left?

I guess then 68% of Americans are FAR LEFT - but then that would make Amy part of the Mainstream.

[Talismom]

49. I totally agree with you radio4progressives! Amy Goodman is one of my

favorite people--a real progressive who does real investigative journalism and points out hypocrisy regardless of the party affiliation. I wish we had more like her in the world of journalism and in the government!

[radio4progressives]

35. She said that the Dems DISTANCED themselves from Murtha and it's TRUE n/t

[sandnsea]

38. Big Fat Lie

I have an email box full asking for letters and phone calls in support of Murtha. I saw Dems all over the tv supporting Murtha. And many saying it is good that we can begin talking about different strategies on how to get out of Iraq.

What I have NOT seen is anybody pointing to the fact that all the plans to get out are incredibly similar and that getting out is the main point of every Democratic plan. Instead, we get idiot head there saying there's no Democratic plan which leaves people left with nothing but Bush. People will support a bad plan before no plan.

[shance]

101. Oh please shut up.

Your railing about one of the few good journalists is nothing short of dispicable.

You want to criticize a journalist. Why not actually confront the ones who DESERVE it like Andrea Mitchell, Bob Woodward and Tim Russert, and oh yes Chris Matthews.

[LandOLincoln]

117. What's the matter? Truth hurt? What Sandnsea is saying is

dead on, and if you can't face that, then you have as much trouble with reality as your right wing fellow travelers.

[personman]

142. Perhaps you need to read them more carefully...

Most I've read so far support Murtha speaking his opinion, but make it quite clear they disagree with him.

All the dems say we should get out but they get REAL fussy when you try to ask them WHEN. Functioning on the assumption it's a mess that we can't improve without another 10 years of war, I say sooner rather then later. Why one more death? I'm passed the point where I will take seriously, any dems saying we shouldn't start pulling out now.

[Cha]

89. Dean didn't.

"In less than 72 hours, over 100,000 Americans responded to Republican attacks on decorated veteran and Democratic Congressman Jack Murtha, sending notes of support and encouragement as he sought a new way on the Republicans' failed Iraq policy. Here is a small sample from the notes submitted this weekend. Read More..."

http://www.dnc.org/

And if I could find our what happened to "bookmarks"..I would post the letter that Dean wrote in support of Congressman Jack Murtha.

Found it..

Dean: "Shame on Them"

"I want to tell you about John Murtha. He's a Democratic Congressman from Pennsylvania. He's also a combat veteran and retired Marine Corps colonel.

Murtha spent 37 years in Marine Corps, earned the Bronze Star, two purple hearts, the Vietnamese Cross of Gallantry, and the Navy Distinguished Service Medal. And for the last thirty years he's been one of the most respected voices in Congress on military issues -- universally respected by Democrats, Republicans and military brass alike.

Until now.

Republicans have disgraced themselves by viciously attacking John Murtha with such disrespect that not only veterans, but every decent American should be angry."



More at..
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=2261274

[Name removed]

72. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Wind Dancer]

87. I will second that! n/t

[LandOLincoln]

98. She's absolutely right. Goodman might as well be a Freeper--

or do you really think some perfect third party is going to rise from the ashes of the Democratic Party and elect Dennis Kucinich (a good, good man but in no way presidential timbre) CinC, with Goodman as his VP?

Tweety has Goodman on his farce of a program for a reason--and it ain't because he wants someone who will speak well and strongly for the Dems.

[radio4progressives]

29. I thought he was more fair with her than he generally is and I didn't hear

him dig at Pacifica radio , I thought it was great that he mentioned it at all.

[radio4progressives]

16. Amy does Right wing BS?

That's hilarious! You're ticked off that she appropriately criticizes the DP party leadership - Amy said OUT NOW and much as she was allowed to get her points made - she pointed to the reason why we need to get out now . Dem's DID distance themselves from Murtha, and we get these lame press reports or sound bites from certain DP leadership "don't agree" with Murtha.

What was your beef about Amy? Right Wing mantra? even broken clocks are correct twice a day, and sometimes even the right wingers make a point that is actually factual. they're mostly wrong about everything but when you have Hillary coming out with 'stay the course' and she's the DP '08 hopeful - Amy was spot on to go after the Dem's. The Dem's should NEVER have voted in favor of the Iraq resolution, the Patriot Act and a host of a very long list of outrageous actions that this administration has taken. They should have been an opposition party from the start following the theft of the 2000 elections, they should never have uttered the Orwellian vernacular that invokes fear in this so called "war on terra" - "After 9/11 everything changed" etc etc .

[sandnsea]

20. yes she does

Alot of people do. I don't have much use for any of them and haven't made it a secret. I generally don't post on various praise the idiots threads, but Amy was exceptionally idiotic tonight.

[radio4progressives]

27. I have my critisisims of Amy, I think she often not critical enough

and I can't stand the way she "moderates debates" - she just doesn't know how it should be done.

But as far as her performance on Hardball, I was pleased with her perfomrance given the restrictions.

[Name removed]

76. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sandnsea]

78. Bullshit

She is like that all the time. I am as sick of lies from the left as I am from the right. They're going to call this the age of unadulterated bullshit because that's all there is.

[Name removed]

79. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sandnsea]

81. I don't care about her regular program

I am not talking about that. I said she should stay off the cable programs if she's going to allow them to use her as a tool to portray the Democratic Party in disarray in order to pump up the right wing. I've said it ad nauseum so why don't you go get a brain transplant.

[0007]

82. Then you don't care about what's going on...no way she is pumping

up the right wing, so in reality you have no idea what your talking about other than the fact, she didn't please you tonight. Go soak it! If anything your little tantrum is what the right wing likes to see.

Arm Goodman is A-OK.

[sandnsea]

84. Did you read anything I wrote?

The real words, on the screen, in front of your face. For chrissake.

I have an idea. Go read Orin's interview, it's posted in either GDP or GD. Except for the line about troop withdrawal already being planned and the Democrats using it for a political strategy, Amy Goodman could have given the interview. And Orin is with the NY Post.

I don't care what she says on her own program, people who listen regularly know what they're listening to. I do care what she says to a national television audience who only see her sporadically and are left with the perception that she's another Democrat bashing Democrats. There is a difference.

[0007]

86. You fucking slay me, LOL!! Yeah, MSNBC is a national television

audience. Give me a fucking breaking. For chrissake FAUX news has more folks watching than MSNBC could hope.

Why don't you tune in on Amy's program on a regular basis and find out what she is all about. Instead of coming unglued and pissing folks off on this forum with your two for a nickle and one for a dime fucking bullshit.

And Orin is indeed with the program also, I guess, 'eh?

[sandnsea]

88. Delusion runs deep

If you think more people listen to Democracy Now than MSNBC, then I really can't help you.

Again, I don't care what Amy Goodman says on her program, that is not what I'm talking about.

And now the NY Post is our friend too.

Wow. Delusion.

[WatchWhatISay]

103. But she's not a Dem, never has been

She wants to giver HER point of view and if using Chris Matthews attempts to make the Democratic party look more liberal than it really is, that's what she's going to do. Its the only opportunity she gets to speak out and be heard on mainstream TV and shes not going to waste the opportunity.

The person you are really angry at is Matthews for always looking for someone to make the Dems look disorganized, split, radical, whatever.
And the person you are really frustrated with is the average American who doesn't have enough time to put into politics to figure out whats really going on here.

But if you were Amy, you would do exactly what she's doing because it's what she believes in.

[LandOLincoln]

111. Right again, Sandnsea. I only tuned in towards the end of

her segment, but it was immediately obvious she was doing Tweety's work for him.

[High Plains]

144. Yes, you have said it ad nauseum...

in a bizarre attack. Too bad Ms. Goodman doesn't echo your talking points. Better luck next time.

[Name removed]

83. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LandOLincoln]

100. I don't agree with her very often, but Sandnsea is absolutely

right about Goodman. Amy might as well be a Freeper--there're points where the far Left and the far Right meet, and she's one of 'em.

She's been doing Karl's work and spouting his talking points about Howard Dean and Wes Clark and other good Democrats for the past couple of years at least, and the only Dems she supports are good, good men like John Conyers and Dennis Kucinich--good, good men who BTW have ABSOLUTELY NO CHANCE WHATSOEVER of advancing much beyond their present positions, let alone being elected president.

I'm really sick of so-called "Progressives"--I hate that word, BTW, to me it represents yet another submission to the framing of the Reich--who are eager to join with the worst of the RW in their contempt and condemnation of Democrats.

[dennis4868]

108. Amy......

a freeper? Doing Karl's work? R U Serious? You crazy!

[LandOLincoln]

109. When Goodman and her cohorts like Scahill and Taibbi use

Karl's taking points against Democrats, then HOW ARE THEY NOT DOING KARL'S WORK?

You're damn straight they're Freepers--they're just freeping from the far left rather than the far right. As far as I'm concerned, there's not a dimes' worth of difference between the two extremes.

[depakid]

128. I hope more people hit them like that

It's the cowardice on the part of the Dems over this issue and countless other that open them up to criticsm. If they act like Republicans- and continually enable Republican policies- and vote with republicans- then they SHOULD be called on it.

Had people done this forcefully 11 years ago, instead of letting the DLC hijack the party, the Dems wouldn't be irrelevant in national today.

Someone needs to call a a spade a spade.

And, for once- I agree completely with tweety- people vote for Republicans because they stand for what people think are their principles (even if they don't agree with them).

The perception is that the Dems do not. And every time Biden and Lieberman go one these shows- it reinforces that perception.

Dems are going to lose AGAIN in 2006 unless they get a clue about this- and they don't have much time.

Personally, if I had the money, I'd bet that they sell everyone out over and over next year in the Senate- just like they did this year. In which case, they'll deserve to lose.

I've seen no indication that they intend to discipline the DINO's in their party and do otherwise.

[radio4progressives]

141. You laid it out perfectly. This IS the problem with the DP Leadership

None of us are referring to the few courageous who stand up on principle, who DID NOT vote in favor of the OBVIOUS LIE the so called Iraq resolution the Bushevics put to Congress to give him a blank check to invade and occupy Iraq.

Feingold and several others are the obvious exceptions to the elected DLC connected DP Officials in Congress who not only voted in favor of that evil resolution but have not been willing or able to state in clear, unambiguous language, that this war in Iraq was not only a failed policy but something that we need to extricate this nation from in terms of this invasion/occupation and ALL OTHER DOCTRINES OF PREEMPTION.

That's the Mainstream American CITIZENS, BELIEVE AND WANT TO HEAR LEADERSHIP STATE.

Instead, Clinton, Biden, Lieberman, Schumer and others "Disagree" with Murtha.

How freaking LAME can anyone be that is in position of power and accountable for conducting "business for America".

For christs sakes people - the reason why many of us have been pounding on this for weeks, months and years is because WE THE PEOPLE are DEMANDING IT.

If the DP Leadership are DEAF to our voices, then they don't deserve another term in office, they don't deserve to be praised or supported. Indeed, they deserve a resounding vote of NO CONFIDENCE!

For those of you hand wringing and kvetching about Amy's very limited critical remarks of the DP Leadership - all i can say is that there seems to be a serious level of apathy as to what the issue is here and what it has been for years, regarding this party.

It's not about party bashing - it's about the ISSUES, and the kinds of changes that has been needed for decades and are really embraced by MAINSTREAM AMERICA, as opposed to the "far left".

The opposition to the war in Iraq is NOT a "far left" position, at least not anymore.

[flordehinojos]

18. uh???

do we live in the same planet?

[sandnsea]

21. Probably not n/t

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

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[sandnsea]

36. And you?

In the scheme of things, she hasn't done anymore than I have. That's how useless she really is.

[fearnobush]

56. Do you listen to FSN and Democracy Now?

Because if you did, your opinion of Amy Goodman may be a bit different. And besides... This is the tweety, I love the GOP show. He always edits in the bad parts of the liberal guests. Sure, once in a while he'll give us a good show, but thats just to keep us watching. Ever wonder why Randi or Greg Palest is never on his show?

[Eric J in MN]

59. I think the interview with Amy Goodman was live.

Do you think it was pre-taped?

[Name removed]

90. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sandnsea]

91. It's not another spineless Dem bashing thread, is it?

No, it isn't. That's enough for me.

[0007]

92. cough, cough! I think some should have to wear a big "D" on their chest

just to let other's know things are cool here, 'eh?

[sandnsea]

95. I think

you don't give a shit about any of it.

[0007]

96. You think, LOL!

[LandOLincoln]

136. Clearly that's more than you're capable of doing. n/t

[lostnfound]

34. That is so offensive. You obviously don't listen to DemocracyNow ?

She does more for progressive than anyone in the country.

She keeps hundreds of thousands of people informed.

She is brave as hell, flying on airplanes with the Aristides right after the coup, getting in the middle of an Indonesian army attack of protestors..

She gives voice to the heroes of our day.

[sandnsea]

46. She should stick to her day job

And stay off the talk show circuit, that's all I'm saying.

[bpilgrim]

114. look who's talk'n

don't let your hate consume you

peace

[stillcool]

50. I have a suggestion for you...

if talking heads who don't stick to the party line offend you, than you probably should not be watching corpo-whores on televised news. What do you expect to get from that medium? And why are you surprised? No one is going to meet your expectations, so unless you want to lived pissed at the world, why not turn the agitator off? Amy Goodman may not be the end-all, but she's done some very good journalism...and not right-wing in the least. And Fallujah matters. Chemical weapons matter. War Crimes matter.

[LandOLincoln]

97. I 'm in total agreement with you, Sandnsea. I used to listen to

her religiously, but when she--and Jeremy Scahill, Matt Taibbi et al--started spouting Rovian talking points about Clark, Dean--everyone but the Kooch, IIRC--I turned her off and have never gone back. With "friends" like them... :wtf: :banghead:

[Andromeda]

106. That goes for me too.

Her appearance on Hardball didn't help the Democratic party in the least. It just reinforced the meme that Dems are useless and have no vision and no ideas.

I don't know if Goodman is a Democrat or not but how are the Dems going to get any traction if cable shows like Hardball consistently use people like her as a representative for the Left.

[personman]

138. and Fuck Justice Too!

Please, she is left enough most dems look like neocons in comparison, and when she says too many democrats are acting like republicans it's because it's true. I have never heard her "repeat right-wing bullshit", I HAVE heard her call out right-wing bullshit when people who claim to be dems push it, and that is exactly what she did.

She isn't a democrat...she's what democrats would be if they stood up for their beliefs and didn't roll over to enable the neocons.

Stop swiftboating one of the good ones.

[LandOLincoln]

143. Funny you should accuse us of "swiftboating one of the good ones"

because that's exactly what Goodman and crew did to several of the "good ones"* on her radio show (which I had listened to for years, BTW) during the primaries.

*Clark and Dean are the two that come most quickly to mind. I think they both qualify as "good ones," do you disagree?

[stray cat]

2. I was really disappointed with Goodman

She would be a welcome addition for Fox. A dem who hates the dems more than she does the repubs.

[sandnsea]

10. She's not a Dem

I don't know what she is, but she isn't a Dem and we shouldn't let her get away with going on programs and representing herself as if she is.

[stray cat]

12. That explains alot - I didn't know that. Thanks!

[ClassWarrior]

19. She's a real journalist. God bless her.

But you make sure she doesn't get away with it.

NGU.

[sandnsea]

23. She's a terrible pundit

If she's going to go on political shows, the first thing out of her mouth ought to be the fact that she is not a Democrat and in no way speaks for the Democratic Party. That's my only real beef with Amy Goodman.

[radio4progressives]

39. I totally disagree. I'm sick to death of mealy mouthed shills for both

parties. and anyway, the issue was the efficacy of this evil war in Iraq, and you said you don't care about the white phosphorous? then you missed the entire point of that interview.

She makes the best anti-war "pundit" than anyone else that i've seen so far.

[sandnsea]

41. She's a shill

That's my whole point. She's just another fucking shill who pretends to be something different. She's not. She has her on political agenda too.

This isn't about white phosphorous and I'm not even going there.

[Eric J in MN]

60. A shill for whom?

nt

[sandnsea]

62. Interesting question

Who is funding the far left pundits who are always right there to beat the hell out of the Democrats any time they get a little traction on an issue? It's a puzzlement.

[Eric J in MN]

67. Is her book, "The Exception to the Rulers: Exposing Oily Politicians,

War Profiteers, and the Media That Love Them" promoted on Fox News and the Rush Limbuaugh Show? No.

If she were a darling of the right, it would be.

[sandnsea]

73. That would be too easy n/t

[G_j]

68. funding??

Democracy Now! runs on DONATIONS. I suppose you are implying that those listener donations are from Rs???

Why the hell people expect all leftists to kiss D ass is beyond me.

[sandnsea]

74. Just tell the truth

That's all I expect. I haven't looked into Democracy Now's books, have you?

[WatchWhatISay]

118. If all you are expecting is the truth

Don't you get disappointed by the Dems without spines pretty often? Lots of them knew exactly what was going on when they voted for the IWR, they just didn't think they could vote no and get re-elected.

[LandOLincoln]

116. I expect a lot of donations are from the more politically

astute right wingers. Why wouldn't they donate to someone who's-- happily and with malice aforethought--doing their work for them?

[High Plains]

146. Please, you guys, get back on your medications.

[Don Claybrook]

102. Mark this spot. This is where you went over the cliff

I completely disagree with just about everything you said to this point, but the post I'm responding to is the one where you kind of went off the deep end, in my opinion.

The accusation that someone who is clearly much more liberal or progressive than you are is employed by the GOP is a step too far. This of course calls into question your credibility on this issue, since the claim is outlandish and obviously not based on anything resembling reality.

[LandOLincoln]

112. Get a grip. Goodman is certainly not "employed" by the GOP

in the sense you mean, in that she's paid by them to echo their own talking points against Democrats, but she is certainly allowing herself to be used by them for that purpose--and for free.

Do you disagree that the destruction of the Democratic Party is the stated goal of both the far Right and the far Left?

[ProudDad]

125. I've been listening to Goodman for nearly 2 decades now

and I've NEVER heard her "spout rovian talking points".

You seem to be basing your whole argument on one appearance where she's set up by the host to be the token "leftie".

How many Dems voted for that f*ckin' "bankruptcy bill", the Patriot act, bush war powers, etc. etc. etc. It's time for progressive values to triumph, not Dem or Republican...

Amy's point of view is very clear to anyone who knows her work. She's a Progressive! Any Dem who isn't progressive (and there are MANY of them) gets hammered by her. Any repuke, any Green, any one who is not progressive gets hammered by her.

Anyone who doesn't know the truths about the rape and pillage being perpetrated by the right-wing repukes and their Dem fellow-travelers is bound to be disturbed by Ms. Goodman.

[LandOLincoln]

129. Excuse me? I most certainly did not base my opinion

on her Hardball appearance--of which I only caught a minute or so in any case.

I base my opinion on hours of listening her hammer the Democratic primary candidates in 2003 and 2004, often parroting Karl's talking points to do so.

[mom cat]

66. And just what have you done that is so superior to Amy? If you are so

uninformed to call her a right-winger, then there is probably no hope of educating you.

[sandnsea]

75. One thing

I haven't gone on talk shows and repeated right wing talking points, or repeated them anywhere else, I can tell you that.

[radio4progressives]

32. She didn't represent her self as a Dem! She would never do that.

I know her personally. It's not something that happened today on HB or any other time, on or off the air.

[sandnsea]

42. Good

Then tell her when she goes on these programs she needs to clarify that she is not and never has been a Democrat, right out of the gate, so people know there are leftists who are not associated with the Democratic Party in any way shape or form.

[ClassWarrior]

53. Sieg heil!

NGU.

[sandnsea]

55. Honesty is now nazism

Terrific.

[ClassWarrior]

57. No, forced loyalty oaths are.

But you knew what I meant.

NGU.

[sandnsea]

61. Who wants a loyalty oath?

I want her to be clear that she is NOT a Democrat, what kind of loyalty oath is that? She's not a Democrat, that's a fact. It would be nice if she told the truth too, but she's entitled to lie right along with the rest of the newsmodels.

[ClassWarrior]

65. I don't know about anyone else but that sounds pretty creepy to me.

I mean, one can make an arguement for Bill Schneider disclosing his connection to AEI, or Pete Williams disclosing that he worked for - whose? Cheney's? - campaign. But to demand that someone disclose that they're not affiliated with a particular group? That sounds a little bizarre and and just a touch jackbooted to me.

By the way, do you have any proof that she told a lie? If so, I'd like to hear it.

NGU.

[sandnsea]

77. Big Fat Lie

You can start there.

Ron Reagan says he's not a Democrat all the time, regularly. What's so wrong with expecting others on the left to do the same??

[WatchWhatISay]

119. "I am not now and never have been

a memeber of the Democratic Party" said Amy Goodman.

I have heard her say words to this effect, on Chris Matthews, before.

[LandOLincoln]

113. Excellent point. n/t

[G_j]

47. that is simply false

I watched it too, she did not represent herself as Democrat.
Hate all you want but why make shit up?

[sandnsea]

54. That's why she's there

Are you telling me that she's too stupid to know that? She's there to make the Democratic Party look in disarray, that's her only purpose on that show. By not identifying herself, she allows herself to be used.

[G_j]

63. was she intoduced as a Dem?

No she wasn't.

[High Plains]

145. I don't think she has ever done that...

but she is free to speak her mind. Insinuating that she is a right-winger or carries water for Rove because she criticizes Dems is simply absurd.

[Eric J in MN]

14. Fox News doesn't want people talking about

white phosphorous.

[Talismom]

51. I've always voted dem. but truthfully, sometimes, as a party, they could

use a good swift kick in the collective ass and I'm grateful to commentators like her!

[LandOLincoln]

110. She's not a Democrat, but I agree that she seems to hate

Democrats more than Republicans. Not too surprising, when you remember that the far Left and the far Right have the same stated goal: the destruction of the Democratic Party.

[ProudDad]

127. Frankly, those of us on the far-left

don't give a sh*t what you call yourselves -- Democrat or Republican or Constitution Party or Libertarian or American Independent.

We care about how people are treated. We care about fairness and Justice for ALL people. We care about treating the Earth like a home rather than a land fill.

You're the one getting your panties in a twist about a perceived slight :)

[LandOLincoln]

130. Get down off your high horse, mister, and lose the

holier-than-thou attitude. I'm a union member and have voted Democratic my entire life. I am a proud Liberal, and refuse to buy into the demonization of that word by self-described "Conservatives" AND BY self-described "Progressives."

By the way, I see you've spoken favorably about Wesley Clark on another thread. Are you aware that Goodman, Taibbi and Scahill engaged in extensive Clark-bashing on Democracy Now, including--but certainly not limited to--questioning whether his Silver Star and Purple Heart(s) were rightfully won? To put it bluntly, they swiftboated him--and you question whether they've ever used Rovian talking points??

Oh please...

[dogman]

6. That's what Tweety thrives on.

Extremes mean ratings.

[Nimrod2005]

9. His ratings suck, big time!!!

He gets more air time than many people on TV, but his show only draws about 300K a night, no good.

[dogman]

13. Cable talk show ratings suck.

He's GEs golden haired boy. What do they have bigger? Russert. If not for KO they would be intolerable.

[Eric J in MN]

71. "The O'Reilly Factor" and "Hannity and Colmes" sometimes

get 3 million viewers each in a night.

[dogman]

80. They are Faux.

I'm not sure but I don't think they've reached those numbers since their blue dress coverage.

[Eric J in MN]

93. On Monday night, "The O'Reilly Factor" had 2.2 million viewers

for the primetime brodcast.

Sometimes it does better.

http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/ratings/the_scoreboard_monday_nov_21_28549.asp

[Eric J in MN]

69. He's been getting better ratings recently than Joe Scarborough

or Tucker Carlson.

At least the last time I checked.

[Nimrod2005]

107. True, but Scarborough and Tucker need to be fired...

Their shows are declared failure...

[MrTriumph]

8. In fairness, her disparagement of Dem. con. leaders is not new

Hey, it has taken way too long for Dem. leaders to question the Republicans.

And even now they are too quick to curb their criticism with niceties.

[sandnsea]

11. Because Amy told you so n/t

[MrTriumph]

24. We have been saying this on DU for 5 years

And we are still right.

[sandnsea]

33. Yeah, I've seen

"hey, the Dems grew a spine" and then a week later, "where's the spine" and then a week later "the Dems grew a spine" and on and on and on... idiotic blather.

[radio4progressives]

43. what crap this is. You seem to want undeserved praises for Dems

what's the point in that? Reminds of the same thing the repukes engage in. screw that.

[sandnsea]

45. Honesty

What's so friggin' hard about honesty? There are a variety of views on the war within the Democratic Party and that isn't a bad thing. Why does she think that in order for the Democratic Party to have a valid view it has to be HER view? That would seem to be wanting a lock step party to me.

[dogman]

She's been proven wrong on items and just keeps on shilling.

Facts aren't important if they interfere with her message. You see it is only honorable to disagree with Dems not the pure ones.

[Eric J in MN]

70. What was Amy Goodman proven wrong about? (nt)

nt

[dogman]

94. Her declarations about International Law.

International courts have found otherwise. Those might be her opinions, they are not facts.

[lostnfound]

105. Here's some honesty.

Why do you think that in order for her to have a valid view it has to be the 100% DEMOCRATIC view? She has a mind of her own. She gives airtime to people who need to be heard. Her show is very important in shaping the views of hundreds of thousands of people in 'the choir'. Her show covers so many vitally important things -- the prison system, water privatization, homelessness, war profiteering, torture, CIA-backed coups, globalization. Her show has motivated me and dozens of my friends to get far more active politically.

She works extremely hard. She is NOT a shill and frankly it is ridiculous to say so. Maybe she's not the best choice for Hardball. But when she criticizes Democrats on TV, she usually does it from the left, which helps push the dialog in the country leftward which can only be good for us. At least, for those of us who have noticed that the political spectrum has moved very far to the right over the last 25 years.

[Name removed]

121. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LandOLincoln]

123. I listened to Amy Goodman for years--from your tone and

your amazing political accuity, probably for more years than you've been alive--and only stopped when she and her henchmen started carrying water for Karl, using the exact same talking points for the exact same reason.

For the umpteenth time: do you disagree that the stated aim of the far Right and the far Left is the destruction of the Democratic Party? Yes or no?

[Name removed]

131. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

132. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[0007]

139. See 'ya on the late shift!

[LandOLincoln]

137. Why don't you try answering my "foolish question"

instead of flinging your silly, childish insults?

[sandnsea]

124. Last time

1. She reports on things no one else touches, she deserves credit for that. She does that on her program. Bravo. I'm not talking about her program.
2. Even within her reporting though, she interjects her pesonal views or allows her views to distort the facts. When she said Democrats have no plan on Iraq, she did that. Just because the Democrats do not agree with HER view on Iraq, it does not mean the Democrats have no plan. That is bad journalism and she is not alone in that.
3. When she goes on programs and is presented as a political pundit, and the perception is that she represents Democrats, she should clarify that she does not represent Democrats before she attacks Democrats. Because otherwise, she is just a tool that keeps the real Democratic message off the air.

This is the problem I have with Amy Goodman. I know who she is and what her political views are, not my bone of contention. Most of America don't know who she is and presume she's just another malcontented Democrat.

The far left would be in a much better position if they separated themselves distinctly as well. Then America would see a clear difference between the far left and Democrats. But if they want America to ONLY see the far left and Repubicans, then the country will go to the Republicans over and over because America is not and never will be far left. We'll just keep sliding further and further right because no other choice is presented. That's the problem I have with Amy Goodman. We have been losing the clear choice out of Iraq because of mouthpieces like her and it's about to happen again. OR, the Republicans will get credit for it because Amy Goodman just said the Democrats have no plan.

Get it?

[LandOLincoln]

140. Bravo, sandnsea. Couldn't have said it better myself. n/t

[Wind Dancer]

15. Amy Goodman is an independent journalist.

If you watch her daily, she's far more critical of the GOP. She has exposed more crimes committed by this administration on Democracy Now than any corporate owned media prostitute.

Many people want this war to end now regardless of party affiliation. She is one of them.

[Talismom]

52. Right on FrustratedDem! Her show is one of the greatest news sources

available today. Her interviews are amazing!

[Wind Dancer]

85. She asks tough questions AND allows the other side to answer.

Talismom, be sure to watch her show re: The Rendon Group - it's a real eye opener.

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/11/21/1516257

"Investigative journalist James Bamford examines how the Bush administration and Iraqi National Congress used the PR firm Rendon Group to feed journalists - including Judith Miller -- fabricated stories in an effort to sell the war. The firm has received millions in government contracts since 1991 when it was by the CIA to help "create the conditions for the removal of Hussein from power." Iraq wasn't the first regime change case for Rendon. In 1989 the CIA turned to Rendon to use a variety of campaign and psychological techniques in Panama to put the CIA's choice, Guillermo Endara, into the presidential palace to replace Gen. Manuel Noriega."

[flordehinojos]

25. i saw the tail end of it when hardball was on earlier this afternoon.

i thought AMY GOODMAN was making very good points about bush, the war in iraq, the spineless democrats and the need for democrats to develop a spine to standup to bush...she was clearly pointing out how kerry, and clinton and others in the democratic party would still not leave iraq when the situation there is begging for us to leave iraq... and when loud mouth tweety interrupted the good points she was making so he could tell the world just how angry he is about monday morning quarter backs like colin powell and his aide, etc., etc., and brought gaffney in and gaffney said that (paraphrasing) america needs to stay the course, or otherwise there would be chaos and hell to pay there, amy goodman, through tweety's shouting and gaffney's lying, was heard saying, "isn't that what is happening there now"...or something very similar to that which tweety's loud mouthing practically drowned out. and then, he had to blow a final fart onto goodman's face when he said, "you are very wise when you talk about the democrats"



as FLO used to say. TWEETY, KISS MY GRITS!

[sandnsea]

30. They were all lying

It was one big spew of bullshit. Kerry's and Hillary's views on Iraq have always been completely different. It hasn't served her political agenda to say so.

[flordehinojos]

31. i think we are still living in a different planet.

[sandnsea]

44. Yep

I bet you think Murtha has an immediate withdrawal plan, don't you?

[flordehinojos]

48. HE OUGHT TO, IF HE DOESN'T.

[LandOLincoln]

115. Exactly--and that's why he has her on. He knows--and so does she--

"you are very wise when you talk about the democrats"

that most of his viewers will assume that she IS a Democrat, and will further assume she is living proof that the Party is in complete disarray, doesn't have a spine, blah blah.

She's much too astute politically NOT to understand that she's being used by the right wing, ergo one's forced to assume that she simply doesn't care.

Finally, I ask once again: do any of you dispute that the destruction of the Democratic Party is the stated goal of both the far Right and the far Left?

[WatchWhatISay]

120. Maybe the Democratic Party in its unfortunate recent form, yes

They are finally making some progress in standing up for themselves, but it has been a long time coming and has a long way to go.

Maybe she feels more loyalty to the democatic ideals that our this country is supposed to be about than loyalty to a political party.

[LandOLincoln]

122. I see you have a Dean avatar. Are you okay with her trashing of

Howard Dean? and if so, how does that advance the Democratic Party, of which Howard Dean is currently the chair?

[WatchWhatISay]

134. I don't see everyone in the Party as a problem

so, no, I have no problem with Dean and several others. But nobody gets my blind loyalty, they have to earn it.

[ProudDad]

126. Uh, since the right-wing owns the mass media

how the f*ck to you expect ANY voice from the left to be heard unless it's accompanied by ulterior motives?

[LandOLincoln]

135. What are you trying to say? That it's all right for

her to allow herself to be used by the Right to discredit Democrats since that's the only way she can get her face on television?

[depakid]

133. The DINO's have pretty much taken care of the destruction

of the party themselves- if you care to look at the evidence do the analysis of the last 6 elections, that is.

Pointing fingers at Amy Goodman seems pretty frivolous, considering that the Dems have shown themselves repeatedly to be quite capable of enabling the far right on their own. Hell, they do it every time Lierbman or Biden or some other simpering weasel shows up on the Sunday "talk" shows.

As to her being living proof that the Dems don't have a spine- LOL- have you been Rip van Winkle the past 5 years? It might be one thing if the Dems actually HAD stood up, gone toe to toe and fought for something- and gone down in flames. But that ain't been the case....

[ncrainbowgrrl]

147. ENOUGH!!

This thread has become such a flamewar that it's hard to find any sign of the original discussion. As such, there is no reason to keep this thread open.

Thank you for your time!