What if those who did not serve, did

[BOSSHOG]

Where would we be today if bush had served honorably, flown a jet in NAM, got shot down, was injured and rescued; if cheney had served in some capacity; if wolfowitz & perle had faced enemy fire in NAM; if limbaugh & hannity had to carry dead teammates through a combat zone to a medevac; if those who say they value life at cocktail parties saw death on the battlefield; if frist had to perform autopsies and medical procedures at a MASH; if delay had to drag dead airmen out of a blown up barracks in saudi arabia; if oreilly had to escort supply trucks through fallujah at midnight; if hastert & mclellan had to knock on a hundred doors and tell mothers their sons had died in combat; if britt hume had to tend to soldiers who had lost arms and legs at a makeshift hospital in irag. Where would we be today. Please God, tell me where would we be?

God Bless you Representative Murtha.

[liberal N proud]

1. With the bu$h co. it would not have changed anything.

They have an agenda and don't care about those who server because most of those who serve are not from their social class anyway.

[shenmue]

3. Exactly

People like them don't respect anybody. I doubt they would have learned anything, only increased their contempt for 'peasants' like the rest of us.

[July]

9. Yes, let's not forget the Smear Boat Vets.

Ideology trumps reality for them.

[acmejack]

2. At peace

Boss, we both know if these jerks had any time at all in the real military, they would be the last to want to go to war, instead of the first. But don't forget, they are better than that, the service is for losers (like us).

[MADem]

4. They would not have their jobs, most likely...and they'd probably

have voted for Kerry in 04!

I'm with you--Murtha did a good thing.

[Mend]

5. like Eisenhower, they would have been republicans good to

big business but against any more war and would have played golf on the White House lawn. I could have lived with that, not liked it, but lived with it.

[pecwae]

6. It may have made a difference, who knows.

But, since those people named have no honor, every one of them should be required to volunteer at VA hospitals. There they can witness firsthand the fruits of their actions.

They can bathe quadruple amputees and see to their personal care and toilet functions. They can sit with the dying whose families have dumped them on the VA doorstep when it got too inconvenient to care for the vet (not everyone is fortunate enough to have families to see them through infirmity). They can try to calm a vet in the throes of a PTSD psychotic episode. They can tell a vet s/he's being consumed by disease brought on by exposure to DU and advise them not to have children and not to make too many plans for the future. They can tell a vet s/he's not going to receive service connected compensation because the VA has determined the military isn't responsibile for their mental or physical health problems or that even though the military is responsible, the illness or injury just isn't bad enough. They can tell the vet they won't properly medicate the physical pain caused by his/her limbs being shattered or blown off because it can't possibly hurt that much and they might get addicted to 5/500 hydrocodone/APAP (VA drug of choice for pain control)and use of pain pills is much worse than just toughing out the pain.

But they won't do any of those things. The people you mentioned don't give a shit about troops or vets.

Indeed, blessings be on Rep. Murtha; one who knows.

[erpowers]

7. Murtha

I am not trying to bash Murtha and I support and respect his service in Vietnam and I am happy he has come out against the war. However, Murtha was a big support of the war. In addition, if we do not accept the idea that Bush and the gang stole the 2004 election it could be that Murtha helped Bush and Cheney win.

It is sad and wrong what Scott McCellen did to Murtha after he came out against the war. Democrats and the media should hold McCellen to account for what he said about Murtha. These latest comments by McCellen prove once again that the Bush Administration does not care one bit about the men and women who fought in the military.

[No Exit]

8. With a little luck,

at least a few of them might just be fond, tearful, memories for their families...

[TallahasseeGrannie]

10. BOSS

I've seen that list of who served and who didn't and it is very eye opening. (don't have a link, but most of us have seen it.) Very few Republicans served. There are exceptions of note, like Bush I, Dole, McCain. But in general, very few.

The Dems, who are traditionally much less hawkish, served in greater numbers. Is it perhaps because once you have been in battle you are therefore hesitant to start that sort of thing up, to put more kids in harm's way?

I am pragmatic enough not to buy the usual Repubs are cowards slogans; men are men. But maybe they feel they have to "prove" their manliness indirectly?

Just a thought.... from a woman who has never held a gun.

[BOSSHOG]

11. Good Morning

Here is a link to the info:

http://www.ostroyreport.blogspot.com/#111505A

I believe experience is an outstanding teacher. If you serve in uniform and see some things that might happen around you, you can make a human contact, you know human beings are effected. Conservatives in Washington who have never served can't do that. Our kids in uniform are chess pieces they can play with. I believe we should think twice, three times, four times, then ask for advice before ever contemplating send one of our kids in harm's way. The only contemplation bush had was whether he could get away with a lie. I'm very pro military, as is Rep Murtha but you have to use it right or you will get the wrong results and you will break it. On the other hand, Bill Clinton who never served but has some liberal genes in his body never sent our kids in harm's way without that thoughtful contemplation. And though few servicmembers died on his watch, he went to funerals. I think it takes a real man to pursue peace. That takes hard work. That takes a real christian. I agree with Dick Gebhardt, george bush is a miserable failure. And I hope you now know why I think that. They aren't cowards; they are ignorant of the outcome of warfare, and they really don't care about it either. Its real easy for me in the voting booth, straight party; the less republicans in power the better off our country will be even at the local level. And I hope you have a fine weekend. I'm taking the Mrs out to din-din this evening.

[Rainbowreflect]

12. Thank you. You point is so important & so over looked.

:cry:

[erpowers]

13. Draft the Republicans

I have posted here already about Murtha. I am not the biggest fan of Murtha at this point and time. However, I respect the fact that he fought in Vietnam and served 37 years in the military. It is ridiculous for Dennis Hastert, Roy Blount, and J. D. Hayworth all of whom never served a day of their lives in the military to come out and intamate that Murtha is weak and is hurting the troops. I just recently heard what these men said about Murtha after he called for the immediate removal of troops from Iraq. These men have no right to claim that Murtha is a weak person. Therefore, I say draft Hastert, Draft blount, and draft Hayworth.

[BOSSHOG]

14. If they think he is weak

maybe they should challenge the Marine to a duel. What a sack of shit hayworth is. Never served, supports bush but doesn't want him campaigning for him and wants our kids to continue to die in a war he doesn't want to end. I'm not familiar with Murtha's politics but he obviously knows we can no longer stay the course. And hopefully he was parroting what his contacts in the Pentagon are thinking. At our current rate of bush leadership, our Army will not survive three more years.