If the primary came down to Dean vs. Lieberman, who would you support?

[goobergunch]

It's pretty obvious that I would support Dean.

[Atman]

1. Republicans and dems in the same primary?

Oh, wait...Joe says hes a dem. Never mind.

[Jack_Dawson]

2. I would off myself

j/k but I would be very depressed

[liberalnurse]

7. Now where is you party spirit?

[Jack_Dawson]

8. Lieberman ain't in MY party...

I think he's in Hannity's party...

[dolstein]

21. Well, my party's the party of Bill Clinton

And Lieberman is far closer to Bill Clinton than Howard Dean is.

[IndianaGreen]

26. Joe Lieberman is closer to Pat Buchanan. Joe is pure GOP!

I call to your attention what Lieberman has just said about religion in public life:

PORTSMOUTH, N.H., Dec. 23 — Senator Joseph I. Lieberman of Connecticut called on Tuesday for strengthening the role of religion in public life and took a veiled swipe at Howard Dean, who has run a steadfastly secular campaign.

"I know that some people believe that faith has no place in the so-called public square," said Mr. Lieberman, an observant Jew. "They forget that the constitutional separation of church and state, which I strongly support, promises freedom of religion, not freedom from religion. Some people forget that faith was central to our founding and remains central to our national purpose and our individual lives."

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/24/politics/campaigns/24TRAI.html

First of all, I take strong exception to this business of putting "observant Jew" in every story that is published about Joe Lieberman. I am an observant Jew too, and I am not the fascist that this jerk has turned out to be!

We can now add ignorance to the list of Lieberman's less-endearing attributes!

Religion has always been in the public square! The public square is any public space used for dissemination of ideas. Religion has never been barred from a role in the public square.

The restriction has always been in the public sector. In Thomas Jefferson's letter to the Danbury Baptists, Jefferson spoke of a wall separating church from state. James Madison warned about the corruption of liberties that any entanglement of religion and state would lead to. Public schools were always protected from such an entanglement.

Social conservatives such as Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, Bill Bennett, Pat Buchanan, to Billy Graham's racist son Franklin Graham, are on a crusade to turn America into their version of a Christian theocracy. They want to turn America into a Christian Taliban republic!

Joe Lieberman is joined at the hips of these intolerant and antidemocratic fascist cabal.

Lieberman is as much a threat to our freedoms as John Ashcroft!

[dolstein]

27. Anyone who says that Joe Lieberman is "pure GOP"

Obviously knows nothing about Lieberman, and even less (if such a thing were possible) about the GOP.

[IndianaGreen]

28. Anyone that calls to bring religion into the public sector

is as much a danger to our liberties as John Ashcroft and George W. Bush.

[Cheswick2.0]

32. It's a new day

open the curtains and breath in the fresh air. Clinton bless him, is over. He is better off finding something useful to do like Carter did and he should stop trying to run the party from behind the curtain.

[dolstein]

44. I'd rather have a Clinton retread than a McGovern retread

At least Clinton won a few elections.

[IndianaGreen]

49. McGovern was a war hero, and he hated the war in Vietnam.

McGovern was the one that said that he was tired of old men sending young men to die in wars.

What was Clinton doing?

The cynic in me tells me that Clinton's involvement in the antiwar movement was motivated in part because sex was easy to get.

What did Clinton, the anti-Vietnam War demonstrator do as President?

Plan Colombia! The genocide of indigenous peoples in Colombia, together with the training of rightwing death squads, and the spraying of crops with known-carninogens.

I won't go into the war in the Balkans...

[dolstein]

58. And he still lost 49 states to the most despised Republican since Hoover

I'd take a draft dodging, intern-f*cking, Tyson chicken eating, white trash governor over McGovern any day of the week, for the simple reason that I'd rather have a Democrat in the White House than a Republican.

[edzontar]

64. McGovern deserved to win. I voted for him.

Do you even remember those days?

[dolstein]

66. Sorry, you don't get extra points for "deserving to win"

I imagine we'll be seeing a lot more statements like this a year from now if Dean gets the nomination.

[beyurslf]

3. Dean. n/t

[Jerseycoa]

4. Dean nt

[damnraddem]

5. It would be a battle for the soul of the Party.

A Lieberman win would mean I would have a Green future.

[ozone_man]

6. You could have company. n/t

[He loved Big Brother]

23. Amen.

n/t

[ochazuke]

9. Same as if it came down to a box of tick-tacks vs. a shoe-shine kit

It wouldn't matter. Neither would defeat Bush in the general election.

P.S. I would vote for the underdog in hopes of a brokered convention.

[He loved Big Brother]

29. Both could beat Bush

That's just my opinion. ;)

[Crunchy Frog]

10. Dean

considering that he is my second choice anyway. I would have a very difficult time voting for Lieberman even if he got the nomination.

[Deesh]

11. I'd take Dean...

Joe would make a great neighbor or a great boss. But his endorsement of Bush's Iraq assault in the Rose Garden helped end dialogue about the war. The majority of Dems this year oppose Bush's foreign policy (if you can even call it a "policy" ).

I'd like Lieberman to be my friend and neighbor, but would take Dean in a 2-man match-up.

[SheilaT]

12. I can never figure out

the point of this kind of a thread. In what alternate universe is "the" primary going to come down to Dean and Lieberman? Are you postulating that the others will all withdraw or have something terrible happen to them so they're no longer running?

I'm a Dean supporter myself, write letters, host a meet-up, so I'm obviously not too keen on any of the others. But Lieberman?

(walks away, shaking her head, unable to comprehend the point of the question)

[imax2268]

13. DEAN...

Lieberman's old politics...he lost any respect with me when he blasted Dean when Saddam was captured...in my opinion...that was way out of line...

[Padraig18]

14. Kick

[sandnsea]

15. Dean

Are you shocked?

[Padraig18]

16. To be honest, I am.

:wow:

[sandnsea]

18. I want the most liberal candidate possible

Who's message isn't so far left he sends people away in droves. Right now that's Kerry, but in a Dean - Lieberman match up, it's Dean.

[drfemoe]

25. no doubt

[JohnKleeb]

17. Lieberman NOT

Dean of course silly.

[AlFrankenFan]

19. Dean Dean Dean!

[dolstein]

20. As a member of the (New) Democratic wing of the Democratic Party

I'd back Lieberman. To the hilt.

[sleipnir]

22. I'd vote for my dead dog before I'd vote for Lieberman.

[morgan2]

24. lieberman then vote green nationally

[amyforclark04]

30. Lieberman

And I'm not saying that just to be different. Although I don't agree with him on his views on Iraq, he is strongly Pro-Israel like myself, and to me that's very important.

[newyawker99]

31. Hi amyforclark04!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Cheswick2.0]

33. Then you should be for Dean

haven't you heard his campaign is being run by AIPAC? </sarcasm>

[amyforclark04]

39. I will not support Dean

Unless I have to

[Bombtrack]

34. Definetly Lieberman, he could actually beat Bush

and he's not an asshole either

[robcon]

35. Lieberman disembowels Dean

We can’t afford to abandon sensible economic policies
By JOE LIEBERMAN

THE LAST two weeks have helped to clarify the Democratic Presidential campaign — especially when it comes to growing our economy and growing the middle class.

Howard Dean made himself perfectly clear last week when he openly and fully rejected Bill Clinton’s record-breaking economic agenda. Now we know what he really means when he says he wants to take the country back.

My economic plan, on the other hand, would build on the Clinton formula to unite our party, help middle class families recover from the hammering they’ve received under George Bush, and move America forward to a new era of opportunity and prosperity.

This isn’t about tone or emphasis. It’s about two starkly different plans for the future. Howard Dean shared his plan last week, saying Bill Clinton’s eight years were a time when Democrats joined Republicans “to limit the damage they inflict on working families.”

Excuse me, Dr. Dean — we must be living in different countries. Most families I talk to remember that when Bill Clinton was President, we created more than 22 million new jobs. We moved from record deficits to a record surplus. We moved 7 million people from welfare to work. And we drove poverty to its lowest rate since the late 1970s.

http://www.theunionleader.com/opinion_show.html?article=30552

[stickdog]

52. More like Lieberman disembowels a bull. (nt)

[Tom Rinaldo]

36. It won't. Joe won't make the cut.

He can not be the only other man standing because of the 7 other candidates running none of them have supporters who would predominantly pick Lieberman as their second choice. When the field starts to narrow Lieberman will have trouble moving up. He's the guy who started on top with name recognition etc. from the 2000 campaing. Lieberman may come in 2nd 3rd or 4th somewhere in a crowded 9 person field, but there is nowhere for him to pull additional votes from that would enable him to move up.

[edzontar]

37. I am amazed by the Lieberman numbers...

It seems that the people who don't like Dean would support ANYONE against him.

I wonder if they would stay with the party in the national?

[robbedvoter]

38. Considering the feelings for Joe on DU, those numbers speak for

the degree of alienation HD and his supporters wrecked on everyone here. It should give you guys pause. Arrogance is not conducive to outreach.

[Northwind]

41. The disaffected

and bitter partisans on this board are no reflection at all of America in general. Disregarding the opinions of the anti-Dean people here is not only safe, it is mandatory.

[HFishbine]

42. I don't think Howard Dean

has "wrecked" anything on anybody here.

[edzontar]

43. An alternate reading:

Clark seems to have attracted a number of new (and very prominent) voices to this forum.

Some of these voices appear to be quite conservative, and a number seem (to me) to be more or less pro-Iraq war.

This may explain their attraction to the avidly pro-war Lieberman.

I also wonder if they might switch to Bush in the general.

[stickdog]

54. What the numbers "speak for" are the number of liars, Repukes &

political operatives now voting on DU.

[edzontar]

57. You seem to be on to something, my friend...

I don't think we have to go as far as the general election to find the "Bush (so-called) Democrats."

For there are many of them here, with us, on this festive evening.

And I want to toast them all, since their unelected pukeboy and his dopey friend from Connecticut are both GOING DOWN, big time, next year.

Victory is ours!!!

Hail, hail, Freedonia!!!!

[dolstein]

46. You ask a very good question

Personally, I'll vote for any Democrat against George Bush.

But the Dean supporters around here simply can't fathom the possibility that there are some Democrats and independents out there who supported Al Gore in 2000 -- back when he was part of a moderate Democratic administration -- but wouldn't be willing to vote for Dean.

While it's true that a fraction of the 3% of voters who chose Nader because they didn't think Gore was liberal enough, at least as many Democrats voted for Bush because they thought Gore was too liberal. And the number of Bush Democrats is bound to grow if Dean gets the nomination.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

48. Exactly correct. and there are polls proving this NOW

There are distinctly different and measurable results between Bush vs. Kerry, Clark, or Dean. There obviously ARE voters who will or will not vote for Bush depending on the D. nominee.

[goobergunch]

67. Like this poll?

But Bush is at the 50 percent mark in head-to-head matchups with any Democratic challenger except Dean, who trails the President 49 -- 43 percent. Bush leads in other matchups:

50 -- 43 percent over Lieberman;
50 -- 42 percent over Kerry;
50 -- 41 percent over Clark;
51 -- 42 percent over Gephardt.

Pennsylvania - Quinnipiac
http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x9463.xml

[IndianaGreen]

51. "And the number of Bush Democrats is bound to grow..."

And the number of Bush Democrats is bound to grow if Dean gets the nomination.

Bring it on! If these Zell Miller clones think that 4 more years of George W. Bush is preferable to having someone like Dean (or a true liberal like Kucinich for that matter) as President, then we are better off without them!

I can understand someone sitting out the Election, or voting for a third party, because they feel angry and disenfranchised. I don't understand someone that calls himself or herself a Democrat, voting and campaigning for Bush/Cheney.

[robbedvoter]

53. Everyone is against HD! It's a conspiracy, I tell ya!

Again, someone might want to take stock in that sentiment - see if amends are to be made to people ... Or say "Bring it on" - a lot that did for W...

[edzontar]

56. Dean will win--it cannot be reversed...

All of your endeavors are folly--the die is cast!!!!

[edzontar]

59. TELL IT, my friend!!!!!

We shall smite the Bushies and their miserable little mole-like operatives, and the field of political battle shall run red with their spilled fluids, as we march onward to victory!!!!

Go Dean!!!!

[iluvchicago86]

40. Dean

Give em hell Howard.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

45. Given that Lieberman is a true liberal

and he could actually win, I have no problem nominating him over Dean.

[IndianaGreen]

50. You should read what Lieberman said about religion...

before you call him a liberal.

Check this out, and tell me if this puke is a liberal:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=22587#23585

[dolstein]

62. Martin Luther King Jr. was a liberal too

You don't have to despise public displays of religious faith to be a liberal.

[edzontar]

65. And he was a lot more liberal than Lieberman is today...

He opposed the Vietnam war, and probably would have opposed Busj's Iraq adventure.

Did you?

[edzontar]

55. HA!!!! HA!!! HoHo Ho---Lieberman is a liberal!!!!

And the War against Iraq made us all safer!!

HAHAHA HA!!!!!!

[ClarkGraham2004]

47. I can't believe this many people are voting for Lieberman

There is a real Dean-hatred here at DU.

It's lonely at the top, I guess.

DU used to be about 90% pro-Dean, until he became the obvious frontrunner.

[stickdog]

63. Right. At that point, DU started becoming much less Dean-friendly

and much more Anybody-But-Dean friendly.

Dean's supporters have ony so much time to waste beating their heads against a newly imported army of Repukes-in-disguise, other candidates' operatives and Demopublicans.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

60. Lieberman - the voice of the bad old days.

Things have (finally) changed. The days of being the "moderate" wing of the republican party are gone. The ship has sailed and Joe and the other 3 "practical" politicians who decided that flag waving was worth more than ethics have missed it.

[Clark4Prez]

61. Dean, without question!

Although I don't see Lieberman making it past March.

[Forkboy]

68. Lieberman

is the one Dem I will not vote for.

[maddezmom]

69. Dean

Lieberman, is on the wrong side of the aisle lately.

[JohnLocke]

70. Lieberman.

[mot78]

71. Dean

n/t