Someone tell Michael Moore to stay out of this fight-please!

[wisteria]

The Repub administration is starting to throw his name out as guiding force of the Dem party. Anderson Cooper 360 just mentioned the Administration's comments pertaining to Moore and then read a statement -just received - from Moore where he claims that a majority of average citizens and Moore are all on the same page and against Bush and this war. Moore's presence now just gives the Rebups something to scare the public with and regain their support.

[tridim]

1. I disagree.. Most Americans agree with Michael Moore

and he has the right to defend himself. I trust he'll be smart about his response. He always is.

[niyad]

2. invoking michael and trying to demonize him shows just how afraid of him

all the little bushbots are. you are falling into the reichwing trap--turning on our own, telling them to shut up because they are upsetting the nutbars on the other side.

[AntiFascist]

60. I agree...

the worst thing we can do is act embarassed, and that's how they want us to feel. He is a celebrated filmmaker you know. On the other hand, we should also be arguing issues not personalities.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

80. No, alas.

It's not because they're afraid of him, it's because they think he's a useful idiot.

Michael Moore is a damn good investigative journalist, but he can't resist drawing conclusions stronger than the evidence supports, and as such I have very little respect for him, I'm afraid. Hyperbole and hysteria in politics are vices whichever side practices it, and are also very counterproductive, as the Republicans know.

By focussing attacks on Moore, they hope to convince the electorate that he's representative of the Democratic party and liberals in America in general. If they succeed, it will do a great deal of harm to the Democrat's election chances.

[rosesaylavee]

3. NOW, they have a solid target.

But still, if I were Michael Moore, I don't think I would stand by and allow my name be bandied about by this crowd without a rebuttal.

Guess it's foodfight time. :eyes:

[MercutioATC]

4. Agreed. Some of the vanguard need to take a step back now.

Michael Moore is one of them. He got the press talking and got branded in the process. He made a valuable contribution but the best thing he could do right now is to sit back and let others run with it.

[greenman3610]

9. Michael Moore will have to draw on his better angels

and lay low to work on his next movie.

It's waaay against his nature to do so, but
hopefully he's developed some savvy and
maturity by this time.

[MercutioATC]

22. Different voices are needed at different times.

(this is more for the benefit of those downstream...you seem to agree)


You need a siren to draw people's attention. Once you have it, a calmer voice is called for. Moore was a great siren and he deserves a lot of credit for that. I think he's generated too much polarity to be of much use in this next step, however.

[marylanddem]

25. Huh? Michael Moore doesn't exist to be "used" in a next "step"

whatever that means. The "polarity" is a lot of noise from the GOP - that's all it is.

[buddysmellgood]

10. .

[Smarmie Doofus]

15. Well, if it were to hasten an end to the war... why not?

Assuming that the premise is correct ( that it would help to hasten an end).

I'm not sure it is.

[MercutioATC]

85. That's the point. I'm not sure it would.

Moore (and others) got their attention. That was their purpose and they did it well.

Once the wood is cut, however, you don't use the saw to drive the nail just because it did a great job cutting the wood.

[Smarmie Doofus]

97. Agreed... emphatically. n/t

[Broken_Hero]

5. I'm not so sure...

F-9/11 was a very good movie, and I used it to plant seeds of doubt in my inlaws, who were very rooted in the RW party, this past election they voted for Kerry, and they were pissed at Bush, they felt duped big time after watching F-9/11. Most of the RW rhetoric will get old, after more people come forward to oppose this war. I think Moore will be fine, and the only people who will be afraid of him are RW hack jobs, who salivate at every word from Hannity, and Limbaugh....

[buddysmellgood]

6. Why? Moore was right all along. People need to see F911 again. Some

will take a new look at it and realize the truth.

[okieinpain]

7. really , I'm still trying to figure out when did moore become hitler.

[dogman]

8. Yesterday there was a post calling for Cindy Sheehan to go away.

Now Michael Moore should shut up. Yeah, that's it, lets go back to appeasement and let the Republicans define the debate. Let's just tuck our tails between our legs and whimper off.

[Cha]

36. I know...shame.

THe repigs are retreating not us.

[wisteria]

38. Cindy Sheehan is not part of this discussion. Moore is a

polarizing figure that many average americans find offensive. That is why the repubs have brought out his name and started throwing it around. I tell you, we are going to lose all credibility and lose this battle if Michael Moore takes the forefront. It's not a matter of whimpering off, its a matter of being smart and trying to win over minds. I tell you, Michael Moore won't allow us to do that.

[NYCGirl]

44. Freepers don't like him because he's not afraid to say what he means.

What other things do "average Americans" find offensive about Moore?

[dogman]

57. That is my point.

The same arguement you make against Moore was made by another poster against Sheehan. This is why they are seen as "polarizing". This is exactly how people saw, and some still see, Howard Dean. As soon as the RW extremists demonize one of our leaders or spokespersons, should we abandon them? Should we ask Bushco to review who is an acceptable spokesperson for us?

[AntiCoup2K4]

66. Michael Moore, Cindy Sheehan, and especially Howard Dean are RIGHT.....

...and the DLC appeasement poodles are WRONG.

I dare say that "average Americans" can identify with a mother of a dead soldier, an average guy from Flint who used his talent to call attention to corporate abuse, and a country doctor who turned down a Wall Street career, far more than they can identify with professional LIARS, COWARDS, AND TRAITORS like Al From and Will PNAC Marshall.

I know who I'll trust. Every time.

[Arugula Latte]

65. Those chickenhawk bullies will go after ANYBODY who crosses them.

If it weren't M.M., they'd find somebody else. They need a bogeyman to scare Joe Dumbass 'Murkin.

[marbuc]

11. Why do we continually let them get away with this?

Every time they bring up Michael Moore, we should remind them about Bill O'Reilly's recent comments and Pat Robertson's call to assasinate Chavez. Every time they bring up Moveon, we should remind them of Focus on the Family and other powerful fundie groups.

[wisteria]

40. Exactly! n/t

[No Exit]

69. Exactly! Whose assassination has Moore called for lately?

Nobody that I know of, lately, or... ever.

Contrast that with the behavior of repuke icons.

[marylanddem]

12. I disagree - Michael Moore is courageous & brilliant

They try to paint him as a "kook" because he's so fucking right-on.

[shaggy1974]

21. Moore may be many things, but...

i'm not sure "brilliant" is one of them. (I do however respect him)

[marylanddem]

27. Yeah? Well, as a filmmaker, he is brilliant.

[buddysmellgood]

13. I was against the war before it started. I was vocal. Should I shut up now

too?

[wisteria]

41. No, unless you have the same reputation as Moore. n/t

[NYCGirl]

42. And what reputation is that? As a truthteller? As a great filmmaker?

What's your problem with Michael Moore?

[buddysmellgood]

79. A reputation for being right? For speaking freely?

[K-W]

90. So anyone the repubs stigmatize, we should shun...

sounds like a solid plan.

[Punkingal]

14. I think he should talk loudly about it...

These idiots in the WH are getting more petty and juvenile on a daily basis. I can't believe they brought him up. Let him talk, so more people will realize we have a dangerous adolescent in the oval office.

[shaggy1974]

17. How will Moore....

talking loudly about it, convince people that there's a "dangerous adolescent in the oval office"? I just don't follow the logic there.

[Punkingal]

32. I just think it is beneath the POTUS, or it should be...

to get in a pissing match like this. The more people see this sort of thing the more ridiculous the WH looks. But that is only my opinion. I'm not suggesting any Bushbots would see the light, but perhaps some fence-sitters would.

[shaggy1974]

16. Vietnam and anti-war

This is an interesting point. During Vietnam, the majority of the people were against the war, but a significant number of them were also against the anti-war movement, which made it that much easier for Nixon, et al to do the kinds of desperate things that Bush, et al. are doing now. I think it might be better to let this run its course without people like Moore. (Not that Moore probably has much control over this anyway)

[dogman]

23. Yeah, it came back to haunt Kerry 30 years later.

If he would have shut up back then he might be President now.

[Der Blaue Engel]

26. Huh?

So coming out against the war was wrong?

[dogman]

37. Seems to be the general point of the post above mine.

But maybe it's just wrong for Moore.

[Der Blaue Engel]

54. Ah, gotcha n/t

[wisteria]

46. You are right, I am thinking about how Nixon was able to look

like the strong and sensible candidate next to all the over the top protesters and rhetoric. McGovern was made to look to volatile to extreme, thus he lost every state but one and Nixon became President.

[emdee]

18. McClellan used Moore's name....

he had a right to respond - and I thought that his answer was a good one.

:patriot:

emdee

[wisteria]

47. As long as he lets it go on without him now. n/t

[rooboy]

19. Why the fuck should Michael Moore run away? Because he was RIGHT?? n/t

[wisteria]

48. No, because he could possible lose us some support with the

average American. He is viewed as a radical- fair or not. I want to keep people on our side not lose them because of concerns about Moore.

[July]

74. I know a number of "ordinary" people who were affected by F9-11.

Moore is a boogeyman for the hardcore Republican base, but I don't believe that he is widely reviled. I've talked to people of all ages and walks of life who had their eyes opened by F9-11.

[Seansky]

20. there is a breaking news every hour seems like so this will be placed

in the back burner very quickly...don't sweat it.

[leesa]

24. Why do you fall for their propaganda. I appreciate all he does.

[wisteria]

49. Its not me, its the average person who sees thing our way

right now, they could possibly go running back to the Bush administration if they feel threatened. And Moore comes off as a radical. I want to keep the momentum on our side.

[MADem]

83. If they are that stupid, then let them

The bottom line is this war is a disaster, kids are dying left and right, and the economy is tanking. If these 'average people' want to run back to Bush, simply because of Michael Moore, they can go right ahead. People that stupid are probably too stupid to remember to vote.

[fearnobush]

28. Moore has the freedom to do as he does, just like any one of us.

We need to say that because Moore is an anti war activist. He went after Clinton in Bowling for Columbine as he went after Bush. He is an independant thinker and does speak for Democratic party as an elected official or as an advisor. His views only anger to GOP faithful.

[sweetladybug]

30. Michael Moore should speak out. He was right about Bush and Bush's

illegal war. EVERYONE SHOULD WATCH FAHRENHEIT 9/11

[FVZA_Colonel]

71. He does have that right. However,

whether or not it would be expedient for him to use this right, at this time and in regards to this issue, is another thing entirely.

[fearnobush]

87. On edit, He "does not" speak for the democratic party as an elected

official or a paid advisor.

[discopants]

29. Miichael Moore is on prime time is a bad thing?

Speaking on the war.... ya think maybe some people who would automatically tune him out are now tuning him in? Maybe a wider audience will discover that the GOP boogeyman actually is talking sense.

[darkmaestro019]

31. that's called an ad homimen argument

and someone ought to change that to the Michael Moore argument--if Moore says it, it's automatically bullshit.

However, mysteriously, no one has managed to sue him for his constant lying. :sarcasm:

[Strawman]

33. the fact that Scottie compared Murtha to MM shows how scared he is

they are scared of losing a chunk of their base now. That is such a desperate strategy. It's really quite a testament to MM.

1)First they ignore you
2)Then they laugh at you
3)Then they attack you
4)Then you win

Isn't that how it goes? Isn't that how it's went for MM? Looks like the people who have been trying to bring this terrible war to an end are almost to step four.

[Badger1]

34. More Moore's

What we need is more Moores to tell the truth and be candid. I for one are VERY proud to have him on our side. We need guts and balls and MM has them both.

[Cha]

35. Oh please, you

worry too much. The Americans are on the same page with Michael Moore..they finally caught up with the Dude.

[Donna Zen]

39. So we should help them silence Moore?

In the politics of "personal destruction" it is only one's friends who come to your side. Michael Moore, even if you don't like him--I do, has done nothing wrong. In fact, he was correct about this war.

You will never see the right-wing abandoning Rush or Hannity; they run to their defense. That is why they win.

No, Michael Moore is someone they fear even as they vilify him.

[wisteria]

50. What new does Moore have to add now. He is 2004. n/t

[Donna Zen]

63. What does Moore add?

How would I know, I just defend his right to "free speech."

How do we know what anyone has to add?

Again, Rush has adding nothing to society since his life began, but the right-wing would become ballistic if anyone attacked their guy?

pssst: Actually, Moore is doing a film about Katrina. Good. And I hear he is also doing a film about "big pharma." Ditto good.

[incapsulated]

43. Only repuke loons fear the name of.... MOORE!

He's a rethug boogieman, now. No one else cares.

More Moore, I say!

[wisteria]

51. Sorry, I disagree with your estimations of who view Moore in a

negative way. That is why they have brought him back out.

[incapsulated]

55. I honestly disagree

Moore isn't the lightening rod that, say, Hillary Clinton used to be. I think they want him to be, but I just don't see it. He's a filmmaker and that's how most people view him, whether they agree with him or not. I just don't see this getting any traction for them other than with their own hardcore.

[wisteria]

62. Well, I hope you are right! n/t

[No Exit]

68. Why not look at it this way:

For every person Moore's reputation may dissuade from our cause, O'Reilly will dissuade two or three persons from THEIR cause. We'll still end up with more supporters.:7

[July]

75. They are notoriously bad at understanding things.

They think Moore will scare people more than he really will.

[K-W]

92. Right, because they lie about him, smear him, and stigamatize him

and then political 'pragmatists' decide its easier just to let them have thier way with Moore and distance ourselves from him, this ensures that the right will be able to continue to build up thier Moore Boogeyman to be used over and over again to marganilize the left and every Democrat who aqueisces to the right's frame lends credibility to that boogeyman.

Confronting peoples misimpressions of Moore and confronting thier misimpressions of the war, Bush, and everything else are all the same battle. It is all part of one large propaganda system. We wont win until people stop buying into right wing lies and that includes right wing lies about Michael Moore.

[TrogL]

45. This is great!!

The majority of American voters have at least a bit of a clue. Some of them were seduced by tales of Clenus and Saddam's fictional involvement in 9-11, but even they can tell when the Repugs have completely lost it.

[mtnsnake]

52. I think you have a valid concern

Michael Moore is at his best when he's doing his own thing and when he's doing it on his own...via books or documentaries. When he jumps into the political spotlight, I don't know, things can backfire.

[wisteria]

53. Thank you!! That is exactly my point!! I personally like Moore. n/t

[Check12]

56. Michael's response says it all..

34%

[incapsulated]

58. lol

That about sums it up.

[wisteria]

61. Yes, and I like to keep it at that or even get it lower.

Moore, won't have this effect, IMO.

[RazzleDazzle]

59. On the contrary

this is a perfect time to start to rehabilitate him and liberalism. So much of the public is so freakin' anti-Bush right now that they are going to be far more receptive to even Michael Moore. His statement tonight was great, by the way. He pointed out that most Americans agreed with him, and that he and we ARE the mainstream, and Bush is the extremist.

[AuntPatsy]

64. No,

[No Exit]

67. Don't worry. I used to hate Moore

back when I was deluded enough to actually do really stupid things like vote for republicans.

Now I think Moore is an American hero.

Any repuke--oops, I mean, republican--voters who are worth our having will eventually have to inwardly admit that Moore is right about a LOT of things, and that Moore (alleged "Halliburton stock" notwithstanding) is a friend of the People.

[Neil Lisst]

70. We'll know they've jumped the shark when they whip out ...

... Willie Horton and Jane Fonda.

[d_b]

72. So because Moore gave a response,

the American people are going to run back to Bush? Is this going to be Bush's new boogeyman for the next month? Everytime Bush gives a speech he's going to invoke Moore's name and link him with Democrats?

I want what you're smoking.

[KitchenWitch]

73. Who do you propose should step up and be a voice for our side?

[truthisfreedom]

76. bushco is pretending like they need help achieving 29% approval. no matter

WHAT happens, they'll get there.

Godspeed.

[enough already]

77. Michael is a major reason why we have reached this point

He needs to be shouting now, not hiding. There is no need to be afraid of these right wing pricks any longer.

[Bridget Burke]

78. Michael Moore's "radicalism" is a Right Wing Talking Point.

He scares the Republicans far more than he scares the "public."

If you're truly so concerned, why don't you send him an e-mail?

[oc2002]

82. If they want to talk 'radicalism' maybe they should look in the mirror.

the righties are full of 'radicals' who are make Moore look tame by comparison...Ann Coulter, O'rielly, Limbaugh....

[oc2002]

81. Is Moore a Radical or a Patriot?

Moore was right, he took a stand against the war when the Dem Presedential candidates where bowing to the Republican puppet masters.

Moore was out in front leading, as he knew best, with a cammera and film.

Moore is not a radical, he was RIGHT.

[oc2002]

84. Indications of Bush administration is in its final death throes?

They are on the ground flopping around look at anyone to lash out against.

Someone needs to shoot it in the head and put it out of its missery.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

86. what for?!? he has been proven to be 100% correct it all that he has said!

[Adelante]

88. Fuck that

I'm not even reading this ridiculous thread. Who the hell is ANYBODY, Republican or Democrat, to tell Michael Moore when he should speak or not speak. Grow the fuck up and recognize that censorship is WRONG. Grow some guts while you're at it.

:puke:

[second edition]

89. I don't think it wasn't meant as a command- just a suggestion.

For the possible good of the effort. No censorship was intended IMO.

[zulchzulu]

91. Watch Fahrenheit 9/11 again...

I rewatched it last night and it really is a solid piece of work. I even recognized Harriet Myers in a shot.

Repugs will always diss Moore for movies they never saw. They can't reasonably dispute his claims in Fahrenheit 9/11...yeah, he's fat...yeah, he's a slob...yeah, he hates America...

I say keep Moore in the news...maybe more people will watch his movies...

Think the idea that if Martin Luther King was still alive, Repugs would be dissing him as well. Not that Moore is anywhere near MLK, but they would use his name for talking points too.

Let them rot.

[BenDavid]

93. Hell, why should he

stay out of this fight. I would say to everyone. Go back and look again at the movie, F-9-11 and see all the truths in there. It will speak volumns about what his happening now to this administration.... I say speak loud brother, but speak, and that is to all.... Hell, if you going to be a bear, then be a damn grizzley...

[Beaverhausen]

94. Did you read Moore's statement? It is short, sweet and right on!

I was watching Anderson Cooper's show last night when he announced this:

And, just moments ago, Michael Moore released this statement exclusively to CNN. He said: "Unfortunately, the president doesn't understand that it is mainstream Middle America who has turned against him and his immoral war and that is I and the Democrats who represent the mainstream. It is Mr. Bush who is the extremist."


http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0511/17/acd.01.html

[Strathos]

95. I agree with Michael Moore and trust him more than the politicians

His voice should be raised and his name should be mentioned.

[dogday]

96. The Republicans gripe and moan and talk

about everything. If not Michael Moore, then someone else, if not Cindy Sheehan, then someone else, get the picture?

There is nothing this party can do that the Repubs won't make a public dispute over. So we should go ahead with and let them squawk. The public gets tired of these character shots.