Destroy all vote counting and tabulating machines NOW! Hand Counts Now!.nt

[kster]

[tatertop]

1. This is the only solution

[LoZoccolo]

12. Yes, shouting amongst ourselves on the Internet /is/ the only solution! nt

[kster]

13. Whats your plan? .nt

[LoZoccolo]

14. I didn't bring this up.

Or beseech people to listen to me.

[kster]

15. O.K.nt

[elehhhhna]

23. lol

[tatertop]

33. Yes, shout loud! Then fall back to sleep.

See you in 2008 AFTER the republican sweep.

[kster]

16. Yes you are correct

getting rid of the election theft machines is the only solution.

[tatertop]

34. But it's only a start. Repukes cheat at other levels.

But we know exactly what they are doing.
This MUST be corrected.

[autorank]

2. Agreed, Recommended! It's time...Velvet Revolution...n/t

[Carolab]

3. Can't we just break into the warehouses and smash them?

I'm serious.

[kster]

8. There may be some

laws against it, but what the hell they aren't playing by the rules. Count me in.

[Carolab]

9. I wonder how hard it would be.

Apparently the security in Ohio was pretty lax.

[Norquist Nemesis]

4. Agreed! I'll proudly hold up a purple finger!!!

A paper trail is necessary for true democracy!!!!!

[Wilms]

5. Recommended. n/t

[kster]

7. Thanks,"A Picture's Worth a Thousand Words"

[ThumperDumper]

6. It'd be totally WORTH...

the extra time and $$, and I'm not really sure it would even take any more $$ because of what would be saved not disputing bullshit.

Yes, let's go back to old fashioned ballot boxes and hand counts.

It's our most FUNDAMENTAL right, so let's leave the method fundamental too. Heck, let's petition the Democratic Party to make it a part of our PARTY PLATFORM! -JJ

[Carolab]

10. We could certainly try that.

I mailed a suggestion to the DNC regarding the NOVEMBER 15th kick off of the National Organizing Agenda, suggesting they put election reform on that agenda. I got a response saying they'd "pass it on". Now if we ALL do it, maybe they'll DO IT!!!

HERE'S THE LINK RE: the event.

http://www.democrats.org/a/party/a_50_state_strategy/national_organizing_kickoff/

Here's the E-MAIL:

Questions? Email to [e-mail]

[Frustratedlady]

11. Paper Ballots, Yes!

If the Repubs didn't do anything else, they at least proved we need to keep the paper ballots. I think one of the main reasons for going with the machines was speed in knowing who won. Hurry up and wait! I'd rather wait a couple days to know for sure who the next administration would be than have to go through the agony we've been through these last two elections. AND, you know we would never trust them again unless it was in black and white. It would be a continual argument, no matter who ended up with the job.

It would be interesting to see what was paid out during the last two presidential elections for the machines and recounts.

[AtomicKitten]

17. Nothing beats paper and pencil.

Christ, even an ATM gives paper receipts!

[tatertop]

36. Paper and pencil is the solution. Votes counted THREE TIMES -

one republican committee, one Democratic, one Independent.
Numbers must jive within the margin of error.

[tmiley]

18. GOA report: 2004 election may have been stolen

A GAO report recently released indicates that there is good evidence that the 2004 election may have been stolen. It also detailed just how easy stealing the election with automated voting machines can be.

As a computer programmer, I would never trust electronic voting machines to actually count the votes. If the machines produced a paper trail that, itself, was counted by hand or by easily verified automatic methods, with spot check audits on election days, then I could probably support computer-based counting.

The system would need to be scientifically verifiable, with source code available for everyone to see and I would insist that the source code be compiled on the day of election. I would also insist on readability standards for the source code so obfuscation of the source couldn't take place.

[EFerrari]

19. We need a 50 state strategy for election reform

because they have a 50 state strategy for election theft.

[Neil Lisst]

20. This is a good topic. Here's the solution.

We need a rallying point.

THE VOTERS BILL OF RIGHTS

We would need to write them, but they would start with

1. I have a right to vote in this country.
2. I have a right to have my vote counted.
3. I have a right to not be intimidated for registering to vote.
4. I have a right to not be intimidated when I go to vote.

Where do we go with it?

I want a standard presidential paper ballot in every state, a ballot that is not attached to the State ballot for other races. This ballot is strictly for the presidency, and is handled and totaled separately from the others. When the polls close on election night of the presidency, only those ballots are counted, by hand, with major parties represented. Unless there is simply no way of inferring the intent, the ballot counts.


----------------
the root of evil

[EFerrari]

21. I love it! And the leaves should be dollar bills.

:hi:

Sometimes I wonder why not just stop fund the political machine until someone somewhere realizes we are serious.

I mean, it's useless to contribute to a doomed campaign. It might make you feel good and a part of the effort. It might make the candidate and the group feel good in the short run, but good feeling is not democracy.

[BeFree]

22. At the very least

All federal elections should be on Paper Ballots, Hand Counted.

Congress has the duty to oversee how federal elections are conducted, and the use of Paper Ballots for at least those elections could be easily required.

As Andy used to point out, it's the local elections/issues that sometimes require many spaces on a ballot and therefore opitical scan/counting might be the best way to tabulate those types of confounded selections.

But federal elections could easily be completely accomplished using nothing but Paper Counted by Hand and Eye, and congress has the right to require such processing.

Indeed, federal elections are similar to interstate commerce since the local selections of federal officials have a great deal of bearing on other states.

Having all federal elections processed in the same manner would bring a great deal of confidence back to the election process, eh?

[elehhhhna]

24. VOTER VERIFIED paper ballot as the BALLOT of RECORD. period.

Andy was very forceful about that exact phrase and its legal ramifications.

[elehhhhna]

25. I heard one can disable those machines with magnets.

If so, thats' a glaring security issue even a layman can understand.

[BeFree]

26. The real problem is

The machines are under total control of the person who programs the machine.

Using a magnet may only make the machine go into default mode.... and the programmer is the one who decides the default mode.

I think we agree, elehhhhna, that Andy was implying a Paper Ballot tabulated by opti-scan was the best way to count precincts with complicated ballots.

I say the federal elections are not complicated, can be solely counted by hand and eye, and congress can make it happen. I further suggest that we begin a petition drive asking congress to require that in any future election of congress members and president only paper ballots counted by hand/eye be used. I think we can do this. Who's with me?

[pola]

30. I heard optical scanners can be hacked into - ALL PAPER IS THE WAY

My friend told me that optical scanners were used in Ohio, and the election was still stolen !
Anything electronic can be hacked into apparently.
ALL PAPER !!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Nothing will change until we get rid of the MACHINES !
ALL THE MACHINES !!!

[many a good man]

29. Good idea to separate Federal elections

and make them all pen and paper ballot. Make it a federal holiday. Unfortunately elections are run mostly by volunteers who are hard to find for just one day of the year. Maybe we can also pay election workers and make them take an oath.

It would be unfeasible to run state and local elections this way, due to the sheer number of races and state ballot ordering rules. Depending on where you live, you can find several dozen measures and offices to vote on. Its staggering. Under the Constitution it is each state's responsibility to regulate elections, but federal money can be used to implement the highest standards and best practices. Its a matter of money and will.

Electronic voting can provide a triple-redundant, completely auditable process that can cater to all special needs (language, blindness, etc.) far better than any paper-based system. There are ways to certify and lock down such systems. Standardization can reduce costs considerably and add to security. We just have to get serious about demanding it.

[gordianot]

27. Maybe what is needed is a Carry Nation of the Voting Machine.

Got an ax?

[zann725]

28. First part good idea. Second part...counted by "who?" That part will

need carefully vetted, or the repugs will find a way to distort those numbers too.

[pola]

31. remember the Boston Tea Party ???

What about a non-violent Revolution among non-republicans, to refuse to vote on ANY machines, and demand that we vote on PAPER BALLOTS THAT WE DESIGN, PATENT OURSELVES, and then have OUR VOTES counted by hand ?
It would have to be 100% compliance, or it wouldn't work, of course.

[ClayZ]

32. National "Boston TEA Party."

It is time to throw the machines into the......

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5273938

[Rainscents]

37. Thanks for the link!

[Rainscents]

35. Only way this can be done is when "We The People" take it streets

and demand hand counts! I mean, this have to be done in mass numbers!