Deborah Orin, NY Post: "Plame was NOT covert, she WAS NOT outed"

[Bush_Eats_Beef]

..."there is NO UNDERLYING CRIME here."

Just now on Hardball.



Tweety CHALLENGED her, to his credit, but she would not back down.

I'm going to keep my opinions re: Ms. Orrin to myself.

For those of you who have read my prior posts, read my mind.

:grr:

[Arkana]

1. I take it she also said, "This is NOT Planet Earth!"

Am I right?

[The_Casual_Observer]

2. The US government apparently doesn't agree with her.

[No Exit]

16. Fitzgerald doesn't agree with her!

And I would think he would know a LITTLE more about it than does that gar-faced writer for that cheap tabloid rag the New York Post.

[The_Casual_Observer]

18. Libby's case is vs US government.

[No Exit]

24. Um, yeah, I know. (?)

[Love Bug]

41. Well, we don't know what Fitzgerald thinks yet

Libby was charged with perjury, obstruction of justice and giving false info to the grand jury, NOT outing Valerie Plame. There is a distinction here. We don't know yet if Fitzgerald has/will come to the conclusion that the outing was illegal or if he's going to file any charges.

It disturbs me that all the focus of the leaks about Fitzgerald's ongoing investigation seem to be on whether or not Rove tried to mislead the grand jury. That is a separate crime from outing Plame. As much as I'd like to see Rove gone, I'd rather he go down for the outing -- a message needs to be sent to future administrations that you just can't do this kind of thing and get away with it.

I'd love to see those involved indicted for outing Plame, but I'm not holding my breath.

[No Exit]

50. But we do know that Fitzgerald would not agree with what Orin said.

He said as much in his press conference, which I watched.

Also, the indictment says:

"At all relevant times from January 1, 2002 to July, 2003, Valerie Wilson was employed by the CIA, and her employment status was classified."

The indictment refers to this later, too. That's why I say the very biased Orin is wrong.

The court decision dealing with Miller's and other reporters' sources, by the U.S. Court of Appeals (D.C. Circuit), is online. (I ran across it the other day, may look it up again.) In that decision, the court lays out literally a step-by-step outline of what is necessary for a federal court to convict someone for violating the IIPA. There are a lot of steps.

As we know, the possibilities for the underlying crime are not only violation of the IIPA, but also of the Espionage Act.

Fitzgerald and the GJ put a lot of "meat" in this indictment. More often, indictments are really bare-bones documents, and they may leave a defendant scratching his head, wondering which details the prosecutor has got on him. It appears from the indictment and from his press conference that Fitzgerald has a PARTIALLY-constructed case against at least Libby, for violation of IIPA or Espionage Act. Fitzgerald EXPLICITLY stated that he "could not get at the whole truth" because Libby lied many times.

But Fitzgerald leaves us with the possibility that he might one day GET at the truth--if he could ever break through the smokescreen of lies that has been created by Libby. I have a strong feeling that if he did break through, he would then charge Libby and maybe others with violation of the laws regulating classified information.

In the meantime, it makes perfect sense for Fitzgerald and the GJ to go after the obvious crimes of perjury, lying to the FBI, and obstruction of justice--all of which it appears Libby probably committed.

I hope you aren't going to buy into that phony notion that Fitzgerald has indicted Libby for "technicalities". It has been noted by more than one jurist that truth is the essential core of the justice system. If truth is compromised or thrown away, that is a violation which could (if allowed often enough) take down our justice system (and with it, perhaps, our government.)

Those probable violations by Libby are not mere "technicalities". Ask Martha Stewart, who went to jail NOT for insider trading, but for lying about it. And believe me, if you or I were ever on the hot seat in federal criminal court, and tried to lie our way out, we would be mercilessly prosecuted. Libby deserves exactly the same.

[AlwaysDemocrat]

3. She is obviously drinking the "kool-aid"

What a *itch!

[C_U_L8R]

4. A liar and a silly one at that

dumb dee dumb dumb
good lord.... either she's a fool or a lousy crook

[malaise]

5. She's a lunatic

Even Tweety can't take it.

[KC21304]

6. I won't keep my opinion of Ms Orin to myself.

She has been shoveling rightwing BS for as long as I have known of her existance. And that has been waaaaay toooo long.

[Jacobin]

7. Gee, I wonder why the CIA brought the case.

I wonder why the indictment said she was covert?

They truly are desperate

[Mist]

20. It went by fast, but Orin said the CIA's lying--

So the Post is upfront in the admin/CIA conflict--they're backing Shrub and co.

[Jacobin]

26. So, Bush is at war with the CIA

They finally admitted it, sorta.

There's a fairly odd way to conduct your presidency.....being at war with the Central Intelligence Agency of your own country.

Now why on earth hasn't Porter Goss stopped this non-sense, if its just a lie? Didn't Bush appoint Porter Goss?

(i'm just making stupid musings.....)

they really are desperate, aren't they?

[Double T]

8. And the check from the WH for her PR services is in the mail

[SCRUBDASHRUB]

10. I can't stand her. So glad Katrina vanden Heuvel was on there.

She kicked her Deborah's ass and didn't need to take names. I wish Katrina was on Hardball more often. She's awesome.

[joeprogressive]

22. Ahhh Katrina

She is sooo sexy; attractive, liberal, compassionate and intelligent. All the qualities I also found in my wife.

[Vickers]

9. Well, that settles it...

"Mr. Fitzgerald, tear up that indictment!"

/ronnie raygun voice

:spank:

[rpannier]

11. Let's see

should I take the word of a NY Post hack or the CIA and the Special Prosector??? That's a no-brainer.

[Bjornsdotter]

12. No underlying crime?

Treason isn't a crime? What planet is she from? She also stated that the entire media was on the left....go figure.

However I love Katrina vanden Heuval, she takes no crap!

Cheers!

[MnFats]

13. that is the mantra those fucks are chanting....

...
I have heard Limbats and Yawn Hannity make the same kind of comment, almost verbatim.
Think somebody sent out some talking points?

[Captain Hilts]

14. She needs to read William F. Buckley's column in NatRev. nt

[No Exit]

17. I remember when Wm. F. Buckley came out against the war in Iraq.

Bushbot assholes at a certain web forum had been spewing that people who "didn't support the war" were "bleeding heart liberal freaks", or some such thing. I posted Buckley's article and told them, "Here's another one of your 'bleeding heart liberals' who's against the Prethident's war."

I don't think they got it.

[Captain Hilts]

28. He also was 'undercover' with the CIA and thinks Libby, etc. criminal.

The link to the National Review is on Huffington Post.

[No Exit]

37. I've read the National Review Online. I read the Buckley article, but

thanks but no thanks on going back to that rag.

Hey, has Jonah Goldberg enlisted yet?

[melody]

15. Then why did they take such pains to "leak" the info AND cover it up?

Poor Orin better make sure her talking points are rational next time.

[DarienComp]

19. She's a space cadet.

According to her, Plame was not covert, and Fitzgerald said so in his press conference. Um, Deborah?

"Valerie Wilson was a CIA officer. In July 2003, the fact that Valerie Wilson was a CIA officer was classified. Not only was it classified, but it was not widely known outside the intelligence community.

Valerie Wilson's friends, neighbors, college classmates had no idea she had another life.

The fact that she was a CIA officer was not well- known, for her protection or for the benefit of all us."

That was Patrick Fitzgerald at his press conference. Saying the exact opposite.

:mad:

[formernaderite]

45. I think they're doing a bit of wordsmithing....classified as opposed to

covert. Heard a local guy try and explain, that to be covert you had to have been on assignment outside the US at least once during the previous five year period. Not sure how many agents working there are classified as opposed to covert. I think they stated Ms. Plame hadn't been out of the country in over seven.

[Fozzledick]

21. "Slavery is Freedom, War is Peace, Ignorance is Strength"

[Amonester]

34. ""And Treason Is Heroic"" - eom

[sepia_steel]

23. If she keeps saying it it might come true.

Idiots.

[Justice]

25. Then why did Libby lie about it?

If there was no crime, why did he lie about where he first heard her name?

[BigYawn]

51. The lame excuse is "to prevent political embarassment of the VP & Rove"

[kentuck]

27. Seems like someone would know if she was covert or not ??

someone surely knows? Why can't they say now that she has been outed?

[tsuki]

29. The crime, in my eyes, is the blown cover of Brewster Jenning and

ALL the NOC that used the twenty year old cover agency as a reference. Plame was just a small part. I believe now, as I did then, that the true purpose was to alert our enemies (the Saudis) to the existence of Brewster Jennings.

[peekaloo]

30. Phew! I'm glad that's finally settled!

Thanks Deb for yer passionate whorin'.

[agincourt]

31. Tweety should not have an out and out liar,

like that on his show. I don't care even if he gets in her face, people who lie that obviously about a serious issue should not get airtime. It just promotes the "truth is somewhere in between bullshit". Of course if that concept was followed perfectly, Bush's speeches wouldn't be aired.

[twin_peaks_nikki]

32. Then Scooter, The Perjuring Pervert is

the dumbest person alive, five counts covering up a non-crime.

[SeattleGirl]

33. It just amazes me that so many rightwingers were "in the know"

as to Valerie Plame's CIA status. :sarcasm:

[Mz Pip]

35. So why lie about it???

This meme doesn't work. If this was no big deal then why lie about it repeatedly before a grand jury?

Why risk 30 years in jail for something that isn't a crime?????

Mz Pip
:dem:

[Catherine Vincent]

36. She lives up to her name.

Deborah Whorin

[aintitfunny]

38. This woman rivals Geobells

for her propaganda abilities. It is tragic that they would even have someone so biased on the program.

[spanone]

39. Saw her on Hardball last night. what a peice of shit she is.

[leesa]

40. Why do they choose such easily refutable comments? Because no one

cares and the BushBots will repeat it religiously?

[warrens]

42. Remember, this is the NY Post

Rupert Murdoch's little joke of a newspaper.

[DemoTex]

43. Ya know, I saw it too and Deborah Orin exuded self-doubt.

On the other hand, it was extremely comforting to see the self-confidence of Katrina vanden Heuvel (another liberal national treasure). I think Katrina (and Tweety, too) sensed that Orin's outrageous statements were nothing more than whistling in the graveyard. If Orin had not sounded so pitifully stupid, I think they (Katrina and Tweety) would have ripped off Orin's head and spit down her neck.

[Sparkly]

44. Anything Fitz said wasn't addressed IN the INDICTMENT...

...THEY now claim never happened.

So when he said he's not addressing whether or not she was covert, they yell, "SEE? She wasn't covert!"

When he said the indictment doesn't charge leaking her identity, they claim, "SEE? Nobody leaked her identity!"

When he said the indictment doesn't speak to the war itself, they claim, "SEE? Nothing is wrong about the war, the intel, the WMD claims, the Niger documents!" Etc...

Of course, by the same logic, since the indictment doesn't mention any hurricanes, we can conclude all those hurricanes never happened; and since it doesn't address the issue of the Tooth Fairy, clearly Fitz thinks she's real...

[gauguin57]

46. Another day, another memo from Uncle Rupert.

NY Post is a Murdoch mouthpiece. Can't expect the truth from the Fake News Syndicate.

[0007]

47. Yawn! Is anyone indeed surprised?

Just another paid shill for the crime cabal trying to twist facts into a reality.

Hulk Hogan sez, get use to that silly bitch she ain't gonna change.


"Wait till I get my hands on that so-called lady. grrrrrrrr

[ihelpu2see]

48. Heck 2 nights ago, just clicking by the 700 Club and there is Pat

interviewing John Fund (aarrgg) and John just blurts out that Joe Wilson is the lier and Mr. Libby will be found innocent.... Now, I know you can question the Libby thing but there is so much evidence to back up Joe Wilson.... It is laughable to think that people who watch this pack of lies nightly would believe John Fund but then again maybe not.....

[BlueManDude]

49. Orin is a lying shrew - she's not a journalist

she's a gop propagandizer.

[Warren DeMontague]

52. It's the bangs

she got 'em from Judy.

[global1]

53. Deborah Orin, NY Post - "I Am Not A Journalist, I Am Not Credible" n/t

[Neil Lisst]

54. The NY POST is evil, and she's one of the worst!

These people couldn't get jobs in journalism before the Murdochs, Scaifes, and Moons started creating tripe-filled rightwing rags.

This is a great example of the right foisting a story they NEVER offer any support for.

Count how many times you have heard

"Everyone in Washington knew she was CIA ..."

Then count how many times you have heard someone say

"I knew she was CIA ...."


This is another rightwing plot to assassinate her character and that of Joe Wilson's. They say it and their minions repeat it. No proof is ever offered.

-------------------------------------
white house evil:
http://www.webcomicsnation.com/neillisst

[Vinnie From Indy]

55. Well isn't that just frickin' great!

I am sure that the folks tortured and killed around the world because of this leak would disagree as well. Let's not forget that not only was Plame outed, so was Brewster Jennings INC.

[raccoon]

56. She's a ho.

A MEDIA ho, that is.

Not to insult sex workers.

Edited to add last 2 sentences.