Senator John McCain

[...of J.Temperance]

It really confuses me as to why so many people here like McCain and see him as some voice of reason.

People often seem to make comments like as if we can work with McCain and that McCain is a moderate.

How can we work with McCain? He backs the GOP line on everything, he rolls over for Bush Inc. on everything, he was the first out of the gate praising this Samuel Alito freak.

McCain isn't a moderate, he's a Right-Wing Republican. He's anti-Union, he's anti-abortion, he's pro-war, he's probably anti-UN. He's not a moderate.

I'm so confused when people say "oh I can't support so and so Democrat because they voted for the Iraq War" then people fawn over McCain who also voted for the Iraq War.

McCain isn't Jim Jeffords, if McCain was so moderate, if he was so disgusted with what Bush Inc. is doing and has done, then he'd of at least crossed the aisle and sat as an Independent, but he didn't, he chose to remain.

I'm just baffled by all of this McCain stuff, every time McCain gets mentioned, we have a group of people fawning over him.

Who was eating cake and yukking it up with Numbnuts whilst NOLA drowned? Was it McCain?

eom.

[Captain Hilts]

1. Eventually, he heads back to the reservation.

But he likes the attention being 'Independent' gets him.

[...of J.Temperance]

3. Which means that McCain has one of Junior's personality traits

That being Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

"Me Me Me...Gimme Attention...Gimme Attention..."

[patrice]

11. Narcissism is "pandemic".

A characteristic of our culture, because many of us are not getting what we really need out of existence.

[rock]

2. No argument from me

He is a Repug (Ptui, ack, choke, gasp)

[MarianJack]

4. "The Straight Talk Express"...

...is, in reality, "The Bullshit Express"!

[skylarmae]

5. I totally agree - Kudos for his war service BUT campaigning for

georgie porgie in 04, letting himself get kissed in front of the nation of *; IMHO = no credibility ever, ever, ever, ever! Just so he can have another shot at the presidency in 08 - ???

[ClintonTyree]

6. There was a time when many here thought McCain had..........

some good ideas and a shred of decency left within him. After the 2004 campaign and his incessant fawning over bush I don't believe there are that many remaining in the McCain Corps. Many of us were willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for a while, but he revealed his true colors and our short and not so passionate love affair with McCain is over. Believe it. ;)

[whatever4]

7. A few years ago I liked him, but I learned better nm

[Punkingal]

8. I can't stand him.

And that cake bullshit is not surprising. He's a Repuke.

[oregonindy]

9. used to like him...but he supports the torture which just blows me away

considering what he went through.

he's been bought and paid for by somebody.

[mduffy31]

20. Where did he do this?

He is the man who wrote the new law that Bush is going to veto outlawing and defining torture that the army cannot engage in.

[hippiegranny]

26. uh, wait, wasn't the anti-torture bill

that passed with all but 9 votes written by McCain? I can't stand the guy, myself, (I live in AZ so I get to put up with him more than most) but I do think he is anti-torture at least.

[patrice]

10. "Nice" man, but there's something "Dark" in him, probably helped him get

through being a POW, that Dark obdurate-ness (known as pig-headedness in other contexts) could have contributed significantly to his survival in his POW years, so I do wonder how much of him is made of Stone, and what effect that would have upon his use of Power. In a word, he makes me very un-easy, partly BECAUSE he's a good man, with what I sense is a strong, and Deep, streak of Darkness.

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

12. He's a maverick, not a moderate

Sometimes he can be like the "traditional conservative" we were talking about in another thread about William F. Buckley.

He does at times vote with Democrats, he offered up the the amendment that would ban torture. He does a lot of "bipartisan" work on legislation.

The problem, as I see it, is that he is not consistent.

[lonestarnot]

13. He's a freakin crook! Turns my stomach! You'll hear nothing

good about him from my mouth re him.:argh:

[William769]

14. He's a douche bag!

You will never hear me defend that asshole.

[napi21]

15. He wants to be Pres! He saw that he can't get the Pub nomination

unless he plays their game. Yes John is a Pub, but I think he's one of the old fashioned ones. I think he is much more straight forward than most of the other Pubs, but that's why he had to play with Shrub during the 04 election. Listen some time to the Pubs talk about him. They dislike him as much as we dilike Liberman. He was trying to bridge that during 04. I doubt it worked, but it will depend on who else runs against him in 08.

Someone on CNN the other day was asked what the difference is between Dems and Pubs. He said "the Pubs believe that the answer to all conflict is strong agression, the Dems believe the answer to conflict is negotiation, and only strong agression if you are attacked first."

I think it applies to foreign conflict through war v/s negotiated peace talks, and to domestic conflict through angry vicious verbal attack v/s calmly telling the truth and believing people will recognize that.

[Greyhound]

17. I think you've got it, although he's not an old school

re:puke: any more. I supported him until about '02 when he totally caved to the cabal. Now, I can't support him anymore, he just wants the nomination.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

16. Part of how our country works best is through negotiation & compromise

First, ours is truly the big tent party, and moderates, conservative democrats, liberals and others all post here and hold slightly differing views.

If someone honestly disagrees with my personal views, I learn from the other person. I may even change my mind. (I certainly changed it about Bush & Cheney) If they represent a group of people who think the same way, then that is a fact that will not go away, and we would be foolish to want that to happen.

Secondly, as good as my ideas sound to me, I am clearly not omnipotent. Unlike Georgie, I don't hear voices, and I don't have alcohol and coke flashbacks when psychotropic meds interfere with my perception of reality. I do make mistakes, I take wrong stances and I find that if I compromise, learn, debate and make negotiations work with the help or discussions from many differing views, the result is quite often better than my beliefs, thoughts or decisions alone could achieve.

That is why, even though I disagree with McCain on many issues, I find that his stance is not based out of a fundamental-ly flawed christian evangelical ultra-rightist neocon warped view of a 6,010 yr old universe. Partly out of relief, and partly out of respect for his service and current intellect and honesty (so far as politician honesty can go) he is someone who I think, puts the country first. And that means that we have a common ground far more important than any single political issue.

[catmother]

18. he is my senator and i used to like him

but i think he's a phony. he's also got a very bad temper. i read something somewhere that at a meeting he got so angry that he passed out. can you imagine him with his hand near the button?

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

19. His fucked up record during the Reagan years isn't much better either. n/t

[...of J.Temperance]

21. Okay, ALL of these responses have made me feel

100% better and much less confused. Because I was getting incredibly worried by the McCain defenders, considering he IS a Repuke that supports Shit-fer-Brains 110%, therefore his IS the enemy.

So this is like a blanket response to ALL of the responses.

:)

[Captain Hilts]

22. My parents knew his parents. His dad was a submariner, as was mine...

So, when I met Karl Rove, I wore my dad's submariner leather flight jacket and told him what a great guy McCain's dad was. He did NOT want to hear that!

[...of J.Temperance]

23. I bet he didn't!

Condering Karl Rove's Dad was a total loser...Rove probably nearly coughed up a fur ball.

[Captain Hilts]

24. NO sense of humor! Not a laugh in a truckload of Karl. nt

[...of J.Temperance]

32. Rove's just a big fat sicko...and this is for your Dad

:patriot:

[WildEyedLiberal]

25. He's an opportunistic asshole

I think in 2000 we all liked him because a) he was opposed to Bush, and his policies, while conservative, seemed at least sane, and b) we sympathized that he was trashed by Bush.

However, after 2004, we all know that he is an opportunisitic whorish gasbag who will pretend to be anything that he thinks will get him more attention and popularity. I hate him as much as I hate any Republican out there. Fuck him.

[Dr Fate]

27. McCain is the GOPs "good cop"- he is the worst of the worst.

At least Repubs like Bush, Santorum & DeLay (Bad cops) show you their true nature.

[Larry in KC]

28. So, seriously, how do we counteract him?

I agree with the OP. Frankly, though, I'm worried that with all of the confusion about McCain's true colors, he could win an '08 general election even with the public's growing disgust with Bushism and Republican rule.

How do we make sure that doesn't happen? For myself, first I'd be sure to nominate Wes Clark, a better man with better views by far. But how do we puncture the myths about McCain so the better man will win?

[...of J.Temperance]

31. I like

Wesley Clark, he's a good man.

McCain is very deceptive, like most Repukes and the mediawhores ALWAYS refer to him as a moderate and he's NOT. Because he doesn't go off ranting and raving like say Santorum, people are easily led into thinking McCain is a moderate, however his voting record is VERY similar to Santorum's.

McCain won't get the GOP nomination in 2008 though, he's already in bad health and he'll be 72 in 2008.

I think it'll go to the asshat that's George Allen, another fake cowboy wannabe, born and raised in California, pretends to be an Old Virginian. He's also fat and looks like Howdy Doody.

[Larry in KC]

34. I like your analysis

...and I hope you're right.

Clark would beat Allen like a drum! Even a merely competent Dem nominee could likely beat him in the atmosphere that we can imagine will prevail in 2008.

[...of J.Temperance]

38. I like your analysis too!

Clark beating Allen like a drum.

George Allen is yet ANOTHER Repuke dumbass, and we CAN take him out to the woodshed, and if he's their nominee, then we WILL.

By the time we're finished with George Allen, he won't be able to sit down for a whole month :)

[MaineDem]

29. Where are these McCain supporters?

I must admit I haven't seen them around since he did the ass kissing with Bush during the '04 campaign. He sealed his fate with most of us then, I thought.

Maybe i've missed the threads that have DUers supporting mcCain but I can't imagine it's many of us.

He's GOP scum...and a turncoat. The worst kind of scum.

[...of J.Temperance]

30. I've just

Noticed them here and there, popping up in different threads. There was another thread today about McCain and Guiliani, and I thought that people were defending McCain...but later on it turned out they weren't, but when I thought they were, it just kind of set me off...because I was thinking, heck not McCain defenders again, and so it led me to do this thread.

[GreenArrow]

33. he's a thorough self-server

and largely ego-driven, a big phony, and not to be trusted.

[deadparrot]

35. He lost my support after two things happened:

A) He called a teenaged Chelsea Clinton ugly at a private fundraiser in the 1990s.

B) He campaigned for Bush in 2000 and 2004 after the Bush campaign's attack on his daughter's skin color during the 2000 South Carolina primary.

Fuck him. He's scum of the earth.

[tenshi816]

36. He was on Larry King today in the UK

(don't know how far behind we are than in the States), and I almost threw something at my TV. Speaking about the dirty tricks instigated by Karl Rove against him in 2000, he said something about his constituents in Arizona not wanting a senator who would dwell on such things and that it was better to put it behind him. I have no respect for him for that, and if I were his wife I would leave him for forgiving anyone who caused such pain to the family for the sake of politics.

[...of J.Temperance]

39. This was the performance where McCain said that

It wasn't a big deal about Bush Inc. blowing Valerie Plame's cover? So according to Bush Inc's Buttboy John McCain it's okay to out undercover CIA agents.

The GOP also spread shit about McCain's SECOND wife Cindy, that she was basically zonked out on prescription drugs all the time and that she'd stolen prescription drugs...it was something like that.

Imagine having as your husband, a freak like McCain that let his Masters say stuff like THAT about you and then not going around there and skinning them alive.

[tenshi816]

41. Yes, this was the same performance.

First I was blown away by McCain's dismissal of Valerie Plame's outing - he completely followed the Republican party line on that one.

Then by glossing over the damage Bushco did to his family during the 2000 presidential campaign, I completely lost what little respect I had for McCain. There was a time that I used to think "OK, if we have to have a Republican as president, McCain isn't as bad as some of the others, but I no longer feel that way. He's as much of a craven coward and Republican whore as the rest of them, willing to sell out his own morals and family in his quest for power.

[paparush]

37. He Loves Alito too. eom

[Disturbed]

40. John McCain, Hypocrite

John McCain, Hypocrite
by Doug Ireland

John McCain, the media's darling, has found a clever way around his own campaign finance reform law to take big corporate bucks in furtherance of his political ambitions while carrying water for the corporate mammoth providing the dough. But the national press is ignoring the story.

The Associated Press first ran the story of John McCain's odorous but lucrative Senatorial service to the communications giant Cablevision on the afternoon of March 7. But, while some local papers in McCain's home state (like the East Valley Tribune) have run the story, nothing has as yet made it into the print editions of the New York Times, the L.A. Times, the Washington Post, or any of the half-dozen other big city dailies I checked (although, if one searches the hundreds of AP stories available on the Post's website on its Politics page by clicking on "Latest Wire Reports," one can find it there--but how many readers would bother to do that?) One notable exception: the Kansas City Star.

Here's what the AP's investigation found:

McCain repeatedly intervened on behalf of a policy Cablevision favored -- one which "congressional and private studies conclude could make cable more expensive" -- while his chief political adviser, Rick Davis (who's masterminding McCain's probable '08 presidential rerun) solicited $200,000 in contributions from Cablevision to an institute that promotes McCain and pays Davis a $110,000 annual salary.

The Reform Institute was set up to promote McCain and his issues--especially campaign finance reform, embodied in the famous McCain-Feingold law. This Institute is "a tax-exempt group that touts McCain's views and has showcased him at events since his unsuccessful 2000 presidential campaign," and it "often uses the senator's name in press releases and fund-raising letters and includes him at press conferences," the AP says. And, of course, it provides a cushy sinecure with no heavy lifting for McCain's main man, Davis, as he prepares the pontificating Senator's next presidential run. Cablevision's contributions account for a whopping 15% of the Institute's budget.

http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0309-35.htm

[tsuki]

42. I cannot say anything negative about his military service, and can

honor him for that. I have heard other DU'ers express the same. But his political life, The Keating Five, the attacks on the working class, his lack of compassion, his greed and quest for power, leave me, and most DU'ers that I read, cold.

That is far from an endorsement.

[IdaBriggs]

43. I'll admit it -- its hard for me to "hate" a man who bled for his country

in a stupid war. Please remember that prior to this administration I actually *BELIEVED* that even though Democrats and Republicans had some different ideas, everyone was working together to try to make things better for our country. (Naive, I know, but very common.)

The mysterious "they" have had McCain under their thumb since the 2000 primaries (the non-publicizied assassination attempt, as well as the threats against his family were undoubtedly major influences). He will never become President, he knows it, and like Tony Blair, he keeps thinking "if he goes along, maybe he'll have some influence." I predict this will last until the Impeachment.

:evilgrin: