jimmy carter said that jesus would not approve of abortion

[catmother]

how does he know? how do any of us know what jesus really thought and said? we only know from the apostles who wrote in the gospels about jesus. i'm not trying to inflame anyone -- it just got me wondering. many times i do wonder what jesus would think about different things. too bad we can't sit down over a glass of wine and have a discussion with him.

[CornField]

1. I've no doubt Jesus could drink me under the table

;)

[PurityOfEssence]

36. But if it's wine, that's masturbatory cannibalism

I know these god-critters are fucked up, but that's just too weird.

[IndianaGreen]

2. Had Jesus been Gawd, he would have said something about abortion

or homosexuality. The fact that he didn't means one of two things, either he was really divine and those two issues did not matter to his exalted persona or, he was a clueless mortal like the rest of us.

[catmother]

3. good point. n/t

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[elshiva]

31. Could have been the case.

[trotsky]

11. Very well said. n/t

[win_in_06]

58. If Jesus isn't God, then Christianity is a false religion.

[shance]

4. Isnt it amazing how so many people project their own prejudices onto Jesus

I am surprised however that Carter would be so dogmatic in that regard.

Jesus would do no such thing, because Jesus would not be into controlling womens bodies like so many dominating males are. If Carter were a woman, he want the option and would fight for HIS RIGHT to protect and control his own body.

[catmother]

6. absolutely. a woman's body belongs to her

and no one else -- not even her husband. it's hers.

[mike_c]

10. see #9-- give Carter credit for his entire remarks....

eom

[NYC Liberal]

5. He has answered this before:

What about abortion? How would you speak to moderate evangelicals who withhold support for Democratic candidates on that single issue?

This was an issue that I had to face when I was campaigning 25 years ago. I have always been against abortion; it’s not possible for me in my own concept of Christ to believe that Jesus would favor abortion. But at the same time, I have supported the Supreme Court ruling of our country as the law of the land. And the present arrangement, whereby a woman is authorized to have an abortion in the first trimester of the pregnancy, or when the pregnancy is caused by rape or incest -- these are the things that moderates who have beliefs like mine can accept as the present circumstances in our country. The liberality of abortion is anointed by the laws of our country, including the ultimate ruling of the Supreme Court.

[vi5]

8. With as much respect as is possible.....who gives a damn?

Honestly why would we even think about basing human health and policy decisions based on a guy who may or may not have been a philosopher 2,000 years ago. And if the people who DO care don't want to have an abortion because he wouldn't then that is their right. And if they want to promote adoption and adopt a child themselves in keeping with that philosophy then that is their right as well. But to anyone who wants to create public policy based on this....well, then that I have a problem with. And the fact that anyone is discussing this on a so called "news" show is prime example of how pathetic and infantile our society has become. Maybe next we can listen to people debate whether the highway bill makes angels cry or whether tort reform makes wittle kittens sad or some other brilliatnly illuminating public policy debate.

[mike_c]

9. that was a pretty amazing interview, IMO....

Carter is such a gentleman. He also said that Jesus would not approve of the death penalty-- but he made both remarks in response to Terri's question about issues that he confronted as president in which his personal ethics were at odds with his duty as president. Regarding abortion, he said that while president he felt compelled to create programs that bolstered the financial well being and increased opportunities for women, thereby trying to eliminate some of the reasons abortions are performed. That is so different from the republican response of simply taking people's rights away rather than solving the underlying social problems.

[Rebellious Republican]

13. Well said mike_c, that was very good!

:applause:

[Tiggeroshii]

14. Was this a Terri Grosse interview?

[mike_c]

20. yes, on today's fresh air....

An excellent interview, and Carter just gets more and more the wise elder statesman as time passes.

[catmother]

15. i saw him on tweety's show n/t

[anditos]

27. Carter hit the nail on the head

First off, I am completely for a woman to decide what medical care she needs whenever she deems it necessary. Those are my personal moral beliefs BUT this issue is something that is keeping many potential voters from choosing Dem in the voting booth and I think we on the Left should adapt a more nuanced approach that placates more conservative voters while ensuring these basic rights are protected on a federal level.

Carter offers up a wonderful compromise that negates the 'Pub lie that liberals are for killing babies and touches on morality - something many people (for good or bad) are for. All along, Bush claimed he didn't have a "litmus test" for the SCOTUS and thus attracted more moderate voters while all along the fundamentalists knew he would deliver. Can't we do the same?

[peekaloo]

59. Thank you for posting this.

Carter offers a compassionate and reasoned solution and I admire him for that.

[pennylane100]

12. Well Jimmy Carter is a good person but he's not a psychic.

[IndianaGreen]

24. Jimmy Carter has intellectual integrity

a virtue which has been severely lacking in our nation's leaders for quite sometime.

When a RW speaks against abortion, they are hypocrites for they support the war in Iraq and the death penalty.

When Jimmy Carter speaks against abortion, I listen respectfully knowing that he will respect my pro-choice views and my right to exercise them.

[bmbmd]

34. No-but he is a thoughtful, caring man who is quite familiar

with the scriptures. I believe that he (Carter) is exactly right in most things. The way to prevent abortion is to (a) prevent unwanted pregnancies through EDUCATION and AVAILABLE HEALTH CARE and (2)provide care for disadvantaged moms who choose to "keep my baby". Jimmy Carter is a Christ-like, humble believer.

[FreedomAngel82]

16. He didn't talk about it I don't recall

Just like gay marriage. He did talk about divorce and giving to the poor and helping the elderly.

[catmother]

18. are you talking about jesus or jimmy carter? n/t

[GrumpyGreg]

17. He who lusts in his heart has spoken !!!!!

[catmother]

21. yes. I remember that. i always wondered what

rosalind thought about that. i'm sure my husband has lusted in his heart too, but if he did i don't want to know about it.

[brentspeak]

19. However, he does keep his religious views separate from

his views of public policy; he supports Roe v.Wade (though he doesn't approve of abortion past the 1st trimester).

[catmother]

25. well i personally am pro choice

but i think there are far too many abortions being performed. there's so much birth control today, that it should be rare if a woman gets pregnant when she doesn't want to. but of course, if you're a drug addict and stoned out, you probably are not thinking about birth control.

[justiceischeap]

22. Jimmy Carter said HE doesn't think Jesus would approve of abortion

Emphasis on HE. Carter doesn't appear to be one of those close-minded xstians that we all see too often.

I'm of the opinion that people are allowed their own opinions on things but I don't have to agree with them. I am far from religious or conservative but I saw nothing wrong in what he said.

The great thing about being liberal, progressive, whatever label people want to put on it, I'm all inclusive because I know I don't have to agree or follow everyone else's values, just mine.

[Ken Burch]

23. So Jesus was against abortion...

Was he ever likely to NEED one?

[catmother]

28. i couldn't help but laugh at that. recently on the view

joy baher said that if men could get pregnant abortions would be available at super cuts.

[IndianaGreen]

26. Turn to Larry King right now, Jimmy Carter is blasting fundamentalists

Wow!

[catmother]

29. thanks. i just put in on n/t

[catmother]

33. this has been a great interview so far

larry king knows what questions to ask and he lets people answer without cutting them off. someone must have started a thread on this show.

[leesa]

30. I suppose he followed Judaic law which really didn't have a problem with

abortion. I suspect Jesus was more open to homosexuality than a lot of Fundies would like though...hanging about with those apostles all the time was a bit close.

[elshiva]

32. Yes, it is not in the Gospels. But I think Jesus would understand

the painful situation that a woman would go through... The point is what would be the most Christ-like (caring, understanding) thing to do. In some situations, in time of rape or mental illness of a mother, I have thought that Jesus would understand abortion in those cases.

[DanCa]

42. The big guy said beware of scribes and pharisee's

So i am sure that he would view everything as an exception. Personally I am pro neutral on this subject, I am not qualifeid to make life and death situations let alone be bold enough to proclaim what god's thinking. Good post.

[Ken Burch]

35. Now that I remember, this shouldn't surprise anyone

Carter was always clearly anti-choice as president.

Remember "life is not fair"?

[Cha]

37. Well, I think Jesus would

have left that up to the women who would have to make that choice.

[kurth]

38. Jimmy Carter supported reinstitution of the death penalty in Georgia

Pro-life, my ass. (Still, Carter is a wonderful man, a great humanitarian, and the most honest president we've ever had).

[mike_c]

43. link please-- pardon my asking, but Carter has made his opposition...

...to the death penalty so clear-- including during his tenure as Governor, that I'm surprised. I do not recall him supporting it (but I was a teen and don't recall much).

[kurth]

45. Here's one link:

http://www.ourgeorgiahistory.com/date/March_28

March 28, 1973 Governor Jimmy Carter signs the re-drafted death penalty into law. The earlier version had been ruled arbitrary and discriminatory against blacks in Furman v. Georgia

[mike_c]

47. with all due respect....

...I don't think that indicates support. He has said that he acquiesced to what he viewed as the will of the people, but that he did not support the death penalty. He has been quite forthright about it, even mentioning how lucky he was that no one was executed while he was governor or president.

[kurth]

50. Render unto Cesar...

Every president in recent history has indicated some support for the death penalty while in office (it's the law and order thing, I guess). In his presidential campaign, Carter said he was "generally" opposed to the death penalty, but would favor it for "lifers" who commit a second murder while in prison. I know he has always been against the juvenile death penalty.

I have the highest regard for Carter. His stance on abortion is not much different from Harry Reid's.

[DerekG]

39. This is my supposition

The Jesus of the synoptic gospels deserves the title Prince of Peace. And while I don't see how abortion could be assimilated into his ethos of non-violence, I suspect he would direct his ire towards the architects/organizers of the economic system that encourages this practice.

Jesus had plenty to say to the Sadducees and Pharisees, but the only command I recall him giving to the prostitutes--whom he congregated with--was, "Go and sin no more."

But who knows?

[realFedUp]

40. He should read Daniel Maguire's "Sacred Choices"

talks about abortion in different cultures.

[DanCa]

41. I agree with what you said however i thought carter said he was

for rape incest exceptions. I may have misheard him .

[opiate69]

44. Maybe Hay-Seuss wouldn't approve..

but thank the FSM our country and it's laws aren't based on his (alleged) teachings.

[JohnnyCougar]

46. In my opinion, he is right unless it is done ASAP after pregnancy.

The whole morality issue is when do you consider an embryo/fetus a human.

I don't think there is a certain point where you can say for sure. My opinion is that it starts off as not human and slowly grows into a human, therefore the sooner an abortion is done, the more moral of a decision it is. But it is a sliding scale. You can't just set a line and say before or after this line the decision is immoral or moral.

Liberals set the line at the beginning of the thrid trimester, I assume. Conservatives set this line at contraception. I don't think there is a line, I think it is a sliding scale. Even in cases of rape and incest, you should attempt to have it done ASAP. I also think the government lacks the ability to regulate abortion properly, and therefore it should be the choice of the woman.

[mike_c]

48. dude, WTF are you talking about?-- if an embryo/ fetus isn't human...

...then what is it? A plant? Of course it's human-- it's human from the instant of fusion, and the gametes are human before they combine. Good lord-- how can you suggest that a human embryo "isn't human?" What species do you think it is?

[JohnnyCougar]

49. I'm talking about "human" in terms of the law.

As in, if you were to end this human's life, it would be immoral and illegal.

[Bridget Burke]

57. "after pregnancy" is too late for an abortion.

Do you prefer infanticide?

[seabeyond]

51. maybe jesus wouldnt, that isnt the point. jesus isnt passing

laws of this country not what america is about. if one feels jesus wouldnt approve of abortion, dont get an abortion. but because some of us believe in jesus doesnt mean we all do, and we cannot put our religious belief on others. jimmy carter is showing once again, to be against abortion is because of religious belief. so, we who are religious must follow that guideline but it isnt ours to make all follow our religious guideline

[flpoljunkie]

52. I would hope Carter would make exception for life, health of mother in

late term abortions. Carter said he was against late term abortions, but did not mention his previous exceptions. According to Planned Parenthood, 88% of all abortions take place during the first trimester, and only 1.5% of abortion occur after 20 weeks (full term is 40 weeks). Carter is deeply religious and a product of his time and has done an awful lot of good in the world.

Carter was excellent in his criticisms of the Bush administration. He is deeply concerned that this administration condones torture, and his main concern today is the increasing gap between the rich and the poor in the world and our failure to do more to alleviate poverty in the world.

Carter said he was more concerned with Alito's position on the Bush administration's condoning torture, environmental issues, than with Alito's position on whether a woman seeking an abortion should be required to notify her husband. Carter is pro-life and personally believes in abortion only when the life and health of the mother is in jeopardy and where the pregnancy results from rape or incest.

On NPR this afternoon, Carter also pointed out that he accepts Roe v. Wade as the law and pointed out that abortion is only unrestricted in the first three months--many are unaware that abortion is not an unrestricted right. Carter also believes in increased family planning availability, sex education, and health care for pregnant women, and essentially said that he also does not believe that "every sperm is sacred" as some in the pro-life movement--a sentiment I firmly share. He enthusiastically support embryonic stem cell research, using otherwise to be discarded frozen embryos.

I am pro-choice because I believe that women must be able to control their own lives, and if abortion is outlawed, we will return to the days of botched "back alley" abortions, as people will continue to have unprotected sex. That is a fact of human existence.

~Legalization of abortion allows women to obtain timely abortions thereby reducing the risk of complications. In 1970, one in four abortions, in the United States, took place after 13 weeks gestation. Today, 88% of all abortions in the U.S. take place before the end of the first trimester.

http://www.abortionaccess.org/AAP/publica_resources/fac...

Between 1996 and 2000, the number of abortions in the United States fell from 1.36 million to 1.31 million (Finer & Henshaw, 2003). The CDC estimates that 58 percent of legal abortions occur within the first eight weeks of gestation, and 88 percent are performed within the first 12 weeks. Only 1.5 percent occur after 20 weeks (CDC, 2003).

Since the nationwide legalization of abortion in 1973, the proportion of abortions performed after the first trimester has decreased because of increased access to and knowledge about safe, legal abortion services (Gold, 2003).

http://www.plannedparenthood.org/pp2/portal/files/porta...

Harry Reid, who is also pro-life, introduced S. 20--A bill to expand access to preventive health care services that help reduce unintended pregnancy, reduce the number of abortions, and improve access to women's health care--which is now languishing in the Republican controlled committee.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d109:s.00020 :

[terrya]

53. This is the part of Jimmy Carter I'm less than enamored of.

I admire Carter a lot. But he does have this moralistic, preachy sanctimonious streak about him. And it does show up in issues such as abortion.

And I'm not appreciative of people who claim to know what God or Jesus would or would not do. I don't believe abortion is mentioned anywhere in the Bible.

[Connie_Corleone]

54. Jimmy Carter also said there should be exceptions.

The health of the mother, rape and incest. And that we should try to limit the amount of abortions by improving the economic situation for women, because most women have abortions due to not being able to financially support raising a child. (I'm paraphrasing what he said last night on Larry King)

[demnan]

55. No one "approves" of abortion

Abortion is a necessary evil. It is not something people really want but out of necessity must have.

[dogday]

56. I adore Carter, but he has no clue, nor

should he presume to say what Jesus would and would not of wanted. From the earliest of times, women have tried numerous things to get rid of an unwanted pregnancy. From herbs and medication to sticks and coat hangers. I have to think this is more humane than any of those other options....

[ClassWarrior]

60. Okay, any reasonable person would guess that's what Jesus' reaction...

...would have been. But yes, you're right, no one can read anyone else's mind, particularly a deity who walked the earth more than 2,000 years ago.

Sheesh.

NGU.