how long did it take terry schiavo to die after the tube was removed?

[all.of.me]

i have to make this decision for my mother in the next couple of days. thanks.

[BurtWorm]

1. About two weeks, I believe.

I'm sorry you have to go through that. Best wishes to you and your family.

[all.of.me]

2. thanks.

i was sure it was more than a week, like closer to two. thanks for your thoughts.

[liberalnurse]

3. I think 14 days.....

That was longer than most.......It surprised me.

[all.of.me]

5. the doctor told me a week

and the schiavo fiasco is the only point of reference i have.

[liberalnurse]

15. Schivo was not in a chronic, compromising health status.

Essentially, her systemic systems were functioning well. It was that she was running on a rudimentary brain.

If an individual has compromised health, such as a severe stroke, renal failure and cardiac failure, one or all of the above, then death is much more predicable and efficient with the removal of nutrition and fluids. The homeostasis has already been strained by the disease process.

[all.of.me]

17. i see what you're saying.

yeah, that makes sense. she was in great health until the last month. i'm not even sure of the stroke, but i was just listening to her on the phone (talking to her aide in her room - i am far away), and it sounded like she was trying to say something when i mentioned my kids and halloween. i don't know if she was tested for a stroke, but it sure sounded like one. i also think she is ready to go, from conversations had over the last few months. oh god, my mind is boggled right now. i appreciate your information.

[brook]

29. My mother's doctor...

gave me the 'about a week' heads up as well. She died 5 days later. I was her caregiver at home for over a year. I just sat and held her hand. Sounds 'trite' - but it was peaceful.

I think you'll 'know' what to do when the time comes. I'm sorry you have to go through this - I know it hurts like hell. You have my condolences.

[all.of.me]

30. thanks

part of my dilemma is that i am so far away (2,000 miles), and it's not easy to get away. but you are probably right that it'll just come as it's supposed to. why can't we see that when we are in a crisis?!

[brook]

33. I don't have a good answer...

as to why "we can't see...when we are in crisis". I do think it takes time to integrate the emotional and intellectual aspects of these experiences...and maybe that's called 'acceptance' finally. I can tell you that it took me a couple of years before I could walk past a display of Mother's or Father's Day cards without a hit to my solar plexis.

I feel for you being such a distance away and imagine it weighs heavily on you...but don't add 'guilt' to your sorrow, please. You have enough to deal with.
I've always counted myself as fortunate that I was able to 'drop everything' and move across the country to care for my folks who died within a couple of years of each other.

[all.of.me]

39. thanks. that's very soothing.

[Patiod]

4. Read up on it first

Unlike the zealot spin, it is NOT a hideously painful death.

In hospice, we were told that sometimes patients will just make the decision themselves to stop eating/drinking, and stick to it without much difficulty. I think if you read up, you may feel better about what has to be a very difficult and painful decision.

Good luck to you and your family with this.

[all.of.me]

9. it's a complicated situation.

three weeks ago, she went into the hospital with pneumonia and a couple other infections. they gave her a feeding tube to help the anti-biotics work better. she has a DNR order and a living will, so the tube was against those wishes, but they felt it was necessary. now they think the pneumonia won't quit, because of the tube. and now we think she's had a stroke or two. there's so much more, but after we talk to the doctor again tonight, we'll have to decide what to do, and do it within the next couple of days.

[liberalnurse]

16. WTF???????

Antibiotics are given traditionally with IV fluids......A PICC or Central line is most common. ??????????????

[all.of.me]

18. i don't know.

i'm not even there. i think they gave her an IV at one point. i do remember hearing that. the tube was for some nutrition to aid that process.

[liberalnurse]

20. Okay......you and your family are in my thoughts.

O8)

[all.of.me]

21. thanks.

[ewagner]

6. My Mother.

two hours...

My father...about 5-6 hours....

Sorry you have to go through that. thoughts are with you.

[all.of.me]

10. oh my god! really?!

hmmmmmm....

thanks.

[JuniperLea]

7. My heart feels for you!

As I recall, it was about 10 days. I remember being surprised.

Kind thoughts and sincere prayers of hope to you and yours.

[all.of.me]

11. thanks for your thoughts.

it's kind of a nightmare and brings back all the emotions around the schiavo case.

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

8. Sorry you have to go through this.

My brothers, my sister and myself had made the same decision about our Dad in 1991. We got lucky though, before my brother could notify the doctor about our decision, Daddy was gone.

You and the rest of your family will be in my thoughts.

[all.of.me]

13. thanks.

i am hoping she will decide for herself, but there is something she is still processing that keeps her here. she is very uncomfortable, and was in great health before this happened. i just don't know. i am 2000 miles away and unsure about everything right now.

[JuniperLea]

27. Decide for herself - something processing... Is she waiting to see someone?

A co-worker's father died this morning and we had a talk about such things. We had similar experiences, she with her father and I with my grandfather. We think her father was waiting to see her. She got to the hospital after several delays and spent several hours with him. She went home, took a shower, and got the call of his passing.

Similar to my situation, except there was no medical reason my grandfather should have still been alive. Too many horrible details to note here, but it was shocking to the doctors and nurses every day he lived on for about a month. I started thinking how he was the patriarch of the family and he always took good care of us. I also knew he was a staunch Christian... so I told him that if Jesus sent an Angel to take him, not to fight the Angel, but to go. We know how he is suffering and although our hearts will break with his passing, there is some comfort in knowing he is with his Lord and he is in Heaven getting things ready for the rest of us to follow.

I went home, put a pot of water on the stove for tea, and the phone rang...

[all.of.me]

36. that happened to a friend of mine with both her parents

they died a couple years apart. she went acrosss country to visit, expecting them to pass while she was there. each time, they died before she got back home.

i don't know what is going through my mother's head, what she needs to do, or if she needs to see someone. i am sure she needs to make peace somewhere. i am going to try and talk to her on the phone tomorrow to let her know she did the best she could and that i forgive her mistakes. i sure would like to see her reconcile with my brother, but he never goes there, even though he is about 30 minutes away. he's just waiting on his check.

as of tonight, the doctor gives her two weeks with a feeding tube, one week without. her heart is in perfect shape, it's very strong, and we think that is what's keeping her alive. other than that, it's just a matter of time.

[JuniperLea]

42. Any news?

I just keep thinking about your brother. Sad.

My eldest son hasn't talked to me since I divorced his father. I hate this kind of family conflict.

How are you holding up? And your mother?

[all.of.me]

43. thanks for asking.

as of this morning, the doctor was going to put her back on her anti-depressants to ease her mind and her pain. then we will wait another day or two and decide what to do. when she went into the hospital, they took her off all her (19!!) meds, except those for her heart, so they are going to replace these and see what happens.

i feel we are already violating her living will with the tube, and i told that to the doctor. i want to be sure we would not relive the nightmare of my uncle - a feeding tube kept him alive for 18 months, but he was unconscious. it was that very event that got my parents to get living wills and dnr's. so i KNOW that she would not want the life she has now.

her doctor understood me, and said that he is as willing as anyone to remove it. they just want to get her comfortable. her morphine dose is very high and not working.

we are going to lose her, it's just a matter of when. and i think we will keep my brother out of the picture until the very end.

thanks for your thoughts.

[Bluzmann57]

12. Cannot answer your question

But you are in our thoughts. Very sorry to hear about this and good luck with a very personal and private decision.

[all.of.me]

14. thanks.

[pecwae]

19. My sincerest sympathies

I had to discontinue my mother from life support a few years ago. She'd had major heart surgery, seemed to be doing well after 30 days, then nosedived with CHF. She had no living will, but I had health care POA. Before she went in for surgery she said if something went wrong I would 'know what to do.' My siblings all wanted to keep her alive at all costs.

[all.of.me]

23. thanks.

that sounds similar to what happened with my cousins around my uncle's death. ONE cousin said to keep his feeding tube, so they did, then my uncle was a vegetable for 18 months before finally dying. that's when my parents made their living wills and said 'no way.'

[malaise]

32. My youngest sister made it easy for us

She had a living will. She went into a coma on a Thursday earlier this year and died at 12.20am Sunday morning. She gave us all time to get there and everyone kept her company until the end. It's hard to have to make the decision but it's not fair to keep terminally ill loved ones in unnecessary pain. All of us followed our mother and wrote living wills.

Hug her up big time.
Edit - add.

[all.of.me]

40. sorry for your loss.

the doctor said tonight that she won't make it even with a feeding tube. she is exhausted from this pain she is in, pain that they can't find. but with a dnr and a living will, they are doing what little they can, just keeping the morphine coming to keep her comfortable.

thanks for your thoughts.

[Vickers]

22. It really depends on what is keeping them alive. I signed the papers

for my dad, and he lasted about 6 minutes.

Ask them to remove the various stuff while you and your family are out of the room, and clean her up a little (tape and dried blood, if any)

:hug::hug::hug::hug::hug:

Strength to you, friend.

[all.of.me]

24. wow. that's amazing.

thanks for your thoughts.

[Vickers]

25. Like I said, it really depends on what measures are currently

being employed. My dad was on a ventilator, and had a bunch of tubes and IVs and etc. etc.

Ask the doctor, and they will tell you what they think. Mine said "less than ten minutes" and he was right. I got a second opinion from a doctor in the same field that I picked at random from the hospital directory, and he said the same thing (without knowing what the other doctor said).

The reason I mention having them clean them up, is just for the peace of mind for you and your family. I told them I wanted it to be nice (or as nice as it can be), so they removed all the stuff and cleaned him up, even combed his hair.

If you are there, remember there can be several "last breaths" if they have been on a vent, so be prepared for some loud and unexpected breaths right at the end.

Sorry to be so graphic and clinical, but frankly I wish someone would have been more forthright with me about the whole process. :(

[cookiebird]

26. Prayers

for you and your family...this is a difficult decision, but you are doing a merciful act.

[porphyrian]

28. Many would say she was already dead.

Her body died a couple of weeks later. But, since there was no hope of recovery, and little chance that much, if any, of her mind and personality existed for years previous to removing the tubes, the argument can be made that she was dead for years. The problem in situations like this is that many religions believe the mind/person/ego resides in some unproven spiritual space regardless of the body as long as it's alive, thus the "Save Terry" phenomenon. Science dictates that the mind/person/ego is a result of our nervous system, specifically our brain, and there is evidence to support this. Religions, on the other hand, has no verifiable evidence to support their claim, and most don't require it as their followers accept their dogma on faith.

[all.of.me]

31. right.

i don't think you read beyond the subject of my post. this has to do with my mother, not the politics/religion/whatever of the schiavo case.

[SCRUBDASHRUB]

34. You and your family are in my prayers.

[all.of.me]

37. thank you.

[rockymountaindem]

35. Peace be with you

I hope all will be well.

[all.of.me]

38. thank you.

[nashbridges]

41. My uncle died after 12 days

But he was married to my aunt, a retired nun (don't ask - it was legal in the church and within her order). He wasn't fed after three strokes in rapid succession, but she insisted he wasn't going because he had unresolved issues with one of his neices.

My aunt arranged for her to come say goodbye and let him know he was cool with her, and he died two hours after she came to tell him goodbye. Freaky, to say the least.

My aunt loved that man like no one else, but she also had such a strong belief in God that she really thought he was better off passing. I found it the height of irony that she worked to help him die, but more power to her.