I am so brokenhearted.

[sepia_steel]

I'm shocked that one of my best friends in the entire world (who's husband is in the military) is not interested in knowing the truth about why we're in Iraq. She says that * isn't a bad guy, he just makes dumb decisions. She is of the position that it isn't worth educating herself either way (right OR left wing), because she believes that no matter the (ASTRONOMICAL) amount of information available, we'll only ever get bits of the truth, and even that is all fluff, and we're not EVER meant to know why we're really in Iraq. That's government business, and no matter how much information we have, we'll never know the truth.

I asked her how can she can possibly hold ANY position on ANY issue when she is not even willing to get ANY information to affirm her beliefs... to no avail. She hates Cindy Sheehan - she thinks Cindy is shaming her son and she does not understand that we just want to know why it's okay with Bush that people die for PROVEN lies. She's just not interested in any facts whatsoever - because no matter what she knows she still won't really know anything, in her mind.

I can respect her cynicism, obviously, and her reluctance to trust any source of any info. But she's also not political at all in one direction or another. But what if, god forbid, she lost her husband to this lie? In her mind, to question the circumstances would be an insult to his memory.

Since they live on a military base overseas she doesn't get the facts on TV, but she doesn't believe in anything on TV news anyway. I can't get through to her. She doesn't understand why I'm so sad about this and I tried to ecplain to her that it makes me sad that people won't even find out about the people that affect our laws and lives.

She just doesn't want to know. And it breaks my heart. I just don't understand.

And please don't post insults about her, I can't take that. I love her like family. Her heart is good; she just doesn't understand.

[Dora]

1. If she has the energy to hate Cindy Sheehan

then she should have the energy to educate herself about the issues.

If not, then she's expressing an uninformed opinion, and you can still love her and tell her that's what she's doing.

[sepia_steel]

2. i have told her this believe me.

it is an ongoing conversation, as we speak. i guess she figures that knowing the truth isn't worht the disapointment. i've told her that if she looked into it she'd change her mind, but she doesnt' believe me.

[FreedomAngel82]

27. I agree

She's just following the rightwing propoganda on hating Cindy Sheehan. I guess she hates John Kerry too for his protesting Vietnam and the other vets? I guess she hates the Iraq veterans against the war group too eh?

[Long Time Lurker]

3. It isn't that she doesn't want to know

She can't know. It's too painful and will shatter her whole belief system, her trust. She has to believe that her husband is doing a noble deed. How could she believe that he could lose his life to lies?

The military spouses and families (unless they have suffered their own loss) are still hanging on staunchly to the lies..er..lines fed to them from above.

[Arugula Latte]

5. Welcome to DU (sort of! ... you've been here) Long Time!

Glad you decided to start posting!

:toast: :hi:

[LeFleur1]

8. Choosing to be Uninformed

QUOTE: She can't know. It's too painful and will shatter her whole belief system, her trust. She has to believe that her husband is doing a noble deed. How could she believe that he could lose his life to lies?

The military spouses and families (unless they have suffered their own loss) are still hanging on staunchly to the lies..er..lines fed to them from above.
END QUOTE.

Exactly. It is the reason she chooses not to be informed. It takes guts for military members and families to admit * has put our people in danger for unstable or madeup reasons. It's much easier to pretend they are fighting for something noble. It takes courage to admit that our 'leader' has been oh so wrong and people close to us are in danger of dying or being maimed because of it.

Could this woman hate Cindy because she is a constant reminder of the truth?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

23. People die "for nothing" (what an awful phrase) every day.

They get in car crashes. Random criminals shoot them. And -- sometimes, just sometimes, these things happen as a result of severe misjudgments. Like "Oh, I don't really need to wear the seatbelt." Or, "I'm going to help defeat terrorism by going to Iraq!"

It is a painful but unavoidable part of life. NOBODY "dies for nothing." I'd be more worried about having LIVED for nothing.

[Mairead]

24. Yep, it's like the women who "don't know" that their husbands are

"visiting" their daughters at night: they know on some level, but they can't admit it to themselves because that would wreck their lives no matter what. So they passively sacrifice their daughters instead.

[Arugula Latte]

4. I think because her husband is in the military

she's too invested in having Iraq be at least somewhat worthwhile; she probably suspects the truth but to "go there" in her mind would force her to confront too many painful issues so she's just trying to whitewash things and keep them at bay.

[skylarmae]

6. how is it possible - 'her heart is good' yet, doesn't seek the truth

or in tune enough to be able to recognize the truth when presented to her???? I always thought that goodness, truth, progression and natural curiosity were all intertwined. IMHO

[sepia_steel]

11. You don't know her.

Uninformed people can be... stupid. I was guilty of it once.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

7. Leave her in your dust. At this point in Watergate many denied any problem

People don't change until they are ready to change. Just keep pointing out facts when you can calmly, but if you don't try to score points you can keep the friendship and let her come to an understanding in time.

[sepia_steel]

13. She listens to what i have to say unless it has anything to do withthe war

i have no intentions of writing her off jsut because i don't agree with her.

[Whoa_Nelly]

9. Seems like for those who are "set" in their ideology

have an epiphany when something happens that affects them on a deeply emotional level. For the woman you know, I certainly hope that should she have an epiphany, it doesn't come as a result of her husband's death in Iraq. However, when someone has committed to their ideals, the only thing you can do is wait and be there if, or when, things change for her.

[bigscott]

12. there are people I love that are like this too

but I cannot be around them anymore - this lie has gone on so long and with so many dead that to NOT face it is criminal. My cousin is in the army - he did Desert Storm and is now over in iraq. His family supports him 100% and support * 100%. they see the two as linked. I tried explaining that I support my cousin 100% in his efforts to come home alive. I told them I thought * should be in prison for what he is doing. They hold that against me. I dont care - silence = death as the "old" saying goes:patriot:

[Whoa_Nelly]

19. Hope your cousin comes home safely, alive and well

:hug:

[sepia_steel]

20. I won't be giving up on her any time soon

I just had to talk about it. I went into my bathroom and cried.

[FreedomAngel82]

28. Yep

I hate how they link the two together. I guess the soliders at Opt Truth and Iraq war veterans against the war don't count huh? I guess John Kerry, Paul Hackett, Wes Clark, John Glenn and others like them who have served against this war don't count huh?

[pocket]

10. nobody wants to think their husband is killing or dying for evil

maybe after it's all over she'll think a little more freely.

[sepia_steel]

14. I certainly hope so.

I explained the whole CIA case to her and I plan to keep chipping away at her reluctance.

[FreedomAngel82]

29. Good

Show her Paul Hackett's site. He was in Iraq too but he's against it. Maybe that will help? I remember reading there's another Iraq running for Congress as well after Hackett lost the last race he was in. Does anybody remember his name? I don't have his link or anything anymore.

[Long Time Lurker]

15. Actually

Her denial makes perfect psychological sense.

Her mental health and emotional well being is tied up in the belief that her husband is "spreading democracy" and "bringing freedom to oppressed people".

How can she live with herself, if she thinks her husband is murdering innocent people in a war based on lies?

[sepia_steel]

16. He's not in Iraq.

And so far no word that he will be.

[sandnsea]

17. Maybe what she's saying is

"I disagree with you, but I don't want to fight with you because I love you like family." Because I know sometimes I tell my own family stupid shit because I don't want to fight with them, like isn't it all just a sad mess and then change the subject. Maybe that's what she's really doing with you because she actually supports Bush.

[sepia_steel]

18. She doesn't really support him - she doesn't know much about any of it

one way or another. It's just sort of a 'surely our government can't be like that' sort of thing. She didn't vote. She is absolutely not informed enough to like him or dislike him.

[FreedomAngel82]

30. Have her google up and read

about Operation Northwoods. And if the government can do Vietnam why not Iraq?

[Javaman]

21. This womans logic is blinding...

So she doesn't want to take a position on anything, yet she takes a position on Cindy. The hypocrisy of the ignorant right will be their down fall. This is the ultimate form of the sheep mentality.

It's easy for her to be fed the news, but difficult for her to understand the news. Taking the talking points down in big gulps is the trend folks. Actually, finding out if a story is true or not or having actually read, is the hard part.

We are living the age of the lowest common denominator. Where the tinfoil hat wearers, the least informed and the politically ignorant are held up in high esteem, while those that are informed, check the facts and are politically sa-vie' are looked down upon.

This is the thing that I continually find so completely perplexing about what is going on today. The complete and utter dumbing down of America. And the apparent acceptance of it.

Like Homer Simpson once said, "Pfft, you can prove anything with facts".

[sepia_steel]

22. No, she's got her position

she just doesn't want to know if she's right or not. Like others have said, maybe this IS her way of dealing with a military husband. And if she's a right winger, she has no idea that she is one.

[VLC98]

25. I'm curious about her husband.

Do you think they talk politics and is he the domineering type?

[ArkDem]

26. It really kills me too when people don't do what I want them to do.

[okieinpain]

31. oh she's just ashamed that she bought into that bullshit from the

repugs. she'll probably come around in a decade or so.