Who Is Responsible For Howard Dean's Slide?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

[mitchum]

1. Physician, heal thyself

[HazMat]

33. lol

[beyurslf]

2. I gotta go with Howard. He is

ultimately responsible for his campaign.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

3. What Happened To Joe Trippi?

He was supposed to be a genius...

[On the Road]

7. He's Responsible for Not Mounting a Self-Defense

that in practice would have been almost impossible.

Charges of lying and insanity are among the lowest you can level at someone, because it calls every word into question everything they say and is almost impossible to defend against. Such charges are dangerous, powerful, and are best used as a last resort by an unscrupulous opponent.

Gore was charged with lying. Dean was charged with anger and instability. Neither was even remotely justified.

What's even more insidious about the charges against Dean is that for Dean to counter them, he would have had to sacrifice the very qualities that made his campaign successful. The price of so-called sanity would have been unilateral disarmament.

At least so it may have seemed to Dean. Maybe there was a way to do it. Maybe he should have been a chameleon, calmed down, and changed into a moderate centrist front-runner. You could make an argument for that. But I don't blame him for not squaring that circle. None of the other major candidates were put in even remotely the same bind.

[KoKo]

22. Good points Ribo.......and Agree........he would have had to change who he

was. Some attacks are too hard to refute without digging oneself into a deeper hole. They went after Gore that way and have trashed Dems Since. We Dems don't seem to be able to deal with it. Need a team of "sports psychologists" or something. Better ways to deal with Whore Media and Winger attacks.

[DemBones DemBones]

27. What do you mean Dean could have "changed into a

moderate centrist front-runner?" He IS a moderate centrist and was the front runner in the polls for months.. And he did calm down after Iowa. What would he be changing? He never claimed to be a liberal, AFAIK. His supporters never claimed he was a liberal, AFAIK. The media chose to call him liberal and anti-war for reasons of their own. The "liberal" label probably came from his signing that civil unions bill in Vermont, with his stance against this war in Iraq buttressing it. But, unless you believe that "liberal" and "anti-war" are insulting phrases, that's not the media working against him.

So far, I do not feel Dean is being "Gored." The media spread inaccurate stories about Gore, no matter how many times they were given the facts. They made him out to be stiff, aloof, pedantic, and a liar, while Bush, they told us, was the guy you'd like to have a beer with.

Dean got an awful lot of good press for a long, long time. His gaffes were covered, so were Clark's -- but they made the gaffes that led to the coverage so when it comes right down to it, Clark and Dean have hurt their own campaigns. Clark's never run for office before and the media are now saying he was not ready for prime time yet. But it's not only the media saying that, voters are saying that, too. Dean's on the national screen now and he can't seem to rein his mouth in. His supporters admire that, but others are made uneasy by it, thinking that we don't need a president who has to issue "What I meant to say. . ." or "I misspoke when I said. . ." statements regularly. (Being "better than Bush" is not good enough if Dems wants to get all the votes we possibly can.

I've never said, or thought, that Dean was an angry guy, at least no more than many of us are angry about what has happened to our country. I don't like his record or policies and I find him very arrogant and thin-skinned ("I'm picking buckshot out of my rear." ) I think that has hurt him with many people, people who see him the same way I do. But getting fired up making a stump speech is not anger.

However, I found his speech after the Iowa caucuses disturbing when I first saw it (live), before anyone had the opportunity to tell me what to think. I was surprised that the anchors on CNN were making little comment on it for a couple of hours afterward, maybe longer. Dean really blew it with that speech. It hurt him a lot. Sure, the media re-played it a lot, but they re-played cuts from Kerry's and Edwards's speech, too. Viewers could compare the three for themselves. Edwards and Kerry gave excellent speeches, each built into passion from a beginning of speaking about how pleased they were with the vote. That's what Dean needed to do, too, but he went way over the top. He decided to play it that way, he knew there were television cameras there and it was a live broadcast, so he can't legitimately complain that the media covered his speech.

[On the Road]

29. Yes, Dean Could and Should Have Changed Who He Was

in response to being Gored. He was Gored not with invented lies, but with invented anger and instability. He was a moderate centrist government in the public record, but not in the media and not in the way he presented himself.

It was a nasty trick, but Dean needed to respond sooner and defuse the charges.

The media had a right to cast a critical eye on Dean, but not to invent a false and unelectable personality. I think they have the primary responsibility.

But every candidate needs to be able to respond to unfair attacks and not play into their hands.

[Zomby Woof]

4. over and over

For months I have warned that Dean and only Dean will cause his own demise. Blaming the media is sad, for it reveals a tendency to scapegoat and evade responsibility - which we have had enough of in high places as it is.

[gWbush is Mabus]

6. when you tell the masses 637 times that dean is unelectable, but

Kerry is electable, they start to believe it.

70% think Saddam was behind 9/11

Are you gonna blame Saddam for that?

[arewethereyet]

24. WHY would someone suggest Dean is unelectable ?

Because of all him boneheaded moves, thats why. Is it any wonder they believe ? How is it possible not to see this ?

[waldenx]

10. by your logic

the media has nothing to do with Kucinich being ignored.
You are wrong as usual.

[Zomby Woof]

14. But!

I never carp and whine about the media concerning DK, and blame his lack of coverage on an apathetic public. If people demanded more coverage, and gave him more votes, he would get more coverage - a self-fulfilling cycle.

I am sorry, but there is nothing wrong about what I said. Most Dean supporters blame the media for his failures, some don't.

Also, DK was never the frontrunner like Dean, so the media issue has never been in the forefront of DK discussions.

[LuminousX]

5. I am.

I haven't done enough.

[xultar]

8. Yo' Mama n/t

[xultar]

9. I don't like your poll, Where's Clark...the bias continues...n/t

;)

[evil_orange_cat]

11. Howard Dean

The media didn't make up his rant last week. The media might influence some policy opinions in this country, but it isn't responsible for Dean's slide.

[Capn Sunshine]

49. You didn't see that speech did you

You just saw the media edit.

It was anything but a rant.
Isn't "Entertainment Tonite" on about now?

[madrchsod]

12. one word

hamm.

[californiahippie]

13. People are scared

I think a lot of people (like me) are scared to vote for Dean because they worry that he can't win against Bush. I actually like Dean, but think the other candidates are more "user friendly". Dean comes across as kind of radical and liberal to too many people. Personally, if Dean won the precidency, I would be thrilled. But I feel it's too dangerous to put him up against Bush. Not a time I want to gamble.
(Sorry if it offends any Dean supporters,not meant to)

[WillyT]

15. Yep, Looks Like Were Gonna Be Votin For Someone Who Has...

the personality of a fence post, but hey, anything to get rid of shrub.

Well, almost anything.

:mad:

Let me also say...

That after voting straight Dem ticket every time since 1974 (Jerry Brown Gov. CA), that if WE and KERRY (or whoever) don't win this time, I will be parting ways with the Democratic Party. After Bush installs a couple more Scalia\Thomas clone in the SOTUS, the only thing keeping me here in the former U.S. of A. will be my family.

Since it seems that the rightwing has successfully conned the nation into listing to the right, and Democratic opposition has followed suit, if I'm gonna hang around here, I'm goin Green, or whatever third party represents my views and desires for the kind of society I want for myself and my family.

Clinton running home to execute a mentally disabled 'criminal' is just one example of how low we'll stoop to get elected. Hopefully Kerry is above that. Hopefully the Democratic party is above that. If not...

Then the party has definitely left me... with the LEFT!!!

:grr:

So John Kerry... If it's to be you, you'd better not fuck it up!!!

:kick:

[californiahippie]

41. Good post

I'm with you.

[Dhalgren]

46. Me too.

.

[George_Bonanza]

16. Dean's perceived as too liberal, yet isn't far beyond the centre

Isn't that a double whammy? Firstly, he has a hard enough time getting elected since many people mistaken him for McGovern. Then, if he does miraculously get in, all that trouble was for nothing since he's to the right of guys like Kerry.

[Capn Sunshine]

48. He's only unelectable if you don't vote for him

If you want change, REAL change, you'll stop listening to the media and LISTEN to Howard Dean. Really listen.

Every issue is articulated at http://www.deanforamerica.com

Join us or be content with the same shit in a different bag.

[Uzybone]

17. Slide? What slide?

All I see is two great victories in IA and NH. The media has convinced you that there is a slide. The media and Kerry and Bush and Rove have all deceived you sheeple.

[Indiana Democrat]

18. There it is...The good ol' "Sheep" slander.

Geeeeeze...

[ecstatic]

19. He sharply slid in the polls after Sharpton's question

about his all white cabinet. I think Sharpton may have played a much larger part in this than we think.

[WillyT]

20. You May Be Right... But That Opens Up A Whole 'Nother Can Of Worms !!!

I'm hopin you're wrong though, I really am.

[Clark Can WIN]

26. I think it was the water torture effect

republican lite
confederate flags
cockroaches
only white guy talking about race
Mr. McCauliffe, make them stop
SIT DOWN!
Old Iowa caucus tapes
Al Sharptons querry
Yyyyyeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaahhhhhhh



:nuke:

[ArtieBoy]

21. Up from 3rd to 2nd is a slide? A slide UP, maybe! n/t

[Clark Can WIN]

23. Howard

Unless he's not responsible for himself, either way the same.

[Terwilliger]

25. What slide?

Howard Dean was just some Governor from Vermont (who IS the Montana governor, anyway?)

He has placed 3rd and 2nd in national primaries (and caucuses)

He's doing pretty damned well

[Bucky]

30. This slide

Note the blue line. He went from 39% to 15%, then back up to 26% on primary day. Friend, that is a downward slide no matter how you spin it. He got almost half of his losses back within a week, but that's still a faltering in the homestretch

[janx]

51. "the homestretch" ??

The primaries have just begun!

Are you sure that you're not using a little of your own projection here? ;-)

[fshrink]

28. Other

America tends to go for the "come back kid". To come back you've got to slide. Not saying this was intentional. But a President has often to earn respect by overcoming a setback. You could say it's some built-in self-regulatory mechanism in our political life. Doesn't matter who is directly responsible. With the kind of duplicitous cowardice we had for the last 3 years, America looks for the right stuff.

[Piperay]

31. The 'hype' itself...

when someone is hyped as the number one there is no where else to go but down.

[Cascadian]

32. The mainstream media, Republicans, and certain Democrats.

All of them. They helped contribute to Dean's stumble but I am optimistic he can pull himself out of this funk. He has to.

John

[zwielicht]

34. the newsweek poll

i think the ridiculous newsweek poll results pretending kerry was the only one who would beat bush played a big role, as well as the media in general. anyone who believes kerry scares the rethugs most has to be blind, consume no media at all or believe they are "fair and balanced".

[DemocratSinceBirth]

35. I Think Trippi Deserves More Votes...

NT

[GreenPartyVoter]

36. The Media, DLC, Dean. in that order

[pintobean]

37. Last straw

Until yesterday, I was still going to vote for Dean. Hiring a lobbyist was the last straw.

[CWebster]

38. No question, the media

Leading up to Iowa they highlighted negative cover stories on every major publication, emphasizing the perception of doubt and lack of electibility. I saw one pundit accuse Fineman, to his face, the author of one of the damning articles, of direct responsibility. Then there were all those evening news stories about wife abusers and other reputation-smearing attacks-- and the blitz, the almost inconcivable media blitz of the Iowa rally. It has always been apparent that the NYTimes was angling for Kerry, and here is the evidence, just a few short weeks before Iowa, when the media launched it's unified frontal attack, that Kerry was rounding up the head honchos:

From Will Pitt's Truthout article:

There are but a few weeks to go before the Iowa caucuses and the New Hampshire primary. Time has grown short. In an effort to galvanize the message Kerry wants to deliver in the time remaining, he convened a powerful roster of journalists and columnists in the New York City apartment of Al Franken last Thursday. The gathering could not properly be called a meeting or a luncheon. It was a trial. The journalists served as prosecuting attorneys, jury and judge. The crowd I joined in Franken’s living room was comprised of:
Al Franken and his wife Franni;
Rick Hertzberg, senior editor for the New Yorker;
David Remnick, editor for the New Yorker;
Jim Kelly, managing editor for Time Magazine;
Howard Fineman, chief political correspondent for Newsweek;
Jeff Greenfield, senior correspondent and analyst for CNN;
Frank Rich, columnist for the New York Times;
Eric Alterman, author and columnist for MSNBC and the Nation;
Art Spiegelman, Pulitzer Prize winning cartoonist/author of ‘Maus’;
Richard Cohen, columnist for the Washington Post;
Fred Kaplan, columnist for Slate;
Jacob Weisberg, editor of Slate and author;
Jonathan Alter, senior editor and columnist for Newsweek;
Philip Gourevitch, columnist for the New Yorker;
Calvin Trillin, freelance writer and author;
Edward Jay Epstein, investigative reporter and author;
Arthur Schlesinger, Jr., who needs no introduction.

http://truthout.org/docs_03/121003A.shtml


There is no denying Dean's appeal and broad grassroots support, but equally obvious is that he lacked insider status and conventional party connections. That served to throw him off game when Kerry called in the operatives.

Trippi may have master-minded internet grassroots organization, but he did not effectively transfer it to on the ground action or efficiency or top down organization that is essential in this part of the process.

[John_H]

39. Uh........Democratic voters?

Specifically the 80-85 percent who realized Dean didn't have a snowballs chance in Hell beating Chimp.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

40. Goes back to Dean

Process: Dean in....different result out.

[henslee]

42. I'll tell ya who -- the friggin' soundman who miked him sans room noise!

Yup, the evil empire has operatives at every level.

[nolabels]

43. Other/Please Explain, okay

That would be the 5,000 or so overtly rich white men who don't want you to know about them or what they are up to.

We had little glimers of them here in Kalliefornia when they instaled Arnold (the big effing liar that he is). I don't like watching shawdows on the wall, but at least it's not that hard to watch the movements that are made by them, if one has the patience to sit back and take notice.

If I were to blame anybody,
it would be the US education system along with Moms and Dads for not making sure thier children got a REAL education

[Ravy]

44. Well, obviously Dean himself is ultimately responsible... but

I think the slide started when Tom Harkin joined the campaign in Iowa.

Tom Harkin is a great man, and a great man for our party. The problem is not with Tom Harkin, per se, it is that his style of stumping is SO MUCH different from Howard Dean's.

I think Dean, when he was following Tom Harkin speaking to the crowd, tried to retain their enthusiasm in a Harkin-like way. Screaming his message. Works well for Harkin, not so well for Dean.

It is VERY easy when public speaking in a forum like that to pick up some of the traits from others speaking with you. Howard got away from his normal demeanor and for a couple of weeks, became a rock star on the stump.

When he got back to his normal style post-Iowa, he began to gain again in NH, and I suspect will continue to gain throughout the primaries.

I am not a Dean supporter. I am really on the fence and leaning toward Clark. But I do LIKE Dean, and would be thrilled if he were the nominee.

Ravy

[robbedvoter]

45. Believing his own media - he got cocky and made mistakes

Just like Kerry is now ("we don't need no stinkin' South") and coopting other candidates as VP whether they want it or not. Nothing gets you more votes that obnoxious arrogance!

[Iverson]

47. Whichever contractor put it in!

I'm assuming that he didn't get one of those cheap aluminum ones that you can take home in a pickup truck.

Ditto for swings and monkey bars.

[sangh0]

50. OK, 'fess up!

Who said "What slide?" :-)