I will not get on this ridiculous Kerry bandwagon.

[Zynx]

Everyone and their uncle seems to be wanting to get on this Kerry bandwagon, but I won't. He is being propped up by a whole bunch of media nonsense that keeps beating the drum of electability to the point where everyone associates the name of John Kerry with the word "electability". This is ridiculous. He is not even close to the most electable candidate, but yet he is getting a coronation on this issue because Democrats are so scared of taking a risk that they are almost gauranteeing failure.

Kerry has a very unimpressive Senate record with no major bills of any consequence to his name and horrible calls when it comes to national security on both Iraq wars and cutting CIA funding. He has never been a leader in the Senate either on any major domestic legislation either. He is the very model of a New England elitist liberal with $600 haircuts, a $10 million house on Beacon Hill, and a pompous attitude that will drive moderates away the more they see of it. All he has is this record of service on Vietnam. That's it. Let me tell my fellow Democrats something they may find shocking: This election will not be about Vietnam. People don't care at all anymore about Vietnam. He doesn't have any major domestic reforms to speak of and will not take a tough stand on the most important domestic problem we face: the budget deficit. The only way I see him winning, once he gets more press scrutiny, is if Iraq and or the economy falls apart. However, he is not the best suited to capitalize on either one of these. John Edwards can speak more effectively on economic issues because he speaks to working class people credibly. On Iraq, both Dean and Clark made the right calls when Kerry showed that he had no leadership abilities and they are thus better able to capitalize on this issue.

John Kerry's whole campaign is based on the notion that he is the safe choice. Why does he campaign on this? Because he doesn't take any hard stances on anything. I'm looking for leadership. John Forbes Kerry is not that leader. He has even conceded that his positions are grounded in what he thinks the public is most comfortable with when he said that Howard Dean's positions on Iraq and taxes would "kill us in the polls in November". This shows that he is not willing to take the tough stands we need in a leader. It is a continuation of the trend we saw when he voted for the Iraq war resolution in October of 2002 just two months before he began his presidential run. He is a shrewd political animal, always looking to gain political advantage with his moves rather than stand up for what is right. However, he will not be able to win the White House like this. He has no bold plan for America, no vision for our future because he is unwilling to be a leader. Nearly every move in his entire political career has been based on what he thinks is good for John Kerry.

I can not in good conscience vote for John Forbes Kerry. He presents nothing unique, nothing remarkable, nothing to excite me and a lot to turn me off such as the IWR vote and the subsequent repositioning of his position on it. I don't care how popular the war is with the American public and how it would be "smarter" to nominate someone who supported it. The truth is, that gets us nowhere. Iraq is a mess and a majority of Americans say it wasn't worth the 520+ dead and 2,500+ wounded and the nearly $200 billion. If we nominate Kerry we concede this argument to Bush. There is no way his votes and statements and any criticism he offers during the general election will be seen as effective once it is clear how many times he has flip-flopped on Iraq. Not only is he unable to capitalize on this issue, he also is not strong on domestic policy with no vision for America and no plan to turn around the deficit. I don't care how "smart" it is to vote for John Kerry. I think he is a very dull, uninspiring candidate who offers no real change in this country other than a possible shift in party control in the White House and I think that he has proven himself to be a follower and not a leader. Not only do I think he would not be a solid candidate to take on Bush, I think, given his inability to lead on the tough issues, he would be a poor president.

These views of mine will not change. I can not bring my self to like John Kerry. I nearly cried out of control last night when he won in NH out of severe depression. I deep down do not like the guy to such an extent that I would not be pleased to see him as president. I would vote for him if he is nominated, but I would do so without joy and not in good conscience. Because of this, I urge those who support other candidates, which is a majority, to vote for the candidate most likely to beat Kerry in your state. This way we can derail him and stop this.

[jpgray]

1. Well, at least you're on the vanity thread bandwagon (nt)

[democracyindanger]

2. lol nt

[krkaufman]

70. Don't worry about the bandwagon; just meet us at the voting booth in Nov.

Hey, don't worry about the bandwagon. I don't care how we all get there, so long as we all meet-up at the voting booth in November.

ABB

[Zynx]

4. I wish you would take me more seriously.

You should try to understand why I don't like Kerry.

[ibegurpard]

9. Trust me, there are a LOT of people who feel the same as you.

eom

[molly]

17. Very obviously not!

[ibegurpard]

29. I take it you haven't been reading many posts here today?

There are a LOT of people who have the same trepidations as this poster. To state otherwise is flying in the face of reality.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Snivi Yllom]

38. ditto

These people's opinions don't matter..it's ok Kerry OKayed the war.

[sendero]

74. Like me...

... I agree with the original post. Kerry is just another me-too, play-it-safe politician. Without Dean's having paved the way, he would still be yammering about Bush* being a "decent guy".

Oh well, what can you do? If people really think Caspar Milquetoast can beat the Bush* media machine, that's fine.

And I will vote for him, I will vote Dem if Attila the Hun gets the nomination. But my hopes for victory are diminished.

[bearfartinthewoods]

79. He presents nothing unique, nothing remarkable, nothing to excite me

kerry is our bob dole...

[Clark Can WIN]

84. kerry is our bob dole...

I don't hate Kerry, but I find him very under-inspiring. I want something a little more exilerating than not Bush.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

25. I understand the you posted a bunch of tripe that isn't true

that is why I don't take you seriously.

as to your major points:

Kerry was a formidable opponent to the Bushies and to BCCI and Iran Contra...of course his work was moot after Poppy's pardons and Clinton's refusal to pursue the issues.

Kerry has been a MAIN player in KYOTO which would have actually CREATED an economy around conserving and WOULD save jobs since polluting companies couldn't just high tail it to China (as they would use up their credits) so polluting industries would be FORCED to hedge their greenhouse gasses rather than create them in nations where no regulatory model exists.


Kerry has sat on numerous committees vetting policy and frankly WRITING and carrying legislation is USUALLY a pay off to someone. Vetting it and removing dangerous language and conducting hearings that KILL it if need be is JUST as important.

[jpgray]

48. Okay.

He is being propped up by a whole bunch of media nonsense that keeps beating the drum of electability to the point where everyone associates the name of John Kerry with the word "electability".

He won Iowa with almost continuous negative coverage leading up to the primary. Only when his poll numbers began to change did anyone say "boo".

This is ridiculous. He is not even close to the most electable candidate, but yet he is getting a coronation on this issue because Democrats are so scared of taking a risk that they are almost gauranteeing failure.

This is all conjecture a this point. He is not inevitably the nominee from Iowa and NH. Democrats decide our nominee--that's just the way the system works.

Kerry has a very unimpressive Senate record with no major bills of any consequence to his name and horrible calls when it comes to national security on both Iraq wars and cutting CIA funding. He has never been a leader in the Senate either on any major domestic legislation either. He is the very model of a New England elitist liberal with $600 haircuts, a $10 million house on Beacon Hill, and a pompous attitude that will drive moderates away the more they see of it.

He has one of the most liberal records in the Senate. And can you say Kyoto, Iran/Contra, and BCCI?

All he has is this record of service on Vietnam. That's it. Let me tell my fellow Democrats something they may find shocking: This election will not be about Vietnam. People don't care at all anymore about Vietnam.

Then why is he winning elections? Your premise is that all he is is Vietnam, but then you state that no one cares about Vietnam. How does this rationalize his two victories?

He doesn't have any major domestic reforms to speak of and will not take a tough stand on the most important domestic problem we face: the budget deficit.

He was part of the Senate that balanced budgets under Clinton.

The only way I see him winning, once he gets more press scrutiny, is if Iraq and or the economy falls apart. However, he is not the best suited to capitalize on either one of these. John Edwards can speak more effectively on economic issues because he speaks to working class people credibly. On Iraq, both Dean and Clark made the right calls when Kerry showed that he had no leadership abilities and they are thus better able to capitalize on this issue.

Dean and Clark are only marginally better. Dean because he supported Biden/Lugar, Clark because he says he opposed the war. There are conflicting statements from both (particularly Clark), and neither had to vote.

John Kerry's whole campaign is based on the notion that he is the safe choice. Why does he campaign on this?

Since when does he campaign on being the safe choice? Again, Iowans found him all on their own--kerry was done according to the press.

Because he doesn't take any hard stances on anything. I'm looking for leadership. John Forbes Kerry is not that leader.

Vietnam, Iran/Contra, BCCI, Kyoto.

He has even conceded that his positions are grounded in what he thinks the public is most comfortable with when he said that Howard Dean's positions on Iraq and taxes would "kill us in the polls in November".

He's right. Dean is right about the taxes (his views have shifted to 'not sure' at this point, though), but Kerry is right about the electorate. That's why Dean is reconsidering.

It is a continuation of the trend we saw when he voted for the Iraq war resolution in October of 2002 just two months before he began his presidential run. He is a shrewd political animal, always looking to gain political advantage with his moves rather than stand up for what is right.

What political advantage was there to be gained from Kyoto, Iran/Contra or BCCI? What advantage is there from having the most environmentally friendly record of any candidate? You piss off a lot of PAC donors (which Kerry didn't take money from in his Senate runs) that way.

However, he will not be able to win the White House like this. He has no bold plan for America, no vision for our future because he is unwilling to be a leader. Nearly every move in his entire political career has been based on what he thinks is good for John Kerry.

His stances are pretty much like Howard Dean's, except he is more liberal on the death penalty, gun control and the environment. All these are viewed as "politically unsound" positions. Your premises are always false in this WHOLE post.

I think he is a very dull, uninspiring candidate who offers no real change in this country other than a possible shift in party control in the White House and I think that he has proven himself to be a follower and not a leader. Not only do I think he would not be a solid candidate to take on Bush, I think, given his inability to lead on the tough issues, he would be a poor president.

If all your premises above were accurate, the paragraph this represents might have an ounce of soundness.

These views of mine will not change. I can not bring my self to like John Kerry. I nearly cried out of control last night when he won in NH out of severe depression. I deep down do not like the guy to such an extent that I would not be pleased to see him as president. I would vote for him if he is nominated, but I would do so without joy and not in good conscience. Because of this, I urge those who support other candidates, which is a majority, to vote for the candidate most likely to beat Kerry in your state. This way we can derail him and stop this.

So you know everything about Kerry? I have proven in this post that you know very little, or are else deliberately distorting his history to justify your post. The reason I dismissed this with a one-liner is because it betrays the same general ignorance about Kerry. You are buying into what makes you feel righteous, not what is true. It'd be fun to paint another candidate as a do-nothing stooge, but I would actually check my facts before posting a vanity thread concerning that subject.

[jpgray]

60. So you didn't want to be taken seriously after all? (nt)

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

75. Except by those that don't debate with facts

Go figure

[FreeperSlayer]

3. Yep, NBD is alive and well!

[Zynx]

8. I would support Clark and Edwards over Kerry too.

This is not NBD. Only out of a Kerry supporter would I expect something so obnoxious.

[worldgonekrazy]

50. This Dean supporter would support Edwards or Clark as well

Shit, I'll vote for Kerry if it comes down to it, but I won't be very happy about it.

[molly]

19. Yep - when will they give it up?

[Anwen]

39. Not until Dean is the nominee.

eom

[molly]

51. That means NEVER!

[ibegurpard]

5. You express my thoughts almost to a tee.

Sadly.

[Printer70]

6. I agree- Kerry excites noone

He will run and lose to Bush with no particular fanfare. He will be painted as another Massachussets liberal with a voting record left of Ted Kennedy (per his lifetime Americans for Democratic Action rating). Most significantly, he will be hit for waffling on war when Americans want someone to take stand decisively one way or the other.

[cindyw]

10. That's funny. "Kerry excites noone". He excited about 40% of Iowa and

New Hampshire voters. Hum..let me think.. that must mean 'No one" likes him.

[molly]

Looks like Missouri too!

by gosh I think we've got it!

[INTELBYTES]

34. 40% of the dem voting population that voted in the primary is not...

very impressive. Out of 3 million people, what did he get 70,000 votes or less?

[Printer70]

36. Boring candidates don't fare well in the general

See Cruz Bustamante, Al Gore, Paul Tsongas.

[Caution]

i seem to recall

that al gore won quite a few elections including the last one he ran in.

[Township75]

59. Well, NRP just stated that...

42% of those voting for Kerry voted for because he represented their political views. 46% of those voting for Kerry voted for him because he was viewed as the most electable...go figure WTF they were thinking when they did it, but I for one would expect a higher % to vote for him out of his political views if he were exciting the masses

[dansolo]

83. It's because the media has told them that he is the most "electable" (n/t)

[poskonig]

15. I'm enthusiastic!

I can't wait until Kerry shows Dubya the door! :bounce:

[Zynx]

21. Don't hold your breath.

The only way Kerry can beat "W" is if things completely collapse, which they might. However, I still wouldn't like him in the White House either just like I didn't like Clinton.

[poskonig]

45. He is Bushlite, ahem, too liberal for you?

I'd like to see a coherent argument against Kerry and less of the sour grapes nonsense.

The stuff about the Kerry and the Illuminati, UFOs, bigfoot, and so forth can stay for comedy, naturally.

[Zynx]

49. Kerry is the worst of both worlds.

He has an obnoxiously liberal voting record on social issues and a bad foreign policy record. On one count he is not electable and on the other I don't like him.

[poskonig]

53. I guess Dean, Kucinich, and even Lieberman are too "obnoxious"

for your tastes, eh?

Let go of the "gut feelings" and approach the facts rationally.

[INTELBYTES]

61. order of the skull and bones isn't conspiracy theory!

[AntiCoup2K4]

37. Which door would that be?

The door to his mansion at the Skull & Bones reunion BBQ and ritual child sacrifice next summer?

[zulchzulu]

72. "No one" sure is a lot of people

People did their homework in Iowa and New Hampshire. That's why Dean got is orange hat handed to him in both cases.

[bearfartinthewoods]

82. no particular fanfare

that sort of sums it up. nothing to excit. nothing to invigorate. nothing to inspire.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

7. well then make sure your guy's voters get out in Wisconsin

for all this noise I keep hearing about a grass roots, head start, well principled, well-oiled machine...where's the beef?

[On the Road]

11. Yeah, Kerry's a Bit Like Muskie

I will definitely vote for him in November if he's the nominee. But the "safe" is usually not so safe.

Imagine McGovern had flamed out in 1972 just after New Hampshire, leaving Muskie to clean up. Does anyone think Muskie would have beaten Nixon?

[in_cog_ni_to]

12. I can't stand Kerry.

Right now, when the chimp-in-chief comes on TV...I switch it because I cannot stomach looking at or hearing him. If Kerry is elected....I'll have to do the same thing. Everything about him is repulsive to me.

He also voted for the IWR and the Patriot Act. Unforgivable!

[lancdem]

13. Everyone on the Kerry bandwagon?

Then who are the authors of the 5 zillion anti-Kerry posts, of which your is only the latest?

[Zynx]

16. Mine is truly from the heart. I am terribly depressed about Kerry.

I really hate the guy.

[molly]

32. Why?

[Zynx]

35. It's an emotional reaction. A "gut feeling" about him.

I cringe everytime I hear him speak and I am less and less impressed with his "record".

[Hoppin_Mad]

14. A lot of people are sure jumping on the ABK bandwagon ! -nt-

[movonne]

I would much prefer Dean...but whomever gets the nomination I will get

behind 100%. We have to get rid of Bush that is what is important right now.

[Zynx]

23. I would vote for Kerry, but would have to bathe in bleech afterwards.

[Merusault]

57. Kerry is a true Democrat

Sounds like you don't want to win in the fall. That's exactly the kind of apathy that the Democratic party doesn't need this time around.

Kerry might not be the perfect candidate, but we know he won't be his own worst enemy.

[gWbush is Mabus]

18. I agree 100%

Kerry- electable
Clark - general
Edwards - cute
SO WHAT!


they would all get SLAUGHTERED by Bush

Dean is our only real chance!

[KFC]

20. You forgot Skull and Bones!

His mind is controlled by forces beyond us!

Secret ones at that!

[mitchum]

22. Yes, we know

God, how we know...

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Monte Carlo]

46. The feeling is mutual, then.

These types of threads only fuels the cycle of bitterness.

[mitchum]

54. And many Dean supporters (along with his centrist record and...

unelectability) are what really turn me off from the Dean campaign. I don't know if Iowa and New Hampshire based their decisions on these factors or not.

[Uzybone]

24. The get out of its way

or risk getting run over. Vote against him all you want. Hopefully youll stop that in the GE.

[blm]

27. You are describing someone but certainly NOT John Kerry.

He is NOTHING as you describe. NOTHING. He is a HISTORIC figure.

Only a biased mind can fail to acknowledge that John Kerry exposed more government corruption than any lawmaker in modern history.

[Zynx]

30. He fits every item I hit him with.

And he was not this glorious leader on even the corruption stuff you make him out to be either. You bought all of his overblown resume hook, line, sinker, and rod.

[blm]

41. Nope. I have great comprehension skills and know my history.

.

[sendero]

76. Yeah...

... and that is sure going to rally the rank and file come November... NOT! What is it with you people - nobody gives a RATS ASS about BCCI, Kyoto, any of that crap. The average American simply does not CARE. No more than 10-15% even know what BCCI is.

The ivory tower you people live in is astounding.

If this is what you are pinning your win hopes on, god help us all.

[stevedeshazer]

28. If you are truly this depressed

You need help. Please call your doctor right away.

[Zynx]

33. I'm sure you were depressed when Bush became president.

I feel almost the same about Kerry becoming the nominee.

[stevedeshazer]

40. I was.

I did.

It helped.

[Zynx]

43. Well, I hate Kerry almost as much as I hate Bush.

They are both shameless politicians that have no vision.

[Monte Carlo]

52. Then you aren't paying attention.

If you won't see the difference between them. And do you really think that Bush has no vision?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

42. OK. Bye!

:hi:

[beyurslf]

44. I will vote for Kerry if he gets the nom

but I am sticking to Dean or Edwards for now.

Nov though is ABB

[NewYorkerfromMass]

55. Reminds me of the Dean wagon. Substitute his name for 'Kerry' here

and "excitement" for "electable". You'll figure it out.

[For PaisAn]

56. One more important point

Kerry not only voted for the IWR. He has a lame excuse for that vote but...He also voted AGAINST a Byrd amendment that would have limited the resolution to only Iraq. I'd like to hear him and his supporters explain that one.

[ibegurpard]

62. Simple

They'll just come up with some Orwellian nonsense about how it was actually a vote to PREVENT Bush from taking the actions he did.

[For PaisAn]

63. Agree

many of his explanations do sound Orwellian. Still I'd really like to hear on this from some Kerry supporters.

[Edge]

58. I'm not on the Kerry bandwagon.

Don't worry about me. I totally agree with the points you have stated above.

I'm going to continue to support John Edwards and I'm going to rally my campus (and hopefully my state) behind him. I have already donated a lot of money (a lot for me anyways) to the John Edwards campaign.

I'll still vote for Kerry this fall if he does get the nomination, though.

[citizen snips]

64. I will never be on the Kerry bandwagon.

Kerry said "we don't need the south to win" made me mad. He definitely is not presidential by saying that.

[ryharrin]

65. I agree completely.

I see no way how he can in any way do even slightly better than Gore did. He's like a boring, Northeastern version of Gore who was never Vice President.

[rucky]

66. Whatever. They're all the same.

give or take a couple of the "fringe" candidates.

[wroberts189]

67. WOW.. Great Post

I feel the exact same way.

[chyjo]

68. for real?

interesting considering there seem to be more posts and posters attacking kerry. there's some real tough love brewing here I guess. Ive been on the Kerry bandwagon since day one, but here on the DU it feels more like we're all crammed onto a small tricycle while the other posters try to kick us off.

[Cheswick2.0]

69. I just really dislike him too...... and he is wrong on education

He can say whatever he wants now, but his votes are his record and his record on education is one I can not support.

PS... I disliked him long before I decided to support Dean.

[quaker bill]

71. I will vote agaiinst Bush* as well

But I cannot bring my self around to the concept of voting "for" John F. Kerry. If his name is on the democratic side of the ballot, he will happen to get my anti-Bush* vote.

But then again if Hamm Sandwich is on the democratic side of the ballot, it would get my anti-Bush* vote just as quickly.

[zulchzulu]

73. Lemmings are such cruel animals

Yeah, Kerry has nothing. Yeah, just nothing at all.... Oh yeah, did I mention, he has nothing... Uh huh....


John Kerry has always had the courage to stand by what he believes in. John earned three Purple Hearts fighting for America in Vietnam but returned home to fight against the Administration’s ill-conceived foreign policies. For the last 20 years, John has continued to fight against special interests to protect our environment, keep guns off the streets, make prescription drugs available and affordable for seniors, and stop corporations from robbing hardworking Americans by taking jobs overseas.

John has a bold, new vision for America. An America safe from foreign threats and greedy special interests. John has the experience and plans to lead America to better jobs, quality health care, energy that is clean, renewable, and independent, and greater opportunities for our children.

All his life, John has led the fight to make America a safer and stronger nation. As a soldier, prosecutor, and Senator, John has never backed down from a tough fight. John’s life has been defined by having the courage to fight to protect the Alaskan wild from oil drilling, put one of New England’s toughest organized crime bosses behind bars, help expose Oliver North, BCCI and Iran/Contra, find the truth about Vietnam’s MIA’s, raise the minimum wage for hardworking Americans, and rebuild America’s crumbling schools.

[bearfartinthewoods]

81. you sig is freezing my system

what's with that?

[Polemonium]

77. He won't get my money, or my volunteered time

In fact I will work against him in any way I can. Kerry does not represent change. When I meet with other Dean supporters this is generally the thinking. While many of us have not been involved in politics before, we are involved now for the long haul. Sure most of us are ultimately ABB, but that is only with our vote. Kerry or other DLC poster kids will not get our money, or our hard work. In fact most of us when we look at the road ahead are on the fence if we should try and get in there and fight the Kerry types who've failed to represent us for so long from within the party or if we need to put our efforts into a third party.

[ChrisNYC]

78. I posted a similar thread this afternoon

I find him so uninspiring, so disappointing, just so unworthy. We have the WORST PRESIDENT EVER sitting in the White House. I've heard inspiring speeches by inspiring candidates for months. And we are going to settle on another spineless, doubletalking Washington insider? The idea of Kerry as my candidate really makes me feel ill. We deserve so much better, and could have it with either Dean, Clark, or Edwards.

[CWebster]

80. Great post!

I'll second that!

[cthrumatrix]

85. I third it..... forget Kerry...it's a sure loss in the GE