If the Devil were disguised as a Saint?

[RONSTOO]

how would you really know ?

Seriously?


or would you simply ask Jesus?


( no pithy comments please )ok thats not possible

[texpatriot2004]

1. I know this about the devil

That lying lunatic * is EVIL and he's spreading evil in the name of "God" and turning people against "God" with his hypocritical behavior. Think about it, how many people are down on God or are God bashing or blaming God or even just despairing right now?

No, there is more here than politics as usual. There is a vileness and something altogether evil about this regime. The great deceiver is hard at work through * and this administration.

What is your definition of evil? What do you think constitutes evil behavior?

By their fruits ye shall know them. BE YE NOT DECEIVED.

For God has not given you the spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of A SOUND MIND.

How much sanity is there with this administration?

[AntiCoup2K4]

12. Yep. If Chimp isn't the Antichrist, then he's one HELL of an opening act..

...pun intentional. But not too hopeful about 2008, if that's the case :evilfrown:

[texpatriot2004]

13. You know, I always thought the antichrist would be smarter but

I wonder if the antichrist is more perrinial than that. A religious person I know said that he thought the antichrist more a generational thing. It was interesting to hear his comment as I had never thought of that. I mean I just went with "the one" theory on it but maybe he's on to something. I really don't know but I AM CERTAIN THAT THE LYING LUNATIC IN THE WH IS THE EPITOME OF ANTI-CHRIST. He's the opposite of the Jesus Christ I know. He's all about chaos and fear and lies and destruction and hate and division...none of that is of my God.

[murielm99]

2. You would look to see if he casts a shadow.

:evilgrin:

[DemBones DemBones]

3. "By their fruits you shall know them."

Fruits, in this case, meaning acts.

Jesus already told us, as recorded in the Gospels, how to tell good from evil and even to recognize the Devil in disguise.

[texpatriot2004]

8. Exactly! You will know them by what they DO not what they say.

I was just typing this in my post below.

[OKDem08]

4. Matthew 10:16

Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
I generally don't quote bible verses; however, this one seems politically astute and appropriate for our time.
Prob doesn't answer your question.

[texpatriot2004]

9. Great scripture for our time. Thanks. I don't usually quote it

either but lately I find verses coming to me. I am not good enough to know the exact quotes but they come to me nonetheless.

Like this from Timothy (I think)

"For God has not given you the spirit of fear but of power and of love and of a SOUND MIND."

or this from Joshua

"Be bold and strong banish fear and doubt for remember the Lord your God is with you wherever you go."

[bigbrother05]

5. Evil or incompetent

does it really matter when people are hurt in either case? Results are what counts.

[hwmnbn]

6. he would try to fool us into to making him.....

the most powerful person in the world.

His evil minions would fool us into thinking they are "doing God's work" when really all they do is spread fear, greed, and bigotry throughout the planet.

He would spend lots of vacation time in a hot dusty hellhole of a town.

He would look like a chimp and act like a chump.

[texpatriot2004]

10. Yeah, I think that's him. n/t

[texpatriot2004]

7. You'll know in your knower. Hear me out. The hair on the back

of your neck will stand up, you might get goose bumps, you may become alarmed...what I am saying is that you know evil when you meet it, you can sense it. You can tell the truth from a lie (the devil is the great deceiver). Jesus said he would leave us with the Holy Spirit that we may know the truth when we heard it. Okay, not verbatim but he said something like that. Also, the Good Book tells us that "by their fruits ye shall know them" in other words by what they do NOT WHAT THEY SAY.

It's not that I stop and ask Jesus if this is the devil. I don't know if there is one devil...well, actually Lucifer, the brightest angel before his fall I guess could be him. I actually think that the devil only has the power that we give him; he uses us. IMHO The devil is not powerful, certainly not more powerful than Jesus or Good or God. The New Testament also says that Jesus has already been given dominion of the Earth and the Heavens and what's below the Earth. The problem is that we can choose good or evil every minute.

I think we are dealing with EVIL in this regime. I think it's obvious with the secrecy, the lies, the deceit, the grab for more and more power, the lack of kindness and compassion for human life, the desire for war and destruction, the utter disregard for the environment and more.

All is not lost though. There is hope. This evil can be stopped and I believe it will be stopped. Get thee behind me Satan.

[DemBones DemBones]

11. Why do you think so many are fooled?

Why are so many NOT knowing them by their fruits? I know too many Christians -- and I mean real ones! -- who are deceived.

[AntiCoup2K4]

14. In Matthew 24, Jesus said that in the days just before His return.....

..that even "the elect" (believers) would be decieved by false Christs and false prophets.

[texpatriot2004]

15. That's true I know what you mean. I am not sure I am qualified to

even venture a guess. I think it has to do with religion v spirituality. You know Jesus said he wasn't in the church buildings, uh what was it that he said exactly that his kingdom is within. I think, just like in the days of Jesus, many people get caught up in the the religiousness of Christianity and not living it. Does that make sense? You know, go to church, compartmentalize your spiritual life to church, or even get way involved at church but miss the point of it all which is doing his work here, being his hands, his feet, his mouth. Instead people get caught up like the Pharisees and think they are "right" and "holy" etc.

Also, it's pretty easy to be deceived when the only source that is widely used (TV) is controlled by the corporate agenda. I mean Fox news is the source for many of them but even the other channels are not informing us of what's really going on.

Then, I think you cannot underestimate the cleverness and cunningness of the great deceiver who can quote scripture better than any of us. It sounds good. It looks good but looks can be deceiving and if there is no action to back up your talk than you're lying. Still, many are called and few are chosen.

[OKDem08]

19. very eloquent

:applause:

[texpatriot2004]

18. Another thing, Jesus didn't hang out with the religious people

he hung out with the sinners and with people who needed him. I think in His world up is down, left is right...

[texpatriot2004]

16. BE YE NOT DECEIVED. n/t

[IntravenousDemilo]

17. Me just simple jungle princess.

Me not know this word "devil". What that?

[OKDem08]

20. there, there, don't worry your pretty mind about such trivial things

[AntiCoup2K4]

21. The Devil looks like this....

[texpatriot2004]

22. See I knew him right away. I recognized his ugly mug. n/t

[IntravenousDemilo]

24. Me frightened! Make him go!

Maybe he go away if I don't believe in this "devil".

[bluedawg12]

34. Yikes he resembles that remark! n/t

[texpatriot2004]

23. There is a great website re: Christian Values and countering RR

aka the religious "right" I think it's a good one for progressive types.

http://www.christianalliance.org/site/c.bnKIIQNtEoG/b.592961/k.ABD2/About_the_Alliance.htm

[texpatriot2004]

37. Here's another website - Sojouners.net

http://www.sojo.net/

[shockingelk]

25. One could ask "Jesus":

"If I asked you to ask if what you call a Devil, 'Are you actually a Saint?' and report to me the answer, what would you tell me?"" (Assuming Jesus always tells the truth and the Devil always lies) ...

If "Jesus" is really Jesus and asked the devil if he was a Saint, the final answer would be "Yes, the Devil says he's a Saint."(Real Jesus asks, devil says he's a Saint).

If "Jesus" is the devil and asked the real Jesus if he was a Saint, "Jesus" would say "Yes, I'm a Saint," but the Devil would report to you Jesus said he wasn't a Saint.

[baron j]

26. I think it is the other way around.

At least the devil or a devil is honest in being evil--by the sheer act of going by the epithet "devil". People who claim to be saints, or saintly, or try to force us to be so, are the ones to worry about.

"..Hell is not the fire; Hell is your belief in yourself as the higher..."

~Peter Murphy

[DemBones DemBones]

29. The Devil is NOT honest about being evil or

even about being the Devil. That was what the OP asked -- how do you recognize the Devil if he disguises himself as a saint?

[baron j]

45. I don't believe in devils or saints. In my estimation, people are just

people. And they have a choice of being selfish or generous, hurtful or compassionate, destructive or creative, etc.

[Ready4Change]

30. Depends on whose devil you are looking at.

Some religions over simplify the concept of a/the devil. They make it a visually, blatantly, monstrous representation of evil.

If I were to believe there is a Devil/Satan, I'd think it would be the other sort. He would be beautiful, or at least acceptably pleasant. He'd speak kindly, meekly. He'd be misleading you, but you'd have a hard time pointing to any one thing as evidence. Awful things would happen around him, yet it would be very difficult to say, or even realize, he was the cause.

Silver tongued devil. Know him by his deeds, not his words. Evil is as evil does.

Personally, I don't believe there is a conscious, malevelant entity out to destroy our souls. But, I believe we ourselves can become that, through our deeds and actions. So in a sense, the devil IS real. He is inside us all, and we must all fight our own internal battles, as well as be on watch against those amongst us who have failed.

By their deeds, not their words.

[unrepuke]

27. The Devil does not "hide behind the cross" -- he hides in front of it

[texpatriot2004]

28. Profound and powerful statement. I agree. n/t

[bluedawg12]

33. That's a good one! And true in the same way

that anti-American radicalright wingers drape themselves in the flag in order to tear down our great nation and the working middle class.

[B3Nut]

31. Don't have the chapter/verse handy but

the Bible does say that Satan masquerades as an angel of light, and his servants masquerade as ministers of righteousness. We've all seen those "ministers of righteousness" if we own a television set.

Heh...reminds me of that old Petra tune... "Angel of light/I see you glow in the night/but you only bring darkness to my soul..."

Test all things, hold to that which is good.

Todd in Beerbratistan

[texpatriot2004]

43. I hadn't heard that one. I like it. "Masquerades" = Pretends and/or

DECEIVES

“And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness…” (2Cor.11: 14, 15 NIV).

[Richard D]

32. It's about Love.

The anit-christ will have all the right words, will quote Jesus, will act holy, will pray (in public) a lot, and will talk about God. But there will be no Love behind it. And by Love I mean even for the insects and blades of grass. But especially Love for the downtroden, for the sick, for the ill, for the poor.

Certainly makes a good picture of what the fundamentalists of any religion are not.

[texpatriot2004]

42. It is about Love especially for the "least among us" I love what

you say about them praying in public...so true. All talk no walk.

CORINTHIANS 13 : 1-13

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging symbol. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Love is patient, love is kind, it does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud, it is not rude, it is not self seeking it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

Love never fails, but where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues they will be stilled, where there is knowledge it will pass away. For we know in part and prophecy in part, but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears.

When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man I put childish ways behind me.

Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face.

Now I know in part, then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

And now these three remain Faith, Hope and Love. But the greatest of these is Love.

[Richard D]

48. Beautiful. Thank you.

[Hidden Stillness]

35. Lots of Devils

The Devil will be disguised as a male viciously attacking raped, murdered white women who are then exploited by a male corporate media using them as porn, but who then lamely pretend they are somehow "attacking racism" by this woman-hating.

The Devil will be disguised as a male attacking women for trying to fight back against male exploitation of us as their sexual property. The game will be to call our anger and concern "trivial," that we are "frigid" or "lesbians," or that, really, we are messing everything up by being "one-issue" thinkers.

The Devil will be disguised as a male giving us "strategy" lessons, and telling us that the country is simply "never" ready to advance our cause, and that we should just always convert all our interests to advancing male interests. This will be referred to as "practical" and "real."

This Devil will be disguised as someone telling us that really, the Devil is everyone else.

[Marleyb]

36. Texas longhorn sign?....I don't think so

Thanks for the discussion. I think it is time for real Christians to take back Jesus' message from these zealots. I really can't comprehend Bush's followers wanting and waiting for the rapture. If they really think Jesus is coming back shouldn't they be following his teachings?...like say 'treat others how you want to be treated', 'thou shall not kill,lie,covet thy neighbors oil' etc Shouldn't they be fighting for truth and justice, choosing love over fear? Aren't they going to be left behind?

[texpatriot2004]

38. That's NO LONGHORN sign there. It's a sign alright but NOT

the hook em horns sign...besides, that lying lunatic * recently publicly called himself an Aggie (or maybe it was some other name for Aggies) he's not of course so the comment was really stupid but hey, consider the source.

I think you are absolutely right it's time to take Jesus back from the zealots and show them what Jesus is really about.

I certainly hope they will be left behind...if they get to go, then I don't want to.

[texpatriot2004]

49. That is NOT the hook em horns sign, but even it it was, why

would he use this sign he didn't go to UT?

[texpatriot2004]

39. Website for the brave only

http://www.yourchristianpresident.com/

[afdip]

47. more than a little simplistic, but

at least it's not pro-bushco

[Kurovski]

40. The Bible guarantees that that is how it will go down.

Which is quite the royal mind-f*ck.

You certainly do know what is possible and impossible here at DU :-)!

[jokerman93]

46. which came first?

Chicken or the egg. You know?

[jokerman93]

41. The chimp is a mask

I kind of see it this way. The chimp himself isn't the evil. He's a kind of mannequin; a golem; a human mask worn by the war machine that's behind all this. Dubya, as a personification, can teach us a lot about what they call "the banality of evil".

:popcorn:

[texpatriot2004]

44. "Masquerades" as light. nm