Next time someone calls you a LIBERAL

[bluedawg12]

The next time some one calls you liberal tell ‘em that liberal and liberty derive from the same latin root: “free,” as in freedom.:patriot:

Ask them if they have a problem with freedom?

‘a liberal is a man who believes in liberty’ (Cranston, 459). (3)

Tell them that:

>The fundamental principles of liberalism include these. That governments should rule with the consent of the governed; that individuals have a right to life, liberty and property; and that all citizens have equal rights under the law. (1)<

Is there a problem with law and order?

Is there a problem with individuals having rights with in the bounds of consent from the governed? Or should men live in a society ruled by a few who tell the many how to live, how to die, who to love, and when and what they should worship?

>‘he burden of proof is supposed to with those who are against liberty; who contend for any restriction or prohibition…. The a priori assumption is in favour of freedom…’(Mill, 1991 <1859>: 472). This might be called the Fundamental Liberal Principle (Gaus, 1996: 162-166): freedom is normatively basic, and so the onus of justification is on those who would limit freedom.< (3)

Are there those who prefer that men live with out the rule of law under the tyranny of a few, or in a society where the voices of individuals are silenced and with out recourse to public vote and public policy?

Would some prefer thinking in lock step and goose- marching to the same tune, or in alternate, if in resistence, to the gallows?

>Conservatism is a universal ideology or philosophy: conservatives consider their values to be valid for all persons, not just for themselves. Consequently, there is no great tradition of conservative separatism, and conservatism is a political force, seeking to implement policy. Since not everyone is a conservative, now or in the past, conservatism is historically associated with repression of non-conservatives. (2)<

Aren’t the same people who fear social engineering the same ones who have fallen prey to it?

>Conservatives often claim that their values are the 'national values' or 'community values', which are beyond political discussion and must be enforced. (2)<

Next time some one calls you a liberal ask them if they have a problem with liberty.


Of interest to anyone wanting to delve into what the conservative jurists think, check out the Federalist Society web site. Newly appointed Supreme Court Chief Justice Roberts is a member.

Here is a sample from Judge Bork, a former nominee to the USSC;

>Robert H. Bork, "Neutral Principles and Some First Amendment Problems," 47 Ind. L.J. 1 (1971). ..Judge Bork then attempts to derive some neutral principles in the free speech area, concluding that "onstitutional protection should be accorded only to speech that is explicitly political" and excepting speech that advocates the overthrow of government or other violations of the law.< (4)

(1) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism
(2)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative
(3)http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/liberalism/
(4)http://www.fed-soc.org/Publications/biblio/biblio.htm#the_bill_of_rights


Main Entry: 1liberal
Etymology: Latin liberalis suitable for a freeman, generous, from liber free;

BROAD-MINDED; especially : not bound by authoritarianism, orthodoxy, or traditional forms
synonyms LIBERAL, GENEROUS, BOUNTIFUL, MUNIFICENT mean giving or given freely and unstintingly.

LIBERAL suggests openhandedness in the giver and largeness in the thing or amount given <a teacher liberal with her praise>.
GENEROUS stresses warmhearted readiness to give more than size or importance of the gift <a generous offer of help>.
BOUNTIFUL suggests lavish, unremitting giving or providing <children spoiled by bountiful presents>.
MUNIFICENT suggests a scale of giving appropriate to lords or princes <a munificent foundation grant>.

Main Entry: liberty
Etymology: Latin libertat-, libertas, from liber free -- more at LIBERAL
1 : the quality or state of being free: a : the power to do as one pleases b : freedom from physical restraint c : freedom from arbitrary or despotic control d : the positive enjoyment of various social, political, or economic rights and privileges e : the power of choice
2 a : a right or immunity enjoyed by prescription or by grant : PRIVILEGE b : permission especially to go freely within specified limits
synonym see FREEDOM
- at liberty 1 : FREE

[mzteris]

1. JFK quote on being Liberal

If by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people -- their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties -- someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal," then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal."

Acceptance of the New York Liberal Party nomination (14 September 1960) TurnLeft:What is a Liberal?

[NNadir]

33. But in reality, JFK was no liberal.

He talked the talk but didn't walk the walk.

[shockingelk]

2. I just think everyone deserves

- A health plan they can afford
- Excellent public transportation
- Excellent public education
- The right to make any medical decision without interference from the state, including end of life decisions
- The right to "commit" "victimless crimes"
- To feel like their nation is part of the world community instead of against it
- To accomplish the above with renewable energy sources

I guess if someone called me a liberal in a derogatory manner, I'd respond,

Well, if by that you mean I believe our obscenely rich nation ought to be able to figure out how to keep all citizens reasonably healthy, to get them from point A to B on public transit, to fulfill the potential of our children's minds, and do that without peeking into our bedrooms or pissing off our neighbors or ruining everybody's environment, sure! Thanks!

[eallen]

3. We need to better propagate the meme that liberal = freedom, and....

And that conservative means more legislating away of personal liberty.

[DemoTex]

4. Excellent definitions .. all!

Keep 'um coming.

[MsConduct]

5. I L-O-V-E this and I'm stealing it! Thanks! n/t

[bluedawg12]

6. Good ones! here is one on individualism

I like this because one of the conservative mantra's is about the selfishness of liberals and their need to gratify themselves.

This from a group that doled out millions of relief money with out bids and none went to the displaced and jobless folk of the US gulf region- who so desperately needed them.

But for the record, individual growth is a good.

It is not all for "future generations," for "the children," as conservatives would like us to believe, because we are someone's future generation. And, we have a duty and a drive to be the best that we can be. We are someone's kid- and our parents wanted us to be fulfilled as individuals- as we want our kids to grow, and flourish.

"Individuality is the same thing with development, and…it is only the cultivation of individuality which produces, or can produce, well-developed human beings…what more can be said of any condition of human affairs, than that it brings human beings themselves nearer to the best thing they can be? or what worse can be said of any obstruction to good, than that it prevents this? (Mill, 1991 <1859>: 71)
"http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/liberalism/

[msongs]

7. the democratic party INC. is afraid of the word liberal and runs from it

because if you are aiding and abetting and supporting all the buscho legislation and policies AND refusing to behave like an opposition party when what you claim to value is attacked, you cannot call yourself a liberal when you are in fact JUST LIKE THE REPUBLICANS.

Msongs
www.msongs.com/liberaltshirts.htm

[electropop]

8. Sending this one to my family and friends

nice job!

by the way, when I was growing up, "conservative" was a shameful, dirty thing to be, and "liberal" is what all the cool people were. Still that way, but lots of folks have forgotten it. They're gradually remembering though.

[Leeny]

9. I thank them

The last time AND the next time, I thank them.

Unfortunately people don't think for themselves anymore and they don't remember their history. They don't know what "liberal" means, or what a democrat is, or why we have unions, why people organize against the big boss, the company store.

I was thinking this morning on the way to work that history will ALWAYS be doomed to repeat itself if we don't know what our history is.

Al Sharpton at the last convention did a pretty good job reminding afro-american folk which of the two parties has their back. But I listened to him and thought that we need to remind people continually, educate them about their history, show them who their true allies are. As misguided and screwed up as the Dems might be, they're still the best bet at this point.

[texpatriot2004]

10. Great post. Love your research on the "liberal" label. My liberal

label question today is this:

Have you noticed that people who are informed (particularly with information that contradicts propaganda) are called "liberal(s)"?

[bluedawg12]

14. tex- yea, it's a knee jerk slur that they have shouted

from the roof tops. Liberal this, liberal that...usually with an adjective in front: left wing liberal, Hollywood liberal, we've all heard them.

As someone pointed out, liberal used to be the norm and conservative was a slur- clever how such dysfunctional people could affect a change in our language- a testimony to the power of money and think tanks and bought-in-the-pocket- rightwingnutelite media like media oligopolist ( is there such a word?? LOL) The Holy father of Faux News and the neoconnies own rag- The Weakly Standard is it? -
The Big Kahuna of neoconnies mr. Murdick.

[bluedawg12]

11. Ayn Rand is a darling of many conservatives, yet-

in a paradoxical way she was a LIBERAL- she valued personal freedom, the, "I", over group think and totalitarian thinking.

But, in this crazy mixed up world where a so-called conservative President has run up a huge national debt, has attempted nation building, and has grown an ever more powerful federal government, in contrast to conservative philosophy, they have also missed the boat on individualism in favor of normative values.

here is something from Rand that should make conservatives think about their own moral ambiguity:

"The Objectivist ethics rebuilds morality from the ground up. "You cannot say 'I love you' if you cannot say the 'I'," wrote Ayn Rand. According to Objectivism, a person's own life and happiness is the ultimate good. To achieve happiness requires a morality of rational selfishness, one that does not give undeserved rewards to others and that does not ask them for oneself.

Objectivism was made for the era of industrial capitalism. It teaches what became plain as the West got rich: that a harmony of interests exists among rational individuals, so that no one's benefit need come at the price of another's suffering. Because one person's happiness does not come at the expense of another's, a life of mutual respect and benevolent independence is possible for all. It is the doctrine of "live and let live," to the full and in every way."


http://www.objectivistcenter.org/objectivism/faqs/wthomas_faq-ethics.asp

[mbee]

12. As I always say

"CONSERVE LIBERALLY"

[bluedawg12]

13. Ronald Regan was a LIBERAL philosophically

"I don’t believe in a government that protects us from ourselves." Reason Magazine July 1975- Ronald Regan

Are conservatives suffering from cognitive dissonance?
These days it seems that about all the government and the conservatives want to do is PC (politically correct radicalright wing)interference with ourselves and to "protect us from ourselves."

But only in ways that don't really matter.

Not in terms of unbridled development and deforestation, the destruction of the natural world and the environment, over population, domestic violence, child abuse, poverty, and on and on.

But when it comes to sex, language and religion they are all over the citizenry with admonitions and condemnation.

http://reason.com/7507/int_reagan.shtml
Inside Ronald Reagan
A Reason Interview

"If you analyze it I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism. I think conservatism is really a misnomer just as liberalism is a misnomer for the liberals–if we were back in the days of the Revolution, so-called conservatives today would be the Liberals and the liberals would be the Tories. The basis of conservatism is a desire for less government interference or less centralized authority or more individual freedom and this is a pretty general description also of what libertarianism is."
- no kidding Ronnie

[bluedawg12]

15. Conservatives love F.A. Heyak

This economist was against a strong central government and he has been lionized by many conservatives- but if you read carefully, even in his declaration against the Nazi regime, he decried the loss of individual views and desires--a LIBERAL point of view.

http://www.libertystory.net/LSTHINKHAYEKLIFE.htm
"He became more radical as he grew older. For instance, this passage from The Political Order of a Free People (1979), about abolishing government monopolies: "any governmental agency allowed to use its taxing power to finance such services ought to be required to refund any taxes raised for these purposes to all those who prefer to get the services in some other way. This applies without exception to all those services of which today government possesses or aspires to a legal monopoly, with the only exception of maintaining and enforcing the law and maintaining for this purpose (including defense against external enemies) an armed force.."

Today, conservatives seem only to remember that he was against tax money going to the government for anything other than defense and safety- and everything else being privatized. But, Hayek would be appalled at the collective fundy thinking of todays conservative movement and how big business has come to replace big government- Hayek wanted the tax money to go back to individuals not big corporations!!!

http://www.libertystory.net/LSTHINKHAYEKLIFE.htm
"The May 1940 issue of Economica published Hayek's article "Socialist Calculation: The Competitive 'Solution,'" in which he addressed the political consequences of government control over the economy. He wrote, "This is of course precisely the authoritarian doctrine preached by Nazis and Fascists...in a planned system all economic questions become political questions, because it is no longer a question of reconciling as far as possible individual views and desires, but one of imposing a single scale of values, the 'social goal' of which socialists ever since the time of Saint-Simon have been dreaming."

[texpatriot2004]

16. I hate this liberal label thing like we are all so simple that we can

be reduced to "liberal" v "conservative" (and BTW there is NOTHING CONSERVATIVE about the current "conservatives"). I am liberal on some issues and conservative on others and I AM NOT A ONE ISSUE VOTER. Please humans are complex...what's with the either-or rubbish. We need to get beyond this kind of thinking.

[bluedawg12]

18. I bet most liberals are not one issue voters- but, it's just

a way to brand name a group, or use short hand.

It's like naming a team. You root for the Cubs ( or not) and not the baseball team from the North Side of Chicago who haven't won squat in decades but have loyal followers called bleacher bums once depicted on Saturday Night Live now mostly alcoholics in real life or dead. See? LOL. Easier to say: Cubs fan.

But, I whole heartedly agree that we need to be looking in depth at what it means to be part of a group, or a poltical party, and since times are so complex, issues are so complex, I am trying very hard to understand why I want a Democratic party victory-and what that means besides throwing these bums out of office.

In addition, if I disagree with a conservative on any issue, even if it's just one, they immediately call me a liberal. I know the word has become a knee jerk pejorative, but, darnit, if someone is going to call me a liberal I want to be certain I am one, and know why. and can defend myself. This is great place to hone ideas and clarify thinking.

Finally, I think many of us have to defend ourselves at being called liberal- it has come to evoke what the rightwing wants it to mean and I want to take back the word. I want it to be a positive in today's world. I for certain know that conservative philosophy may have some fine sounding concepts, but like communism, once in the hands of powerful politicians those principles have been abused.

I once had a communist ( a real live one) tell me communism did fail- "we" failed it. My answer, any system that is so easily corrupted and prone to abuse by human avarice and power is de facto screwed up. So, it seems, conservativism has failed because it has been corrupted and prone to corruption.

[texpatriot2004]

19. I like your de facto failure theory and I agree with it too.

"This is great place to hone ideas and clarify thinking."

Absolutely. DU is great for this. A forum for thinking about these topics and for dialogue too.

Yeah, I hate that feeling I get that puts me on the defense at being called a liberal (for, as you say, disagreeing on even one issue) and I think, why should I feel bad? why should I apologize for my beliefs - they certainly aren't and theirs are more selfish, greedy, flawed, etc. Last year around the time of the "election" I heard someone say, "I am for sick children having health care and if that makes me a liberal then so be it." It stuck with me. I think that's it. I am for these human things and if that makes me a liberal...well then so be it.

[bluedawg12]

22. Yea, proud liberal and a strong liberal.

I won't take crap from anyone in real life.

I stick up for my beliefs.

I love my country and the best of the ideals it stands for- and for what it can yet become.

I support a strong military, and support our troops, and believe in a strong and swift and sure repsonse to any act of hostility to my home land.

I believe in the right to bear arms.

I am conflicted and saddened by abortion, and understand the right to chose but can't quite get my head around the fetus issue- that's my deep personal belief. Because I do believe that life, all life, critters as well as people are a spark of the divine.

I love nature and hate to see it gobbled up by greedy developers and polluted and spoiled for generations to come. This is a beautiful land and the clear cutting of forests in the west and pacific NW is an awful sight.

I like out door stuff, don't hunt critters, but target shoot.

I want everone in this country to be well off, have decent paying jobs, health care, and pensions.

it goes on, so if I am a librul- cool. I'm proud.

I can't be a conservative because I can't support coprorate welfare and off shore tax havens and tax cuts, and I can't tear down others to make myself seem righteous. nor do I care whom you love and if you do or don't have sex with them and if you do or don't see God when you come.

I hope that makes me a librul.

[texpatriot2004]

23. Well BlueDawg I'd say you'll fit right in. Welcome to liberal land -

and based on this here post you wrote I'm damn glad to have ya. I agree with your thoughtful post. You're a thinker and a feeler - good combination.

[bluedawg12]

25. Thakya' Tex! I think alot of people feel this way

at least folks I know, regular people who work for a living and support their families by the sweat of their brow rather than their "investments".

John Edwards has made a good arguement lately that America is anti-worker and pro-investment class.

Or as I think of it the destrruction of the working-middle class in America. --But that could be a whole entire thread.

[calimary]

17. Liberal? Moi? You DAMNED WELL better believe it! And PROUD of it.

Plus, I like to send this along:

A DAY IN THE LIFE OF JOE REPUBLICAN!!!

By John Gray, Cincinnati, Ohio

July - 2004

Joe gets up at 6:00am to prepare his morning coffee. He fills his pot full of good clean drinking water because some liberal fought for minimum water quality standards. He takes his daily medication with his first swallow of coffee. His medications are safe to take because some liberal fought to insure their safety and work as advertised.

All but $10.00 of his medications are paid for by his employers’ medical plan because some liberal union workers fought their employers for paid medical insurance, now Joe gets it too. He prepares his morning breakfast, bacon and eggs this day. Joe's bacon is safe to eat because some liberal fought for laws to regulate the meat packing industry.

Joe takes his morning shower reaching for his shampoo; His bottle is properly labeled with every ingredient and the amount of its contents because some liberal fought for his right to know what he was putting on his body and how much it contained. Joe dresses, walks outside and takes a deep breath. The air he breathes is clean because some tree hugging liberal fought for laws to stop industries from polluting our air. He walks to the subway station for his government subsidized ride to work; it saves him considerable money in parking and transportation fees. You see, some liberal fought for affordable public transportation, which gives everyone the opportunity to be a contributor.

Joe begins his work day; he has a good job with excellent pay, medicals benefits, retirement, paid holidays and vacation because some liberal union members fought and died for these working standards. Joe’s employer pays these standards because Joe’s employer doesn't want his employees to call the union. If Joe is hurt on the job or becomes unemployed he’ll get a worker compensation or unemployment check because some liberal didn't think he should lose his home because of his temporary misfortune.

It’s noon time, Joe needs to make a bank deposit so he can pay some bills. Joe's deposit is federally insured by the FSLIC because some liberal wanted to protect Joe’s money from unscrupulous bankers who ruined the banking system before the depression.

Joe has to pay his Fannie Mae-underwritten mortgage and his below market federal student loan because some stupid liberal decided that Joe and the government would be better off if he was educated and earned more money over his life-time.

Joe is home from work, he plans to visit his father this evening at his farm home in the country. He gets in his car for the drive to dad’s; his car is among the safest in the world because some liberal fought for car safety standards. He arrives at his boyhood home. He was the third generation to live in the house financed by Farmers Home Administration because bankers didn't want to make rural loans. The house didn't have electricity until some big government liberal stuck his nose where it didn't belong and demanded rural electrification. (Those rural Republicans would still be sitting in the dark!)

He is happy to see his dad who is now retired. His dad lives on Social Security and his union pension because some liberal made sure he could take care of himself so Joe wouldn't have to. After his visit with dad he gets back in his car for the ride home.

He turns on a radio talk show, the host keeps saying that liberals are bad and conservatives are good. (He doesn't tell Joe that his beloved Republicans have fought against every protection and benefit Joe enjoys throughout his day.) Joe agrees. We don't need those big government liberals ruining our lives. After all, I'm a self made man who believes everyone should take care of themselves, just like I have.

[Dave Sund]

20. Liberals Love Freedom

Freedom of speech. Freedom of religion. Freedom to love. Freedom to question our government. Liberals believe in the bill of rights. The Constitution. The principles of freedom and democracy.

It's time we stop letting these corporate whores use doublespeak and propaganda to try and redefine our beliefs.

[sepia_steel]

21. "Why THANK YOU, yes I am." eom

[NMDemDist2]

24. yup, that's what I usually say too LOL n/t

[No Exit]

26. And if they say they are "conservative", ask them

"What, exactly, do you conserve?"

I'd really like to know what it is these wingnuts conserve.

[Neil Lisst]

27. I'm liberal - open minded, compassionate, etc.

Conservatives worship long-dead liberals.

-----
my progressive political cartoon
http://www.webcomicsnation.com/neillisst

[bluedawg12]

28. The goose hunting trip looked a little staged,too

you can't be soccer mom and NASCAR dad to all the people all the time.

I hate to say this but we need someone who is photgenic, glib, and projects and air of manly confidence and ease--Hilary? just kidding.

Seriously, the Dems have come to be associated with soft,effete, bleeding heart qualities- well, heck, the liberal women I know are smart and tough and have depth of conviction and the men are real guys who work--often labor--and do their best to be good people and support their families.

I want the men and women with us who work at mills, have lost their pensions, work 4 -12 hour shifts, work like 20 year old when they are in their 50's, drive pickup truck or a newer clean vehicle, take pride in their homes, want their kids to have a better life.

I don't want to debate about brain dead rightwing symbols in Florida, burned out fatboat swifties and I am burned out on issues like stem cells and cloning-

Clone me if the other me will work my shift- otherwise we need to tell the radicalright to shut the fvck up about this crap.

[mmonk]

29. I'll thank them

[Lexingtonian]

30. I always cheerfully admit that I am

and ask them to tell me what's wrong about it.

The response is always eye-widening bullshit that they themselves don't really believe. You wouldn't believe how embarrassed and strained they get. Apparently I've used a lot of drugs, or engaged in slandering their God, or have had flagrant homosexual experiences, or been on welfare all of my life, or I "hate America"- all stuff I am surprised they have discovered about me, because -try as I may- I can't. Strangely enough, further explanation of their views of the sort gets them very upset and confused.

[bluedawg12]

31. We try to understand our ideology wingnuts are spoon fed

like baby vultures who then regurgitate the carrion they are fed.

If you lurk the freepersite- first take dramamine- then be amazed at how their thinking is done for them...they give drinking cool-aide a new meaning.

At least liberals think, and debate, and try to understand at how they arrive at their political position.

And they sure as hell don't own pride in country, national security, or support for troops.

they are so stupid that they do not realize that the wholesale corporate welfare tax cut scheme has cost them money because they are middle class people,for the most part, and they pay the damned taxes--I know they don't have off shore tax havens.

[tabasco]

32. I tell 'em "Goddam right I'm a liberal !"

I tell 'em they are Bush ass-kissers, loyal to their party, not to their Nation.

[EVDebs]

34. Truth has a liberal bias...eom

[brainshrub]

35. Being called a Liberal is a great compliment.

It's like someone calling you: "intelligent & sexy."

[bluedawg12]

36. This Pew Poll shows that Liberals are on the ethical side of most issues

http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?PageID=948

Liberals are more progressive about science ex: stem cells, evolution, and more fair minded about social issues that pertain to personal choices.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Contrary1]

38. Past your bedtime, sonny.

[atommom]

39. Ann? Is that you?

[bluedawg12]

41. Can't be Annie the K- it doesn't resemble a horse. n/t

[bluedawg12]

40. Liberals love America so much

that they are willing to work for a strong America - rather than conservatives and their infatuaton with a one world government run by right wing multi national elites.

Hey, let's piss away another $1 billion dollars today in building up I-wreck.

Paging General Shinkseki - the 250,000 troops you advised us to send over are calling and wondering where the hell their leadership is.

I never knew conservative was spelled: d-e-f-i-c-i-t.

.....

God Bless America
Support Our Troops and our veterans.
Support the military families- forgotten by the rightwing elite who run this show and are making billions while military families get food stamps.

[texpatriot2004]

42. Right on..."I-wreck" that's great. n/t