"We can't just leave Iraq" That's what they said about Vietnam -too!

[European Socialist]

Two years is plenty of time to train Iraqi troops. If they are not ready now, they never will be.

[BlueEyedSon]

1. The "helicopter moment" is coming

[Yupster]

5. If we leave, we must at least

take with us all the Iraqis who have worked with us, because once we leave they will be defenseless.

[BlueEyedSon]

14. Yeah, like Chalabi

You must be joking.

[welshTerrier2]

2. every day we remain we make things worse and worse ...

and still the "do gooders" explain why we should stay longer ... the intent may be good but the strategy is crazy ...

the good news is that a majority of Americans now support immediate withdrawal of all troops ... the politics will push our "leaders" to change course in Iraq very soon ...

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

3. And we did "just leave" Vietnam, too, at long last.

I wonder who will be in the last chopper off the roof of the embassy in Baghdad? Will it look like this?

And will it take 10 years and 58,000 deaths to get to this?

[MichiganVote]

4. VietNam didn't have oil

[FloridaPat]

8. Yes they do. Quit a lot too.

[MichiganVote]

15. Florida, you got me curious about my error...so I went looking

for information about VietNam and oil. I found this item and wondered what you opinion might be.

http://www.brojon.org/frontpage/bj050701-3.html

[FloridaPat]

17. WOW!

I read about the oil off the Vietnam shore line in the NYT around 1970. Then right after we left Vietnam, the oil companies tried to get the oil contracts that were signed by the oild gov't redone with the new gov't. They were denied. I had no idea there was actual drilling off Vietnam. And I've been keeping track of stuff like this because it seemed to be the only reason we were there.

But that story you found is scary. So much money and bloodshed for oil. So many lies. The extent of the corrpution of our gov't for decades if not centures is stunning.

The lastest figures on the number of Vietnamese citizens killed is now 4 million.

Thanks for find that article.

[MichiganVote]

19. That's what I thought too. Wow!

[bluedawg12]

6. Not the same- when we left there was a gov. in the north

thee was some form of government in both North and South- Iraq has a vacuum.

[bluedawg12]

10. Again, Viet Nam had a government to rule when we left

and thus did not fall apart.

Right now Iraq looks to be a mess, with out a unifying, functioning government. When we left Nam Ho Chi Minh had been a leader in the north for decades.

If we leave Iraq now, with damaged infrastructure, chaos, civil society in a shambles the vacuum we would leave is completely different than when we left Nam.

Nam did not fall. But we cannot make the same assumption about Iraq.

[Mend]

7. and you know what happened when we left...

it was the end of the world, NOT. It was all the dominoes falling down, NOT. It was communism all over the world, NOT. Gee, the war ended, all those dead and disfigured, but the good old USA went merrily along with NOT one single problem. And it didn't "dishonor those troops who died".....they just stopped dying. DUH.

[Clarkie1]

9. Iraq is not Vietnam.

That's the worst miscalculation Democratic policy makers can make.

[ginnyinWI]

11. maybe not, but I think we are being lied to all the same

I think they are lying to us now, about reasons we can't leave, same as they did then. * has already tried Nixon's "peace with honor" routine. They want to save themselves politically, and will say anything.

[bluedawg12]

12. From day #1. No WMD's. They made this mess

and now others have to fix it.
Or try.
But it's a mess all the same.

I still say, draw down the troops to maybe 30,000 (wild guess)

Three garrisons, 10,000 soldiers each, in country.

Train Iraqi's from the security of the garrisons.

then get the hell out in a year or less.

draw down, garrison, train, and leave.

[TankLV]

23. How do you ask the last soldier to DIE FOR A LIE?

I can't.

I won't.

[Clarkie1]

13. They've been lying since day one...

That doesn't mean the best thing for the Iraqis, the world is immmediate withdrawl of all U.S. forces, leaving Iraq to be and ruled by whoever proves themselves the most ruthless killer.

I wish it were simple, because we never should have gone there in the first place.

There are things that could happen in Iraq a lot worse than Saddam. When we removed Saddam from power, we accepted responsibility for what happens next.

[bluedawg12]

21. You speak truth.

[TankLV]

22. Yes - we know - it's WORSE!

At least it could be argued that we had SOME good intentions for fighting in Vietnam.

But to continue to persue a WAR OF CHOICE BASED ON LIES is much worse, and all the greater reason to leave NOW!

The only "poor Iraqis" that will be endangered are the collaborators who hooked up with bushco and their fellow WAR CRIMINALS.

I won't loose a single moment fretting over them - and neither should you.

The Iraqi's are big boys. They can take care of themselves if we LET THEM ALONE!

They don't need their BIG WHITE FATHER to look after the BROWN CHILDREN!

Colonialism is so 19th century, anyway.

[cassiepriam]

16. But we cannot stay..... so which will it be?

They care a heck of a lot more about that piece
of land then we ever will. They will win.

[cantstandbush]

18. After we left is when the Viet Namese started doing ok.

As long as we are in Iraq, they have a real reason to hate us and a real reason to organized more "insurgents." If we were to leave, the Iraqi people would take care of their own business.

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

20. Remember the "domino theory?"

Now the supposed "problem" isn't dominos, but that if we pull out of a war we shouldn't have been in to begin with then the terra'sts will see us as weak and attack us more?

* et al have no insight into how the terra'sts think, no insight into much of anything.

He wants to treat the world outside of our borders like he would naughty children. Like HE would, not how I would.

[Lexingtonian]

24. Oh, the domino theory has been proven correct....

Just look at this 'Coalition of the Willing'. The Dominican Republic and then Nicaragua left, El Salvador announced it was leaving but got strongarmed into staying in by the State Department, Thailand bailed and then the Philipines. Tonga, Moldava, Spain, Norway, Portugal, Hungary, and Netherlands are gone. Poland and Ukraine are out, Italy is slipping out the back way. South Korea and Japan are only in under duress. Britain and Australia are the last genuinely Willing members of the Coalition and their electorates continue to slip further against staying in.

When Poland and Ukraine and Bulgaria started breaking for the exit this spring, some Undersecretary of State was sent to Vilnius and basically threatened all the little Eastern European countries and ex-Soviet republics with dreadful consequences (i.e. aid cutoff) if they bailed their couple of dozen troops out too.

Britain has been the glue that held the remains of the 'Coalition' together. When Blair goes the whole game is up.

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

25. I thought you were gonna say the domino theory has been

proven for dominoes. ;)

During the Vietnam war, the theory was if N. Vietnam went communist, then the rest of the nations in SE Asia would fall like dominoes too.

:hippie: :P B-)