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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 01:28 AM
Original message
Joe Wilson is constantly being referred to a a "proven" liar by the Press
and the WH. My question is , about what? They say he was sent to Niger by his wife and Cheney had nothing to do with it. When was this established.They are also saying his credibility was in question? How? wasn't he a Republican? And wasn't he right about the Niger docs? They are also saying the yellow cake docs weren't forgeries! I thought they had previously confirmed they were forgeries! Anybody know when these allegations were "proven' ? Some are alleging he lied to congress! How can they say this?
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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 01:32 AM
Response to Original message
1. By what "press?" I've only seen Republican pundits and talking heads...
refer to him as such.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 02:12 AM
Response to Reply #1
7. Actually many media sources are referring to Wison's wife's sponsorship
of Wison's Niger trip as a given. I haven't seen that proven anywhere. I am just curious as to if it was.
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Son of California Donating Member (467 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 02:34 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. as far as I understand it
Joe's wife was following orders in sending him.
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July Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #9
27. My understanding is that she had no authority to send him anywhere.
Her boss asked her to write up his background, and the decision was made at a higher level than Plame's.
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-14-05 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #27
37. You are correct July. It's been repeated several times today alone
that Valerie didn't have the authority to send anyone anywhere!

Joe had done work for the CIA several times in the past as well. All you have to do is look at his credentials and you'll understand he met the criteria to do this Niger job.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-14-05 09:46 PM
Response to Reply #7
38. Check out these threads..
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enough already Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 06:41 AM
Response to Reply #1
13. It's starting to take hold, however
Also starting to take hold is this idea that "Rove didn't technically commit any crimes." I can see the momentum starting to shift in this story, which is what I predicted would happen. He's going to skate, and probably find a way to club us on the head in the process. When does this shit ever stop?
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Al-CIAda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 07:01 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. Whne the damned opposition grows a set and fights the LIES and distortion!
Edited on Wed Jul-13-05 07:02 AM by Al-CIAda
In other words, never.
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Stray Roots Donating Member (63 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 07:28 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. When Independent World Television gets off the ground
you can't depend on the mediawhores or the Democrats for anything.
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AntiCoup2K4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #17
30. The only way IWT can make an impact is if it's on basic cable everywhere..
...And last I heard, they were only planning on including it on "digital cable systems" at the moment. That means you would have to pay $60 a month to Comcast just to see it. I imagine the cost is just as ridiculous with other cable companies (unless you live in a city that has it's own cable company, which usually run a little bit cheaper)

This is getting off topic, but what is needed in the cable TV industry is the ability for a customer to choose a certain number of channels for a low price, then additional channels for a higher price and so forth. The only reason the corporate fucks won't do it is because they KNOW they couldn't sell 6 shopping channels and FAUX News to anybody.
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Stray Roots Donating Member (63 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-14-05 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #30
34. They are working with Link TV which is offered in most
cable and digital packages.
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dansolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-14-05 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #13
35. Fitzgerald is not listening to the spin
If anyone is going to take down Karl Rove, it will be Patrick Fitzgerald. If you have a dedicated and honorable prosecuter, like Fitzgerald is reputed to be, then he will let the facts, not spin, dictate what Rove's fate will be.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-14-05 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #35
39. As so stated in this article by
Sidney Blumenthal..

<<snippet>>

"The sound and fury of Rove's defenders will soon subside. The last word, the only word that matters, will belong to the prosecutor. So far, he has said very, very little. Unlike the unprofessional, inexperienced and weak Ken Starr, he does not leak illegally to the press. But he has commented publicly on his understanding of the case. "This case," he said, "is not about a whistle-blower. It's about a potential retaliation against a whistle-blower."


Full article link..
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x139418
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Erika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 01:34 AM
Response to Original message
2. It is the WH that is lying
Edited on Wed Jul-13-05 01:35 AM by Erika
the press is just now only getting the guts to report independently. Bush/Rove threw in such a mindset that anyone who disagreed with the W was a traitor, that they are finally waking up and taking their jobs seriously.
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Hissyspit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 01:35 AM
Response to Original message
3. It's called "bullshit."
and spin. They just throw it out to see what sticks.
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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #3
21. Exactly
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madeline_con Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 01:40 AM
Response to Original message
4. Lather rinse repeat,...
If you keep saying something, they hope, people start to believe it.

Look how well it worked for "Saddam" and "Al Qaeda" when Dickless Cheney said it over and over and over and over....
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tinrobot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 01:40 AM
Response to Original message
5. Proven Liars?
Seems like the proven liars are the ones in office.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 01:52 AM
Response to Original message
6. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 02:13 AM
Response to Original message
8. this is a lame ass tactic to divert attention....
Edited on Wed Jul-13-05 02:14 AM by mike_c
It wouldn't matter if Wilson were a snake oil con-artist and thrice convicted child molester-- dumbya would still have lied about the Niger yellowcake connection, and Rove would still have violated national security for the basest of political motives. And the WH would still be fumbling through a desperately Nixonian response-- the stonewall. None of that would change. It's a measure of the wingjob pundits' fear and desperation that they are seeking to discredit Wilson rather than to mitigate the damage directly. The damage will not be undone.
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Stray Roots Donating Member (63 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 03:41 AM
Response to Original message
10. On usenet the spin is the Wilson originally
Edited on Wed Jul-13-05 03:42 AM by Stray Roots
confirmed Bush's findings on yellowcake. Then they say that proves him a dem opportunist. I don't know whether it is true, but I do know, that 1)If it is he is actually an opportunist serving the Bush administration and spreading Bush's lies, 2)If it were true it still wouldn't give Rove or anyone a right to out Plame or any of her underlings and Brewster Jennings and Associates. These people were working under cover to infiltrate groups that were smuggling nuclear technology to Pakistan, Iran and other places. Those REpublican apologists are basically claiming that Rove had a right to compromise American security to get a political enemy.
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 04:32 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Joe's wife was following orders in sending him.Wrong!
Cheney requested that someone at the CIA look into the Yellow Cake situation. Supposedly, Saddam had been trying to purchase some from Niger, a country in Africa. The CIA sent J. Wilson. Yes his wife did vouch for his bona fides but she had absolutely nothing to do with actually sending him. BTW he only got expenses. He didn't get paid to do this.
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joemurphy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 06:36 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. This is exactly what happened. n/t
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FreeStateDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 07:01 AM
Response to Original message
14. Wilson is liar and Kerry crony: Newt on Today Show with no coounterpoint
or questions by media whore Couric (wearing her serious reporter glasses) the smear is on with complete compliance by the corporate media. Without a red hot smoking gun Rove will walk. How do you contact the Today Show to compliment them on being fair and balanced just like Fox? She invited him back on to give his unbiased opinion about SCOTUS appointment.
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Al-CIAda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 07:15 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. The news media is complicit, but the Dem party is pathetic. Professional
dive-takers. Where is the opposition to lies, theft, and murder? The bastards are trying their best to let the DSM fade.
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FreeStateDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #16
24. You may have a point, why doesn't the Democratic leadership demand
equal access to the media and provide the counterpoint representatives to appear and argue repuke talking points? The American public does believe in fair play and the democratic leadership can get access to corporate media if they raise enough hell, but our leadership does too little too late and always gets steamrolled.
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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 08:08 AM
Response to Original message
18. NYT article today speaks too your question...let's hope M$M reads it!
Edited on Wed Jul-13-05 08:16 AM by flpoljunkie
The entire contretemps at the White House this week centers on whether Mr. Rove tried to discredit Mr. Wilson by suggesting that his mission to Niger was the product of nepotism, and that Ms. Wilson had arranged for it. Why a mission to Niger would be such a plum assignment is still a mystery, but the Senate Intelligence Committee, in a report last year, quotes a State Department official as saying that Ms. Wilson had suggested sending her husband. She denies it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/13/politics/13memo.html?pagewanted=2&ei=5094&en=6147bd6550de8972&hp&ex=1121313600&partner=homepage
_______________

Wasn't John Bolton with the State Department, as Undersecretary for Arms Control--not to accuse the man without any proof, of course...

Indeed he was...

.John R. Bolton
UN Ambassador-designate
Undersecretary of State for Arms Control and International Security Affairs (2001-2005)
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July Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #18
28. I thought I had read that the CIA had also denied her sending Wilson.
Anyone remember that?
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 08:13 AM
Response to Original message
19. We need to work hard to end
this copulation between the republican party and the media if we are to have any chance of remaining a free nation. It's time for protests at the headquarters of the media and out them for the political operatives they are.
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 08:15 AM
Response to Original message
20. Anyone who does not agree with the Bush Doctrine of what "truth" is...
is labelled a "liar". All Democrats, except maybe Lieberman -- whose kisses drive Bush wild -- are "liars".

TC
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 08:21 AM
Response to Original message
22. I wish these operatives in the media
could be charged with obstruction of justice.
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 08:46 AM
Response to Original message
23. "Joe Wilson was a liar! I had to destroy his wife!" is a great defense
Edited on Wed Jul-13-05 08:46 AM by emulatorloo
don't you think?

I mean really, Karl Rove should be fired just for coming up w this lame talking point.
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kodi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 09:35 AM
Response to Original message
25. the devil is in the details read the data below the accusations are bogus
So many places to start, but in this case the beginning might as well be this, viz., the Report of Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, because that is the document being used to attack Joe Wilson’s veracity and thus undermine his New York Times article of June 6, 2003, which itself was an attack on the truthfulness of the Bush Administration in the run-up to the Iraq War.

Wilson’s article provoked a retaliatory response from the Bush administration that “his wife is fair game,” according to Chris Mathews relating a phone call from Karl Rove. A subsequent leak to the press (at least six press members were contacted) provided information as to the CIA position of Wilson’s wife. Her job and her employment with the CIA were considered covert.
Because her covert status was revealed in the press it was considered by the CIA to be a matter to be investigated by the Dept of Justice. The Grand Jury investigation is centering upon White House employees having leaked the confidential information to the press.

So, proceeding, first, the actual words in the Report that are the reference point for the attacks on Wilson’s honesty instead of wilful mutant didactions found strewn all over FreeperLand that have also appeared here.

From an appendix to the actual Report, entitled “Additional View” There are nine “Additional Views” sign by from one to six Senators. This one is signed by three Senators.

http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/13jul20041400/www.gpoaccess.gov/serialset/creports/pdf/s108-301/roberts.pdf

http://www.gpoaccess.gov/serialset/creports/iraq.html

Despite our hard and successhl work to deliver a unanimous report, however,
there were two issues on which the Republicans and Democrats could not agree: 1)
whether the Committee should conclude that former Ambassador Joseph Wilson’s public
statements were not based on knowledge he actually possessed, and 2) whether the
Committee should conclude that it was the former ambassador’swife who recommended
him for his trip to Niger.
Niger
The Committee began its review of prewar intelligence on Iraq by examining the
Intelligence Community’s sharing of intelligence information with the UNMOVIC
inspection teams. (The Committee’s findings on that topic can be found in the section of
the report titled, “The Intelligence Community’s Sharing of Intelligence on Iraqi Suspect
WMD Sites with UN Inspectors.”) Shortly thereafter, we expanded the review when
former Ambassador Joseph Wilson began speaking publicly about his role in exploring
the possibility that Iraq was seeking or may have acquired uranium yellowcake from

Page 442 -
Africa. Ambassador Wilson’s emergence was precipitated by a passage in President
Bush’s January 2003 State of the Union address which is now referred to as “the sixteen
words.” President Bush stated, “. . .the British government has learned that Saddam
Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.” The details of the
Committee’s findings and conclusions on this issue can be found in the Niger section of
the report. What cannot be found, however, are two conclusions upon which the
Committee’s Democrats would not agree. While there was no dispute with the
underlying facts, my Democrat colleagues rehsed to allow the following conclusions to
appear in the report:
Conclusion: The plan to send the former ambassador to Niger was
suggested by the former ambassador’s wife, a CIA employee.
The former ambassador’s wife suggested her husband for the trip
to Niger in February 2002. The former ambassador had traveled
previously to Niger on behalf of the CIA, also at the suggestion of his
wife, to look into another matter not related to Iraq. On February 12,
2002, the former ambassador’swife sent a memorandum to a Deputy
Chief of a division in the CIA’SDirectorate of Operations which said,
and
the former Minister of Mines (not to mention lots of French contacts), both
of whom could possibly shed light on this sort of activity.’’ This was just
one day before the same Directorate of Operations division sent a cable to
one of its overseas stations requesting concurrence with the division’s idea
to send the former ambassador to Niger.
Conclusion: Rather than speaking publicly about his actual
experiences during his inquiry of the Niger issue, the former
ambassador seems to have included information he learned from
press accounts and from his beliefs about how the Intelligence
Community would have or should have handled the information he
provided.
At the time the former ambassador traveled to Niger, the
Intelligence Community did not have in its possession any actual
documents on the alleged Niger-Iraq uranium deal, only second hand
reporting of the deal. The former ambassador’s comments to reporters that
the Niger-Iraq uranium documents “may have been forged because ‘the
dates were wrong and the names were ~ o n g , ” ’ could not have been based
on the forrner ambassador’s actual experiences because the Intelligence
Community did not have the documents at the time of the ambassador’s
trip. In addition, nothing in the report from the former ambassador’strip
said anything about documents having been forged or the names or dates
Page 443
in the reports having been incorrect. The former ambassador told
Committee staff that he, in fact, did not have access to any of the names
and dates in the CIA’s reports and said he may have become confbsed
about his own recollection after the International Atomic Energy Agency
(IAEA) reported in March 2003 that the names and dates on the
documents were not correct. Of note, the names and dates in the
documents that the IAEA found to be incorrect were not names or dates
included in the CIA reports.
Following the Vice President’s review of an intelligence report
regarding a possible uranium deal, he asked his briefer for the CIA’s
analysis of the issue. It was this request which generated Mr. Wilson’s trip
to Niger. The former ambassador’s public comments suggesting that the
Vice President had been briefed on the information gathered during his
trip is not correct, however. While the CIA responded to the Vice
President’s request for the Agency’s analysis, they never provided the
information gathered by the former Ambassador. The former ambassador,
in an NBC Meet the Press interview on July 6,2003, said, “The office of
the Vice President, I am absolutely convinced, received a very specific
response to the question it asked and that response was based upon my trip
out there.” The former ambassador was speaking on the basis of what he
believed should have happened based on his former government
experience, but he had no knowledge that this did happen.
These and other public comments from the former ambassador,
such as comments that his report “debunked” the Niger-Iraq uranium
story, were incorrect and have led to a distortion in the press and in the
public’s understanding of the facts surrounding the Niger-Iraq uranium
story. The Committee found that, for most analysts, the former
ambassador’s report lent more credibility, not less, to the reported Niger-
Iraq uranium deal.
During Mr. Wilson’s media blitz, he appeared on more than thirty television
shows including entertainment venues. Time and again, Joe Wilson told anyone who
would listen that the President had lied to the American people, that the Vice President
had lied, and that he had “debunked” the claim that Iraq was seeking uranium from
Africa. As discussed in the Niger section of the report, not only did he NOT “debunk”
the claim, he actually gave some intelligence analysts even more reason to believe that it
may be true. I believed very strongly that it was important for the Committee to conclude
publicly that many of the statements made by Ambassador Wilson were not only
incorrect, but had no basis in fact.

Page444 -

In an interview with Committee staff, Mr. Wilson was asked how he knew some
of the things he was stating publicly with such confidence. On at least two occasions he
admitted that he had no direct knowledge to support some of his claims and that he was
drawing on either unrelated past experiences or no information at all. For example, when
asked how he “knew” that the Intelligence Community had rejected the possibility of a
Niger-Iraq uranium deal, as he wrote in his book, he told Committee staff that his
assertion may have involved “a little literary flair.”
The former Ambassador, either by design or though ignorance, gave the
American people and, for that matter, the world a version of events that was inaccurate,
unsubstantiated, and misleading. Surely, the Senate Intelligence Committee, which has
unique access to all of the facts, should have been able to agree on a conclusion that
would correct the public record. Unfortunately, we were unable to do so.


Yes indeed, harsh words for Mr. Wilson from three of the US Senators on that committee.

However, it should be noted that there were eighteen members of the US Senate on that committee, and all nine Democratic members along with six Republican US Senators refused to sign on to the aforementioned interpretation of the “facts.”

Again, lay side by side this minority viewpoint with Wilson’s rebuttal at Salon.com and his subsequent reply to the article in the Post and you can see why 15 US Senators did not sign on to what the minority view was stating. I could understand using this minority view if it was a majority view to attack Wilson, but is it not standard fare to use what the majority is saying is true instead of a minority view? When did we start saying that we all agree that what 1 out of 6 say is the way it is? Why were five out of six Senators wrong?

1 out of 6 americans also believe elvis is still alive and you can't convince that otherwise either.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2004/07/16/wilson_letter/index_np.htm

July 15, 2004
The Hon. Pat Roberts, Chairman, Senate Select Committee on Intelligence

The Hon. Jay Rockefeller, Vice Chairman, Senate Select Committee on Intelligence

Dear Sen. Roberts and Sen. Rockefeller,

I read with great surprise and consternation the Niger portion of Sens. Roberts, Bond and Hatch's additional comments to the Senate Select Intelligence Committee's Report on the U.S. Intelligence Community's Prewar Assessment on Iraq. I am taking this opportunity to clarify some of the issues raised in these comments.
First conclusion: "The plan to send the former ambassador to Niger was suggested by the former ambassador's wife, a CIA employee."
That is not true. The conclusion is apparently based on one anodyne quote from a memo Valerie Plame, my wife, sent to her superiors that says, "My husband has good relations with the PM and the former Minister of Mines (not to mention lots of French contacts), both of whom could possibly shed light on this sort of activity." There is no suggestion or recommendation in that statement that I be sent on the trip. Indeed it is little more than a recitation of my contacts and bona fides. The conclusion is reinforced by comments in the body of the report that a CPD reports officer stated that "the former ambassador's wife 'offered up his name'" (page 39) and a State Department intelligence and research officer stated that the "meeting was 'apparently convened by wife who had the idea to dispatch him to use his contacts to sort out the Iraq-Niger uranium issue."

In fact, Valerie was not in the meeting at which the subject of my trip was raised. Neither was the CPD reports officer. After having escorted me into the room, she departed the meeting to avoid even the appearance of conflict of interest. It was at that meeting where the question of my traveling to Niger was broached with me for the first time and came only after a thorough discussion of what the participants did and did not know about the subject. My bona fides justifying the invitation to the meeting were the trip I had previously taken to Niger to look at other uranium-related questions as well as 20 years living and working in Africa, and personal contacts throughout the Niger government. Neither the CPD reports officer nor the State analyst were in the chain of command to know who, or how, the decision was made. The interpretations attributed to them are not the full story. In fact, it is my understanding that the reports officer has a different conclusion about Valerie's role than the one offered in the "additional comments." I urge the committee to reinterview the officer and publicly publish his statement.

It is unfortunate that the report failed to include the CIA's position on this matter. If the staff had done so it would undoubtedly have been given the same evidence as provided to Newsday reporters Tim Phelps and Knut Royce in July 2003. They reported on July 22 that:

"A senior intelligence officer confirmed that Plame was a Directorate of Operations undercover officer who worked 'alongside' the operations officers who asked her husband to travel to Niger. But he said she did not recommend her husband to undertake the Niger assignment. 'They were aware of who she was married to, which is not surprising,' he said. 'There are people elsewhere in government who are trying to make her look like she was the one who was cooking this up, for some reason,' he said. 'I can't figure out what it could be.' 'We paid his airfare. But to go to Niger is not exactly a benefit. Most people you'd have to pay big bucks to go there,' the senior intelligence official said. Wilson said he was reimbursed only for expenses." (Newsday article "Columnist Blows CIA Agent's Cover," dated July 22, 2003).

In fact, on July 13 of this year, David Ensor, the CNN correspondent, did call the CIA for a statement of its position and reported that a senior CIA official confirmed my account that Valerie did not propose me for the trip:

"'She did not propose me,' he said -- others at the CIA did so. A senior CIA official said that is his understanding too."
Second conclusion: "Rather than speaking publicly about his actual experiences during his inquiry of the Niger issue, the former ambassador seems to have included information he learned from press accounts and from his beliefs about how the Intelligence Community would have or should have handled the information he provided."
This conclusion states that I told the committee staff that I "may have become confused about my own recollection after the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) reported that the names and dates on the documents were not correct." At the time that I was asked that question, I was not afforded the opportunity to review the articles to which the staff was referring. I have now done so.
On March 7, 2003, the director general of the IAEA reported to the U.N. Security Council that the documents that had been given to him were "not authentic." His deputy, Jacques Baute, was even more direct, pointing out that the forgeries were so obvious that a quick Google search would have exposed their flaws. A State Department spokesman was quoted the next day as saying about the forgeries, "We fell for it." From that time on the details surrounding the documents became public knowledge and were widely reported. I was not the source of information regarding the forensic analysis of the documents in question; the IAEA was.

The first time I spoke publicly about the Niger issue was in response to the State Department's disclaimer. On CNN a few days later, in response to a question, I replied that I believed the U.S. government knew more about the issue than the State Department spokesman had let on and that he had misspoken. I did not speak of my trip.

My first public statement was in my article of July 6 published in the New York Times, written only after it became apparent that the administration was not going to deal with the Niger question unless it was forced to. I wrote the article because I believed then, and I believe now, that it was important to correct the record on the statement in the president's State of the Union address which lent credence to the charge that Iraq was actively reconstituting its nuclear weapons program. I believed that the record should reflect the facts as the U.S. government had known them for over a year. The contents of my article do not appear in the body of the report and it is not quoted in the "additional comments." In that article, I state clearly that "as for the actual memorandum, I never saw it. But news accounts have pointed out that the documents had glaring errors -- they were signed, for example, by officials who were no longer in government -- and were probably forged. (And then there's the fact that Niger formally denied the charges.)"

The first time I actually saw what were represented as the documents was when Andrea Mitchell, the NBC correspondent, handed them to me in an interview on July 21. I was not wearing my glasses and could not read them. I have to this day not read them. I would have absolutely no reason to claim to have done so. My mission was to look into whether such a transaction took place or could take place. It had not and could not. By definition that makes the documents bogus.

The text of the "additional comments" also asserts that "during Mr. Wilson's media blitz, he appeared on more than thirty television shows including entertainment venues. Time and again, Joe Wilson told anyone who would listen that the President had lied to the American people, that the Vice President had lied, and that he had 'debunked' the claim that Iraq was seeking uranium from Africa."
My article in the New York Times makes clear that I attributed to myself "a small role in the effort to verify information about Africa's suspected link to Iraq's nonconventional weapons programs." After it became public that there were then-Ambassador to Niger Barbro Owens-Kirkpatrick's report and the report from a four-star Marine Corps general, Carleton Fulford, in the files of the U.S. government, I went to great lengths to point out that mine was but one of three reports on the subject. I never claimed to have "debunked" the allegation that Iraq was seeking uranium from Africa. I claimed only that the transaction described in the documents that turned out to be forgeries could not have occurred and did not occur. I did not speak out on the subject until several months after it became evident that what underpinned the assertion in the State of the Union address were those documents, reports of which had sparked Vice President Cheney's original question that led to my trip. The White House must have agreed. The day after my article appeared in the Times a spokesman for the president told the Washington Post that "the sixteen words did not rise to the level of inclusion in the State of the Union."

I have been very careful to say that while I believe that the use of the 16 words in the State of the Union address was a deliberate attempt to deceive the Congress of the United States, I do not know what role the president may have had other than he has accepted responsibility for the words he spoke. I have also said on many occasions that I believe the president has proven to be far more protective of his senior staff than they have been to him
The "additional comments" also assert: "The Committee found that, for most analysts, the former ambassador's report lent more credibility, not less, to the reported Niger-Iraq uranium deal." In fact, the body of the Senate report suggests the exact opposite:

In August 2002, a CIA NESA report on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction capabilities did not include the alleged Iraq-Niger uranium information. (page 48)

In September 2002, during coordination of a speech with an NSC staff member, the CIA analyst suggested the reference to Iraqi attempts to acquire uranium from Africa be removed. The CIA analyst said the NSC staff member said that would leave the British "flapping in the wind." (page 50)

The uranium text was included in the body of the NIE but not in the key judgments. When someone suggested that the uranium information be included as another sign of reconstitution, the INR Iraq nuclear analyst spoke up and said the he did not agree with the uranium reporting and that INR would be including text indicating their disagreement in their footnote on nuclear reconstitution. The NIO said he did not recall anyone really supporting including the uranium issue as part of the judgment that Iraq was reconstituting its nuclear program, so he suggested that the uranium information did not need to be part of the key judgments. He told committee staff that he suggested, "We'll leave it in the paper for completeness. Nobody can say we didn't connect the dots. But we don't have to put that dot in the key judgments." (page 53)

On Oct. 2, 2002, the Deputy DCI testified before the SSCI . Sen. Jon Kyl asked the Deputy DCI whether he had read the British White Paper and whether he disagreed with anything in the report. The Deputy DCI testified that "the one thing where I think they stretched a little bit beyond where we would stretch is on the points about Iraq seeking uranium from various African locations." (page 54)

On Oct. 4, 2002, the NIO for Strategic and Nuclear Programs testified that "there is some information on attempts ... there's a question about those attempts because of the control of the material in those countries ... For us it's more the concern that they have uranium in-country now." (page 54)

On Oct. 5, 2002, the ADDI said an Iraqi nuclear analyst -- he could not remember who -- raised concerns about the sourcing and some of the facts of the Niger reporting, specifically that the control of the mines in Niger would have made it very difficult to get yellowcake to Iraq. (page 55)

Based on the analyst's comments, the ADDI faxed a memo to the deputy national security advisor that said, "Remove the sentence because the amount is in dispute and it is debatable whether it can be acquired from this source. We told Congress that the Brits have exaggerated this issue. Finally, the Iraqis already have 550 metric tons of uranium oxide in their inventory." (page 56)

On Oct. 6, 2002, the DCI called the deputy national security advisor directly to outline the CIA's concerns. The DCI testified to the SSCI on July 16, 2003, that he told the deputy national security advisor that the "President should not be a fact witness on this issue," because his analysts had told him the "reporting was weak." (page 56)

On Oct. 6, 2002, the CIA sent a second fax to the White House that said, "More on why we recommend removing the sentence about procuring uranium oxide from Africa: Three points (1) The evidence is weak. One of the two mines cited by the source as the location of the uranium oxide is flooded. The other mine cited by the source is under the control of the French authorities. (2) The procurement is not particularly significant to Iraq's nuclear ambitions because the Iraqis already have a large stock of uranium oxide in their inventory. And (3) we have shared points one and two with Congress, telling them that the Africa story is overblown and telling them this is one of the two issues where we differed with the British." (page 56)

On March 8, 2003, the intelligence report on my trip was disseminated within the U.S. government, according to the Senate report (page 43). Further, the Senate report states that "in early March, the Vice President asked his morning briefer for an update on the Niger uranium issue." That update from the CIA "also noted that the CIA would be debriefing a source who may have information related to the alleged sale on March 5." The report then states the "DO officials also said they alerted WINPAC
analysts when the report was being disseminated because they knew the high priority of the issue." The report notes that the CIA briefer did not brief the vice president on the report. (page 46)

It is clear from the body of the Senate report that the intelligence community, including the DCI himself, made several attempts to ensure that the president did not become a "fact witness" on an allegation that was so weak. A thorough reading of the report substantiates the claim made in my opinion piece in the New York Times and in subsequent interviews I have given on the subject. The 16 words should never have been in the State of the Union address, as the White House now acknowledges.

I undertook this mission at the request of my government in response to a legitimate concern that Saddam Hussein was attempting to reconstitute his nuclear weapons program. This was a national security issue that has concerned me since I was the deputy chief of mission in the U.S. Embassy in Iraq before and during the first Gulf War.

At the time of my trip I was in private business and had not offered my views publicly on the policy we should adopt toward Iraq. Indeed, throughout the debate in the run-up to the war, I took the position that the U.S. be firm with Saddam Hussein on the question of weapons of mass destruction programs, including backing tough diplomacy with the credible threat of force. In that debate I never mentioned my trip to Niger. I did not share the details of my trip until May 2003, after the war was over, and then only when it became clear that the administration was not going to address the issue of the State of the Union statement.

It is essential that the errors and distortions in the additional comments be corrected for the public record. Nothing could be more important for the American people than to have an accurate picture of the events that led to the decision to bring the United States into war in Iraq. The Senate Intelligence Committee has an obligation to present to the American people the factual basis of that process. I hope that this letter is helpful in that effort. I look forward to your further "additional comments."

Sincerely,
Joseph C. Wilson IV, Washington, D.C.

The Post’s article was a redaction of several details of a minority appendix to the Report of Senate Select Committee on Intelligence. Wilson replied to the specific details of these interpretations of facts linked at salon.com on July 15, 2004.

Anyway, Wilson replied to an article in the washington post that quoted from the above minority "additional view" in a redacted form publically within days.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A56501-2004Jul16.html

Debunking Distortions About My Trip to Niger

Saturday, July 17, 2004; Page A17

For the second time in a year, your paper has published an article falsely suggesting that my wife, Valerie Plame, was responsible for the trip I took to Niger on behalf of the U.S. government to look into allegations that Iraq had sought to purchase several hundred tons of yellowcake uranium from that West African country. Last July 14, Robert Novak, claiming two senior sources, exposed Valerie as an "agency operative suggested sending him to Niger." Novak went ahead with his column despite the fact that the CIA had urged him not to disclose her identity. That leak to Novak may well have been a federal crime and is under investigation.

In the year since the betrayal of Valerie's covert status, it has been widely understood that she is irrelevant to the unpaid mission I undertook or the conclusions I reached. But your paper's recent article acted as a funnel for this scurrilous and extraneous charge, uncritically citing the Republican-written Senate Select Committee on Intelligence report.

The decision to send me to Niger was not made, and could not be made, by Valerie. At the conclusion of a meeting that she did not attend, I was asked by CIA officials whether I would be willing to travel to Niger. While a CIA reports officer and a State Department analyst, both cited in the report, speculate about what happened, neither of them was in the chain of command that made the decision to send me. Reams of documents were given over to the Senate committee, but the only quotation attributed to my wife on this subject was the anodyne "my husband has good relations with both the PM (Prime Minister) and the former Minister of Mines (not to mention lots of French contacts), both of whom could possibly shed light on this sort of activity." In fact, with 2-year-old twins at home, Valerie did not relish my absence for a two-week period. But she acquiesced because, in the zeal to be responsive to the legitimate concerns raised by the vice president, officials of her agency turned to a known functionary who had previously checked out uranium-related questions for them.

But that is not the only inaccurate assertion or conclusion in the Senate report uncritically parroted in the article. Other inaccuracies and distortions include the suggestion that my findings "bolstered" the case that Niger was engaged in illegal sales of uranium to Iraq. In fact, the Senate report is clear that the intelligence community attempted to keep the claim out of presidential documents because of the weakness of the evidence.
The facts surrounding my trip remain the same. I traveled to Niger and found it unlikely that Iraq had attempted to purchase several hundred tons of yellowcake uranium. In his 2003 State of the Union address, President Bush referred to Iraqi attempts to purchase uranium "from Africa." Between March 2003 and July 2003, the administration refused to acknowledge that it had known for more than a year that the claim on uranium sales from Niger had been discredited, until the day after my article in the New York Times. The next day the White House issued a statement that "the sixteen words did not rise to the level of inclusion in the State of the Union address." Those facts are amply supported in the Senate report.

-- Joseph C. Wilson IV

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grumpy old fart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
26. The problem appears to come from the Senate Intelligence Committee rpt....
of last week. It's a problem as it will sidetrack the immediate issue....

"Wilson's assertions -- both about what he found in Niger and what the Bush administration did with the information -- were undermined yesterday in a bipartisan Senate intelligence committee report".

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A39834-2004Jul9.html
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July Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
29. Response: Rove is a proven cheater.
Going way back. Fired by GHWB. Found to have bugged his own office to blame a rival of a candidate he was working for. Etc.

Additionally, Wilson is not a proven liar.
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LSK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 11:21 AM
Response to Original message
31. there is a Senate committee report from last week
In it there are claims that Valery suggested to co-workers that she suggested her husband for the job. I have seen this in a pdf file of the report last night.

Now I am troubled about what Plames role was in how Wilson got the job??? Wilson had repeatedly denied that Plame had anything to do with it, but the Senate report suggests otherwise.

So what is the real answer?


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many a good man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-14-05 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #31
36. Suggested. Recommended. Offered. ?
The report states that a CIA official told the Senate committee that Plame "offered up" Wilson's name for the Niger trip, then on Feb. 12, 2002, sent a memo to a deputy chief in the CIA's Directorate of Operations saying her husband "has good relations with both the PM and the former Minister of Mines (not to mention lots of French contacts), both of whom could possibly shed light on this sort of activity." The next day, the operations official cabled an overseas officer seeking concurrence with the idea of sending Wilson, the report said.

Did Wilson claim his wife "had nothing to do with it?" The article takes the following quote out of context. He was speaking in terms of authorization. He was speaking in the context of who came up with idea to send someone and who authorized the mission.

"Valerie had nothing to do with the matter," Wilson wrote in a memoir published this year. "She definitely had not proposed that I make the trip."

Wilson stood by his assertion in an interview yesterday, saying Plame was not the person who made the decision to send him. Of her memo, he said: "I don't see it as a recommendation to send me."


My take: Valerie was in a meeting where they discussed sending someone to Niger to follow up on this matter. She of course mentioned that Joe would be a good candidate in her objective professional opinion. She also was aware that the CIA had sent him on a similar mission in 1999. Why else would they bring it up in her presence? She did not bring up the idea of sending someone to Niger. She did not have the authority to decide to send him on the trip. They asked her to ask him if he would go and she did. IMO this is a total non-issue.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
32. Posted this yesterday. Repubs PLANTED their spin in Senate Intel Report
last year. They prepared for this last year by putting up strawmen questions into the report that make Wilson appear to be lying, when it's actually the questions, themselves that are the lie.

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grumpy old fart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. I heard that Dem witnesses were denied an opportunity to speak at ........
the hearings that led to this report. Any links or info on this assertion?
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