Conservative democrats

[Pinko]

Are there still any conservative democrats left? I'm not talking about DLC-style pro-corporate "centrists", but actual conservatives that are members of the Democratic Party (think Zell Miller).

[napi21]

1. I guess it depends on your definition of a conserv. dem.

I suppose you could consider Nelson of Fl to be one. Possibly, some here would say if you look at voting records, there is a group of Dems who's vote you'r never sure of. If that indicates that they actually judge each issue and cast their vote accordingly, they that would be my definition of a conservative dem, at least to some degree.

[UnityDem]

9. Did you mean Nelson of Nebraska?

I think he is more conservative than Nelson of Florida. I would consider him to be the most conservative Dem in the Senate. Many in the House (especially from southern states - including David Scott - from Georgia).

[napi21]

Well, I guess both Nelsons are pretty conserv. but no I meant

the one in Fl. I don't live in Fl. but I've read many posts here on Du about him, and seems the conceensus is that he has to be pretty conserv. because of the general sttitude of the population of the state.

[napi21]

25. Well, I guess both Nelsons are pretty conserv. but no I meant

the one in Fl. I don't live in Fl. but I've read many posts here on Du about him, and seems the conceensus is that he has to be pretty conserv. because of the general sttitude of the population of the state.

[Poppyseedman]

2. Why. Are you lonely?

You won't find that type of political animal posting here

[Deja Q]

3. They're also known as 'centrists'

[acmejack]

4. aka DLC

Blue Dogs, new Dems.

[Pinko]

16. I'm not a conservative democrat

and I'm aware that there aren't any of them here. I just happen to be interested in them as a faction (and not one I'm proud of sharing a party with). As for Nebraska Nelson, he is pretty right wing (Ben Nelson on the issues).

[wyldwolf]

17. so your question are is there any conservative democrats on DU?

No, but According to the Pew Research Center study, Conservative Democrats are 15% of registered voters in the U.S.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_Democrats#1946-1964:_The_Vital_Center_and_the_End_of_Ideology

[Poppyseedman]

28. I thought we were the party of the big tent???

"I'm not a conservative democrat" (and not one I'm proud of sharing a party with)

With that attitude no wonder we are getting our asses handed to us.

[Pinko]

49. Two things

First, I was asking about politicians who were conservative democrats. Worded myself a little unclearly, apparently. Sorry 'bout that.
Also, I'm all for the "big tent" principle. It just seems to me that if somebody has stands that are, basing ourselves on official party programs, closer to the Republican than Democratic ones, while at the same time being registered Democrats, that's a little absurd.

[wyldwolf]

57. official party programs?

Like what?

[Mountainman]

5. They are also known as DINOs

When the South was segregated the Democrats controlled the politics. Strom Thurmond led them away from the Democratic Party because the Democratic party began to join with the civil rights leaders. Most Dems who were against integration changed their party affiliation to Republican but some did not. They remained the the Democratic party but vote with the Republicans most of the time.

In my opinion the party you belong to has much less to do with things than the way you vote. If you are a Dem and vote with the Repukes you are a Dem in name only. A conservative Democrat is akin to a Christian Muslim.

[FW_]

6. Yes

My Congressman is one

http://www.house.gov/boyd/

The Florida Democractic Party in Tallahassee had signs for all of the candidates running last November and then a teeny tiny Boyd sign. Scary thing, he's much, much, much better than the whacko who ran against him.

Notice the link to the Blue Dog Demorcats at the bottom right of the page.

[wyldwolf]

10. "DINOS" are plentiful on the left, too

When the South was segregated the Democrats controlled the politics.

Actually, that isn't the case. The FDR coalition of voters who put the Dems in power in the 1930s included the urban workers and middle class, small farmers, the "Solid South," northern African-American voters (who had traditionally been Republicans), Jews and other urban ethnic minorities, intellectuals and political liberals.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FDR

Strom Thurmond led them away from the Democratic Party because the Democratic party began to join with the civil rights leaders.

Well, only a very few. Strom Thurmond managed just 39 electoral votes and 2.4% of the popular vote in 1948. This faction hardly controlled anything.

We started losing Southern Democrats in the late 60s. They still voted Democrat on local and state levels but voted Republican in presidential elections.

Similarly, Henry Wallace (a former FDR Vice President) broke from the Democratic party that same year (1948) because they weren't liberal enough. He reformed the "Progressive Party" and managed just 2.4% of the vote with ZERO electoral votes.

My guess is the same would be true today. If the very liberal of the party and the very conservative of the party left, we'd lose about 4%.

As two recent polls suggest, both the majority of party leadership and the rank and file voters want the party to take a more moderate approach.

[FW_]

20. Dixiecrats

I'm writing my dissertation on this and how it related to Florida, fun stuff (note the sarcasm).

[wyldwolf]

21. I'd love to read it when you're done

I'm very interested in the history of the Dem party from 1932 to the present and have studied it a lot.

[FW_]

42. I'd love to share

I'm just doing research now though so it might be a couple of more years.

[wyldwolf]

46. I have the luxury of being friends with some real old time Southern Dems

If you need some anecdotal input or some clarifications from folks who lived through it, lemme know.

[FW_]

60. Thanks

I'll keep that in mind. I'm actually modifying my topic, really narrowing it down so I can finish in this lifetime to focus on how anti-Communism was used to attack integration and promote "morality" in Florida in the 50's and 60's, but obviously this was all done by Florida's conservative Democrats.

[wyldwolf]

61. well, the liberal movement from FDR to the end of the cold war

...(or at least until the late 60s/early 70s) was fiercely anti-communist.

In fact, Henry Wallace (former VP for FDR) broke from the Democratic party in '48 and reformed the Progressive Party because he disagreed with Truman's policy on the Soviet Union.

[FW_]

62. Yes it was but.......

I'm referring to the Johns Committee led by pro-segregationist Dixiecrats which tried to discredit the NAACP and when that was unsuccessful attacked the University of Florida and used Gestapo like tactics to force the resignation of 20+ homosexual professors and then attacked the University of South Florida for its "moral depravity".

The links to today are eery and scary.

[Clark2008]

12. Your comparison is not accurate.

There is no such thing as a Christian Muslim - it's impossible.

However, one can be conservative on a few issues and still be a Democrat on most issues, which doesn't necessarily make you a DINO.

And, obviously, you've bought into the DU explanation of Southern politics - which is completely incorrect. The South only started becoming more Republican in the past few years, with the Republican Southern Strategy. The Dems need one because if rural voters actually heard the pure Dem message - as opposed to the bastardized Dem message they get from all the Reich-wing media - they would go back to the Dem Party in droves.

I grew up in Tennessee under two Dem senators and the state voted for Carter the first time and Clinton both times. Republicans were only in the majority in my very-conservative region - the rest of the state was Dem. I'm only 35, so this shift to the right has only occurred in the past five years.

[u2spirit]

59. Sums up my grandparents

I'm from Oklahoma. My grandparents on my fathers side were lifelong Democrats. However, Jimmy Carter was the last Democrat they voted for. They always told me the Democratic party left them, not the other way around. They never bothered to change their registration. My grandpa told me he liked to vote in the primaries as a Democrat so he could vote for the weakest opponent for the repukes.

[atommom]

7. The most conservative I know are the Blue Dogs

in the House. My own rep is a member of this coalition, and has the backing of many moderate Repubs in the district as a result. (As for the hardcore Dems, we often curse him, but he's always the lesser of two evils at election time!)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Dog_Democrats

[wyldwolf]

8. pinko, just as a point of reference

Zell Miller didn't become conservative in the way you are thinking until someone made him a good offer. Zell used to be very liberal.

Rural working class Democrats tend to be more conservative in the tradition of the party from FDR to Johnson.

[KingFlorez]

11. Dying Breed

There are a few left, but there used to be much more. I know some people aren't going to like this, but these kind of Democrats are why we controlled the House. In the 80s and 90s we still did well in the South because of the 'Big Tent'. That changed after '94 when we stopped running these types of candidates. The fact remains a lot of Southern conserveratives trust a Blue Dog more than a Republican.

[wyldwolf]

13. no disagreement here

The late 60s was a catalyst to our eventual big congressional losses in 1994.

In the late 60s, southern Democrats were starting to trend Republican in their voting habits because of the 60s counter culture being unidentified with Democrats. In fact, Old guard Democrats from FDR's time nationally began trending Republican for this reason.

Reagan's victory in 1980 was a big exclamation point and the congressional losses in 1994 confirmed it.

[wyldwolf]

14. I guess you need a straight out answer. Yes

There are MANY conservative Democrats.

However, I don't know where to draw the line on what conservative-moderate-liberal is.

I suspect, though, if I used the standards often applied on Democratic Underground, it would be revealed that the "liberal" wing of the party are the minority. Again, that is only using the litmus test purity standards often seen on DU.

---------------------------------

Some see conservative Democrats as usually centrist, moderate, and considered a bit more reasonable than the die-hard partisan politicians who often enter into the legislative fray. Conservative Democrats believe in social programs, i.e., social security, Medicare, Medicaid, etc. They want all Americans to have health care coverage and guaranteed pensions, and are vehemently opposed to the idea of privatizing any of these institutions. They are usually religious and almost always Christian. Their ideas about marriage, abortion, and, to an extent, the death penalty, are sometimes more compatible with the Republican way of thinking. Many of them support stem cell research but oppose abortion, a view that has led some to call them hypocrites who hold double standards.

This viewpoint is supported by the Pew Research Center and their study "Beyond Red Vs. Blue" <1>. This study identifies Conservative Democrats as one of three core Democratic Party constituencies (the other two being Liberals and Disadvantaged Democrats). Conservative Democrats are distinguishable by liberal views on economic issues (a populist orientation setting them apart from conservative Republicans and explaining their continued allegience to the Democratic Party), with their conservatism being on other issues: "Religious orientation and conservative views set this group apart from other Democratic-leaning groups on many social and political issues. Conservative Democrats' views are moderate with respect to key policy issues such as foreign policy, regulation of the environment and the role of government in providing a social safety net...Less extreme on moral beliefs than core Republican groups, but most oppose gay marriage and the acceptance of homosexuality, and support a more active role for government in protecting morality. No more conservative than the national average on other social issues such as abortion and stem-cell research. Most oppose the war in Iraq, but views of America's overall foreign policy are mixed..."

According to the Pew Research Center study, Conservative Democrats are 15% of registered voters in the U.S., voted for Kerry over Bush by a 65%-14% margin in 2004, and were identified in past Pew Research Center studies as New Dealers rather than Conservative Democrats, making this group of voters the ideological heirs to FDR's New Deal coalition and the "Vital Center" ideology of the 1950s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_Democrats#1946-1964:_The_Vital_Center_and_the_End_of_Ideology

[nickshepDEM]

15. Sure, there are plenty of conservative Democrats.

Just look at states like Oklahoma where registered Democrats still outnumber Republicans. But you won't see a Democrat winning Oklahoma in a Presidential election anytime soon.

[NeoTraitors]

18. The only conservatives left in this country are

libertarians like Ron Paul. People who call themselves 'conservatives' are for the expansion of the fed gov't, against states rights, and against fiscal responsibility. Thus they aren't conservative.

A libertarian like Ron Paul stands for what the 'conservatives' used to blather about throughout the 80's and 90's.

Personally, I would like to hear our side rip into the Neo-cons like Ron Paul does. Conyers is the only one who is even close.

How many dems are 'Neo-con dems?'

[niceypoo]

19. Yes, my mother is one

and she absolutely loathes Bush. She goes to church every week, as she has done for decades. Not all democrats are DUers or "liberal".

[Vickers]

22. Are there conservatives registered as Democrats? Oh you betcha.

In fact, I'd say there are a whole SHITLOAD of 'em.

[wyldwolf]

23. Are you implying that Democrats can't be conservative?

[Vickers]

24. That I am.

Particularly the bastardized form that conservatism has taken in the last, oh, 30 years or so.

If you vote Republican for most of what you vote on, especially for national office, you are a Republican.

Go down to the voting office, change your party affiliation, and get get on with your (now honest) life.

There are some issues that I am conservative about, but on the whole I am a liberal. I call myself a liberal, and I vote for liberals. I do not register as a Republican and then vote for Democrats and call myself a conservative.

[KingFlorez]

26. Most these people don't vote straight Republican

Some of these people vote for Democrats for Congress and State Legislature and maybe Republican for other offices. It all depends on who they think represents them best.

[Vickers]

30. That's why I said "If you vote Republican for most of what you vote on"

I realize that some folks will vote for the odd Republican here and there (I have). I still don't consider myself a Republican, or a Conservative, even though I (for instance) own guns, etc.

[wyldwolf]

27. well, you just set up your own qualifiers for the word

However, 15% of the voting public consider themselves conservative Democrats and are direct political descendants from New Deal Democrats.

[Vickers]

29. I don't care what they call themselves.

Look at the description you provided above...if you voted for Bush, particularly in the last election, you are not a Democrat or a liberal or a progressive, you are Republican.

Actions speak louder than words.

[wyldwolf]

31. what definition did I provide above?

Your reply seems to be predicated on that.

[Vickers]

32. "According to the Pew Research Center study, Conservative Democrats are...

"...are 15% of registered voters in the U.S., voted for Kerry over Bush by a 65%-14% margin in 2004"

[wyldwolf]

33. that wasn't a definition

The very small portion of what I posted that you quoted is a statement of fact but not a definition of what a conservative Democrat is.

But let's run with what you're saying:

Look at the description you provided above...if you voted for Bush, particularly in the last election, you are not a Democrat or a liberal or a progressive, you are Republican.

Does that also mean that if you DIDN'T vote for Kerry (or Al Gore) then you're not a liberal or progressive?

[Vickers]

35. Fair enough. However, I feel that in the context of your post

it was used as a definition, and the percentages of folks who voted for Bush (over Kerry) was somehow "proof" that there is such an animal as a conservative democrat. I happen to disagree.

"Does that also mean that if you DIDN'T vote for Kerry (or Al Gore) then you're not a liberal or progressive?"

No.

[wyldwolf]

36. well, I think it does

If we are to believe that if you voted FOR Bush, you can't in anyway be a Democrat - liberal - progressive - whatever, then it stands to reason that if you voted AGAINST the Democrat, then you can't be a Democrat regardless of who you voted for.

[Vickers]

38. Please name me *one* instance where you feel that a true Liberal

or Progressive or Democrat would vote for Bush, particularly the 2004 election.

Otherwise you are simply being argumentative.

[wyldwolf]

39. why won't you answer the question?

Doesn't voting FOR Bush and voting AGAINST the Democrat yield the same results?

[Vickers]

40. Thanks for answering my question.

Ta-ta!

[wyldwolf]

41. What question did you ask? And you still won't answer mine

If a lib/progressive/Dem/whatever voted FOR Bush and can't be a Democrat for it, then a lib/progressive/Dem/whatever who voted AGAINST the Democrat can't be a Democrat either because the results are the same.

Ta-ta! But you'll be back.

[Hidden Stillness]

34. "Conservatives"--Sometimes Okay; DLC Never

I think there is a disctinction to be made between good Democrats who occasionally vote conservatively on issues--after all, even the great Sen. Robert Byrd will disappoint you with a really conservative vote, then be great and courageous somewhere else--or who are "middle of the road" more generally, and, on the other hand, DLC shit, which I don't even really consider conservative by any social sense. If a "social conservative" wants to avoid media-defined "cultural" issues, but can be relied upon to help poor and middle class people, then it may be called "conservative" here and there, but still good for the people. John Kerry is almost always great, but voted to give Bush authority to declare war at the beginning of the Iraq oil-grab, which Byrd, inspiring, did not do, where Byrd will be much more conservative than Kerry on something else. You have to decide if they were worth it overall. DLC, on the other hand, is a phony construct, has nothing to do with the Democratic Party, and always, only, supports corporate interests at the expense of citizens. Zell Miller is not a conservative, but a raving lunatic.

[wyldwolf]

37. John Kerry is DLC

[FW_]

43. Bill Nelson

Someone mentioned Bill Nelson before. He's moderate but in no way falls into this category of overly conservative Democrats.

[NeoTraitors]

44. What is conservative about massive deficits, foreign aid,

NEW fed gov't agencies/ massive fed expansion, and fed gov't power over states rights? Sure the fundies are social 'conservatives' but there are very few Goldwater conservatives.

As mentioned earlier, Ron Paul is a conservative. Are there ANY others?

Name one other person who is talking like an actual conservative these days. ie smaller fed govt, states rights, and balanced budgets. THEY DON'T EXIST IN EITEHR PARTY!!!

[wyldwolf]

45. what does this have to do with my post?

[NeoTraitors]

47. My rant on 'conservatives' wasn't in responce to any of your

posts friend. (it wasn't even a reply to your post, I actually ignored your pissfest with the other poster entirely.) I just get tired of everyone calling Neo-cons conservative.

It is akin to those who insist on the term 'Corporate Media' instead of 'Mainstream Media.' Calling Neo-cons conservative gives them WAY too much credit. Neo-cons are traitors. (hence my angry, hastily penned screen name)

[wyldwolf]

48. your post 44 was a direct reply to my post 37

[ConservativeDemocrat]

50. In a word, yes

Although Zell Miller's brand of "conservative democrat" (i.e. the dixiecrat kind), is a vanishing breed. Today nearly all crypto-racists vote Republican.

The most common type of conservative Democrat is pro-military, Blame America Last (as opposed to the BAF attitude you see in most D.U. posts), and churchgoing. They tend to be concerned with issues of social degradation as well. For example, one of these types of conservative democrats might barely be in favor of civil unions, they're not at all in favor of gay marriage.

Then, there's my flavor - the realistic kind who understand that high salaries can only come from high value-added (highly productive) jobs, and that if you try to pass a law that says janitors get the same salaries as doctors, pretty soon you'll have no more doctors. You are free to call us "pro-corporate", just as your mirror image Republican wingers on the other side are free to call us "pro-government" or "socialist" (because we are in favor of leveling the playing field to let poor-but-smart kids study to become doctors). But most of us prefer to think of it more as "pro-common sense".

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[ulysses]

63. ?

and that if you try to pass a law that says janitors get the same salaries as doctors

What evil liberals are trying to do *that*?

[ConservativeDemocrat]

64. Answer to your question...

Most janitors in the U.S. have a pay rate much higher than what third-world physicians are paid. The political drive to transfer first-world pay scales into third world factories (including janitorial salaries) has little to do with actually improving working conditions in developing nations. Most of it is little more than a thinly disguised attempt to preserve American economic dominance by disallowing workers from those countries to compete on price and/or exchange rate.

I do agree that we should stop corporations from shopping the world for lax environmental standards, unfair labor practices (more than 8 hours a day/child labor/making unions illegal), and a zero tax-base, but protectionism isn't the answer either.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

[ulysses]

65. oh! didn't realize we were talking about globalization.

I'm not in favor of protectionism. At the same time, I haven't seen anyone opposed to the current direction of economic globalization (as I am) demand that workers overseas receive the exact same wages as those here. What I have seen is demands for the basic worker and environmental protections we have here and that you mention, as well as a suggestion that, at some point, someone might want to apply some brakes to the race to the bottom before the American middle class is entirely wiped out.

[BornaDem]

51. No. I'm not even sure if there are any on local level left.

[BornaDem]

53. Sorry. Maybe I misunderstood your question...

I thought you were asking if there are any conservative Democrat elected politicians in the mold of the former GA senator left in the party. If you meant just run-of-the-mill registered Democrat voters, there are still plenty who vote Republican and have not bothered to change their registration.

[CityDem]

52. Many DINO's left

But the only conservative I can think of is Nelson from Nebraska. Keep in mind, Nebraska is a very conservative state and someone with the political views of Boxer or Durbin would never be elected in Nebraska. Repubs have similar situation with Chafee in RI.

[wyldwolf]

56. yeah, several times

Twice in 1948 when both the fringe progressives and the Dixiecrat Dems formed their own parties and both got about 2% of the vote.

Again in 2000, when the DINOS that voted for Nader amounted to some small percentage of the 2% he got.

[Zhade]

54. kick

kick

[Hippo_Tron]

55. I think that there are SOME legitimate good conservative Democrats

I think that the test is when sometimes this person genuinely stands up and speaks passionately about something that is a democratic ideal, while at other times he/she votes to the right on certain issues because that's what he/she believes in. A DINO would be someone who never really stands up for democratic ideals and only votes with the party when it is convenient.

I think that Robert Byrd is a genuine good conservative democrat. I don't always agree with him, but when he speaks out on something he does it with passion. Ben Nelson, on the other hand, is pretty much a DINO. He has little passion and it is all about politics.

Also, I think that people who have always considered themselves "conservatives" but think that the GOP has gone over the deep end and don't share their views anymore.

I think that the words liberal and conservative have very little meaning at the end of the day. When I describe myself I break it down into three labels...

Socially libertarian, economically populist, and liberal on foreign policy.

[CAG]

58. Of course there are, & on some issues I tend to be conservative.

It never ceases to amaze me that the ones one out their on one end of the spectrum (either right or left) criticize those who may not be quite as far out as they are as either DINO or RINO.

If the "centrists" get tired/paranoid/frightened of the wingers of their party, its natural that there will be some erosion of the centrists when they go to the polls. I for one do not and have never wandered away to vote for a repuke for more than anything than county clerk or dog catcher, and I don't see any reason I would in the future. Democratic elections, however, have to be won with some amount of debate and dare I say, compromise, between the various factions within a party, so that they become in power and move policies and actions the way they want them to go. I would love the nation to do exactly what I want it to do, to think exactly what I think, to feel exactly how I feel, but in a democracy, that will never happen. Some people need to realize this and quit hoping for the utopia that will never come.